2005 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

All of time and space, anywhere and everywhere, every star that ever was.... where do you wanna start?

Edited by DamnCoffee, 25 August 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[col_007]

well the 1st ep of series 3 aired in the uk on saturday and i though it was excellent

and may i point out to you the best doctor who site on the web

http://www.gallifreyone.com/

sorry for the shameless plug i go on there quiet abit and its fantastic

[Professor Dent]

Wow Matt, great list! I found Doctor Who when I was a kid back in the '80's. A friend of mine was really into the show & he got me into it. They used to run every night at 7:00 pm on a local PBS (public broadcasting) station. Tom Baker was the Doctor & they played his episodes non-stop for years. Every once & a while they would dip back into some of the Pertwee episodes but Baker was the main man. I'm guessing they had the Baker episodes licensed for some crazy amount of time. They eventually did get to the Davidson years & then I lost track of the show after that.

I did enjoy the Fox movie in 1996 & thought it held some promise for an ongoing series but it never came to be. I'm glad it's back & think Tennant makes a great Doctor (maybe because he reminds me a lot of Baker). It's nice to see the current series go back & sort of update the older characters. The episode with Sarah Jane & K-9 comes to mind. Bringing her back as her original character was brilliant.

[col_007]

Spoiler

a major villain from the past is rumored to be comin back in the new series

[RazorBlade]

What if Doctor Who were in the Bond universe? Go to "Moneypenny with us all along" in the general bond film discussion area.

[DamnCoffee]

I really like what Tennants done with the role, He is 'The Doctor' i'm not too keen on his new companion though, i prefered Rose, but, like Daniel Craig, i'll give her a chance.

[sharpshooter]

I like Tennant as The Doctor. Hope he stays on longer. Will be intersting to see what happens to The Doctor when he can no longer re-generate..

[marktmurphy]

You can see the first episode of the animated story currently showing on CBBC here:

[DamnCoffee]

Thanks , is that the voice of Tony Head (Little Britains Prime minister)?

[marktmurphy]

Yes indeed- he's the bad guy in a series of 13 of these little animations which build into one complete story.

[commanderblond]

I've loved Doctor Who ever since I can remember. In fact, I got into Dr Who long before I was aware of 007. Both my brother and I watched it week in, week out, all through our childhood. It's also rather ironic that both Dr Who and 007, which were both seen as being rather passe and a bit past it in the late 80's came back after a hiatus and are both bigger and more popular than ever.

[JLaidlaw]

If you want to know the old Doctor Who, here's some advice. There are a few ways you can go about it. I wouldn't recommend the just renting or buying an old DVD, but if you do that, make sure you choose the right serial. Fan favourites can be misleading, I'd say go for something between 1969 and 1984, and try to go with a four parter (Any longer and they are usually drawn out too much), and just because something says 'Cybermen' in the title doesn't mean it'll be good.

Alright, If you do want to introduce yourself to old Doctor Who, I would recommend just going back in time. Start with something like Shada; a webcast from the doctor who website, then try the TV Movie, then try The Five Doctors, which is available on YouTube. If you find yourself starting to like it, then you can pick one of the five doctors from there and learn more about him (Not that there were five doctors in The Five Doctors...).

One thing I should say is that I found that (with the exception of William Hartnell and Jon Pertwee) it was very difficult to get into each different doctor, much like I found Tennant's Doctor a bit annoying at first. It was only through more exposure to each of the doctors that I started to like them more. I used to listen to the radio adventures of each doctor, but Tom Baker didn't do any, so I wandered round for ages under the misconception he was one of my least favourite doctors. Now I've seen them all in action, I find it harder to put them into any order, because I like nine of them so much (Don't ask who number 10 is).

Incidentally, in answer to the comments above, I think the second series showed a huge downturn after the brilliance of the first one, but that it was more to do with the scripts that Tennant's excellent performance. They'll have to try a lot harder this series if they want to keep the huge fanbase they've built up.

[marktmurphy]

If you want to know the old Doctor Who, here's some advice. There are a few ways you can go about it. I wouldn't recommend the just renting or buying an old DVD, but if you do that, make sure you choose the right serial. Fan favourites can be misleading, I'd say go for something between 1969 and 1984, and try to go with a four parter (Any longer and they are usually drawn out too much), and just because something says 'Cybermen' in the title doesn't mean it'll be good.

Alright, If you do want to introduce yourself to old Doctor Who, I would recommend just going back in time. Start with something like Shada; a webcast from the doctor who website, then try the TV Movie, then try The Five Doctors, which is available on YouTube. If you find yourself starting to like it, then you can pick one of the five doctors from there and learn more about him (Not that there were five doctors in The Five Doctors...).

I wouldn't really agree with that- The Five Doctors is quite atypical and a bit of a backslap, so probably not the ideal way to begin. Shada is a bit of a bad idea too- it starts very well but is too long and has a very disappointing ending. I'd say you can't go wrong with any of these tip top classics which are all available on DVD:

The Green Death (this is a six-episoder so is a bit too long, but otherwise it's good fun. Giant maggots!)

The Ark in Space - one of Tom Baker's first and zips along very nicely onboard a space station under attack from huge insects. The DVD even has new CGI effects (although to be honest, they're not really up to the new series' quality)

Genesis of the Daleks - to be honest, not one of my faves, but it's a classic, showing Davros, creator of the Daleks, for the first time. Again; six parts, though.

Pyramids of Mars - this is one of your all-time classics. Egyptian mummies from Mars in an Edwardian manor house? You need more? Tom on the top of his game and the plot is a delight.

The Robots of Death - another of the all-time classics. Perfectly paced with some of the most spooky Who villains ever: a whodunnit (although the clue's in the title!) set aboard a futuristic sand miner in an alien desert... I never get tired of this one. "Please do not throw hands at me"!

The Talons of Weng Chiang - Tom does Holmes as the Doctor visits a fantastically rendered Victorian London- Chinese tongs, sewers, playhouses, serial girl abductions, chinese laundries; all of the Victorian cliches are in abundance. Great stuff. Bit long, again, though.

The Horror of Fang Rock - lots of fans love this one which pits the Doctor against a shape-changing alien in an Edwardian lighthouse. Personally I find it a little dull, but you might enjoy it.

The Pirate Planet - only available in the US, this one. It looks a bit cheap, but it's damned funny and packed full of wonderful ideas that only the great Douglas Adams could have come up with. Damned good fun.

City of Death - all-time best ever Doctor Who if you ask me. Fantastic script by Douglas Adams again, Tom and Lalla Ward just being fantastic together, location filming in Paris, great music, hilarious lines... plus you get a bona fide Bond villain and even Q himself pops up! Perfection.

Earthshock - one of Peter Davison's best adventures. Fairly dark, but the first episode is terrific and the production values are very high. Properly exciting, doom-laden and scary. And that ending... don't let anyone spoil it for you!

The Caves of Androzani - superb one this; neck and neck for best ever. Peter Davison on form amoungst an excellent cast and realy very clever script. The Doctor's up over his head in this one; probably the darkest serial Who's had; excellently directed too. This one's enough to make anyone a Who fan. Don't let anyone spoil the ending to this one, either!


Revelation of the Daleks - not one of the greatest on this list, but probably Colin Baker's best serial. Excellent direction and a nice dark mood carried over from Androzani. Enjoyable.

Rememberance of the Daleks - oddly, for a Doctor who seems to be regarded as the worst, Sylvester McCoy had some excellent stories and I like him. So there. This tale of two sets of Daleks hunting an ancient Time Lord articfact in 1960's London is a real cracker.

Ghost Light - very complicated and very dense, but well made and with a very well-thought out story. A three-parter, probably the ideal format for Dr Who in 25 mins episodes. A shame they found it so late.

The Curse of Fenric - again, Dr Who was being made for the older kids by this point so not everything is clearly laid out, but this story of monsters in a 1940's airbase is an excellent tale with the Doctor in full-on mysterious mood. This one has a movie-length version with new effects and music which is the ideal way to see it.


You shouldn't be disappointed with anything on there: for me I'd say 'City of Death', 'Robots of Death', Caves of Androzani', 'Earthshock' and 'Pyramids of Mars' are the ones you really need to see above all.

[Royal Dalton]

You can't go wrong with The Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, and The Talons of Weng-Chiang.

[JLaidlaw]

The reason I don't rank the Caves of Androzani among the classics is for one reason only. The guy they got to play the bad guy hams it up completely, ruining some very funny lines. This happens a lot in Doctor Who, actors come on and decide to play it as a joke, which doesn't work. I think we've seen it a couple of times in the new series, though I won't say who.

Haven't seen Earthshock yet, but agree with the other three... I do like Shada though, and The Five Doctors is quite fun. I was using those as an example as they are freely available online, whereas the (better) serials you mention are not. I stick to my guns about four-parters though. Genesis of the Daleks and The Invasion are classic, but could be so much better if they were shorter. They even made a record version of Genesis of the Daleks lasting fifty minutes, and it was pretty good. Though saying that, a lot of the William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton episodes are quite good for six, seven or ten parters, because there's something much more relaxed about story telling in Black and White.

Anyhow- Good points, and I shall have to buy some more of those 'classics' I haven't seen.

[marktmurphy]

The reason I don't rank the Caves of Androzani among the classics is for one reason only. The guy they got to play the bad guy hams it up completely, ruining some very funny lines.

I can't think what you mean, to be honest. Do you mean the guy who plays Morgus? His performance is pretty large, yeah, but I think he's great in it- really nasty and hissable. Certainly doesn't destroy any drama for me- adds to it. And Davison's great in it.

I stick to my guns about four-parters though. Genesis of the Daleks and The Invasion are classic, but could be so much better if they were shorter.

Oh yeah- I don't disagree; most six parters are far too long. I don't have the energy to sit through Genesis of the Daleks again, even though I recently bought it on DVD and haven't seen it in ten years or so. Something like the Seeds of Doom is okay, though- basically a two parter which leads into a four parter, complete with change of location and monster.

[commanderblond]

The Caves of Androzani is an absolute classic. Not just of the Doctor Who cannon, but of telefantasy in general. It's really worth digging out and watching. Revelation of the Daleks, also directed by Grahame Harper is another good, solid adventure, with Davros' chracter at his best since Genesis ten years before.

Sadly, there are also a few stories where they got it just plain wrong. For example, Resurrection of the Daleks has about three or four plot threads running through it - The Daleks want Davros back to cure a virus which is setting back their war effort; lure the Doctor into a trap to replace him with a clone who they'll send to assasinate the Time Lords and replace all the important political figures on 20th century Earth with clones to bring the planet under Dalek control. You'd be hard pressed to adequately explain all that in a two and a half hour long movie, let alone a 90 minute tv show. It's just too messy.

Edited by commanderblond, 07 April 2007 - 04:24 PM.

[marktmurphy]

I've loved Doctor Who ever since I can remember. In fact, I got into Dr Who long before I was aware of 007. Both my brother and I watched it week in, week out, all through our childhood. It's also rather ironic that both Dr Who and 007, which were both seen as being rather passe and a bit past it in the late 80's came back after a hiatus and are both bigger and more popular than ever.

Here's something I wrote on these forums a while back with a little update!

Series starts in early sixties. Becomes hugely popular- a 'mania' phrase is coined. Then the (some say irreplacable) lead actor leaves the series and is replaced. Luckily this works very well indeed, and as the series moves into the seventies gadgets and action become more important in the formula. During the seventies, the actor who stays in the role longest takes over and towards the end of his tenure the series lurches into out and out comedy. Not everyone likes this, so when a new actor takes over in the 80's the series attempts to become much more serious. The lead character becomes tough and unlikable at times. Unfortunately the audience dies away and the series comes to end in 1989.
However, in the mid-nineties a glossy new film is made with a higher budget and new actor who many people say is perfect for the part.

But in the early years of the twenty first century the series is revamped with a celebrated award-winning writer at the helm and a new, grittier lead actor with serious acting credentials (best known at this point for starring in the BBC's tough 'Our Friends in the North' drama serial); it's a massive hit in a way it hasn't been for many years and is embraced around the world.



Now- you tell me which series I'm talking about there! Bond or Doctor Who?

[trs007]

I have been a Dr Who fan since 1973, when I caught the last episode of TERROR OF THE AUTONS, not even knowing what it was. I was so "hooked" that I went back, looked up in TV Guide to see what I was watching and then the following week, was properly introduced to the good Doctor with the episode, "THE MIND OF EVIL". Been a fan ever since. I have most of the Target Novels, a few later novels, been to a few conventions back the in 1980's and am enjoying the new series. I haven't seen the new series 3 yet, although my friend with the Torrent Source will be providing that soon.


Reading the above, there was a post about James Bond and Dr Who. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I picked up during one of the 80's cons and is still in my display cabinet. It reads: James Bond is Really a Time Lord" and the graphic is the gunbarrell with a silhouette and a long flowing scarf. Obviously designed during the Tom Baker era.

[commanderblond]

Now- you tell me which series I'm talking about there! Bond or Doctor Who?

Absolutely spot on!

[DamnCoffee]

Just letting you all know that Episode 2 of Series 3 is tobe broadcast tonight, 7:00pm on BBC1(region 2).

Title: The Shakespeare Code
Plot:

Spoiler

The Doctor and Martha travel to Elizabethan England, where the famous playwright William Shakespeare is being controlled by three witches called Carrionites. The Doctor and Martha must stop the evil witches, and Shakespeare must give the performance of his life in order to save history. The story references the "lost" Shakespeare play "Love's Labour's Won".

[Royal Dalton]

Christina Cole's in this one, too.

"Get out, you're Bard!"

[Bill]

Excellent comparisons marktmurphy!

For those of you who want to take a gander at the program, an excellent starting point is the first episode of the 2005 revival of the series, Rose. Then just follow in order until the present. The 2005 and 2006 episodes are available on DVD, the 2007 ones just started airing last week in England, and thanks to the internet, they are available as well (will not go into detail here).

The big budget and superb special effects may spoil some people for the older episodes, as well as some of the best writing ever in decades, but the old ones are worth a newbie's attention as well. Just like each and every Bond film--all have their strengths and weaknesses.

As for the contrasting of Bond with the Doctor, I am still trying to reconcile the previous 20 007 films with CR. On the other hand, the new Doctor Who is radically different from the old show in many respects, from budget to special effects to pace to being more realistic, especially with the relationships. However, it does NOT contradict all that we have seen before--it is a true continuation of the program started in 1963, and while a show that has lasted that long has featured stories that may differ from established facts in a previous show (two different theories on the Loch Ness Monster, for example), the fact is that there is no question that the newest Doctor, David Tennant is the same Doctor as the first Doctor, William Hartnell and has experienced all of the character's adventures that we had previously seen on TV.
Thus, I find myself enjoying the new Doctor Who on a level that I still cannot do with Casino Royale.

[commanderblond]

Thus, I find myself enjoying the new Doctor Who on a level that I still cannot do with Casino Royale.

I can see what you mean there, but to stray off topic for a bit, I really loved Casino Royale. It feels exactly like the kick up the backside the Bond films have needed for a while. Quite how it fits with the rest of the films, I have no idea, but if its a straight reboot, so be it. Most long running stories in popular fiction reboot every now and then - new Doctor Who, while it is a continuation of the old series, is significantly different in many respects, so could be considered a partial reboot. I believe DC have recently rebooted Superman again, and isn't the new Star Trek movie a reboot? Battlestar Galactica has been successfully rebooted as well.

All the studios and publishers involved in these sort of things have to find new audiences, who might well be alienated by 40-odd years of backstory. I don't have a major problem with a franchise rebooting every now and then, as it alows for fresh ideas and new stories without being constained by something someone wrote 30 years beforehand. I'll always have classic Bond and Doctor Who to watch time and again, but more importantly, for me at least, there's brand new ones I've never seen yet that I'll be able watch.

I suppose it's a case of horses for courses. There are always going to some fans (and I'm generalising here) who won't like a particular new version of their particular favourite show, comic book, movie series, etc, because it doesn't fit in with, or differs from the version they grew up watching. But to come Full Circle (see what I did there?) back to Doctor Who, once you start catering solely to the fans, that's when you sart to run into trouble. Which is exactly one of the things that happened with 80's Dr Who (and, indeed, 80's Bond).

Here endeth the lesson.

Edited by commanderblond, 08 April 2007 - 01:29 PM.

[Bill]

commanderblood--

Good points all.

I realize that I may be in the minority here about CR in that I have not embraced it like the second coming of Bond that many here have.

I did like the film. I thought that Craig was excellent and it was quite an enjoyable film. I appreciated the accuracy to the original book, and it did a great job of keeping much of the novel in tact and relevant to 2006.

However, as the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Brosnan films did remarkably well and while DAD may have been a little over the top, there is precedent in the series for following a film like that with a more down to Earth film (OMHSS after YOLT, FYEO after MR, even TLD or LTK afer AVTAK) and the filmmakers could have done it just as easily with CR.

First, they could have done the film with essentlally the same storyline without setting it early in Bond's career, and Brosnan could have had the fifth more serious film that he always wanted. Or they could have done it with some flashback sequences perhaps with Brosnan and a younger Bond (a bit more confusing and maybe too complicated.) Or they could have done it setting it early in Bond's career but without the direct references to 9/11 and without Judi Dench (a Bernard Lee type could have played M) and without Felix (Jeffrey Wright could have played any CIA agent). Hell, he could have still won the DB5 in the Bahamas and even crashed that car--(while they would have lost the opportunity to showcase the new Aston Martin I think it is a fairly safe bet that given the limited run of production on Aston Martin that they sell out of their cars with or without a new endorsement from 007--Bond will always be associated with that car) The rest of the technology could have remained with the proviso that Bond was always a little ahead of its time. Then we could have had the reboot but much more easily fitting into continuity.

Still, none of the above happened. I know that we will always have the old films to watch whenever we want, but the fact is that Bond lasted in its original cinematic form for 40 years--a reboot was never deemed necessary before.

As for the comparisons you made, Superman is by his very nature a science fiction character and he and by extension the entire DC Universe enjoy the possibility of parallel and alternate universes that allow for the rebooting of the key characters. That, plus the sheer number of stories that have been told each and every month since 1938 is so vast to have all of the various literary and cinematic adventures of 007 be dwarfed by comparison. Not sure if the new Star Trek is going to contradict classic Trek and as for Battlestar Galactica, Richard Hatch wrote his continuation novels of the old show even after the new show started airing and there are comic books based on both the new and old series currently being published each month by the same company. Indeed these are all science fiction properties. Bond, while being fantastical and covered in many of the science fiction media magazines is still only grounded as Michael Wilson was fond of saying, takes place only one minute into the future. Not much tine for parallel earths there.

Give me time and I hope to be able to reconcile CR with the rest of the series. Right now I would prefer to sit back and await this Saturday's new Doctor Who.

Bill

[Royal Dalton]

I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere else yet, but former Doctor Who writer (and co-creator of K9) Dave Martin has died, aged 72.

[DamnCoffee]

ooh RIP

[marktmurphy]

I don't think this has been mentioned anywhere else yet, but former Doctor Who writer (and co-creator of K9) Dave Martin has died, aged 72.

Oh really? Where did you hear that?

[JLaidlaw]

I must admit I am surprised to see both the direct comparisons of Bond and Doctor Who, as well as the tongue in cheek theory:

James Bond is Really a Time Lord

I posted very similarly here just a day or two before this thread started, all about how Niven was the first Bond who has since regenerated seven times.

Can I just ask whether anyone enjoyed last week's episode? Two of my friends said independently of each other 'That episode was the worst of all three series'. The thing is I really enjoyed it, and we usually share similar tastes, not to mention that I'm a pretty hard person to please. I missed the first scene, so perhaps something really awful happened in that that I missed, or maybe I was slipped some style of Prozac earlier on in the day. Answers on a postcard anyone?

[commanderblond]

Give me time and I hope to be able to reconcile CR with the rest of the series. Right now I would prefer to sit back and await this Saturday's new Doctor Who.

Bill

Unless of course, the footie overruns.