298 replies to this topic

[thecasinoroyale]

Watching it again after a 6hr break, it really comes over to me as something more special than 'Skyfall' - a turning point for Craig's Bond and it looks so focused on being a real espionage thriller, with all those foundations that make Bond what he is that we know and love.

 

The mystery surrounding this is just oozing with Connery's take on SPECTRE and a real international threat. I so can't wait to see how this puzzle comes together.

 

And I STILL love the moment where Waltz looks up and sees Craig, and the look of dread on his face and total realisation is just perfect.

[Marcin]

[...] the Swann character really sounds shrill and hysterical. The antithesis of a 'Bond girl'. I hope that she's better in the film.

 

I wouldn't mind if Swann turned up to be nothing more than an ordinary woman facing an extraordinary situation. I'm a bit tired of "resourceful", "courageous" Bond girls who act suprisingly and unnaturally calm when their life is threatened, people get killed everywhere around etc.

Vesper in CR was great because her reactions were (more or less) natural. In my opinion, of course.

 

As for Andrew Scott's character - let's not forget that about a month ago Rory Kinnear in the Evening Standard interview spoke of "gang of good guys":  Ralph Fiennes, Ben Whishaw, Kinnear himself and Andrew Scott. I'd say that the trailer is deliberately edited to make us believe that Denbigh will turn out to be a villain whilst it's exactly the opposite. A misdirection.

He may be engaged in political struggle with M, he may have a different vision of intelligence services in UK, but it does not necessarily make him a bad guy. 

[Vauxhall]

It's a very quick shot but I still think Denbigh and M fighting over a gun suggests he must be at least a bit villainous.

Unless it's M of course

[Guy Haines]

In reply to Marcin, the only problem I have with Madaleine Swann being an "ordinary woman in an extraordinary situation" is that she appears to have heard of SPECTRE, to judge from the trailer. She's either very well informed about criminal syndicates or SPECTRE is not as in the shadows as it thought.
Then again, think about who her dad is. Maybe he's in trouble with SPECTRE because he's confided a lot to his daughter about Quantum and SPECTRE? Hard to believe, I know - difficult to imagine Mr White coming home from a hard days' criminality only to tell all to Madaleine when she asks "
how was your day, Dad?"
(That said, I imagine Tracy Draco knew her dad was no angel - but did she really know everything?)
Maybe that's why Madaleine is a target for SPECTRE and their human weapon Mr Hinx? White, who has fallen out of favour, knew everything - and might have told his daughter?

[Marcin]

Okay Vauxhall, I haven't noticed that part. No matter how many times you watch it... My bad . 

But it's M who's holding the gun, isn't it (not that it matters, but I wonder the context)?

Edited by Marcin, 23 July 2015 - 08:28 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

Still, after the umpteenth viewing - this is one great trailer, IMO.

[sharpshooter]

Watching it again after a 6hr break, it really comes over to me as something more special than 'Skyfall' - a turning point for Craig's Bond and it looks so focused on being a real espionage thriller, with all those foundations that make Bond what he is that we know and love.

It actually seems like the best of the Craig era in one package, with it's own distinct flair. 

[stamper]

At last, it looks like the best Craig film since Casino Royale. Hated Skyfall it was a slow, boring movie with a vilain that had plans that do not make any logical sense. Here it all looks perfect.

[Marcin]

In reply to Marcin, the only problem I have with Madaleine Swann being an "ordinary woman in an extraordinary situation" is that she appears to have heard of SPECTRE, to judge from the trailer. She's either very well informed about criminal syndicates or SPECTRE is not as in the shadows as it thought.
Then again, think about who her dad is. Maybe he's in trouble with SPECTRE because he's confided a lot to his daughter about Quantum and SPECTRE? Hard to believe, I know - difficult to imagine Mr White coming home from a hard days' criminality only to tell all to Madaleine when she asks "
how was your day, Dad?"
(That said, I imagine Tracy Draco knew her dad was no angel - but did she really know everything?)
Maybe that's why Madaleine is a target for SPECTRE and their human weapon Mr Hinx? White, who has fallen out of favour, knew everything - and might have told his daughter?

 

That's certainly very interesting point. Why does Bond want to save Swann in a first place? Does she know something Mr White doesn't? Is it part of a deal ("save my doughter and I'll tell you everything you want to know")? Did she learn about SPECTRE by accident? Maybe this organization has another, less ominous cover (officially it's some kind of a corporation, foundation etc.)? We know she works in some kind of a clinic - maybe there's some kind of a link? 

So many questions.. I'm truly amazed how much we still don't know about the movie. 

[Le Chiffre]

It's so strange. The more I hear the English trailer, the more I'm convinced it's Andrew Scott speaking in the middle. The sing-song tone is precisely the same as his delivery in other roles, most notably in Sherlock.
I don't doubt it's Oberhauser in other languages my ear isn't native to though.
Bizarre.

You know, to me it seems that Waltz is speaking at the beginning and end but the voice sounds slightly different in the middle part. Wouldn't surprise me if it's a slight of hand to disguise the real storyline.
 
I hate it when TV ads for the next episode of a series twists things around to make it look/sound like it's one thing but when you watch the episode it's plays out in completely different context.
 
Almost betting this is what's happening here. To me the middle part is not spoken by Waltz.
 
But what do I know, Elvis speaks to me all the time!

As a big Sherlock fan, and after having watched the trailer a dozen times, I am a 1000% certain the middle part is spoken by Andrew Scott. Are dubbed versions in other languages spoken by the same person, and the German version by Christoph Waltz? Possible. But in the English version, it's Moriarty speaking.

I'm beginning to wonder if the filmmakers are leaving us fans a clue here. A very big one, that is. It would be thrilling to see CW as Blofeld, but even more thrilling to have SP outfitted with an additional layer of mystery regarding the true identity of Blofeld. It would be absolutely great to have Andrew Scott playing a part bigger than a relative small mole inside MI6.

I'd love to hear from other Sherlock aficionados in the forum. Back me up here, it's Scott's voice we are hearing here!

[SecretAgentFan]

The voice in that part of the trailer indeed could be Scott´s - but it is very similar to Waltz.

 

The shot of Scott is deliberately one in which he looks very sinister, like Moriarty - a bit too much, for my taste.

 

To actually cast Scott as Blofeld would, IMO, be a huge let down, just because he already is Cumberbatch´s nemesis.  Also, for Blofeld, I think he is too young.  If they really want to reveal Blofeld in this film, it just has to be Waltz since he is old enough to justify that statesman-like feeling this character should invoke.

 

Coming back to the deliberate choice of Scott´s mean glance in the trailer - it must be misdirection, and he should be only involved as one more SPECTRE member working within the government.

[Orion]

I suspect Scott is supposed to be a character that keeps you guessing as to where his loyalties lie through out the film, which is why they're keeping the character very mysterious in the marketing.

 

 

As for the voice, it has a German accent. It's Waltz. People are thinking it's Scott because for that line Waltz does it in a similar sing song voice to the one Scott occasionally affects for Moriarty - and I don't see Mendes EVER giving the note to Scott (bear in mind the two have done theatre work together before) to just be Moriarty with a German accent...

[thecasinoroyale]

Perhaps it sounds so different simply because it's taken from two different parts of the film (different physical surroundings, after a fight/confrontation/fall etc) that make it sound different put together, but is the same person.
 
God I don't know...I love the fact this is such an interesting focal point!

[kneelbeforezod]

You don't hire Christoph Waltz and then give the role of the biggest Bond villain ever to a comparative lightweight like Andrew Scott... with apologies to Sherlock fans. I think the confusion is leading fans to think Eon have some huge switcheroo planned but they don't think like that. The simplest explanation is probably the true one: Waltz is Blofeld, Scott is a secondary baddie trying to bring down MI6 from the inside. 

 

The line is particularly confusing, it does sound like Scott. But if it is him, I think it's highly likely he's saying it to M, not Bond.

 

And if it is Waltz, then it sounds different because it's taken from a completely different part of the film. 

[Shrublands]

I think it sound like Waltz. I really don't get this Andrew Scott saying the middle bit. The recording has a slightly different quality, because of they way the sound is edited, but it's Waltz. 

[chriso]

It's definitely Waltz' voice. He speaks the entire dialogue in the german trailer; they just mixed up parts of the film especially for the trailer.

[DamnCoffee]

I'm actually convinced that it's Andrew Scott now. It may be Waltz in the dubbed trailers, but he could've just taken that line anyway since they're making it out to be him thinking no one will pick up on it. 

[Shrublands]

But it sounds exactly like Waltz. I really don't get this.

[1q2w3e4r]

The trailer looks great I think, the Dawn of the Dead scenes look fantastic and the movie looks to have a large scope to it.  

 

I know this is the spoiler section but I've capped by reply below I think its a pretty good analogy of what's going on in the film below.

 

The more I've thought about it, influenced a bit I dare say by the trailer's none to subtle musical influence, the more Spectre might be harking back to, or maybe re-working OHMSS. Consider;

 

1) Bond has a run in with M and it appears has quit or been sacked (OHMSS - Bond resigns after a run in with M)

Spoiler

 007s run in with M is to do with the aftermath of the PTS and why he was in Mexico city.

 

 

2) Moneypenny helping out? (OHMSS - Moneypenny "cancels" Bond's resignation)

 

​

Spoiler

 Moneypenny help's out after Bond tells her what "his secret is" that he can't trust anybody with (as referred to in the teaser trailer) 

 

 

3) The leading lady is the daughter of an outlaw (for Draco read White - but unlike Draco, Bond and White have history)

 

​

Spoiler

 Correct and thus Snow has a connection with Quantum/SPECTRE 

 

 

4) The alpine scenes, though in fairness other Bond films have of course used snow and mountains as backdrops.

 

I think these scenes/sequences look great, good to get 007 back in the snow and also for a considerable chunk of time looking at the trailer!

 

5) Oberhauser's dress sense - not unlike that of Telly Savalas' Blofeld.

 

6) The "family background" issue. In OHMSS it was important to Blofeld - here it seems to have something to do with Bond and/or Oberhauser. I'm harking back to the teaser trailer in March here and Bond's "secret". Unless, and here I'm speculating, Oberhauser is the outwardly respectable front for a more sinister villain - just as De Bleachamp was in OHMSS.

 

Spoiler

 Oberhauser is Oberhauser but also ESB, I'm unsure of how well this is going to be handled on screen but will have to wait until October/November to find out   

 

 

I guess the only scene which reminds me of another movie involving SPECTRE is the large meeting hall, a kind of much grander version of the boardroom scene in TB - save that it wasn't disrupted by 007 and we never saw Blofeld's face of course.

 

I got the same vibe, looks awesome particularly with Bond infiltrating the meeting and getting spotted by Waltz.

 

"The cause of Bond's pain" - the trailer suggests there's a link between what has happened to Craig's Bond in the previous films. The loss of Vesper? The deaths of Mathis and Fields?  The mass murder in the MI6 HQ and the death of M? It's been suggested here that Oberhauser set up SPECTRE to get at Bond. I don't think so - I think Christoph Waltz's character is suggesting that Bond has been fighting SPECTRE all along and didn't know it, with all the personal loss Bond suffered as a result. But, if there is a link between Bond and Oberhauser that goes back decades - maybe the latter murdered Bond's parents? As the late Alec Trevelyan remarked; "one of life's little ironies".

 

Spoiler

 The first bit is how its strung together as I understand it, everything is connected and SPECTRE is a massive worldwide player operating in the shadows (much like Quantum) 

 

 

And, as Heaven knows we've been wondering from the outset - is Oberhauser a new rebooted Blofeld, or does the new SPECTRE not involve Blofeld at all? As Sam Mendes promised there's a bit of teasing and mischief going on here - indeed the whole nod in this trailer towards OHMSS might also be a bit of misdirection. As ever, we shall see on, now 26th October in UK.

 

 

 

 

[FlemingBond]

i wonder about the circumstance's of what looks like a big meeting of SPECTRE . Awful lot of people gethered in one place for a secret organization. How many were in the scene in Thunderball? around 10?

[Marcin]

I can't remember how many of them were in the movie, but there were twenty one members of SPECTRE in Fleming's novel.

[SecretAgentFan]

Also, there were lots of opera fans in QOS who did not like "Tosca" at all...

[FlemingBond]

oh i know there were quite a few more members of SPECTRE i just meant all gathered in one place , particular with the leader of the organization.

[PPK_19]

Definitely Andrew Scott's voice, I've decided.

I've seen him in Sherlock loads of times and those who have, will agree with me. He frequently changes the pitch and tone of his voice when shrieking away as Moriaty.

[Orion]

Definitely Andrew Scott's voice, I've decided.

I've seen him in Sherlock loads of times and those who have, will agree with me. He frequently changes the pitch and tone of his voice when shrieking away as Moriaty.

My issue is, its the changing pitch that makes it sound like Scott, but its with a german accent and I don't see Mendes saying for Scott to just be Moriarty, but german.

[Trevelyan 006]

the espionage looks really cranked up; very 'From Russia With Love'-esque for some reason; beautiful locations and lots of shadows and secrets.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that. Very classic Bond.

[Trevelyan 006]

And, it's surely Waltz all the way through, gents. 

 

His delivery is unmistakable. 

Edited by Trevelyan 006, 23 July 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[Silva25]

Yeah, it definitely sounded like Waltz to me as well.  The guy does have quite a "recognizable" voice.

[Le Chiffre]

Definitely Andrew Scott's voice, I've decided.
I've seen him in Sherlock loads of times and those who have, will agree with me. He frequently changes the pitch and tone of his voice when shrieking away as Moriaty.

My issue is, its the changing pitch that makes it sound like Scott, but its with a german accent and I don't see Mendes saying for Scott to just be Moriarty, but german.

I'm sorry, but where do you spot this German accent in the middle paet of the quote? As a continental European, I know my German quite well but this doesn't sound particurlarly German to me. And again, if you have watched Sherlock, you know AS when you hear him.

Besides, CW dubbing the whole line in the German trailer is not the point, nor proof that in the English trailer it is CW as well.

To my opinion, it's definitely AS we're hearing in the middle part, with two possible explanations:

1. Mundane: they needed to fill a 'gap' in CW's quote for spoiler or timing reasons and decided this AS quote was fitting (you don't SEE CW during the AS part, which makes it slightly less messy). Also, this explains why CW is dubbing the whole quote in the German trailer.

2. Less mundane, and I admit less probable, but nevertheless very exciting if true: it's a clue. Mendes said earlier this is supposed to be a mysterious film and fans have to pay attention. Especially the quote itsef points to this: while we have been focusing on CW as the main villain, it has been AS who we came across so many times, yet we never really saw him.

I find this scenario not necessarily very probable, but nevertheless not impossible. Indeed, CW is a big, expensive name to add to the bill for multiple films. And I think, if this scenarion proves to be true, he will still be the main villain of SP. And perhaps even a second film. But, as Mendes has pointed out as well, the solution they found for Blofeld is a very out of the box-one. Why not have AS ready as a mysterious figure, operating from the shadows, only revealed as mastermind in the end, or possibly even in the next instalment? Everybody is focusing on Blofeld Pleasance/Savalas style, however bear in mind that in the favourite films of Mendes portray Blofeld literally anonymously, covered, with a mysterious voice and appearance. Wouldn't suit this the Mendes-style far better?

Anyway, to cut a long discussion short: anyone prepared to bet a nice bottle of Dom Perignon on who delivers this critical line in the film?

[Le Chiffre]

And, I forgot to say this: what a brilliant trailer. I am watching it for the umpteeth time now. Bond seems to be truly back. And I feel lucky to be around!