370 replies to this topic

[Michigansoftball#1]

Well I for one have NO IDEA how to play poker so i don't buy the whole argument that people will be able to follow poker better than baccarat.

[Slaezenger]

Is Bond playing Poker instead of bacarat more deviant for purists than Bond driving a BMW? Using a Walther P99 that doesn't conceal well? Or Bond smoke-free to conform to American values? Flemming's Bond has been desacrated already and prostituted to corporate america for years...this is sooo not a big deal.

...Fleming's Bond was intact till Cubby's passing, and I am not the only one here who believes the changes you cite represent the continual erosion of the character and the Brosnan era series of films. Those who don't care will lap up any sort of pablum dished to them. Others are savvy enough to send mums, then seek more fertile amusements...

Edited by Slaezenger, 27 September 2005 - 06:22 PM.

[Mister Asterix]

Is Bond playing Poker instead of bacarat more deviant for purists than Bond driving a BMW? Using a Walther P99 that doesn't conceal well? Or Bond smoke-free to conform to American values? Flemming's Bond has been desacrated already and prostituted to corporate america for years...this is sooo not a big deal.

...Fleming's Bond was intact till Cubby's passing, and I am not the only one here who believes the changes you cite represent the continual erosion of the character and the Brosnan era series of films. Those who don't care will lap up any sort of pablum dished to them. Others are savvy enough to send mums, then seek more fertile amusements...

Right. The gorilla suit was pure Fleming.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Is Bond playing Poker instead of bacarat more deviant for purists than Bond driving a BMW? Using a Walther P99 that doesn't conceal well? Or Bond smoke-free to conform to American values? Flemming's Bond has been desacrated already and prostituted to corporate america for years...this is sooo not a big deal.

...Fleming's Bond was intact till Cubby's passing, and I am not the only one here who believes the changes you cite represent the continual erosion of the character and the Brosnan era series of films. Those who don't care will lap up any sort of pablum dished to them. Others are savvy enough to send mums, then seek more fertile amusements...

The way I am looking at this though is that playing poker doesn't necessarily erode the character because it's a mission. Bond isn't challenging Le Chiffre to his ole favorite - Texas Hold Em - he's playing Le Chiffre's game because he is the best GAMBLER in the service. That is what is important. He can be the same baccarat, roulette loving Bond but play a new game.

That said, I agree that Bond has been prostituted off to corporate America. But I don't think this is really one of those instances.

[Slaezenger]

This poker scene, then.... sounds to me like one of the most unusual things we'll ever have seen in a Bond film, however they'll end up doing it. It'll seem particularly (careful, don't want to give out too much credit before it's due) fresh and brave and so on if Brosnan returns, because it'll look like, y'know, so not his era of Bondage.

...This is getting out of hand. Fleming loved poker, wrote a blurb about it in 57, (see my post in this thread bottom of page 7). But poker was illegal in England, so his self-described cardboard booby plays chemin de fer instead. This remains true for any actor who inherits the mantle and plays the part.

[Slaezenger]

Is Bond playing Poker instead of bacarat more deviant for purists than Bond driving a BMW? Using a Walther P99 that doesn't conceal well? Or Bond smoke-free to conform to American values? Flemming's Bond has been desacrated already and prostituted to corporate america for years...this is sooo not a big deal.

...Fleming's Bond was intact till Cubby's passing, and I am not the only one here who believes the changes you cite represent the continual erosion of the character and the Brosnan era series of films. Those who don't care will lap up any sort of pablum dished to them. Others are savvy enough to send mums, then seek more fertile amusements...

Right. The gorilla suit was pure Fleming.

...The context of Tarl's post was the Brosnan era, as was my reply. Put another way so you will get it, the things Tarl described happened in the 90s when BB & MW were mainly at the helm...

[Jim]

Still don't like it.

But I accept it could be worse.
















It could be Su-Doku.


"To save the world for the nth time, James Bond must solve a particularly irksome wordsearch"

[Slaezenger]

Bond isn't challenging Le Chiffre to his ole favorite - Texas Hold Em - he's playing Le Chiffre's game because he is the best GAMBLER in the service.  That is what is important.

...Actually he's playing Le Chiffre to ruin him financially, and motivate SMERSH to get rid of him.

Games do matter. The confrontation woven through a golf match beween Bond and Goldfinger wouldn't have been the same if they went bowling (except, of course, for the undiscerning who just don't care what's going on in a picture.)

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 18:51'][quote name='ComplimentsOfSharky' date='27 September 2005 - 18:24'] Bond isn't challenging Le Chiffre to his ole favorite - Texas Hold Em - he's playing Le Chiffre's game because he is the best GAMBLER in the service.

[Slaezenger]

[quote name='ComplimentsOfSharky' date='27 September 2005 - 18:55']I think you misunderstood me.

Edited by Slaezenger, 27 September 2005 - 07:30 PM.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 19:29'][quote name='ComplimentsOfSharky' date='27 September 2005 - 18:55']I think you misunderstood me.

[Slaezenger]

I am just trying to be optimistic. I think that if the poker scene is done right, it isn't going to hurt anything...and because Bond isn't choosing to play poker for fun or recreation...it isn't hurting the character too much.

...Ok. From my vantage point, when the writer talks about "reinventing" Bond, and they rumor someone like Craig who, imo, despite all the spin, just seems wrong for the part, these things don't lead me to be optomistic.

Edited by Slaezenger, 27 September 2005 - 07:38 PM.

[Mister Asterix]

I think you misunderstood me.  I realize the motivation, I meant that the reason Bond was chosen is because he is the best gambler and most well suited to do exactly that.

...Well that was Fleming's fantasy, after he lost money in front of his boss at the table. But yes, I see your point. My point is best summed up at the end of TSWLM novel, where Bond recommends that Vivienne Michel use Guerlain's Fleurs d'Alpes, instead of Camay, etc. I don't have much interest in seeing a Bond where he chooses Camay, if you follow me.

Ooh! Great analogy! I like that...haha. I understand what you mean exactly...I am just trying to be optimistic. I think that if the poker scene is done right, it isn't going to hurt anything...and because Bond isn't choosing to play poker for fun or recreation...it isn't hurting the character too much.

[mra]Right. It isn

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 19:36']
[quote name='ComplimentsOfSharky' date='27 September 2005 - 19:32']
[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 19:29'][quote=I am just trying to be optimistic. I think that if the poker scene is done right, it isn't going to hurt anything...and because Bond isn't choosing to play poker for fun or recreation...it isn't hurting the character too much.

[/quote]


...I would be too, but when the writer talks about "reinventing" Bond, and they rumor someone like Craig who, imo, despite all the spin, just seems wrong for the part, I see little reason for optimism.

[/quote]

I am crazy, what can I say...and yeah all that worries me too...I am thinking Craig could be a good Le Chiffre...

I'll keep my hopes up for now...if the movie sucks, I'll buy you a drink. How's that?

[Slaezenger]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='27 September 2005 - 19:37'] Right. It isn

Edited by Slaezenger, 27 September 2005 - 07:42 PM.

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 19:40'][quote name='Mister Asterix' date='27 September 2005 - 19:37'] Right. It isn

[Qwerty]

Anyone seen a draft of the script?

That'd certainly be nice...

[trumanlodge89]

maybe le chiffre is played by a texan!!

[The Dove]

LMO!!! That reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw the other day:
" Save the Environment: Plant a Bush back in Texas! "

[Slaezenger]

I am crazy, what can I say...and yeah all that worries me too...I am thinking Craig could be a good Le Chiffre...

I'll keep my hopes up for now...if the movie sucks, I'll buy you a drink.  How's that?

...I am with you on casting him as Le Chiffre. A drink sounds good, but what do you say we both chip in and by Jim one. I think he is going through some real agita in this thread. How bout it Jim? Want a pint on us?

[Slaezenger]

maybe le chiffre is played by a texan!!

...From my vantage point, he's the heroic type and would make a better James Bond than some of the names on the short list!

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

[quote name='Slaezenger' date='27 September 2005 - 23:23'][quote name='ComplimentsOfSharky' date='27 September 2005 - 19:38']I am crazy, what can I say...and yeah all that worries me too...I am thinking Craig could be a good Le Chiffre...

I'll keep my hopes up for now...if the movie sucks, I'll buy you a drink.

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]REMINDER
Do Not Talk About Poker In Other Threads.


Your post will be edited and the references to poker will be removed if you do so.

Yes, this isn

[Slaezenger]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='27 September 2005 - 19:37']Right. It isn

[killkenny kid]

Well, I guess I'm behind the curve on this. The WB11 Morning News just did a story on the popularity of poker in the States. Who knew.

[booyeah_]

Theres nothing I hate more than turning on ESPN to watch real sports and instead watch some fat guy with sunglasses play poker...Now Bond is taking up this Texan game? They should have kept baccarat.

[zencat]

This is a post that was made over at AJB which I thought showed some interesting insight, so I thought I'd lift it and bring it on over here.

erniecureo

Posts: 1
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Hello, all. First post for me here, and I have to start by saying I'm absolutely shocked that no one has mentioned the following:

Ian Fleming mentioned in a Bond book that Bond played poker.

It's true, folks. It was a throwaway line in one of the books (Moonraker, I think), when he describes Bond remembering his last trip to a club, where (forgive the paraphrasing, as I don't have the book in front of me):

"...the last time he was here he'd gotten his fingers badly burned in a poker game."

So not only does Bond play poker, he's not very good at it!

A couple of other notes: Regardless of the name, oker is much more of a Bond-type game than baccarat or Chemin de Fer. As Fleming implied, it's murder across the felt. You can lay traps, misrepresent, deceive...all of the things that go into a good Bond adventure (film or book).

As for you folks out there who think poker (in any form) is "99% luck," well, I hope we play together sometime. I've played most variations of poker for 25 years. It's not just "reading" the other players, it's knowing the likelihood of your card showing up, the likelihood of the cards in the other players' hands, it's knowing what odds the pot is giving you before and after every bet...and a lot more. As I said, if you rely on luck, let's get together and play!

A final note: I'm a Yank, and, believe it or not, I'm from Texas. I have neither a cowboy hat nor an accent. I'm currently living in the Czech Republic, and occasionally play Texas Hold 'em in the Banco Casino in Prague. It's every inch a European-style casino, with the exception that the dress code is lacking. And every once in a while, you'll even hear a piece of James Bond film music on the audio system. :-)

[ComplimentsOfSharky]

Well done Zen, nice find.

[Turn]

Having a new Bond like Craig may make Texas Hold 'em poker a little easier to take now. Let's just see what happens.

[Andrew]

From http://latinoreview....-interview.html

"Where as Bond I think has a lot of elements. He has a sense of humor, he's a great womanizer, he's very attractive, he's a great poker player or card player, he's a gambler. He's all of those things plus he's deadly."
-Martin Campbell

Can we now say this rumor has been confirmed?