2519 replies to this topic

[Bondian]

I will definitely be purchasing KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL. I had a fun time watching it, and think the hate for it has been blown way out of proportion. The film simply isn't that bad (indeed, it sits comfortably in the quality range of TEMPLE and CRUSADE, which are both pretty sloppy films in their own right).

True. I would purchase the DVD even though I wasn't that happy with the movie. But then again, I seldom am, until I can watch a movie when I'm in the mood for it.

But even if I didn't like it, I'd still pick it up just for completion's sake. Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

ROFL. None of us are perfect are we, mate?

[Safari Suit]

Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

A film vastly more entertaining and interesting than the feeble Skull.

[marktmurphy]

Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

A film vastly more entertaining and interesting than the feeble Skull.

No, not really.

[Loomis]

Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

A film vastly more entertaining and interesting than the feeble Skull.

Agreed. And more sophisticated and stylish, too. I won't be buying CRYSTAL SKULL on DVD.

[marktmurphy]

Any need to tell us that Loomis? You were disappointed with it before you saw it.

[Loomis]

Any need to tell us that Loomis?

No need, no. Just backing up Safari Suit and defending the much-maligned DIE ANOTHER DAY.

You were disappointed with it before you saw it.

Maybe. But I liked it even less after I saw it.

BTW, had it been good, I'd have liked it.

[Harmsway]

Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

A film vastly more entertaining and interesting than the feeble Skull.

Not in my estimation. I can sit through KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL with a relaxed smile on my face. Watching DIE ANOTHER DIE is like asking to develop LeChiffre's derangement of the tear duct.

Seriously, I lack any real reason to see why KINGDOM is so inestimably bad when compared against the likes of TEMPLE and CRUSADE. It's not like had either of those films come out in its place that they would have fared any better (TEMPLE would have have fared worse than KINGDOM, I imagine). One of the disappointed AICN reviews remarked that KINGDOM was the kind of film that would have worked if they'd put it out in '91 or so, and I think that's true (in fact, aside from Kaminski's visual stylings, the whole film has a very early 90's Spielberg feel to it).

At any rate, as the years progress, I'm sure the hate for KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL will blow over and it'll find its seat comfortably next to the others on the shelf.

[Loomis]

Seriously, I lack any real reason to see why KINGDOM is so inestimably bad when compared against the likes of TEMPLE and CRUSADE.

Well, Leonard Maltin would agree with you. He gives KINGDOM ***1/2, but TEMPLE and CRUSADE only get ** and **1/2 respectively.

However, I find TEMPLE much more original and energetic than KINGDOM, with some wonderful sequences (where are the wonderful sequences in KINGDOM?). CRUSADE is a very mediocre film, on the whole, just like KINGDOM, but it does at least have some imaginative moments, e.g. the Hitler gag and the then-mouldbreaking prologue with River Phoenix, and even a miscast, wasted Connery giving a lazy performance is better than nothing. I'm not really sure what KINGDOM attempts that's new or interesting, save for the alien thing, which in any case is somewhat fumbled. And CRUSADE isn't the eyesore that KINGDOM is, with all that hideous CGI, STAR WARS prequels chocolate box sheen and white glare cinematography.

[Harmsway]

CRUSADE is a very mediocre film, on the whole, just like KINGDOM, but it does at least have some imaginative moments, e.g. the Hitler gag and the then-mouldbreaking prologue with River Phoenix, and even a miscast, wasted Connery giving a lazy performance is better than nothing.

Well, I like certain segments of KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL that I do think have some real creativity behind them. For example, the "nuke the fridge" scene, which gets nothing but grief from other quarters, I find to be a rather creative, imaginative bit of silly fun that stands up with some of the best Indy sequences. Or the bit with the ants, which I get a kick out of.

And CRUSADE isn't the eyesore that KINGDOM is, with all that hideous CGI, STAR WARS prequels chocolate box sheen and white glare cinematography.

Perhaps not (though I never did find KINGDOM's visuals particularly offensive, just mediocre). CRUSADE just has the distinction of having the blandest set of visuals in the franchise.

Though I am confused as to how you can love the visuals of DIE ANOTHER DAY and SUPERMAN RETURNS and hate the visuals of KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL... they strike me to be rather similar in that respect. Very similar indeed.

[Judo chop]

Although I agree w/Loomis 100% re: the visuals, the reason I detest KOTCS compared to CRUSADE is its complete lack of imagination in terms of its action and adventuring sequences.

With the exception of the A-bomb drop sequence (the only moment that I can honestly say I liked) SKULLS is nothing but an exercise in regurgitation.

So that this doesn't turn into a CRUSADE crusade, I admit freely that the third film is not perfect. It's a million miles away from RAIDERS, but in terms of its action/adventure moments, it manages to be interesting every now and then, not to mention that it has some genuinely humorous moments.

SKULLS does not. On either count. I won't be buying it. If I'm to give it a 2nd chance, MAYBE it'll be through Netflix, but more likely I'll pick up a viewing at someone else's house at someone else's expense.

[DamnCoffee]

I agree.

You would think they come up with something breathtaking, considering it's been in the making for 19 years!

[Safari Suit]

Heck, I own DIE ANOTHER DAY, don't I?

A film vastly more entertaining and interesting than the feeble Skull.

Not in my estimation. I can sit through KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL with a relaxed smile on my face. Watching DIE ANOTHER DIE is like asking to develop LeChiffre's derangement of the tear duct.

I can watch DAD with a slight smile on my face, disrupted by occasional
cringes. Skull I suppose I could watch if I've run out of temazepam.

Seriously, I lack any real reason to see why KINGDOM is so inestimably bad when compared against the likes of TEMPLE and CRUSADE.

Well Temple has a few absolutely spectacular action sequences, the #1 thing sorely missing from Skull. Crusade, I'll grant you, doesn't really have anything special in that department, but it just about manages to hold the attention, it has a few cute moments and there are moments with a smidgen of tension. Sadly, that's enough to put it in a whole other strata to Skull in my book.

At any rate, as the years progress, I'm sure the hate for KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL will blow over and it'll find its seat comfortably next to the others on the shelf.

I'm sure people said much the same thing about a certain Bond film a few years ago, and so far "the hate" hasn't blown over.

[Harmsway]

With the exception of the A-bomb drop sequence (the only moment that I can honestly say I liked) SKULLS is nothing but an exercise in regurgitation.

Maybe so, but it's well-intentioned, and with the occasional bit along the way that has a sparkle to it.

As I sit through KINGDOM, I find plenty of little moments to enjoy: the "Hound Dog" opening, the Area 51 scene, the Doomtown escape, Indy's conversation with Mutt at the bar and subsequent greaser fight, Indy's torture at the hands of the skull, the ant scene, the saucer take-off, and Indy's wedding. There's also the occasional line of dialogue throughout that makes me chuckle (Harrison's comedic timing is pretty good here).

You would think they come up with something breathtaking, considering it's been in the making for 19 years!

Well, if by "in the making" you mean Spielberg and Lucas debating back and forth as to what INDY IV should look like.

I'll wholly concede that INDY IV is lackluster, lazy, sloppy... but I do think it's rather harmless viewing, with the occasional fun moment thrown in, which is why I don't despise it too much. I do find it more fun to watch than the sure snooze of CRUSADE.

I'm sure people said much the same thing about a certain Bond film a few years ago, and so far "the hate" hasn't blown over.

I'm thinking more 10-15 years down the road. And as far as DIE ANOTHER DAY is concerned, I do think it's a far more offensively awful flick than KINGDOM is. Which is why I think KINGDOM will eventually come up on top.

[Safari Suit]

With the exception of the A-bomb drop sequence (the only moment that I can honestly say I liked) SKULLS is nothing but an exercise in regurgitation.

Maybe so, but it's well-intentioned, and with the occasional bit along the way that has a sparkle to it.

I'm sorry, I feel like a nasty git for saying this, but couldn't almost any film be defended as well intentioned?

[Judo chop]

Maybe so, but it's well-intentioned, and with the occasional bit along the way that has a sparkle to it...

As I sit through KINGDOM, I find plenty of little moments to enjoy: the "Hound Dog" opening, the Area 51 scene, the Doomtown escape, Indy's conversation with Mutt at the bar and subsequent greaser fight, Indy's torture at the hands of the skull, the ant scene, the saucer take-off, and Indy's wedding. There's also the occasional line of dialogue throughout that makes me chuckle (Harrison's comedic timing is pretty good here)...

I'll wholly concede that INDY IV is lackluster, lazy, sloppy... but I do think it's rather harmless viewing, with the occasional fun moment thrown in, which is why I don't despise it too much. I do find it more fun to watch than the sure snooze of CRUSADE.

Basically, I would make the same exact argument as you have, but for the other film.
"Sparkle" and a short list of "little moments" and "the occasional line of dialogue that makes me chuckle" I find in CRUSADE, not in SKULLS. We're seeing the same things and having very different feelings about them.

I can't exactly recall the details of the first few moments you listed, but the final three I remember quite clearly:

the ant scene, the saucer take-off, and Indy's wedding.

All were miserably depressing to my eyes. The ants were ripped off from THE MUMMY (not where Indiana Jones should be shopping for ideas), with the saucer's exit went my respect for the story, and Indy's wedding, which should have left a bittersweet taste, felt horribly distant and flat. It was all a very surreal experience for me. I never felt like I was invited to the party.

[Harmsway]

I can't exactly recall the details of the first few moments you listed, but the final three I remember quite clearly:

the ant scene, the saucer take-off, and Indy's wedding.

All were miserably depressing to my eyes. The ants were ripped off from THE MUMMY (not where Indiana Jones should be shopping for ideas), with the saucer's exit went my respect for the story, and Indy's wedding, which should have left a bittersweet taste, felt horribly distant and flat. It was all a very surreal experience for me. I never felt like I was invited to the party.

Actually, the ants were a reference to the 1954 film, THE NAKED JUNGLE, with Charlton Heston. The story of that film is all about Heston and co. making a stand against legions of army ants. It was actually one of the more clever cinema references KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL made, though I'm sure it was lost on most viewers due to its obscurity.

And as far as the saucer exit was perhaps the one moment of the film that inspired awe for me... just a beautiful moment, especially when the waters cover over the remnants of the city. That's how you use CGI properly. If any moment of the whole alien storyline worked, that was it. Beautiful.

And the wedding was admittedly somewhat clunky, but I was just happy to see it. And Indy taking the hat back from Mutt was a really nice touch for closing the film out.

[Judo chop]

On the visuals/DAD comparison: Harms, I see some reasons for comparing the visuals in SKULLS to DAD, but (going from a fading memory here) I think SKULLS is way more guilty, and quite a bit more often. DAD is visually offensive while they're in Cuba, and definitely feels a little stagey at the ice palace, but otherwise I don't really notice.

Whereas SKULLS, from the get-go (and maybe that's why I remember it being more guilty - because it kicks off with it) sizzles my retinas. I think it's in every outdoor shot that the whole picture radiates, isn't it? I know Loomis has my back on this one.

[Harmsway]

DAD is visually offensive while they're in Cuba, and definitely feels a little stagey at the ice palace, but otherwise I don't really notice.

I think it's awful 100% of the time. Sometimes not in an "in your face" way, but it looks awful from the get-go, with that piss-poor desaturated look, and then we're in pearl-o-vision the minute Bond's in capture on the ship. From there on out, it looks atrocious, and it all climaxes with the airplane finale, which is far more awful-looking than anything in KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL.

[Judo chop]

Yeah, well, RAIDERS is the best one.

(Just feel like being in agreement with you for a spell. )

[Loomis]

I'll wholly concede that INDY IV is lackluster, lazy, sloppy... but I do think it's rather harmless viewing, with the occasional fun moment thrown in, which is why I don't despise it too much. I do find it more fun to watch than the sure snooze of CRUSADE.

And yet I'm staggered that you should give INDY 4 an easy ride yet won't tolerate THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM, which is surely just as harmless a viewing experience if one wishes it to be, as well as an infinitely better-crafted and more sophisticated film.

DAD is visually offensive while they're in Cuba, and definitely feels a little stagey at the ice palace, but otherwise I don't really notice.

I think it's awful 100% of the time. Sometimes not in an "in your face" way, but it looks awful from the get-go, with that piss-poor desaturated look, and then we're in pearl-o-vision the minute Bond's in capture on the ship. From there on out, it looks atrocious, and it all climaxes with the airplane finale, which is far more awful-looking than anything in KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL.

Totally disagree. I think DAD is a visual feast, the best-looking and best-photographed Bond outing since the 1970s.

Whereas SKULLS, from the get-go (and maybe that's why I remember it being more guilty - because it kicks off with it) sizzles my retinas. I think it's in every outdoor shot that the whole picture radiates, isn't it? I know Loomis has my back on this one.

I'm not exaggerating, but my eyes were literally in pain on emerging from the cinema. It's the least user-friendly film I've ever been subjected to.

[Harmsway]

And yet I'm staggered that you should give INDY 4 an easy ride yet won't tolerate THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM, which is surely just as harmless a viewing experience if one wishes it to be, as well as an infinitely better-crafted and more sophisticated film.

I never compared Indy to the Bourne flicks. And yes, BOURNE ULTIMATUM is a better film than KINGDOM, by a pretty solid margin. And I've entirely admitted that KINGDOM is a mediocre, sloppy film - just a mediocre, sloppy film that I enjoy. As an Indy fan, there's enough there I like that I enjoy to watch it (and yes, given a choice between pulling KINGDOM or ULTIMATUM off the shelf, I'd be more likely to reach for the former).

I think DAD is a visual feast, the best-looking and best-photographed Bond outing since the 1970s.

I've never understood why. What about the visuals appeal to you? And specifically, what distinguishes the rather pearly, digitized look of DIE ANOTHER DAY from what we got in KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL?

And, for my money, it's CASINO ROYALE that is the best-looking and best-photographed Bond outing since the 1970s.

[freemo]

INDY 4 vs. DIE ANOTHER DAY?

I think you're all comparing rotten apples and rotten oranges.

Though I hated the desaturation in DAD, I think both films are visually much nicer than their respective immediate predecessors: the ugly TWINE and the flat CRUSADE.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I wouldn't buy Indy 4 unless it was $2.00 or less. The movie totally fumbled™ the alien premise which I was so looking forward to. It had some fine moments such as the A-Bomb, the ants/fight but otherwise a wasted effort. Ford was a pleasant surprise though. He looked the part.

for the movie year 2008(already own Rambo) I'd buy:

Iron Man
The Dark Knight
Don't mess with the Zohan
Tropic Thunder
Quantum of Solace
Public Enemies(hoping Michael Mann's latest is a winner)

[Loomis]

And yet I'm staggered that you should give INDY 4 an easy ride yet won't tolerate THE BOURNE ULTIMATUM, which is surely just as harmless a viewing experience if one wishes it to be, as well as an infinitely better-crafted and more sophisticated film.

I never compared Indy to the Bourne flicks. And yes, BOURNE ULTIMATUM is a better film than KINGDOM, by a pretty solid margin. And I've entirely admitted that KINGDOM is a mediocre, sloppy film - just a mediocre, sloppy film that I enjoy. As an Indy fan, there's enough there I like that I enjoy to watch it (and yes, given a choice between pulling KINGDOM or ULTIMATUM off the shelf, I'd be more likely to reach for the former).

I never said you compared Indy to Bourne, but I'm just surprised that you'd tolerate INDY 4 and not BOURNE 3. But I guess the explanation's in your post - "As an Indy fan....". You give CRYSTAL SKULL a pass because you're a fan. Well, fair enough, I suppose.

I think DAD is a visual feast, the best-looking and best-photographed Bond outing since the 1970s.

I've never understood why. What about the visuals appeal to you? And specifically, what distinguishes the rather pearly, digitized look of DIE ANOTHER DAY from what we got in KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL?

And, for my money, it's CASINO ROYALE that is the best-looking and best-photographed Bond outing since the 1970s.

Agreed. What I meant was that DAD was the best-looking and best-photographed until CR came along. CR wipes the floor with DAD in every department, but that's not to say that DAD's worthelss (as a lot of fans seem to conclude when considering Brosnan's final outing alongside Craig's debut), any more than MOONRAKER is a terrible flick because it isn't FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

DAD isn't a visual feast in the CR/DARK KNIGHT sense, and I doubt that people like Wong Kar Wai and Christopher Doyle saw it and thought "Good grief, we've got to up our game now!", but I love that we get a lot of different styles (desaturated, B&W, bright colours) in the same movie, and David Tattersall's framing of shots is terrific. DAD is photographed like a film, as opposed to other recent Bond outings (notably TWINE) that look lensed for TV. And I don't see any "rather pearly, digitized look" to DAD, and none of the glare, chocolate box-ness or white sheen of KINGDOM/the STAR WARS prequels (and, yes, I know, Tattersall did those prequels as well). I see nothing fake-looking about DAD other than those notorious CGI moments, which in any case I enjoy on the level of unintentional comedy.

[Harmsway]

I never said you compared Indy to Bourne, but I'm just surprised that you'd tolerate INDY 4 and not BOURNE 3. But I guess the explanation's in your post - "As an Indy fan....". You give CRYSTAL SKULL a pass because you're a fan. Well, fair enough, I suppose.

Yes. But there's also the matter of KINGDOM and ULTIMATUM being entirely different cinematic experiences.

DAD isn't a visual feast in the CR/DARK KNIGHT sense, and I doubt that people like Wong Kar Wai and Christopher Doyle saw it and thought "Good grief, we've got to up our game now!", but I love that we get a lot of different styles (desaturated, B&W, bright colours) in the same movie, and David Tattersall's framing of shots is terrific. DAD is photographed like a film, as opposed to other recent Bond outings (notably TWINE) that look lensed for TV. And I don't see any "rather pearly, digitized look" to DAD, and none of the glare, chocolate box-ness or white sheen of KINGDOM/the STAR WARS prequels (and, yes, I know, Tattersall did those prequels as well). I see nothing fake-looking about DAD other than those notorious CGI moments, which in any case I enjoy on the level of unintentional comedy.

Amazing how we can see two entirely different things. I see a lot of the digitized, pearly sheen in DIE ANOTHER DAY (particularly in the Bond/M ship convo, the initial Bond/Jinx convo, the Ice Palace material, and the finale). But I think a lot of things look fake... the sets, namely. Once we step outside of Blades, for example. Even the Eden project, which exists for real, ends up looking artificial.

[marktmurphy]

Here's the tracklisting to the new expanded Indy scores- looks pretty decent; I'm looking forward to this:

ディスク：1
1. In the Jungle
2. The Idol Temple
3. Escape from the Temple
4. Flight from Peru
5. Washington Men/Indy's Home *
6. A Thought for Marion/To Nepal
7. The Medallion
8. Flight to Cairo
9. The Basket Game
10. Bad Dates *
11. The Map Room: Dawn
12. Reunion in the Tent/Searching for the Well
13. The Well of the Souls
14. Indy Rides the Statue *
15. The Fist Fight/The Flying Wing
16. Desert Chase
17. Marion1s Theme/The Crate
18. The German Sub
19. Ride to the Nazi Hideout
20. Indy Follows the Ark
21. The Miracle of the Ark
22. Washington Ending & Raiders March * Previously unreleased on CD

ディスク：2
1. Anything Goes
2. Indy Negotiates *
3. The Nightclub Brawl *
4. Fast Streets of Shanghai
5. Map/Out of Fuel *
6. Slalom on Mt. Humol
7. Short Round1s Theme
8. The Scroll/To Pankot Palace *
9. Nocturnal Activities
10. Bug Tunnel/Death Trap
11. Approaching the Stones *
12. Children in Chains
13. The Temple of Doom
14. Short Round Escapes *
15. Saving Willie *
16. Slave Children's Crusade
17. Short Round Helps *
18. The Mine Car Chase
19. Water! *
20. The Sword Trick *
21. The Broken Bridge/British Relief *
22. End Credits* Previously unreleased

ディスク：3
1. Indy1s Very First Adventure **
2. The Boat Scene *
3. X Marks the Spot
4. Ah, Rats!!!
5. Escape from Venice
6. Journey to Austria *
7. Father and Son Reunited *
8. The Austrian Way *
9. Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra
10. Alarm! *
11. No Ticket
12. Keeping Up With the Joneses
13. Brother of the Cruciform Sword
14. On the Tank *
15. Belly of the Steel Beast
16. The Canyon of the Crescent Moon
17. The Penitent Man Will Pass
18. The Keeper of the Grail
19. Finale & End Credits*Previously unreleased ** Includes previously unreleased material

ディスク：4
1. Raiders March
2. Call of the Crystal
3. The Adventures of Mutt
4. Irina's Theme
5. The Snake Pit
6. The Spell of the Skull
7. The Journey to Akator
8. A Whirl Through Academe
9. "Return"
10. The Jungle Chase
11. Orellana1s Cradle
12. Grave Robbers
13. Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold
14. Secret Doors and Scorpions
15. Oxley1s Dilemma
16. Ants!
17. Temple Ruins and the Secret Revealed
18. The Departure
19. FinaleDisc Five: INTERVIEWS AND MORE MUSIC FROM INDIANA JONES

http://www.amazon.co...p...589&sr=8-11

[DamnCoffee]

Sounds good, shame we havent got an Expanded Kingdom OST, some of the music was great.

[Judo chop]

11. The Map Room: Dawn

To these ears and this brain, the most memorable theme in the series (next to the obvious fanfare of course).

I LOVE RAIDERS!!!

[bond 16.05.72]

Raiders is a masterpiece of of action adventure cinema, KOTCS is excrement and if I don't see it again it won't be too soon, I thought it wasn't quite on par with the SW prequels but you know I think I'd rather watch those again than this abomination.

[DamnCoffee]

Lucas in 'Think Mode' for Indiana Jones 5

Speaking to the Los Angeles Times, Harrison Ford said Friday that momentum is building for a fifth movie in the "Indiana Jones" franchise and that George Lucas is already cooking up a suitable plot.

"It's crazy but great," the 66-year-old Ford said. "George is in think mode right now."

Hitting DVD and Blu-ray Disc on October 14th, Indiana Jones the the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull has made $783.7 million worldwide compared to its budget of $185 million.

"It's automatic, really, we did well with the last one and with that having done well and been a positive experience, it's not surprising that some people want to do it again," Ford said.