2005 replies to this topic

[Sniperscope]

One thing that's been bugging me:

Spoiler

Does anyone else think Gallifrey, in both the final scene and in the preview of the next episode, looks immensely like the Star Wars prequels? I mean, what happened to the good old opulent city and Capitol? Now the High Council has to meet on Coruscant? Alright, well, maybe that final scene doesn't take place on Gallifrey. But it still bugs me.

And the rest of my complaints shall come along with my likes later this evening.

Spoiler

Yep it bugs me too - but I'm sure that's Gallifrey - or at least a bunker under the Capitol. But what's new? RTD's episodes are anything but original - in fact they are becoming increasingly cynical. Noticed how the structure of this episode is identical to his last two season enders? Doctor wanders into the middle of a situation over which he has little control - except run about and gurn a bit, the Earth gets taken over (again!) by the returning lunatic of the season assisted by an improbable plot device, oops I mean device. Shock horror, Doc stands around in the baddie's lair with lots of eye-popping and shouting hysterically -but he still has very little to do except over-emote at the cgi takeover of good old Mother Earth, cut to cliffhanger...

Edited by Sniperscope, 26 December 2009 - 02:09 PM.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

One thing that's been bugging me:

Spoiler

Does anyone else think Gallifrey, in both the final scene and in the preview of the next episode, looks immensely like the Star Wars prequels? I mean, what happened to the good old opulent city and Capitol? Now the High Council has to meet on Coruscant? Alright, well, maybe that final scene doesn't take place on Gallifrey. But it still bugs me.

And the rest of my complaints shall come along with my likes later this evening.

Spoiler

Yep it bugs me too - but I'm sure that's Gallifrey - or at least a bunker under the Capitol. But what's new? RTD's episodes are anything but original - in fact they are becoming increasingly cynical. Noticed how the structure of this episode is identical to his last two season enders? Doctor wanders into the middle of a situation over which he has little control - except run about and gurn a bit, the Earth gets taken over (again!) by the returning lunatic of the season assisted by an improbable plot device, oops I mean device. Shock horror, Doc stands around in the baddie's lair with lots of eye-popping and shouting hysterically -but he still has very little to do except over-emote at the cgi takeover of good old Mother Earth, cut to cliffhanger...

You hit the nail on the head there Sniperscope.

[Tybre]

In terms of writing, Moffat > RTD. By a very long shot. In terms of show running? Well, we'll see come spring, though what little is out there suggests he's doing a very good job.

[DamnCoffee]

I cooked this up.

Enjoy.

[sharpshooter]

Just saw the episode. Thought it was quite good. Nothing particularly mind-blowing, but enjoyable nonetheless.

[Sniperscope]

The worst thing Dw could do is taking the 007 road and making it an average actioner.

I'm sorry Chimera01 but I think that is exactly what RTD has done with DW in this episode!

[zencat]

Yeah!

Spoiler

Timmy D is a timelord!!!

[Tybre]

Yeah!

Spoiler

Timmy D is a timelord!!!

Spoiler

And Lord President of the Time Lords, no less

[DamnCoffee]

I love this mix!

[Peaceful]

I would stop watching if something was so awefull.

Battlestar Galectica, ST Next Gen, ST Voy, 24 were all stuff I disliked and as such quit watching it. You don't hear me bitch about it.

I wonder how you can claim to be a fan and then moan all the time over a series.

Thank God there are folks like RTD that showed that DW is vastly more entertaining than most of the other Scifi stuff out there. He breathe life into a worthy property, and now we get to find out in 2010 if Moffat is up to the level of RTD. He himself has his nerves about it, and he would know how tough it is to follow anybody who recreated such a succesfull series.

Hear, hear !!!
Well said Chimera !
I raise my glass to you !
Best
Pfod

Yeah!

Spoiler

Timmy D is a timelord!!!

LOL

[Mr. Blofeld]

Review of The End of Time by the A.V. Club: http://www.avclub.co...part-one,36637/

[DamnCoffee]

I think I know how the Doctor dies.

Spoiler

Just been listening to the End Of Time commentary on BBC3, and Julie Gardener mentioned that when she read the script originally, she thought Wilf was actually going to shoot the Doctor. Now, after she said this, she said she can't say anything else, because she's skating on very thin ice.

Now, what if... Wilf accidently shoots the Doctor, or even better, the Doctor shoots himself?

In The Writers Tale, Russell T Davies was talking about Life on Mars, and he said that he's never seen suicide done so marvously, and that he would like to see it again...

Plus, why make the big deal about Wilf not killing anyone?

[David Schofield]

Wilf's the Master...who ran away from the Time War (without killing anyone, perhaps?)... to become Professor Yana, anyone...?

[DamnCoffee]

End of Time: Part 2 - Radio Trailer!

[Tybre]

This was part of a comment over at io9 (in the box below), and I wholeheartedly agree. I loved Wilf for just being Wilf. Still love Wilf, really, and am even fine with the white lady popping up and being all "The Doctor's going to die, but don't tell him" and shiz, but those scenes also help build-up the Doctor's comment in the cafe about him being special, and it makes me groan. For once, can RTD just let X be X and not make X turn into R in the finale? That said, I am still looking forward to Part Two, although upon further reflection of Part One and past experience, I'm pretty much going to be invoking a new mantra throughout the whole episode. And I'm going to admit it now, there's really only four reasons I'm still anxious for part two:

1. In the 40-odd second trailer, there's a moment where a bloody-faced Doctor is down on his hands and knees, with steps behind him, in a room flooded with light, and he is clearly surrounded by Time Lords.
2. TIME LORDS. At first I loved the whole "Doctor last of his race" thing. Then I started getting into the classic series and learned more about the Time Lords and I loved it a little less. Did I still love it as a story element? Oh, you bet, that's a wonderful piece of character there that leaves room for so much more development. But I still was kind of sad there were no more Time Lords in funny hats. And then we got the whole "fire and ice and rage and sex and nougat last Time Lord ever" thing of S3 and S4 and I have since been completely turned off the whole "Last of the Time Lords" concept and just been wanting them to return.
3. Timothy Dalton.
4. John Simm. As long as he doesn't delve back into massive hunger pangs.
And Wilf is a sort-of 4.5.

Not really surprising, though. Excluding rare brilliant episodes like Turn Left and Midnight, I've found RTD's writing to be mediocre at best and all of the finales to be varying degrees of lacklustre WTF-fests. So yeah. Just kind of going to be all grumbly until the new episode, and then totally enamored for about an hour, and then back to being all grumbly, and then I'll be quite giddy indeed as there's the last of the build-up to S5, which is fortunately being headed by one of the better writers of the new series. And really I don't care if Moffat basically repeats himself with episode style across his episodes of the RTD era. It feels fresh and exciting every time. Whereas when RTD repeats himself I usually end up groaning. Basically my patience with RTD died right when we reached the end. Kind of a good place for it to die I guess, although it could probably have stood to hold out until after Part Two.

And now finally the thing I mentioned above,

This episode's absolute worst transgression though, was turning Wilf into yet another Bella/Mary Sue.

RTD has done this every goddamn season so far, and I'm sick to death of it.

I have no problems with companions being brave and making tough decisions, but enough with the "even though you really haven't done anything spectacular, you're really the most important super special wonderfulest person in the entire universe!!"

Rose became a god, Martha rallied the entire planet to turn the Doctor into Tinkerbell, Donna... became a god again. What made Wilf wonderful was that he was just a lovable old codger who really knew what it meant to be human. There's no need to turn him into a fob-watched Time Lord or whatever stupid plot reveal RTD has planned. Just let him be an awesome old man, with nothing up his sleeves but his arms.

[Mr. Blofeld]

God, let's hope, Tybre... but, from what we've seen of Wilf in some alien cockpit-bauble manning a machine gun, it looks like such a fallacy might actually come to pass.

[Tybre]

God, let's hope, Tybre... but, from what we've seen of Wilf in some alien cockpit-bauble manning a machine gun, it looks like such a fallacy might actually come to pass.

Nah, nothing in those trailers bugs me. That's just Wilf kickin' and bein Wilf. But I am afraid something may crop up that's the usual companion-deus-ex-machina. What happened to the days of a companion being just a companion? Every RTD companion is super fantastical. It annoys me. Be normal for once, you co-traveler people you!

[DamnCoffee]

I'm starting to get the feeling that...

Spoiler

Wilf's a Time Lord.

I bloody hope he isn't!

[David Schofield]

I'm starting to get the feeling that...

Spoiler

Wilf's a Time Lord.

I bloody hope he isn't!

Course he is! See my post 1195.

I mean why would Tennant mention to Simm about all the people he's killed... and shortly after Mysery Woman on TV mentions to Wilf he's NEVER killed anybody????

Now we know Wilf's an old soldier, but we never knew he'd not killed anyone. Until now.

And, conversely, we knew the Master had killed lots and lots of people. So why are we so-heavy handedly reminded of it by Ten in the Wastelands????

[Ravenstone]

Now we know Wilf's an old soldier, but we never knew he'd not killed anyone. Until now.

But do we know in which war and on whose side?

Yes, I wish we had a normal common or garden companion for a change. Someone from outside London would be a welcome change as well. Anyone would think all of England is Cardiff masquerading as London. And an alien companion would be nice. And not a Human from the future either.

Mind you, I wish they'd bring back Captain John.

[Tybre]

Now we know Wilf's an old soldier, but we never knew he'd not killed anyone. Until now.

But do we know in which war and on whose side?

Turn Left makes it pretty blatant he served in WWII. And his hat has the Parachute Regiment insignia. Pretty much they just took Cribbins' own time in the military, slapped it on the character, and took it back a few years, since Cribbins' national service began a year after the war ended, assuming he didn't somehow slip by at a younger age (which really isn't all that impossible, my late grandfather did that at 15).

Also, just saw this and found it amusing:

The name Wilfred Mott is also an anagram of "Timelord WTF" or "Timelord FTW".

[David Schofield]

And Wilf and his gang remember police boxes "from the old days." (Not sure of the exact quote)

On earth or Gallifrey, eh?

And Juuuunne was naughty in one in 1962....

[Tybre]

Found three posts regarding Part One. Read the first a little back and reading the second now. So far they're rather well-written looks at the episode, compared to a lot of other reviews I've seen which only seem to skim the surface of the issues people have with it (admittedly, I've been pretty much skirting my issues altogether, but that's because I'm not in the mood to write a lengthy, rant-full post). If nothing else they're good quick reads. Definitely preferring the second to the first. We'll see what the third does for me when I get there.

More interesting shiz:

Before this website becomes a Doctor Who-free zone for the week, because I don’t want to think about what I watched on BBC America last night, I wanted to share an observation and insight I’ve had.
For a very long time, going back to the spring, I’ve thought that Russell T. Davies might not show the regeneration from David Tennant to Matt Smith. The reason was the movie rumors, which were growing in intensity at the time. It seemed to me that Davies might not want to write a definitive ending to the tenth Doctor, because leaving the tenth Doctor’s era open-ended would make it easier to tell a big-budget story. I thought Davies would find closure to the tenth Doctor, but he wouldn’t write in a hard ending.
I suggested this very thing, offered these very reasons at a panel at Shore Leave in July, only to have Kathleen David tell me that I was daft. And her reasoning wasn’t wrong — Davies wouldn’t go all this way, and then pull up short and not show a regeneration. I can’t argue with that.
I do, however, stand by something I said at that panel, that “The End of Time” will not measure up to Children of Earth.
I’d largely dismissed the idea of the non-regeneration ending for Davies’ era. The set photos of Smith wearing a tattered Tennant costume are indicative.
But then Davies says, in the midst of a recent interview, something like this: “Though whether there’s a regeneration on its way, or whether we’ve got some final tricks up our sleeves, you’ll just have to wait and see.”
Well, that’s cagey.
And then, watching “The End of Time I” last night, I noticed something.
Timothy Dalton is narrating the story from some point in the future. He already knows how this story — the Doctor, the billions of Masters, Wilf, all of it — will end.
Dalton’s present is the tenth Doctor’s future. No, I don’t mean this in the sense that Dalton is a future Doctor or even the Valeyard. But the narrative framework for “The End of Time” is such that everything we see has already happened. Notice how Dalton describes the Doctor as the Master’s “Saviour.” The Doctor will save the Master. We don’t know what yet, because we don’t have Dalton’s perspective. These events are already fixed. We aren’t seeing them as they unfold. They’re past. Which means that in the present of the story’s narration, the Doctor might well be Matt Smith, not David Tennant.
Thus, we could have a situation where Dalton, in narrating the story in the second part, takes us to an end of the tenth Doctor’s story, not necessarily regeneration but certainly some kind of closure, and then we’re presented at the end the eleventh Doctor as a kind of fait accompli. We would have a narrative ending for Tennant, one that leaves him available for future films but removes him from the television series, and we would have Smith, with an open beginning, much like William Hartnell in “An Unearthly Child” or Christopher Eccleston in “Rose.”
Ideal? No. Possible? Yes. The episode’s narrative conceit makes it possible. Perhaps, even likely.

[sharpshooter]

The following is Steven Moffat talking about Matt Smith from the latest Radio Times (2-8 January 2010)

Because Matt is the youngest actor to play the Doctor, people might be thinking they’ll get a “young geezer” Doctor, but he isn’t. He’s restored the more professional aspect of the character - he’s very much the “nutty professor” Doctor.

What I least expected from Matt, given the nature of the modern Doctor, is that at times he’s very quiet: the strong, quiet man. I suppose I thought instinctively that he’d be a leaping-about, loud Doctor, as we’ve got used to. Yet some of Matt’s most powerful moments are when he’s very, very quiet… very, very gentle, in a way that a very powerful person can be. There’s a scene I watched just recently in which he was chillingly good: a big confrontation-with-the-alien scene, and instead of playing it - as he could have - in a much more bombastic way, he was very quiet, very matter-of-fact, very simple. It’s all implied strength rather than demonstrated bluster.

Matt carries off the gravitas thing perfectly and has no difficulty at all in lording it over other people. He has scenes with Winston Churchill - in which he behaves like Winston Churchill’s dad! And you have no difficulty in buying that on-screen. And then of course he’ll behave like a complete spoilt child, which is what the Doctor has to do - to suddenly become a huge big kid.

He’s a terribly distinctive actor. And he has the most extraordinary face. He was born to play an alien, because it just doesn’t quite add up. He’ll hate me for saying this, but he looks like caricature of a hand-some man; it’s all just a bit to much: perfect profile, perfect jaw-line, extraordinary. And the camera adores him. So you’ll be seeing a lot of that face, suffering, in close-up, I tell you!

[Tybre]

Because Matt is the youngest actor to play the Doctor, people might be thinking they’ll get a “young geezer” Doctor, but he isn’t. He’s restored the more professional aspect of the character - he’s very much the “nutty professor” Doctor.

What I least expected from Matt, given the nature of the modern Doctor, is that at times he’s very quiet: the strong, quiet man. I suppose I thought instinctively that he’d be a leaping-about, loud Doctor, as we’ve got used to. Yet some of Matt’s most powerful moments are when he’s very, very quiet… very, very gentle, in a way that a very powerful person can be. There’s a scene I watched just recently in which he was chillingly good: a big confrontation-with-the-alien scene, and instead of playing it - as he could have - in a much more bombastic way, he was very quiet, very matter-of-fact, very simple. It’s all implied strength rather than demonstrated bluster.

And that right there is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. P.E.D. gets tedious much more quickly than I.C.D., at least for me. God I can't wait for the new season.

[Mr. Blofeld]

P.E.D. gets tedious much more quickly than I.C.D., at least for me.

P.E.D.? I.C.D.? Wha...?

[Jackanaples]

The following is Steven Moffat talking about Matt Smith from the latest Radio Times (2-8 January 2010)

Because Matt is the youngest actor to play the Doctor, people might be thinking they’ll get a “young geezer” Doctor, but he isn’t. He’s restored the more professional aspect of the character - he’s very much the “nutty professor” Doctor.

What I least expected from Matt, given the nature of the modern Doctor, is that at times he’s very quiet: the strong, quiet man. I suppose I thought instinctively that he’d be a leaping-about, loud Doctor, as we’ve got used to. Yet some of Matt’s most powerful moments are when he’s very, very quiet… very, very gentle, in a way that a very powerful person can be. There’s a scene I watched just recently in which he was chillingly good: a big confrontation-with-the-alien scene, and instead of playing it - as he could have - in a much more bombastic way, he was very quiet, very matter-of-fact, very simple. It’s all implied strength rather than demonstrated bluster.

Matt carries off the gravitas thing perfectly and has no difficulty at all in lording it over other people. He has scenes with Winston Churchill - in which he behaves like Winston Churchill’s dad! And you have no difficulty in buying that on-screen. And then of course he’ll behave like a complete spoilt child, which is what the Doctor has to do - to suddenly become a huge big kid.

He’s a terribly distinctive actor. And he has the most extraordinary face. He was born to play an alien, because it just doesn’t quite add up. He’ll hate me for saying this, but he looks like caricature of a hand-some man; it’s all just a bit to much: perfect profile, perfect jaw-line, extraordinary. And the camera adores him. So you’ll be seeing a lot of that face, suffering, in close-up, I tell you!

That sounds like just the thing. Can't wait for the new season!

[Tybre]

P.E.D. gets tedious much more quickly than I.C.D., at least for me.

P.E.D.? I.C.D.? Wha...?

Perpetually Ecstatic Doctor

And I was half asleep when I wrote that so I have no idea what ICD stands for. Something Clever Doctor I think. Or Intelligent Something Doctor.

[Zorin Industries]

I'm starting to get the feeling that...

Spoiler

Wilf's a Time Lord.

I bloody hope he isn't!

Not quite. I imagine he had the opportunity to murder one... but didn't. I know where my money is...but will keep schtum for now...

And Matt Smith will be a superb DOCTOR. I have it from a very close source that he nailed it on day one and has the cast and crew mesmerised ever since.

[Zorin Industries]

Well that was cack. Unmitigated cack.
Liked the shimmer stuff with the Doctor, but the rest was lame superhero movie-ripoffs, signs, portents and prophecy hokum, self-indulgent "I'm going to die" blither - yep we all are you bloody self-centred git... He is coming, who is He?, He is here blah blah, oooo darkness is coming, backwards talking voiceovers "people of the world did sleep" urk! The Silver Cloak what was the point? Indeed what is the point? - no plot whatsoever.... lots of running, rubbish music zzzzz. Harry Potter, LOTR ripoff dialogue... in fact, a funny thing happened to dialogue on the way to the station, eh?! Meglos anyone?
Did anyone else feel even slightly embarrassed watching this? Come on, admit it?!
But I will admit the two big reveals at the end were very good and Abigail - woah! "Bringer of Joy" indeed! Oh ho ho ho!

Couldn't agree less.

Sometimes I think folk want the earth from their beloved series without none of the understanding as to how they work. END OF TIME 1 was a tight, energetic, pacey, dramatic and resonant episode of Christmas telly. It demonstrated a cinematic gravitas DOCTOR WHO rarely achieves (and I don't mean the cinematography) with an urgency, narrative economy and sensitivity to the new fans, old fans, people who have never seen an episode before and those that will dip in and out. Television drama like that is hard to find these days and should be supported and acknowledged - not dismissed in a barrage of "it's just like POTTER" tripe (which is ridiculous in itself as HARRY POTTER the books and films have not done an original thing in their life).

And to the naysayers who criticise Russell Davies for this and that... you should be a little more grateful for someone who singlehandedly revived British TV sci-fi. His work alone paved the way for solid well made shows like TORCHWOOD, THE SARAH JANE ADVENTURES, BEING HUMAN, THE DAY OF THE TRIFFIDS, MERLIN and SHERLOCK HOLMES. And to moan on about contrived plot twists.... this is sci-fi for God's sake!!! He has brought back 'storytelling' to mainstream television... and it isn't a scary word in this age of lowest common denominator culture. When was the last time the 20 million viewers who bought into the Quicksave television that is THE X FACTOR ever experienced a decent story?!

And how many times has THE MASTER been finally wiped out only to return?! That is the very nature of drama. To create and provide conflict.