1269 replies to this topic

[Gabe Vieira]

DAVID GOYER: We’re not going to tell you other than to say Batman has been published for 70 years. In the first movie we used Ra’s Al Ghul and the Scarecrow who had not been in the movies before and had not been in the 60s TV show and there are dozens, if not hundreds of other characters that fit that bill. Everyone says you have to use the Penguin or Catwoman. Well, I completely disagree.

JONATHAN NOLAN: There’s a very deep roster of great characters over seventy years.

Not an entirely, "I told you so", but a sign of things to come. Little dissappointed though, Kate Beckinsale was very keen on playing Catwoman.

Spoiler

But they do have a sport open for female lead in the next movie. Here's hoping!

Which reminds me, they should have gone for Jessica Biel from the start.

[Harmsway]

Another storyline that I would like to see in BATMAN 3 would be to have a struggle between the Joker and Roman Sionis for control of the criminal underworld in Gotham.

Now I know you haven't seen the film yet, but the Joker's given pretty much all he has to give in THE DARK KNIGHT. Even Ledger aside, there's no real reason for the character to return, especially in such a prominent role. THE DARK KNIGHT covered all the bases.

This would anger the Joker, who would then plot his escape from prison with the help of Dr. Harlene Quinzel. The Joker and Black Mask then would engage in a gang war that puts the entire city of Gotham in danger, and putting Batman right in the middle of it.

I'm all for a gang war (in addition to the murder mystery... what I'm doing is pretty much loosely taking DARK VICTORY here, which is a murder mystery set in the context of Gotham's gang wars), but I don't want it as clean cut as that. It needs to be messy - lots of little gangs fighting each other. We should get more costumed foes here, and have a basic freaks vs. mob conflict going on ala DARK VICTORY with lots of different people, where the standard criminal element attempts to recover their grounds from the costumed crazies and ultimately fails to do so.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I think the series needs Cat Woman, ie romance, sexuality. Wayne is primed for a romance with a criminal hottie. Or criminally hot! Seriously, this is a great opportunity to focus away from upping the ante of the joker(they can't and it would be pointless to try) and tell a different type of Batman story.

I love the suggestion of Casey Affleck as the Riddler or anyone else from the comics he would seem qualified to portray.

[tdalton]

I'm all for a gang war (in addition to the murder mystery... I'm pretty much taking DARK VICTORY here, which is a murder mystery set in the context of Gotham's gang wars), but I don't want it as clean cut as that. It needs to be messy - lots of little gangs fighting each other. We should get more costumed foes here, and have a basic freaks vs. mob conflict going on ala DARK VICTORY with lots of different people, where the standard criminal element attempts to recover their grounds from the costumed crazies and ultimately fails to do so.

How about this idea. We would have the mob vs. freaks conflict. Sionis (a character that I'm really wanting to see in BATMAN 3) starts out on the side of the mob fighting against the costumed villains. Towards the end of the film he is transformed into Black Mask and ultimately sells out the mobsters, allowing the costumed villains to win the conflict between the two.

[Harmsway]

Which reminds me, they should have gone for Jessica Biel from the start.

Her name was thrown out there by Tarl, and I have to say, "Pass." Not a talented enough actress. Look at the caliber of performer that makes up the BATMAN crew... we need actresses on that level. Not people like Biel.

How about this idea. We would have the mob vs. freaks conflict. Sionis (a character that I'm really wanting to see in BATMAN 3) starts out on the side of the mob fighting against the costumed villains. Towards the end of the film he is transformed into Black Mask and ultimately sells out the mobsters, allowing the costumed villains to win the conflict between the two.

I'd love it if this wasn't a follow-up to a film all about Harvey Dent's rise and fall, which kind of mirrors Sionis. That's the problem with Black Mask... superficially, his origin is a bit too much like Dent's, and the arc you prescribe for him above is a lot like Dent's arc.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Which reminds me, they should have gone for Jessica Biel from the start.

Her name was thrown out there by Tarl, and I have to say, "Pass." Not a talented enough actress. Look at the caliber of performer that makes up the BATMAN crew... we need actresses on that level. Not people like Biel.

I've decided she's too short. Cat Women should be a big scary intimidatingly hot and powerful bitch like Famke Jansen circa Goldeneye. I like what I see of Anne Hatthaway in the Get Smart Trailors but...I'd go for Eva Green or an unknown.I'd like Eva's natural french accent to be used...and get her ina martial arts/gymnastics program and you have a Cat Woman.

[tdalton]

Which reminds me, they should have gone for Jessica Biel from the start.

Her name was thrown out there by Tarl, and I have to say, "Pass." Not a talented enough actress. Look at the caliber of performer that makes up the BATMAN crew... we need actresses on that level. Not people like Biel.

How about this idea. We would have the mob vs. freaks conflict. Sionis (a character that I'm really wanting to see in BATMAN 3) starts out on the side of the mob fighting against the costumed villains. Towards the end of the film he is transformed into Black Mask and ultimately sells out the mobsters, allowing the costumed villains to win the conflict between the two.

I'd love it if this wasn't a follow-up to a film all about Harvey Dent's rise and fall, which kind of mirrors Sionis. That's the problem with Black Mask... superficially, his origin is a bit too much like Dent's, and the arc you prescribe for him above is a lot like Dent's arc.

Agreed with you on Jessica Biel. I've enjoyed her work in some films, but I can't see her as Catwoman. The only actress that I'd really like to see in that part would be Eva Green.

Fair enough. Since I haven't seen THE DARK KNIGHT, I obviously don't know everything is left off (although I do know some things about the ending), but I'm guessing that no matter how Black Mask was done that it wouldn't work in BATMAN 3?

What I would like to see from the remaining films in the franchise would be:

BATMAN 3: The Riddler (in a similar fashion to your previous suggestion) and Hush

BATMAN 4: Mob vs. Freaks with Roman Sionis betraying the mob

BATMAN 5: Catwoman and Poison Ivy (it could be interesting to see these two villains on screen together, both vying for Bruce Wayne/Batman's attention)

BATMAN 6: Knightfall

[Gabe Vieira]

I love the suggestion of Casey Affleck as the Riddler or anyone else from the comics he would seem qualified to portray.

Casey Affleck is a damned good choice, though I think thudio heads will want to go with a bigger name.

How about this idea. We would have the mob vs. freaks conflict. Sionis (a character that I'm really wanting to see in BATMAN 3) starts out on the side of the mob fighting against the costumed villains. Towards the end of the film he is transformed into Black Mask and ultimately sells out the mobsters, allowing the costumed villains to win the conflict between the two.

Not a bad idea, but the problem is "costumed" villians. All the villians in the new series have worn suits. Lets keep that going.

Which reminds me, they should have gone for Jessica Biel from the start.

Her name was thrown out there by Tarl, and I have to say, "Pass." Not a talented enough actress. Look at the caliber of performer that makes up the BATMAN crew... we need actresses on that level. Not people like Biel.

Biel is very tallented. Ever seen London or The Illusionist? She the really good in both. She only gets a bad rep because she did Stealth, and Blade: Trinity and some other not so good films, but every actor has done a "for the paycheck" film. Which reminds me, I just want to get out there, Ryan Reynolds is a great actor, should have been in Hancock (that entire movie was miscast, even Jason Bateman whom I love), but has the same problem as Biel and so many others.

[Harmsway]

Casey Affleck is a damned good choice, though I think thudio heads will want to go with a bigger name.

What the studio wants is irrelevant. After THE DARK KNIGHT, the studio's going to let Nolan do his own thing. Heck, they pratically gave him free reign on THE DARK KNIGHT.

Not a bad idea, but the problem is "costumed" villians. All the villians in the new series have worn suits. Lets keep that going.

Why? I mean, clearly if they use the Riddler or the Penguin, a suit is relevant, but it's hardly mandatory. And the villains need to get crazier than they've been in this post-Joker Gotham, both in actions and appearance. I'm not saying the costumes should violate Nolan's "real-world" aesthetic, but to say all Nolanverse villains should wear suits seems like a bit of a silly rule to me.

Biel is very tallented. Ever seen London or The Illusionist?

Yes. She's no great actress.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I disagree about Affleck. He was nominated for an Oscar and deserved to win.He's big enough for Nolan's world but not overexposed which is good(like Ledger was at the time of his casting). Being "big" is actually a liability.I don't wanna see any 90s Bat man style villians played by well known celebrities.

[tdalton]

Not a bad idea, but the problem is "costumed" villians. All the villians in the new series have worn suits. Lets keep that going.

By that I only meant those that are more outrageous villains opposed to the less outlandish mobsters like Falcone. I wasn't necessarily saying that they would be wearing costumes in the sense of the costumes that we saw in the Schumacher films (i.e. Riddler's green jumpsuit or Two-Face's multi-colored suit). I definitely agree with you that they should keep going forward with the realistic approach, or at least with trying to approach some of the more outrageous aspects of the Batman villains with something that's close to being realistic.

[Gabe Vieira]

Agreed with you on Jessica Biel. I've enjoyed her work in some films, but I can't see her as Catwoman. The only actress that I'd really like to see in that part would be Eva Green.

I didn't mean Jessica Biel as Catwoman, I meant her as Rachel. Katie Homlmes was horrible from the get go. Maggie Gyllenhall was by far a better choice, but is it just me or did she look horrible in The Dark Knight? I think she's really beautiful, gotten better with age, but what the Hell?!

And Eva Green? She certianly is beautiful, but Catwoman needs to be hot.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Rachel? have you seen the Dark Knight?

[Gabe Vieira]

Casey Affleck is a damned good choice, though I think thudio heads will want to go with a bigger name.

What the studio wants is irrelevant.

Really? Cause they're only paying for the dmaned thing. Nothing against Casey Affleck, Gone Baby Gone is a great movie, but he is still known as "Ben Affleck's Brother" to too many people.

I'll give you that in a million years that when it was announced that Heath Ledger was playing the Joker no omne could have ever imagined the character would be so... chaos incarnate. But Casey Affleck, I believe, is not that callibur an actor to create a character so far extended. Casey Affleck is to the Riddler as Heath Leder is to the Joker. I just can't see it.

I love the concept of opinions.

[Harmsway]

Really? Cause they're only paying for the dmaned thing.

Yeah, but they'll trust Nolan's judgment on this one.

I'll give you that in a million years that when it was announced that Heath Ledger was playing the Joker no omne could have ever imagined the character would be so... chaos incarnate. But Casey Affleck, I believe, is not that callibur an actor to create a character so far extended. Casey Affleck is to the Riddler as Heath Leder is to the Joker. I just can't see it.

I see it in ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES, which is a performance that carries all the right elements of a successful Riddler performance.

[Gabe Vieira]

Rachel? have you seen the Dark Knight?

No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying that Jessica Biel sould have played Rachel in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

Spoiler

I'm not retarded, I know that Rachel dies, which I actually didn't see coming.

[tdalton]

At this point, Casey Affleck is the only actor that I would really even want to see playing the Riddler. I think that he's one of the best actors out there today (and is certainly underrated by many) and he should have gotten TWO Academy Award nominations last year (he was phenomenal in GONE BABY GONE, and even outshone the always great Ed Harris and Morgan Freeman in that film).

[Gabe Vieira]

I see it in ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES, which is a performance that carries all the right elements of a successful Riddler performance.

You win this round... kind of. I Haven't seen Jesse James. But still, you have to agree, for any actor to attampt to do to the Riddler what Ledger did to the Joker is a monumental task.

I mean, people say that The Joker didn't get into his head and that it had nothing to do with his death. Not than I'm saying by any means it was his fault, but I don't know how someone can see The Dark Knight and say that. The Joker is so far removed from reason... faith, reality, everthing that makes sense.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Ok, you can have ice cream now.

Rent Jesse James...then, I will welcome you to the Casey Affleck must be in Batman 3 bandwagon.

[Gabe Vieira]

Ok, you can have ice cream now.

Awesome! What flavor?

[Tarl_Cabot]

Now I'm dying to see Gone baby gone...

[Gabe Vieira]

Now I'm dying to see Gone baby gone...

You see Gone Baby Gone, I'll see Jesse James.

Oh, and we all can get to say that we started the Casey Afleck for Riddler campaign. Start spreading the word!

[tdalton]

Now I'm dying to see Gone baby gone...

It's a fantastic film, and one that I can't say enough good things about. I know that I've gone on and on about it before, but it really should have been nominated for Best Picture last year, and Casey Affleck should have gotten a lead actor nomination as well for it. He carries the entire film and does some very great work opposite Ed Harris and Morgan Freeman.

[Tarl_Cabot]

Cool. I'll check it out soon.

I did read alot of praise for brother Ben's direction.

[Mister E]

I'm all for a gang war (in addition to the murder mystery... what I'm doing is pretty much loosely taking DARK VICTORY here, which is a murder mystery set in the context of Gotham's gang wars), but I don't want it as clean cut as that. It needs to be messy - lots of little gangs fighting each other. We should get more costumed foes here, and have a basic freaks vs. mob conflict going on ala DARK VICTORY with lots of different people, where the standard criminal element attempts to recover their grounds from the costumed crazies and ultimately fails to do so.

That would be a good opprotunity for Riddler to arise. Maybe he could manipulate different families of the mob to destroy each other ?

Edited by Mister E, 20 July 2008 - 11:21 PM.

[sharpshooter]

BATMAN 3 will be centered around a killer mystery, ala LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. In reality, the whole thing's just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a long time to get to that revelation.

Riddler is a very hard character to write for, and this fits well indeed. It’s what I’d like them to do as well. The Riddler’s intelligence, sleuthing and possible connections make him find out something that very few know, that

Spoiler

Dent is dead

- and it is wracking everyone’s brain – Batman included.

Riddler doesn’t kill, or doesn’t like to, so you could have him as a mastermind of the whole operation. He still condones the killings, though. He’s adding the riddles to the bodies for his game.

It is keeping alive the character of Dent in a way, and I like that. I’d make The Riddler true to form, but a little harder edged. I’d throw in some bizarre death traps in the Jigsaw vein, and flesh out the excessive compulsive side.

You can also have it that Riddler discovers Batman’s identity, ala the plot point from TDK. When it all hits the fan, the last bargaining chip could be Wayne’s identity. Riddler’s gizmos hijack Gotham Cable News and project an image of Batman on a screen, slowly being revealed pixel by pixel.

[Harmsway]

BATMAN 3 will be centered around a killer mystery, ala LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. In reality, the whole thing's just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a long time to get to that revelation.

Riddler is a very hard character to write for, and this fits well indeed. It’s what I’d like them to do as well. The Riddler’s intelligence, sleuthing and possible connections make him find out something that very few know, that

Spoiler

Dent is dead

- and it is wracking everyone’s brain – Batman included.

Uh, everybody knows Dent is dead. There was a public funeral.

[sharpshooter]

Ah, silly me. Forgot that. I was thinking only of the fall moment where Batman and Gordon are speaking. Strike that and reverse it. It’d be mighty bizarre for somebody appearing to be Two Face doing these crimes.

[Harmsway]

Ah, silly me. Forgot that. Strike that and reverse it. It’d be mighty bizarre for somebody appearing to be Two Face doing these crimes.

Yeah, and that's what I was going for originally.

[EyesOnly]

First off, NO studio executive would EVER allow the Joker to be recast. No one would top Heath, and it would be completely insulting. Plus, they dont need to.


I don't think you're sure that no studio executive would ever allow the joker to be recast...obviously that is your opinion stated as a fact. And, I truly don't understand these "recasting joker would be insulting" comments. Just because he did a great job as the joker and died doesn't mean he can't be recast, and it sincerely wouldn't be an insult. I'd like to believe that he wanted the role to continue what he started. It's an insult if they DON'T continue it just because he died...I mean, come on guys.

I'm not saying Joker would be in the third film, i'm just saying.


Uh, everybody knows Dent is dead. There was a public funeral.


It was a wake, not a funeral. There was no casket.

Edited by EyesOnly, 21 July 2008 - 04:44 AM.