2519 replies to this topic

[AngryPolarBear]

It does lack some kind of a relic/item. All I can think of at the moment is Thor's Hammer.

[Judo chop]

I like it. More than the Garden, more than the Ark, more than the Staff. Let’s do it. How can I help? Should I take out George?

Convince Spielberg and Lucas to hand over the reins of the franchise to me, wholesale. I'll deliver.

I'd rather lock Lucas up in a cellar, and use that to blackmail Spielberg into handing you the reigns. You do your job, I'll do mine.

Indeed. I don’t feel like they ever even acknowledged the City of Gold angle in KOTCS.

They mention it a few times, but it's really background. The alien thing takes focus. I think it would be more interesting if it were the other way around... I like the alien angle, but I wish they'd played up the quest for El Dorado a bit more, so that the alien thing came as a surprise later in the story, rather than the reason for the quest to begin with.

An infinitely wiser plan.

It does lack some kind of a relic/item. All I can think of at the moment is Thor's Hammer.

Yeah... I love mythology like that, but I'd prefer Indy to keep a link to our own history. The Hammer doesn't exist. Never has. That's slipping too far into 'mere mythology' for my taste.

And I'd really rather not see Indy chasing after the Hammer on the back of an eight-legged horse.

[Harmsway]

I like it. More than the Garden, more than the Ark, more than the Staff. Let’s do it. How can I help? Should I take out George?

Convince Spielberg and Lucas to hand over the reins of the franchise to me, wholesale. I'll deliver.

I'd rather lock Lucas up in a cellar, and use that to blackmail Spielberg into handing you the reigns. You do your job, I'll do mine.

I'm on it.

Yeah... I love mythology like that, but I'd prefer Indy to keep a link to our own history. The Hammer doesn't exist. Never has. That's slipping too far into 'mere mythology' for my taste.

To be fair, many would say the same about the Tower of Babel and the Garden of Eden.

[Judo chop]

Yeah... I love mythology like that, but I'd prefer Indy to keep a link to our own history. The Hammer doesn't exist. Never has. That's slipping too far into 'mere mythology' for my taste.

To be fair, many would say the same about the Tower of Babel and the Garden of Eden.

You're nothing if not fair, Harms. I think the key word here is 'many'.

No one would say Babylon didn't exist.
Many might say the Tower of Babel didn't exist.
ALL would say Thor and his Hammer didn't exist.

Slippage. Stay away from that which all clearly recognize as mythology. Sorry if I offended any Odin worshipers on here.

(I have no defense for the Garden. I've already confessed I believe it to be more a state of being than a place made of flora and fauna.)

[marktmurphy]

I think it's really important that any new Indy film doesn't use the 'relic as a weapon being chased by an army, the leaders of which are destroyed at the end when they underestimate the power of the relic' story- it's happened too many times and there's other things that Indy can do. Temple of Doom showed that you don't have to remake Raiders (I know the Thugee are searching for the stone, but in a way that's not the most important part of the plot). There's got to be other ways the plot can work out, whilst keeping the spooky undercurrent.

Mind you, after saying all that, there was one story I'd always enjoyed from the point of view of being an Indy story which was from an old Dr Who book (!). It was all space-based but concerned an intergalactic criminal who had laid in suspended animation to await the return of a mythical city- one that only appears once a millenia in true Brigadoon style. In the city is the secret of the Highest Science, which is what he's after. Eventually though, at the end it turns out that the whole city is a fake, designed and built by his contemporaries to trap him; the Doctor spots this and lets him have his prize! That was always a nice little spin on the Indy-style story I thought, although a villain arriving from the past has been done in the Mummy films, of course.

I love the Tower of Babel thing, and the bow of Nimrod sounds great too- I love the idea of a war on God being started: nicely Dark Materials-like. But then I'd rather like them to pit Indy against, well, The Pit. Have him battle some Satanists as Lucifer himself is woken! Now that'd be a big, terrifying ending, and a nice counterpoint to the 'good' nature of the relics of Raiders.

[Loomis]

Is it likely that there will be another Indiana Jones film?

[DamnCoffee]

Is it likely that there will be another Indiana Jones film?

Yes. The Idea is definately being kicked around by Lucas. So I guess we have to wait and see.

Put it this way... It's doubtful that there will be a 5th, if it takes another 19 years.

[Harmsway]

Is it likely that there will be another Indiana Jones film?

I say it's unlikely, but still entirely possible. Lucas has been talking quite openly about doing the research for a fifth film, and Spielberg and Ford are both interested in another. We'll see.

[sharpshooter]

Is it likely that there will be another Indiana Jones film?

I say it's unlikely, but still entirely possible. Lucas has been talking quite openly about doing the research for a fifth film, and Spielberg and Ford are both interested in another. We'll see.

Judging from what we received from KOTCS, I'd rather them not.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Details about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull's DVD and Blu-Ray release have been announced:

http://www.theraider...ndy4.php?id=895

Kind of bummed about the lack of deleted scenes. But at least the DVD version got the better packaging.

Yes, just seen this over at DVD active. Very nice artwork indeed. Shame about the movie itself.

Hmm, you seem to be flip flopping about on your position on KotCS unless I'm mistaking you with someone else.

I think it's really important that any new Indy film doesn't use the 'relic as a weapon being chased by an army, the leaders of which are destroyed at the end when they underestimate the power of the relic' story- it's happened too many times and there's other things that Indy can do. Temple of Doom showed that you don't have to remake Raiders (I know the Thugee are searching for the stone, but in a way that's not the most important part of the plot). There's got to be other ways the plot can work out, whilst keeping the spooky undercurrent.

Couldn't agree more. Something fresh, please.

Edited by Mr Teddy Bear, 14 August 2008 - 07:30 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

Details about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull's DVD and Blu-Ray release have been announced:

http://www.theraider...ndy4.php?id=895

Kind of bummed about the lack of deleted scenes. But at least the DVD version got the better packaging.

Yes, just seen this over at DVD active. Very nice artwork indeed. Shame about the movie itself.

Hmm, you seem to be flip flopping about on your position on KotCS unless I'm mistaking you with someone else.

Well, tbh. I've grown to dislike the film. After seeing it a few more times, my opinion has changed. Yes. It's good entertainment, dont get me wrong, infact it's a brilliant pop corn movie. The scene in Area 51 infact the first hour is fantastic. Then it gets too bloody cheesy. I hated the way the aliens were introduced, and Marion. The dialouge was poorly written aswell.

Listen, i've come to the conclusion that everything bad in the movie wreaks of Lucas everything else is signature Speilberg. I think i'll buy the DVD for completist sake, but thats it.

George Lucas raped me in the eyesocket with that movie. After 19 years that's the best they could come up with. He has nearly murdered one of my favorite childhood icons. Now, I'm all for an Indiana Jones 5 but PLEASE make it good.

Really, the only things I enjoyed in KOTCS was the Area 51 scene, Motorbike Chase, Indy talking about his father and Indys Introduction.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Oh god, I've triggered memories of child hood molestations and unmentionable sufferings. What have I done?

[Safari Suit]

Listen, i've come to the conclusion that everything bad in the movie wreaks of Lucas everything else is signature Speilberg.

It is just too simplistic to say everything wrong with the movie is GL's fault. No one is going to deny Speilberg is the more talented individual, but he clearly phoned it in with KOTCS, and that was probably as detrimental to the movie as it's weak script and questionable concepts.

[DamnCoffee]

LMAO....

Schneider: 'Lucas should be beheaded'

Wednesday, August 13 2008, 19:38 BST

By Alex Fletcher, Entertainment Reporter

Rob Schneider has said George Lucas should be "beheaded" for his work on the recent Star Wars films.

The Deuce Bigalow comic claimed that Lucas deserves punishment for the trio of prequels in the sci-fi franchise.

"If there is a cinematic corporal punishment, and God knows people want me to have it, but Lucas himself should get it," he told Movies.ie.

"He should be beheaded for those last three movies. I don't care if I p*** off George Lucas, he probably doesn't know who I am."

Schneider is currently promoting Adam Sandler's new comedy vehicle You Don't Mess With The Zohan.

http://www.digitalsp...e-beheaded.html

[Judo chop]

[Safari Suit]

First Ebert, then Gibson, now Lucas... who next will feel the mighty Rob's wrath?

[Harmsway]

I think it's really important that any new Indy film doesn't use the 'relic as a weapon being chased by an army, the leaders of which are destroyed at the end when they underestimate the power of the relic' story- it's happened too many times and there's other things that Indy can do. Temple of Doom showed that you don't have to remake Raiders (I know the Thugee are searching for the stone, but in a way that's not the most important part of the plot). There's got to be other ways the plot can work out, whilst keeping the spooky undercurrent.

Indeed. INDY V shouldn't be a RAIDERS re-make. It should be undeniably Indiana Jones, but with a different kind of story structure and conflict. I'm really tired of the military villains at this point, and there are ways to toy around with the Indy formula without violating the boundaries of the franchise.

I love the Tower of Babel thing, and the bow of Nimrod sounds great too- I love the idea of a war on God being started: nicely Dark Materials-like.

Yeah... it could be an effort by a cult to begin the final war of the apocalypse. Sounds suitably epic.

But then I'd rather like them to pit Indy against, well, The Pit. Have him battle some Satanists as Lucifer himself is woken! Now that'd be a big, terrifying ending, and a nice counterpoint to the 'good' nature of the relics of Raiders.

Sounds a lot like the ending of the infamous INDIANA JONES AND THE SONS OF DARKNESS.

It is just too simplistic to say everything wrong with the movie is GL's fault. No one is going to deny Speilberg is the more talented individual, but he clearly phoned it in with KOTCS, and that was probably as detrimental to the movie as it's weak script and questionable concepts.

Indeed. The film doesn't really feel like Spielberg directed it... it feels like Brett Ratner directed it, imitating Spielberg.

Part of me almost wonders how the film would have shaped up if Spielberg hadn't tried quite so hard to recapture old Spielberg and had done the film more in the style of his current self. I actually think I might have liked that more.

[Judo chop]

I think it's really important that any new Indy film doesn't use the 'relic as a weapon being chased by an army, the leaders of which are destroyed at the end when they underestimate the power of the relic' story- it's happened too many times and there's other things that Indy can do. Temple of Doom showed that you don't have to remake Raiders (I know the Thugee are searching for the stone, but in a way that's not the most important part of the plot). There's got to be other ways the plot can work out, whilst keeping the spooky undercurrent.

Indeed. INDY V shouldn't be a RAIDERS re-make. It should be undeniably Indiana Jones, but with a different kind of story structure and conflict. I'm really tired of the military villains at this point, and there are ways to toy around with the Indy formula without violating the boundaries of the franchise.

Ideas, Harms/Markt? Who is Indy pitted against if not the military? The next most obvious answer is a cult group, and perhaps following that is a rich white man who is driven by either curiosity, or greed, or power (or all three), but then that just stinks even worse of CRUSADE. If it’s going to stink, I’d rather it stink of Raiders I guess.

So, how to make it not stink? Who, on earth, is Indy pitted against? Who would have the motive, power and finances to put forth such an expedition? Or, as markt seems to have suggested, is the primary antagonist not even human? Is it mostly Indy against ‘dark forces’ trying to keep him from the Tower? Or, probably better yet, forces trying to lure him TO the Tower to start the war against God.

Part of me almost wonders how the film would have shaped up if Spielberg hadn't tried quite so hard to recapture old Spielberg and had done the film more in the style of his current self. I actually think I might have liked that more.

What Spielberg needs is his Apollo Creed. Someone who will take him back to where it all started. Someone who knows his moves like no other. Someone who will teach him how to get back that hunger. That… Eye of the Tiger, man. Something tells me it’s not George Lucas.

[Harmsway]

Ideas, Harms/Markt? Who is Indy pitted against if not the military? The next most obvious answer is a cult group, and perhaps following that is a rich white man who is driven by either curiosity, or greed, or power (or all three), but then that just stinks even worse of CRUSADE. If it’s going to stink, I’d rather it stink of Raiders I guess.

I prefer the idea of the cult group, myself. Sure, it's TEMPLE-esque, but we now have the opportunity to take the whole cult idea and actually do it well. It is a rather good source of villainy. And at least we haven't seen it done again and again and again like the military foes have (RAIDERS, CRUSADE, and KINGDOM... I'm sick of baddies in uniform).

But I'm thinking the cult need not be like the cult in TEMPLE. I'm thinking more of a contemporary occult society, the kind of which you find in the Hammer Horror/Amicus films, mixed in with the Cthulhu cult of H. P. Lovecraft.

Part of me almost wonders how the film would have shaped up if Spielberg hadn't tried quite so hard to recapture old Spielberg and had done the film more in the style of his current self. I actually think I might have liked that more.

What Spielberg needs is his Apollo Creed. Someone who will take him back to where it all started. Someone who knows his moves like no other. Someone who will teach him how to get back that hunger. That… Eye of the Tiger, man. Something tells me it’s not George Lucas.

Well, it's not Lucas - but Lucas isn't really trying to get Spielberg to be old Spielberg, anyway. That was one of their major conflicts in KINGDOM - Lucas wanted a very different style of Indy adventure across the board, and Spielberg was more interested in revisiting the territory of the originals.

[marktmurphy]

Ideas, Harms/Markt? Who is Indy pitted against if not the military? The next most obvious answer is a cult group, and perhaps following that is a rich white man who is driven by either curiosity, or greed, or power (or all three), but then that just stinks even worse of CRUSADE. If it’s going to stink, I’d rather it stink of Raiders I guess.

I prefer the idea of the cult group, myself. Sure, it's TEMPLE-esque, but we now have the opportunity to take the whole cult idea and actually do it well. It is a rather good source of villainy. And at least we haven't seen it done again and again and again like the military foes have (RAIDERS, CRUSADE, and KINGDOM... I'm sick of baddies in uniform).

But I'm thinking the cult need not be like the cult in TEMPLE. I'm thinking more of a contemporary occult society, the kind of which you find in the Hammer Horror/Amicus films, mixed in with the Cthulhu cult of H. P. Lovecraft.

Yeah cults are good. Spies can be in there (I'd like to see the Indy-on-the-run plot properly explored, and I think there's still room to do that- even the police as a threat), and Indy has faced surprisingly few gangsters- a Mafia angle, perhaps?
Of course one aspect of losing a military threat is that they do tend to have lots of exciting vehicles for Indy jump around on, but I'm sure there's ways around that: Temple managed.

[Judo chop]

I prefer the idea of the cult group, myself. Sure, it's TEMPLE-esque, but we now have the opportunity to take the whole cult idea and actually do it well. It is a rather good source of villainy. And at least we haven't seen it done again and again and again like the military foes have (RAIDERS, CRUSADE, and KINGDOM... I'm sick of baddies in uniform).

But I'm thinking the cult need not be like the cult in TEMPLE. I'm thinking more of a contemporary occult society, the kind of which you find in the Hammer Horror/Amicus films, mixed in with the Cthulhu cult of H. P. Lovecraft.

I’m afraid I haven’t been reading up on my cults.

Diving straight off the cliff into the sea of geekdom now, put me together a plot synopsis. Are we talking about a cult that wants to find the Tower and/or Bow of Nimrod with the intention of starting a war with God? And to what end… to begin Armageddon with the hopes that their evil master would reign victorious over God? Or is their’s a vision without ‘Satan’ in the picture at all, and their objective is simply to KILL God, resulting in a ‘perfect world of free from oppressive rule’?

Is there a ‘dark force’ at work as well, tugging and pulling at human decisions (or in more direct manners) to get this war started?

And then would you also include a God-friendly defensive-minded cult, in the manner of the Grail protectors in CRUSADE?

Incidentally, I was thinking about location again, and thought either the Arctic or way, way up past the mountain treeline might be a cool (no pun) stop for Indy. Not sure how or why, but I can see Indy on some icy expedition wrapped up in Nepalese like furs. Perhaps if only as a cool introductory action sequence type of thing like the Idol sequence in RAIDERS.

[Harmsway]

Diving straight off the cliff into the sea of geekdom now, put me together a plot synopsis. Are we talking about a cult that wants to find the Tower and/or Bow of Nimrod with the intention of starting a war with God? And to what end… to begin Armageddon with the hopes that their evil master would reign victorious over God?

That's kind of how I'd go with it.

Or is their’s a vision without ‘Satan’ in the picture at all, and their objective is simply to KILL God, resulting in a ‘perfect world of free from oppressive rule’?

That would be very HIS DARK MATERIALS. I'm not sure I quite like that much.

Is there a ‘dark force’ at work as well, tugging and pulling at human decisions (or in more direct manners) to get this war started?

Satanic forces, I would suspect.

And then would you also include a God-friendly defensive-minded cult, in the manner of the Grail protectors in CRUSADE?

You could, but I'm not particularly interested in that idea. The less people helping Indy throughout, the better.

What I'd be even more interested in is competing groups of bad guys. This might not work specifically for this storyline, but it would be interesting to have a bunch of separate bad guys who are all competing for the same thing, and Indy has to work his way through the tangled conflicts and interests. Darabont tried that in CITY OF THE GODS, and it was a pretty interesting dynamic.

Incidentally, I was thinking about location again, and thought either the Arctic or way, way up past the mountain treeline might be a cool (no pun) stop for Indy. Not sure how or why, but I can see Indy on some icy expedition wrapped up in Nepalese like furs. Perhaps if only as a cool introductory action sequence type of thing like the Idol sequence in RAIDERS.

The pre-title sequence I envision is Indy traveling through an old Romanian castle high in the mountains for some item or other. I suppose one could also set the sequence in somewhere like Tibet, but MUMMY 3 just did that whole vibe.

[Judo chop]

Or is their’s a vision without ‘Satan’ in the picture at all, and their objective is simply to KILL God, resulting in a ‘perfect world of free from oppressive rule’?

That would be very HIS DARK MATERIALS. I'm not sure I quite like that much.

No? I kinda like it. A fresher twist on the God/Devil war thing. I have never really understood the idea of ‘devil’ worshipers anyway. Wanting the evil side to win is clearly not in any man’s best interests, and so followers of that sect just seem either ignorant to their cause or dishonest to their cause, neither being characteristics of a good villain. It seems to me that a cult that simply wants to do away with God in order to free themselves from accountability and judgment and all that is a more powerful, realistic, and sadly relevant angle to take.

Then, with that being the case, including the dark forces could be your 2nd and, in a sense, ‘opposing’ evil party. Say this cult has nothing to do with ‘evil’ but really just wants to kill God. Yeah, that’s kinda the same thing, but it’s not to them. Some of them may not even be 100% that this trick is going to work. But now there are clearly forces at work… things being manipulated in order to aid the mission of the cult. This could cause some of the cult followers to question their goal – “hmm… if we kill God, maybe there’s still something out there, and what we’re left with is not the perfect freedom that we were thinking?”. Interesting dynamic there?

And what if…

now watch this feat of ultimate geekery as I put the exciting conclusion into spoiler tags…

Spoiler

…Indy fails to stop them. They actually FIRE THE WEAPON. The war is started! Of course God isn’t about to be killed, and the ‘war’ ends as quickly as it began. Lots of cult folks are very, very sorry indeed, and Indy walks away wiser* and even more awestruck* than ever before.

* which is what I think they were trying to do with all that dialogue about ‘knowledge’ in KOTCS after the aliens fly away. Trying to make a point about what Indy himself is really about, that being discovery, knowledge, etc…

And now I realize that my spoilerific ending is essentially the same ending as RAIDERS and CRUSADE. But in any story it comes down to only two options; either we see what the artifact does, or we don't. Always more interesting if we do, right?

[Harmsway]

It seems to me that a cult that simply wants to do away with God in order to free themselves from accountability and judgment and all that is a more powerful, realistic, and sadly relevant angle to take.

I just find the central concept of "doing away with God" via an artifact or something like that hard to swallow. 'Cause if God is God... well, how can he be taken out? Even if you have Nimrod's bow... it just doesn't seem like there's any real credible threat to the world as we know it. It also all seems a bit too weighty for a pulp adventure flick.

And then there's Indy's stake in all of this... what would it be?

And now I realize that my spoilerific ending is essentially the same ending as RAIDERS and CRUSADE. But in any story it comes down to only two options; either we see what the artifact does, or we don't. Always more interesting if we do, right?

Well, sure. I do want the supernatural "Oh, crap" moment, filled with dread. Something really shocking. Your finale does have that, to be sure.

[Judo chop]

I just find the central concept of "doing away with God" via an artifact or something like that hard to swallow. 'Cause if God is God... well, how can he be taken out? Even if you have Nimrod's bow... it just doesn't seem like there's any real credible threat to the world as we know it.

Harder to swallow than using a special Bow to shoot any old dart into the clouds, hitting God, which angers him into starting a war with the Devil, who will pay his minions handsomely for catalyzing the chain reaction to war (which the ‘devil’ must surely know he’s doomed to lose anyway)? If God is God, why would anyone go to war with him at all? It’s a magnificent question which pertains to film people as well as real people, but the fact is, there are people do want to ‘do away’ with God. These cult folks have to be delusional in some sense. God cannot be done away with anymore than he can be goaded into Armageddon by an archery contest. They think the bow, if fired from the Tower, can actually achieve this. And to a point it actually does something. It gets God’s undivided and unhappy attention, like opening the Ark did.

I don’t see why this angle is harder to swallow than the previous one. They’re both preposterous in the same ways, but the second one involves a cult group whose motives I think are more believable.

It also all seems a bit too weighty for a pulp adventure flick.

That I will give you. The believeability gives it weight. Perhaps too much.

And then there's Indy's stake in all of this... what would it be?

Indy’s stake is always the same, no? To obtain and preserve these trinkets. By the end of this one he learns a big lesson about the realities of and beyond our own, but the basis of Indiana is always archeology and finding treasures for the museum. Or is that not what you meant?

[Harmsway]

I just find the central concept of "doing away with God" via an artifact or something like that hard to swallow. 'Cause if God is God... well, how can he be taken out? Even if you have Nimrod's bow... it just doesn't seem like there's any real credible threat to the world as we know it.

Harder to swallow than using a special Bow to shoot any old dart into the clouds, hitting God, which angers him into starting a war with the Devil, who will pay his minions handsomely for catalyzing the chain reaction to war (which the ‘devil’ must surely know he’s doomed to lose anyway)? If God is God, why would anyone go to war with him at all? It’s a magnificent question which pertains to film people as well as real people, but the fact is, there are people do want to ‘do away’ with God. These cult folks have to be delusional in some sense. God cannot be done away with anymore than he can be goaded into Armageddon by an archery contest. They think the bow, if fired from the Tower, can actually achieve this. And to a point it actually does something. It gets God’s undivided and unhappy attention, like opening the Ark did.

When you extrapolate it like that, it does make it all seem rather cool.

I don’t see why this angle is harder to swallow than the previous one. They’re both preposterous in the same ways, but the second one involves a cult group whose motives I think are more believable.

Well, I guess it's not any less believable, and it's definitely more interesting. But I'll go back to my, "It seems rather weighty" thing... almost as if we stepped into something really philosophically heavy. Now that, in and of itself, might not be a bad thing as long as the film doesn't get bogged down in it - it could actually be cool to see an Indy film with a bit more to it than just adventuring - but it's worth thinking about.

Indy’s stake is always the same, no? To obtain and preserve these trinkets. By the end of this one he learns a big lesson about the realities of and beyond our own, but the basis of Indiana is always archeology and finding treasures for the museum. Or is that not what you meant?

I guess that's could be all that it's about, but it almost seems that after all this adventuring, Indy needs some greater motivation than just looking for another trinket, something to get him emotionally involed in the whole shenanigan. RAIDERS was just him trying to get the artifact, but after that, the motivations changed. TEMPLE was a quest for an artifact that became a crusade to stop the crimes of the Thuggee, CRUSADE wasn't really a quest for an artifact as much as it was for a person (and even then, there was the "race against evil" thing), and KINGDOM became about stopping the Soviets more than it was about discovering Akator. So I dunno.

[Gobi-1]

The pre-title sequence I envision is Indy traveling through an old Romanian castle high in the mountains for some item or other. I suppose one could also set the sequence in somewhere like Tibet, but MUMMY 3 just did that whole vibe.

Lucas has been trying to get a haunted castle into Indy since Temple of Doom. As a matter of fact it was the first scene in one of the early Last Crusade scripts. An old fashion ghost story might be a way to go with Indy 5. A spiritual quest in every sense of the word. It would reflect Indy's own mortality as he grows older.

[Harmsway]

The pre-title sequence I envision is Indy traveling through an old Romanian castle high in the mountains for some item or other. I suppose one could also set the sequence in somewhere like Tibet, but MUMMY 3 just did that whole vibe.

Lucas has been trying to get a haunted castle into Indy since Temple of Doom. As a matter of fact it was the first scene in one of the early Last Crusade scripts.

That's where I got the idea for it. Though I wouldn't want the castle to be all-out haunted.

An old fashion ghost story might be a way to go with Indy 5. A spiritual quest in every sense of the word. It would reflect Indy's own mortality as he grows older.

I don't know. Seems rather anticlimactic.

[marktmurphy]

I think that this is all a rather lovely idea; the bow of Nimrod has a great quality to it. I agree that the personal journey for Indy is needed too, which is trickier to come up with, and in the end that's more important to the adventure than the supernatural element, as that's basically just the ending. It's all the fighting and adventuring on the way to the ending that's good for Indy.
Of course if it's a cult that wants to kill God a good old Government conspiracy could be good for the bad guys, and a government that's out to discredit a archeologist who happens across a vital clue (whether or not he actually intends to go any further with it: I can imagine an older Indy making a small discovery he's made public with the intention of letting younger others carry it though, but then he's framed for a murder or somesuch to discredit his find which plunges him into the adventure- it also would mean that he can go on the run on his own, which disposes of Marion nicely!). As to what his personal discovery is, I'm not sure.
Hell, have him framed for murder at Mount Rushmore! A reference good for the 50's theme!

Incidentally, I was thinking about location again, and thought either the Arctic or way, way up past the mountain treeline might be a cool (no pun) stop for Indy. Not sure how or why, but I can see Indy on some icy expedition wrapped up in Nepalese like furs. Perhaps if only as a cool introductory action sequence type of thing like the Idol sequence in RAIDERS.

The pre-title sequence I envision is Indy traveling through an old Romanian castle high in the mountains for some item or other. I suppose one could also set the sequence in somewhere like Tibet, but MUMMY 3 just did that whole vibe.

One pre-title sequence I thought that might be fun would be a trip around Hollywood; imagine a gangster-owned studio that are about to destroy some relic or other in a period movie they're shooting and Indy tries to rescue it. I suppose the action sequence through various movie sets is a bit old hat (and might be better suited to his old 30's setting) but it could be fun; especially with Indy spotting all the historical inaccuracies as he's chased by mafia gangsters! Perhaps it could all end on one of those water towers they always seem to have, which has got to come down, naturally, as Indy slides/whips his way out of harm's way, into the back of a truck his mate has found.

[marktmurphy]

But then I'd rather like them to pit Indy against, well, The Pit. Have him battle some Satanists as Lucifer himself is woken! Now that'd be a big, terrifying ending, and a nice counterpoint to the 'good' nature of the relics of Raiders.

Sounds a lot like the ending of the infamous INDIANA JONES AND THE SONS OF DARKNESS.

A quick web search tells me that's a hoax Indy 4 script, but what happened with it? The Devil appeared at the end?