1269 replies to this topic

[Tarl_Cabot]

As I was pointing out in the other thread, BB3 is going to be one hell of a film to pull off. With THE DARK KNIGHT leaving us with

Spoiler

Two-Face dead and Batman on the run from the cops,

this third installment's going to have to accomplish quite a bit.

doh! I shouldn't have read that!

Third title: How about just Batman ?

I hadn't even considered Casey Affleck. That's a wonderful choice. Loved him in THE ASSASSINATION OF JESSE JAMES BY THE COWARD ROBERT FORD. Now that he's in my mind, I'll be disappointed if they don't cast the chap. He's just that perfect for it.

Yes!! He would be great!!!

[Harmsway]

Here's a link to an interesting article on IGN regarding potential future villains and how they think they could fit into the current structure of the franchise:

From Comics To Film: Batman's Villains

Interesting article, but there's plenty of stuff I take issue with.

Such as?

Contrary to their suggestion that Talia al Ghul is a "no brainer" for part III, I don't Talia al Ghul and the League of Assassins should appear. Firstly, we've been there and done that, and secondly, it doesn't really fit the arc of how things should progress (film #3 needs to be about Batman becoming a more permanent protector of Gotham against the new breed of freaks, not fighting some outside foe).

Poison Ivy, if utilized, shouldn't be super-powered. I have no interest in seeing some chlorophyl-powered mutant in Nolan's universe. However, her origin wouldn't have to be thrown out entirely... the experiments performed on her can be the source of her madness, but sans superpowers. (And to be honest, I wouldn't really use the character... I don't think she's particularly interesting.)

Their backstory for the Riddler is an interesting new spin, but after Dr. Crane, I'm not really interested in seeing another academic turned villain. The Riddler has to be presented in a fashion that really differentiates him from all the foes that have come before, and that's not the way to do it.

[Andrew]

The problem with the next film, as I've said before, is that they're going to have to find a threat that is greater than that of The Joker in TDK. Now I'm sure that Nolan had originally intended on using The Joker in the third film but with Heath gone I really cannot see him recasting the role.

Spoiler

The other problem with the next villain is that they're going have to be such a menace that Gotham will be forced to turn back to Batman after he takes credit for Harvey's crimes at the end of TDK. I'm not really sure who can do that besides The Joker. Perhaps a gigantic freaks v. mob war?

For the third I think it would be interesting to take a page out of DARK VICTORY and have someone going around killing police officers and mobsters, making it look like it was Harvey Dent doing it. Of course, Dent is dead so this would puzzle everyone and Batman would be forced to uncover who is really behind the murders. Perhaps an assassin like Deadshot or David Cain?

I would also like to see Catwoman and Black Mask, as I noted earlier. I think that they could have an interesting feud with Batman getting in the middle.

I think the third film will also be a perfect time to bring in Harvey Bullock, especially since Batman will be public enemy number one.

That's really all my thoughts as of right now. As I said, the big hurdle is going to be getting a villain who is a true threat and getting Gotham to trust Batman

[Publius]

Their backstory for the Riddler is an interesting new spin, but after Dr. Crane, I'm not really interested in seeing another academic turned villain. The Riddler has to be presented in a fashion that really differentiates him from all the foes that have come before, and that's not the way to do it.

But where Crane was a nerdy lackey focused on fear and hallucinogens, the Riddler could be a criminal mastermind of Batman's intellectual caliber. As cool as crazy is (that's what the Joker is all about), there's no evil more daunting than someone who's in control of the situation, a regular puppet master who plays mind games to pull the strings to his liking.

And, unlike Ra's al Ghul who was driven by some warped sense of morality, he could simply be preoccupied with proving his cunning. That might seem boring, but the idea of an obsessive compulsive bad guy greatly intrigues me as I don't think I've ever really seen it.

Also, bizarre traps could easily fit in with Nolan's new realistic Bat-verse without sacrificing that over-the-top quality we expect from comic book movies. It'd make for some great cinema, too -- dramatic tension without the need for explosions and such. However, as has been said and we're all thinking, how would it all compare to the Joker?

Oh, and how about RIDDLE OF THE BAT for a Batman movie featuring the Riddler? Or maybe something like GOTHAM TWILIGHT if it's Two-Face?

[Mr. Blofeld]

That might seem boring, but the idea of an obsessive compulsive bad guy greatly intrigues me as I don't think I've ever really seen it.

Hmmmm... perhaps they could get Tony Shalhoub for the role?

[Harmsway]

As cool as crazy is (that's what the Joker is all about), there's no evil more daunting than someone who's in control of the situation, a regular puppet master who plays mind games to pull the strings to his liking.

Sure, but you don't need the character background IGN came up with to play off of that aspect of the character.

[tdalton]

Contrary to their suggestion that Talia al Ghul is a "no brainer" for part III, I don't Talia al Ghul and the League of Assassins should appear. Firstly, we've been there and done that, and secondly, it doesn't really fit the arc of how things should progress (film #3 needs to be about Batman becoming a more permanent protector of Gotham against the new breed of freaks, not fighting some outside foe).

Agreed. I think that the character could make an appearance in a later film if the current franchise was to span more than 3 films, but for the third film, I'd like to see some other villains.

I do like quite a few of their suggestions, though, minus the ties to Ras al Ghul that they make throughout the article. I wouldn't mind seeing Poison Ivy in an upcoming film (although I disagree with their casting on that one, I'd prefer to see Emily Blunt in the role), and the Riddler is certainly a villain that needs to be worked in before the conclusion of this particular franchise of Batman films, although once again I disagree with their casting choice (Casey Affleck is the best choice, IMO).

The two most interesting parts of the article were, to me, the parts about Bane and Harley Quinn. I would very much like to see Harley Quinn in the next film. I know that this is something that would require the return of the Joker, and I agree with them that Nolan should recast the role. It does appear as though Ledger has completely reinvented the character and made it all his own, and I do completely understand where the idea of it being disrespectful to Ledger to recast the role comes from, but on the flip side I think that if it was done in a respectful way and the actor that was brought in made it a point to really study Ledger's performance and made a genuine effort to pick things up from where Ledger left the character in THE DARK KNIGHT (this is all assuming that Nolan even intends the character to return for BATMAN 3, which I have no idea that he does or not), that it could be done without being disrespectful to Ledger. Perhaps it could even be treated as a tribute to Ledger. I think that Joaquin Phoenix would be a great choice to take over for Ledger and carry on what he was doing with the role, and someone like Kristen Bell would make for a great Harley Quinn.

As for Bane, I disagree with them on the direction they'd like to take the character. Instead of seeing the storyline that they suggest, I'd much rather see him appear in an adaptation of KNIGHTFALL. The way that I would love to see the current franchise end would be for it to run a total of six films, and have BATMAN 5 and BATMAN 6 both be adaptations of KNIGHTFALL,

Spoiler

with the first film being the first half of the story, with Batman hunting down the criminals that Bane freed from Arkham and ending with Bane confronting Batman and severely injuring him, and the sixth film being the second half of KNIGHTFALL, with Jean Paul Valley taking over as Batman and Bruce Wayne eventually returning and taking back the title at the end of the film

[tdalton]

Sorry for the double post, but I found a follow-up to the IGN article about potential villains for BATMAN 3:

From Comics to Film: Batman's Villains Part Two

Edited by tdalton, 19 July 2008 - 01:01 AM.

[Harmsway]

Interesting article. Their ability to speculate, however, is hurt by the fact they haven't yet seen THE DARK KNIGHT as of the writing of the article.

Their suggestion of Daniel Craig as Hush is a good 'un, though I think Craig is even more suited to the role of David Cain.

[tdalton]

Interesting article. Their ability to speculate, however, is hurt by the fact they haven't yet seen THE DARK KNIGHT as of the writing of the article.

Their suggestion of Daniel Craig as Hush is a good 'un, though I think Craig is even more suited to the role of David Cain.

I think that Craig would be good for a good number of characters in the Batman series, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him as Hush. He might also be good for Black Mask as well. Their suggestion of Peter Stormare as Mr. Freeze was great as well.

[EyesOnly]

Now I'm sure that Nolan had originally intended on using The Joker in the third film but with Heath gone I really cannot see him recasting the role.



Joker must be recast...Ledger did a great job as Joker, but, in no way is he bigger than the character. Joker needs to be recast whether he is in the next film or not. It will be hard to top the chaos and trouble caused in The Dark Knight. But, why top it? I think Catwoman is a great logical step to take. Selina Kyle can be somone who tempts bruce to fall in love (really fall in love like he loved Rachel Dawes..even though he never once said he loved her) and be Bruce Wayne that only Alfred knows. I think it would be very cool for there to be a huge love story in the third film while she causes some trouble as catwoman. Selina Kyle should be a main character while catwoman is a minor one. There will have to be a greater threat no doubt...who that will be I have no idea....I'm not sold on The Riddler yet...the Mad Hatter was always interesting to me as was Hugo Strange, but perhaps he isn't well known enough. Doing the Penguin the right way would be nice but not as a main villain.

as the title for the third, i'd go with "The Batman" or something with "Crusade" in it...not the caped crusader since the end of The Dark Knight signified Bruce has nothing left but his crusade.

Another note: It would be interesting to follow the The Dark Knight with Batman running from the police and generally being hated by most of Gotham ALL while being madly in love with Selina causing him to gradually don the cape and cowl less as he learns he can't take the constant pressure of being hated and misunderstood... The "greater threat" causes Gotham to call on Batman to become the hero he knows he is...

Edited by EyesOnly, 19 July 2008 - 03:30 AM.

[Harmsway]

Joker must be recast...Ledger did a great job as Joker, but, in no way is he bigger than the character. Joker needs to be recast whether he is in the next film or not.

Joker doesn't need to be recast. Not in this franchise. THE DARK KNIGHT's Joker casts a very long shadow indeed. In fact, it might just be the best portrayal of the character in any medium, ever. And that's astounding. Before I saw the performance, I was more willing to say that the part could be recast... but Ledger's too good.

[Tarl_Cabot]

The series doesn't need another Joker story. I love the Casey affleck suggestion as the Riddler.

Paul Giamatti could play a supporting role as the Penquin, a charcter who really doesn't deserve his own movie.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0316079/bio

His role as John Adams really makes me love him in the Nolan Batman world.He doesn't have to be a circus clown like Devito.

[Judo chop]

My stinking brothers are too weak to see a 12:51 am show with me.

[sharpshooter]

Joker doesn't need to be recast. Not in this franchise. THE DARK KNIGHT's Joker casts a very long shadow indeed. In fact, it might just be the best portrayal of the character in any medium, ever. And that's astounding. Before I saw the performance, I was more willing to say that the part could be recast... but Ledger's too good.

Agreed and agreed. It is the best interpretation of the character in any medium. Ledger is the benchmark now. I don't see this being topped, ever. Good luck to the fellow who tries.

[Righty007]

Joker doesn't need to be recast. Not in this franchise. THE DARK KNIGHT's Joker casts a very long shadow indeed. In fact, it might just be the best portrayal of the character in any medium, ever. And that's astounding. Before I saw the performance, I was more willing to say that the part could be recast... but Ledger's too good.

I don't see this being topped, ever. Good luck to the fellow who tries.

I agree but we said the same thing about Jack...

[EyesOnly]

No doubt Ledger did a fantastic job with the Joker and I don't even know if he will b back in this series of films...if so, I believe he should be recast even if it IS a daunting task to follow in Ledgers steps.

[Andrew]

Joker doesn't need to be recast. Not in this franchise. THE DARK KNIGHT's Joker casts a very long shadow indeed. In fact, it might just be the best portrayal of the character in any medium, ever. And that's astounding. Before I saw the performance, I was more willing to say that the part could be recast... but Ledger's too good.

I don't see this being topped, ever. Good luck to the fellow who tries.

I agree but we said the same thing about Jack...

I never said the same thing about Jack. He was always just Jack Nicholson as Jack Nicholson in makeup to me.

[Tarl_Cabot]

My stinking brothers are too weak to see a 12:51 am show with me.

LOL I woulda gone!

[Harmsway]

Joker doesn't need to be recast. Not in this franchise. THE DARK KNIGHT's Joker casts a very long shadow indeed. In fact, it might just be the best portrayal of the character in any medium, ever. And that's astounding. Before I saw the performance, I was more willing to say that the part could be recast... but Ledger's too good.

I don't see this being topped, ever. Good luck to the fellow who tries.

I agree but we said the same thing about Jack...

I never did. Jack's Joker was never definitive. It was fun. Good, bordering on great. And back in the day, it was pretty impressive. But I never, ever would have said it was "the best portrayal of the character in any medium." Because it didn't come close. But this... well, this is too good to top. And in all liklihood, too good to equal, as well.

[tdalton]

No doubt Ledger did a fantastic job with the Joker and I don't even know if he will b back in this series of films...if so, I believe he should be recast even if it IS a daunting task to follow in Ledgers steps.

Agreed. I think that the character should be recast (if he was meant to return in BATMAN 3), no matter good Ledger's Joker is. I have a lot of respect for Heath Ledger as an actor and in no way mean any disrespect by saying that the role should be recast, but if the Joker was originally mean to return in BATMAN 3, then I think that Nolan (or whoever is directing the film) should recast the role.

[Gobi-1]

I'd like to see a one-two punch of Catwoman and The Riddler. They would challenge Bruce emotionally and intellectually. Catwoman: the heart, emotions, sexually. The Riddler: the brain, intellect, mentally.

Bruce would be pulled in two directions at once. How can he defeat The Riddler, who's constantly taxing his brain, when he can't even get a grip on his emotions because he's under Catwoman's spell.

As for titles. I'd like for them not to repeat any words from the previous titles. Shadow of the Bat and Dark Victory would be out. Caped Crusader is an option since it was mentioned by Harvey in the film. Including Gotham in the title might be appropriate.

Gotham's Protector
Gotham City
I Believe In Gotham

[sharpshooter]

Spoiler

For the third I think it would be interesting to take a page out of DARK VICTORY and have someone going around killing police officers and mobsters, making it look like it was Harvey Dent doing it. Of course, Dent is dead so this would puzzle everyone and Batman would be forced to uncover who is really behind the murders. Perhaps an assassin like Deadshot or David Cain?

I like that a lot, actually.

I'd like to see a one-two punch of Catwoman and The Riddler. They would challenge Bruce emotionally and intellectually. Catwoman: the heart, emotions, sexually. The Riddler: the brain, intellect, mentally.

Bruce would be pulled in two directions at once. How can he defeat The Riddler, who's constantly taxing his brain, when he can't even get a grip on his emotions because he's under Catwoman's spell.

I'd definitely like to see The Riddler in part three, as Catwoman. This scenario and reasoning would be fine with me. Oh, and sorry, but those three titles are terrible.

[Harmsway]

Spoiler

For the third I think it would be interesting to take a page out of DARK VICTORY and have someone going around killing police officers and mobsters, making it look like it was Harvey Dent doing it. Of course, Dent is dead so this would puzzle everyone and Batman would be forced to uncover who is really behind the murders. Perhaps an assassin like Deadshot or David Cain?

I like that a lot, actually.

So do I. I wonder if BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHT will have a limiting effect on BBIII, given that it's set within the BEGINS/DARK KNIGHT continuity. If so, Deadshot's probably out of the running.

As for a title, I say they go with the title of the Akiva Goldsman Batman/Superman project: ASYLUM. It would perfectly reference the state of Gotham City in the wake of the Joker's supervillainy. As the Joker says, "You've changed things. Forever." And the Joker was just the harbinger of more to come.

[Gabe Vieira]

Spoiler

I'd like to see BATMAN 3's title incorporate the word "Dawn" in reference to Dent's line from the trailer "I promise you, the dawn is coming"

That's exactly what I was thinking! Forward Unto Dawn, Into the Dawn, something like.

As for the villians, the question is how can you turn any of Batman's remaining rogues gallery into realistic, logical villians. I was watching a special on the psychology of Batman and his villians few days ago that was very interesting. They compared The Riddler to BTK and the Zodiak Killer, in the likes that they are very narcissistic, leave clues for the police because they enjoy the recognition they get for killing. Turning The Riddler into the Zodiak Killer? Rather dark even for the new series, but I do kinda like it.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread (sorry), so Im not entirely sure if he's been mentioned, but, Hugo Strange. As most Batman villans have, Strange went through several incarnations, but the one that is very intriguing is that of a psychologist whom Bruce begins to see when the personality of Batman begins to pour over into Bruce Wayne too much. Strange eventually figures out that Bruce is Batman and tries to auction off the Batmans identity to various criminals, including mob boss Rupert Thorne, who I can guarentee will be in the next movie.

The Riddler, Hugo Strange, Rupert Thorne, a line or two about the Joker, and some new low level guy made just for the movie? Sounds good to me. And if you'll notice, all the villians so far in the new series always wear suits. Lets keep that going.

Also, not sure why everyone keeps talking about Catwoman. Nolan has already said that he very much does NOT want to use her, along with the Penguin, because Burton already used them successfully. Of course "successfully" is very broad, but then again Joel Schumacher used 70 years of Batman history than nothing more than a rag.

Oh, and about Batman Gotham Kight being taken as cannon in the new series; as cool as it was, I hope not. Killer Crock within the realm of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight just doesnt work. And they've already used up "the opposite of Batman of a villian" routine with the Joker and Two Face, so I cant see them using Deadshot.

[Gabe Vieira]

[quote name='EyesOnly' date='19 July 2008 - 00:02' post='893335']
Now I'm sure that Nolan had originally intended on using The Joker in the third film but with Heath gone I really cannot see him recasting the role.

Joker must be recast...Ledger did a great job as Joker, but, in no way is he bigger than the character. quote]

First off, NO studio executive would EVER allow the Joker to be recast. No one would top Heath, and it would be completely insulting. Plus, they dont need to.

Spoiler

They ended on a good point with the Joker being captured. If they really want him to be part of the next movie, it would be very small, a cameo. Get some shots from behind and have a few lines about him. Maybe we'll see him through a tiny window in Arkham Asylum.

And originally, David Goyer said that The Joker would be captured at the end of the second film, go on trial, and he would be the one to scar Dent. Harvey Too Face would then be the villian in the next movie. And, again, I can assure you that it was a studio dicission that didn't allow that. As cool as Harvey Too Face looked in The Dark Knight, there were multipule people, especially women, who came out of the theater saying they'd never see the next movie if they'd have too look at Harvey Too Face the entire time. And I agree with them.

Spoiler

Thats why he was only in a third of the film, and why they killed him off, which actually surprised me.

Waring: Both are HUGE spoliers about The Dark Knight.

[Harmsway]

I'd like to see BATMAN 3's title incorporate the word "Dawn" in reference to Dent's line from the trailer "I promise you, the dawn is coming"

That's exactly what I was thinking! Forward Unto Dawn, Into the Dawn, something like.

Eh. Not exactly striking, though. And it's debatable whether there will be a dawn in BATMAN 3. I don't think so.

As for the villians, the question is how can you turn any of Batman's remaining rogues gallery into realistic, logical villians. I was watching a special on the psychology of Batman and his villians few days ago that was very interesting. They compared The Riddler to BTK and the Zodiak Killer, in the likes that they are very narcissistic, leave clues for the police because they enjoy the recognition they get for killing. Turning The Riddler into the Zodiak Killer? Rather dark even for the new series, but I do kinda like it.

I don't think it's too dark for this series. Not after THE DARK KNIGHT. But I'd go about it this way:

BATMAN 3 will be centered around a killer mystery, ala LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. In reality, the whole thing's just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a long time to get to that revelation.

Strange eventually figures out that Bruce is Batman and tries to auction off the Batmans identity to various criminals, including mob boss Rupert Thorne, who I can guarentee will be in the next movie.

Yeah, but that storyline's a bit too similar to the Reese storyline in THE DARK KNIGHT. If they use Strange, I think they have to go a different route.

Also, not sure why everyone keeps talking about Catwoman. Nolan has already said that he very much does NOT want to use her, along with the Penguin, because Burton already used them successfully.

Do you have a source? 'Cause I don't remember any such quote. Nolan has said he doesn't want to use Penguin, but to the best of my knowledge, he never used that rationale, and I don't think he ever addressed Catwoman. Now screenwriter David Goyer did address Catwoman recently, suggesting he didn't think she was the way to go for a future installment. But not Nolan himself.

Oh, and about Batman Gotham Kight being taken as cannon in the new series; as cool as it was, I hope not. Killer Crock within the realm of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight just doesnt work.

Well, you don't have to reference Croc or something like that to keep it in the continuity. You just wouldn't contradict anything it established. And I'm curious as to whether or not Nolan will do that. One idea I'm keen to see Nolan keep is the idea of the entirety of the Narrows becoming Arkham Asylum. That's way cool.

[Gabe Vieira]

Do you have a source? 'Cause I don't remember any such quote. Nolan has said he doesn't want to use Penguin, but to the best of my knowledge, he never used that rationale, and I don't think he ever addressed Catwoman. Now screenwriter David Goyer did address Catwoman recently, suggesting he didn't think she was the way to go for a future installment. But not Nolan himself.

Sorry, no source, just from memory. But remember, it was rumored that The Penguin was originally going to have a cameo in The Dark Knight as a British arms dealer and Phillip Seymour Hoffman was going to play him. Nolan later said that he would love to have Hoffman in the series but not in such a small roll.

One idea I'm keen to see Nolan keep is the idea of the entirety of the Narrows becoming Arkham Asylum. That's way cool.

That is cool. Oh, and out of ANY actor out there today, I really want to see John Malkovich as a part of the next movie. All in favor?

[Harmsway]

There's a new [url="http://<a%20href="http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_15021.html"%20target="_blank">http://www.moviesonl..._15021.html</a>"]David Goyer/Jonathan Nolan[/url] interview regarding THE DARK KNIGHT, and they have some words about BATMAN 3. Here's their comments:

MoviesOnline: Talking about how difficult it is to write a sequel that’s better than the first film, what do you think are the chances for a sequel to this film?

DAVID GOYER: I think Warner Bros would like to do another one. As far as Chris goes, we haven’t had any long conversations about it yet. It wasn’t until three or four months after Batman Begins opened that Chris and I sat down and talked about another one. We’ll have to see. It’s definitely a much scarier proposition. It was a scary proposition trying to do Dark Knight. It’s sort of a geometrically proportionate scary proposition to try to do another one, but we’ll see.

JONATHAN NOLAN: Absolutely.

MoviesOnline: But you left it at such an open space where now … you can’t leave him like that?

JONATHAN NOLAN: I think the idea, as much as anything, is to make a complete film; but also one that suggests the universe that the comic books…to me this is how I always imagined it. If we hadn’t made a sequel to Batman Begins, you would imagine that the Joker card explained where we’re at in the comic books and sort of opened into that universe.

DAVID GOYER: The movie still feels complete. I think if there was not a third one, it’s not like “Oh my god! These things haven’t been answered.”

JONATHAN NOLAN: That’s the idea, very much. It’s to make complete films.

MoviesOnline: You’ve done Scarecrow, you’ve done Joker, Ra’s Al Ghul, and now Two-Face, if you were to do a third film, which characters would you like to tackle?

DAVID GOYER: We’re not going to tell you other than to say Batman has been published for 70 years. In the first movie we used Ra’s Al Ghul and the Scarecrow who had not been in the movies before and had not been in the 60s TV show and there are dozens, if not hundreds of other characters that fit that bill. Everyone says you have to use the Penguin or Catwoman. Well, I completely disagree.

JONATHAN NOLAN: There’s a very deep roster of great characters over seventy years.

[tdalton]

BATMAN 3 will be centered around a killer mystery, ala LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY. A killer is taking out different bad cops, leaving pinned riddles and clues on them. The thing is, the clues and riddles are written on Harvey Dent's old case files about the mob. In reality, the whole thing's just a mind game set up by the Riddler, but it takes the film a long time to get to that revelation.

I like this idea.

Another storyline that I would like to see in BATMAN 3 would be to have a struggle between the Joker and Roman Sionis for control of the criminal underworld in Gotham. What I'd like to see is the film beginning with Sionis climbing up the ladder in the underworld and eventually transforming into Black Mask, and gaining a reputation for being even more cruel and twisted than the Joker. This would anger the Joker, who would then plot his escape from prison with the help of Dr. Harlene Quinzel. The Joker and Black Mask then would engage in a gang war that puts the entire city of Gotham in danger, and putting Batman right in the middle of it.