2519 replies to this topic

[marktmurphy]

I just find the central concept of "doing away with God" via an artifact or something like that hard to swallow. 'Cause if God is God... well, how can he be taken out? Even if you have Nimrod's bow... it just doesn't seem like there's any real credible threat to the world as we know it.

Harder to swallow than using a special Bow to shoot any old dart into the clouds, hitting God, which angers him into starting a war with the Devil, who will pay his minions handsomely for catalyzing the chain reaction to war (which the ‘devil’ must surely know he’s doomed to lose anyway)? If God is God, why would anyone go to war with him at all? It’s a magnificent question which pertains to film people as well as real people, but the fact is, there are people do want to ‘do away’ with God. These cult folks have to be delusional in some sense. God cannot be done away with anymore than he can be goaded into Armageddon by an archery contest. They think the bow, if fired from the Tower, can actually achieve this. And to a point it actually does something. It gets God’s undivided and unhappy attention, like opening the Ark did.

When you extrapolate it like that, it does make it all seem rather cool.

It's extremely cool, although Indy probably wouldn't believe that they could do God any harm as he's seen His power before- he'd need an added reason to try and stop them beyond the destruction of an artefact. Perhaps they need a sacrifice, or intend to send a nuke up with the arrow or something. If we're using the different groups of villains idea (which I agree did work really well in City of the Gods) then different aims could be good: a masonic-style cult who want to use the atefact literally to kill God, perhaps a bunch of US Govt types who want to use the arrow to send some weapon to destroy Russia, some gangsters out to get the bow purely to sell etc. That might dilute the scary factor, though.

The pre-title sequence I envision is Indy traveling through an old Romanian castle high in the mountains for some item or other. I suppose one could also set the sequence in somewhere like Tibet, but MUMMY 3 just did that whole vibe.

Lucas has been trying to get a haunted castle into Indy since Temple of Doom. As a matter of fact it was the first scene in one of the early Last Crusade scripts.

That's where I got the idea for it. Though I wouldn't want the castle to be all-out haunted.

I'd like to see it in a 'Where Eagles Dare'-style: cable cars!

[Harmsway]

One pre-title sequence I thought that might be fun would be a trip around Hollywood; imagine a gangster-owned studio that are about to destroy some relic or other in a period movie they're shooting and Indy tries to rescue it. I suppose the action sequence through various movie sets is a bit old hat (and might be better suited to his old 30's setting) but it could be fun; especially with Indy spotting all the historical inaccuracies as he's chased by mafia gangsters! Perhaps it could all end on one of those water towers they always seem to have, which has got to come down, naturally, as Indy slides/whips his way out of harm's way, into the back of a truck his mate has found.

That's terrific. They should do it.

But then I'd rather like them to pit Indy against, well, The Pit. Have him battle some Satanists as Lucifer himself is woken! Now that'd be a big, terrifying ending, and a nice counterpoint to the 'good' nature of the relics of Raiders.

Sounds a lot like the ending of the infamous INDIANA JONES AND THE SONS OF DARKNESS.

A quick web search tells me that's a hoax Indy 4 script, but what happened with it? The Devil appeared at the end?

The Sons of Darkness were a cult that wished to bring the son of the antichrist into existence, so they built a skeleton out of all famous evil world leader's remains (Hitler, etc.), and then placed the skull of darkness or whatever (it's the skull of the son of the devil) on top of the skeleton. It then started to generate flesh. It was primarily a Noah's Ark story, though - they had to get the skull from the remains of the Ark.

It's extremely cool, although Indy probably wouldn't believe that they could do God any harm as he's seen His power before- he'd need an added reason to try and stop them beyond the destruction of an artefact.

Yes he would... Hmm.

At any rate, the epic, God's wrath finale must include every one of the bad guys suddenly speaking all different kinds of gibberish and being unable to understand a thing the others are saying. It's natural when you're using the Tower of Babel.

If we're using the different groups of villains idea (which I agree did work really well in City of the Gods) then different aims could be good: a masonic-style cult who want to use the atefact literally to kill God, perhaps a bunch of US Govt types who want to use the arrow to send some weapon to destroy Russia, some gangsters out to get the bow purely to sell etc. That might dilute the scary factor, though.

Yeah, that's my one worry... it dilutes the dread of the piece.

I'd like to see it in a 'Where Eagles Dare'-style: cable cars!

That would rock.

[Gobi-1]

I really like the Hollywood idea as well but Lucas has already produced Young Indiana Jones and the Hollywood Follies (which is excellent). I don't know if Spielberg would want to cover the same territory. Although in all honesty there is a great deal of difference between the idea you've describe and the story of the Young Indy episode.

Maybe they could be making a movie about Indiana Jones himself and he's a technical adviser on the film. In a sly wink to the audience they could get Tom Selleck to play the actor portraying Indy in the film.

You could also borrow the plot from King Kong and have Indy lead a film crew to find a mythic/legendary/lost place.

[DamnCoffee]

The cover artwork for the Adventure Collection has been revealed, nothing special.


http://www.dvdactive...stal-skull.html

[sharpshooter]

I suppose I'll get one of these just for completist purposes, but that's about it.

[marktmurphy]

Maybe they could be making a movie about Indiana Jones himself and he's a technical adviser on the film. In a sly wink to the audience they could get Tom Selleck to play the actor portraying Indy in the film.

That is rather cute- I'd like that just for the Selleck gag!

You could also borrow the plot from King Kong and have Indy lead a film crew to find a mythic/legendary/lost place.

That is a nice idea; might be something in that. Indy as a tour guide would make sense- have him winding down a bit.

The cover artwork for the Adventure Collection has been revealed, nothing special.


http://www.dvdactive...stal-skull.html

Rather nice to have all the artwork together, though: Crystal Skull does fit in. I like the reverse of the 2-disc edition too.

[DamnCoffee]

Yes. I actually prefer the 1 Disc Artwork to the 2 Disc though.

[Gobi-1]

You could also borrow the plot from King Kong and have Indy lead a film crew to find a mythic/legendary/lost place.

That is a nice idea; might be something in that. Indy as a tour guide would make sense- have him winding down a bit.

Plus Indy-as-tour-guide would give Lucas and Spielberg a chance to do an homage to The African Queen.

[marktmurphy]

Yes indeed. In fact- he could be a tour guide, but it also might make sense to have him leading a field trip with his students. Could be a good opening sequence with Indy saving various kids (like spinning plates) whilst also stopping some bad guys. (do you think on a college field trip he'd wear his proper Indy gear but with his professor bow tie? )
Might also mean that we don't have to go to the college; they did it nicely in Skull but it was feeling a little too Raiders-retread-ish.

[Gobi-1]

I love the idea of a field trip. Mutt could be one of his students as well. Might be interesting to have a female student kidnapped, as she has some ties to the film's McGuffin, then have Indy and Mutt try to rescue her. Mutt could fall in love with her along the way.

[Mister E]

I love the idea of a field trip. Mutt could be one of his students as well. Might be interesting to have a female student kidnapped, as she has some ties to the film's McGuffin, then have Indy and Mutt try to rescue her. Mutt could fall in love with her along the way.

I really don't want Mutt that prominent in the series. He should stay just how he was in Crystal Skull, present but fairly out of the way. Oh and that's a horrible cover art for that one disc edition. Such an awful poster, looks photoshoped.

Edited by Mister E, 17 August 2008 - 03:08 AM.

[Gobi-1]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

By the way I forgot to post this. My latest Indy fan trailer:

Raiders of the Lost Ark

[Harmsway]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

I wouldn't. I'd hope Mutt was referenced, but out of the picture. He's contributed about all he's got to give to this franchise, and he wouldn't really fit with the grittier/darker direction I'd like a sequel to take.

[DamnCoffee]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

By the way I forgot to post this. My latest Indy fan trailer:

Raiders of the Lost Ark

I saw this the other day, very nice indeed.

[marktmurphy]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

I wouldn't. I'd hope Mutt was referenced, but out of the picture. He's contributed about all he's got to give to this franchise, and he wouldn't really fit with the grittier/darker direction I'd like a sequel to take.

I wouldn't mind him tagging along, as long as it's only for the latter half of the film or so. Let him bring a girlfriend and that's the romantic lead sorted (certainly you've got to get rid of Marion! And obviously Mutt's girlfriend would have a crush on Indy himself!). Mutt could even have changed- perhaps become a GI or something in an Elvis-in-Germany style way.

On a side note, my friend and I were trying to work out which film the pic of Indy on the front of the Making Of the films book comes from. Pretty sure it's not Raiders, but he thought Temple and I thought Crusade: any ideas?

[DamnCoffee]

I found the alternate ending for KOTCS!

[sharpshooter]

Much better than the original ending.

[Harmsway]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

I wouldn't. I'd hope Mutt was referenced, but out of the picture. He's contributed about all he's got to give to this franchise, and he wouldn't really fit with the grittier/darker direction I'd like a sequel to take.

I wouldn't mind him tagging along, as long as it's only for the latter half of the film or so. Let him bring a girlfriend and that's the romantic lead sorted (certainly you've got to get rid of Marion! And obviously Mutt's girlfriend would have a crush on Indy himself!). Mutt could even have changed- perhaps become a GI or something in an Elvis-in-Germany style way.

Far too predictable, I feel. And I desperately want to get these films away from the "Indy & Friends"/"Buddy Flick" sort of feel they've had over their past three installments.

[Mister E]

Mutt was a big part of Crystal Skull. I would hope his role in a 5th film would be as significant.

Only as an excuse for Marion to tag along and for Jones to set on his quest. His role was pretty much "generic young punk". He neither hurt nor helped the film's quality.

Edited by Mister E, 17 August 2008 - 07:42 PM.

[Mister E]

Far too predictable, I feel. And I desperately want to get these films away from the "Indy & Friends"/"Buddy Flick" sort of feel they've had over their past three installments.

I agree.

[marktmurphy]

Far too predictable, I feel. And I desperately want to get these films away from the "Indy & Friends"/"Buddy Flick" sort of feel they've had over their past three installments.

I agree.

It got too much by the end of Skull with the whole Indy gang, but in the other films it doesn't seem too far removed from what Raiders set up to me. He should be on his own for a good part of the film, but I'm not really sure why having chums along in part wouldn't work.
It would be essential that Marion isn't one of them, though!

[Harmsway]

It got too much by the end of Skull with the whole Indy gang, but in the other films it doesn't seem too far removed from what Raiders set up to me.

RAIDERS made it really clear that Indy was an independent chap. There was Marion and Sallah, but Sallah was really on the sidelines and a minor, but fun, addition, and Marion was in it a lot but not necessarily by Indy's side. That's how sidekicks should be handled in INDY V.

But I'm really just not interested in Mutt because, well, I don't think he's that interesting, and I don't really have any interest in seeing another Indy film with a father/son relationship as a big focal point. I'd rather see some new character filling that void - like an old friend of Indy's.

It would be essential that Marion isn't one of them, though!

I'd sooner see Marion again than Mutt.

[freemo]

I wouldn't. I'd hope Mutt was referenced, but out of the picture. He's contributed about all he's got to give to this franchise, and he wouldn't really fit with the grittier/darker direction I'd like a sequel to take.

Better yet, why not set Indy V a couple of years before CRYSTAL SKULL, like say 1955? That way, you wouldn't have to mention him at all.

[marktmurphy]

But I'm really just not interested in Mutt because, well, I don't think he's that interesting, and I don't really have any interest in seeing another Indy film with a father/son relationship as a big focal point. I'd rather see some new character filling that void - like an old friend of Indy's.

Oddly his lack of interesting qualities is why I wouldn't mind if they did bring him back- they didn't actually do that much with him. I was really opposed when there were all of those rumours about Connery coming back for Indy 4 because they really had done that storyline: with Mutt, although he was far from bad, he didn't really do much, so I wouldn't mind if they had another bite of the cherry. Certainly I think it might be tricky to explain why he doesn't appear- a cameo would be worse than him not turning up at all.
Equally I wouldn't be too fussed if he didn't turn up either! Perhaps best to set the whole thing out of the US in a Temple sort-of-way so there's no chance for Indy to pick the family up.

It would be essential that Marion isn't one of them, though!

I'd sooner see Marion again than Mutt.

The character of Marion is more interesting, but Karen Allen seems to have lost it somewhat, so I'd be less keen to watch her grinning like a loon and going through the hands-on-hips motions again. Might be fun to have another old flame of Indy's turn up (who we haven't seen before) but have him actively avoiding her attentions because of his new married status.

[Judo chop]

My opinion is: dump the old buddies and stay as far away from family as possible from now until the end of time.

Start anew.

Come up with some new ‘friends’ that really feel more like accomplices. That’s how I feel Indy would go about it anyway. All of his friends probably start out as colleagues or competitors and become friends through the course of necessity in Indy’s research and adventures. His friends should be excavators, dialect experts, historians, sleazy importers/exporters, etc…

Family and love interest characters sap an important part of who Indy is. In effect I think they portray him as more domesticated man than archeologist/adventurer. I don’t like that.

[Harmsway]

Family and love interest characters sap an important part of who Indy is. In effect I think they portray him as more domesticated man than archeologist/adventurer. I don’t like that.

But to be fair, KINGDOM was dealing with a 58-year-old, and INDY V will likely be dealing with a 60-year-old Jones. Naturally he's going to be more domesticated than he was in his crackling 30-something days.

Now, I do want Jones to be the star of the show, and really be on his own more than he was in TEMPLE, CRUSADE, or KINGDOM, but I also have to concede that we can't really get the character all the way back to where he was in RAIDERS. Partially because of how the series has progressed, and partially because he's old.

[Judo chop]

Family and love interest characters sap an important part of who Indy is. In effect I think they portray him as more domesticated man than archeologist/adventurer. I don’t like that.

But to be fair, KINGDOM was dealing with a 58-year-old, and INDY V will likely be dealing with a 60-year-old Jones. Naturally he's going to be more domesticated than he was in his crackling 30-something days.

Now, I do want Jones to be the star of the show, and really be on his own more than he was in TEMPLE, CRUSADE, or KINGDOM, but I also have to concede that we can't really get the character all the way back to where he was in RAIDERS. Partially because of how the series has progressed, and partially because he's old.

I’m sorry. I guess I forgot we were working with the current template: Harrison Ford and all that. I was drifting off a little bit into a fantasy world where we were building up a new Jones with all new materials and ‘progression of the series’ wasn’t a factor.

So, considering the previous films and that we’re casting Ford… um… yeah, I’d still want to scrap the son and Marion. How can they be included without dragging Indy down into family life? Or, I should say, ‘how can they be included on the adventure…’. I guess I don’t mind if Indy makes a stop for a little domestic bickering, but I hate (as do you) the Jones’ Adventures. Leave the family at home where they belong.

[Harmsway]

Yeah. In my mind, at the start of INDY V, Marion's off on a dig somewhere, and Mutt's off at school.

And Indy? Well, Indy's doing a small summertime gig as a consultant on a Hollywood project, thanks to an old friend inside the industry. While standing by on set on the studio backlot, a mysterious figure (dressed in costume, of course, so that he blends in seamlessly), attempts to get Dr. Jones to come with him forcibly... but Jones gets away, and a breakneck chase across the Hollywood backlot commences. The assassin manages to get away, but not before losing a ceremonial dagger marked with occultic symbols in the shuffle...

And so the adventure begins.

[Gobi-1]

How about Indy and General Ross teaming up? Harrison Ford and Alan Dale kicking and taking names.

[DamnCoffee]

Yeah. In my mind, at the start of INDY V, Marion's off on a dig somewhere, and Mutt's off at school.

And Indy? Well, Indy's doing a small summertime gig as a consultant on a Hollywood project, thanks to an old friend inside the industry. While standing by on set on the studio backlot, a mysterious figure (dressed in costume, of course, so that he blends in seamlessly), attempts to get Dr. Jones to come with him forcibly... but Jones gets away, and a breakneck chase across the Hollywood backlot commences. The assassin manages to get away, but not before losing a ceremonial dagger marked with occultic symbols in the shuffle...

And so the adventure begins.

That actually sounds pretty damn cool!