2519 replies to this topic

[DamnCoffee]

I wasn't referring to character themes.

Ok, what other music was reused from Raiders? Except from the Raiders March and Marions theme. Oh and the Ark Theme, which was also referenced in TLC.

[sharpshooter]

It would have been better without seeing the alien.

Seeing what they look like takes away all the mystery. If they had just used the crystal skeletons I would have been fine with that. Then they are either alien remains, or they are artifacts made to honour the gods. In my opinion, it needed to be done in a way that hinted at alien life, but also made the viewer skeptical if it really is that.

At the end of an Indy film there is no specualtion, you see the super natural artifact in action. It would have been a totally ineffective ending if the audience had to guess what the artifact in question really was.

Well, ok, sure. Have the crystal skeletons in play communicating telepathically. Just don't wheel out a goofy, stereotypical looking alien.

[byline]

It would have been better without seeing the alien.

Seeing what they look like takes away all the mystery. If they had just used the crystal skeletons I would have been fine with that. Then they are either alien remains, or they are artifacts made to honour the gods. In my opinion, it needed to be done in a way that hinted at alien life, but also made the viewer skeptical if it really is that.

At the end of an Indy film there is no specualtion, you see the super natural artifact in action. It would have been a totally ineffective ending if the audience had to guess what the artifact in question really was.

I agree with this. Just wish they could've done a better job with the flying saucer. I'll never forget my reaction to seeing the space ship in full view in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" (or most of what was in the original "Star Wars"). Maybe once you've done those things, it's hard to come up with a concept that will take the audience's breath away (and yes, I know it was a nod to all the flying saucer films of that era), but I felt like they didn't even try. That was the climactic moment of the film? Pretty underwhelming, for me.

[Harmsway]

For those wondering about the Frank Darabont draft, INDIANA JONES AND THE CITY OF THE GODS (which had Nazis in hiding after WWII seeking out the crystal skulls), Delamorte of CHUD/collider has provided some details:

Mutt didn't come from the Darabont draft. It had the Skull, the ants, and the waterfall, though. Similar kind of ending, if memory serves, with the Aliens, but Jones says he's made his choice, and that he's gotten the greatest fortune and glory in getting Marion's hand back from her husband, who - in the least surprising development in the screenplay - is a Belloq. I haven't read the thing in so long that it's not really fair, but IIRC there's no wedding, but it's implied. The big thing missing is the biplane sequence, which would have killed, though would have been hella chromakeyed up. And Darabont's snake bit (Indy was over his fear, until later in the film - and this is justified by the skull making all the animal and insect life bigger - a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out) is way better, and his cold open plays stronger, and I don't think it has the atomic village stuff, it does have him riding out in a refridgerator. The Mac character is there, but he's actually Russian, and he doesn't get chumped by being too stupid to stand up and walk out.

Sounds just as wacky and zany as KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, if you ask me. I expect, though, that the execution was a bit tighter given all the raves we heard about it.

Well, ok, sure. Have the crystal skeletons in play communicating telepathically. Just don't wheel out a goofy, stereotypical looking alien.

I'm kind of with you here. It was really that awful CGI close-up of the alien that felt most ridiculous to me. I would have been happier had they just stayed as those very fascinating crystal skeletons.

I agree with this. Just wish they could've done a better job with the flying saucer. I'll never forget my reaction to seeing the space ship in full view in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" (or most of what was in the original "Star Wars"). Maybe once you've done those things, it's hard to come up with a concept that will take the audience's breath away (and yes, I know it was a nod to all the flying saucer films of that era), but I felt like they didn't even try. That was the climactic moment of the film? Pretty underwhelming, for me.

I found the saucer shot to be seriously awe-inspiring. Definitely, for me, the highlight of the film. I can agree with criticizing the skeletons turning into a standard grey alien, but that saucer take-off? Pure gold, if you ask me.

[Mister E]

I found the saucer shot to be seriously awe-inspiring. Definitely, for me, the highlight of the film. I can agree with criticizing the skeletons turning into a standard grey alien, but that saucer take-off? Pure gold, if you ask me.

I also liked it because it was nice build up until saucer actually took off. Also the room of the crystal skeletons was great.

[byline]

I found the saucer shot to be seriously awe-inspiring. Definitely, for me, the highlight of the film. I can agree with criticizing the skeletons turning into a standard grey alien, but that saucer take-off? Pure gold, if you ask me.

I also liked it because it was nice build up until saucer actually took off. Also the room of the crystal skeletons was great.

Interesting. I agree with you both that the buildup to the flying saucer was quite good, and the idea of the takeoff was pretty neat, but I just felt that the flying saucer, itself, was not very impressive. Hubby felt the same way. No real sense of wonder or awe.

[DamnCoffee]

...a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out...

I think I prefer the Aliens!

[Harmsway]

...a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out...

I think I prefer the Aliens!

I won't judge it until I've read the script. It's clearly going in line with the "1950s B-movie" theme with their giant animals (the only final reference to those in KINGDOM are the ants, which are a wink at THE NAKED JUNGLE and THEM!).

For me, it would really depend on the execution. There's something really mythological about a hero grappling with a giant monstrous serpent (even being swallowed and cutting his way out, which is downright Odyssean). It fits in with the pulp source material. Crazy, sure, but if played in the right way, it could have been very cool.

[sharpshooter]

That evokes the scene in Men In Black where Will Smith's character is swallowed by the alien. I wouldn't be surprised if they considered doing that in KOTCS either!

The giant snake swallowing would be a tough sell because it sounds crazy from the outset. But yeah, it would be all down to the execution.

[marktmurphy]

Well, you never know... INDIANA JONES V and VI could be masterpieces, the CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE to KINGDOM's DIE ANOTHER DAY. Or they could just be KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL II and III (but I'd still enjoy that, for what it's worth).

At the very least, I have multiple ideas for Indy adventures that would be different enough from what's come before that I would love to see on the big screen.

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to. I do like Temple for the fact that they do so much that's different. The opening sequence is inspired, I think (and that was George's idea- a little fact for those who give him so much stick!).

Ok, what other music was reused from Raiders? Except from the Raiders March and Marions theme. Oh and the Ark Theme, which was also referenced in TLC.

Well a bit of Flight From Peru was recycled wholesale, plus the Nazi march from Raiders got a (bizarre) use.

For those wondering about the Frank Darabont draft, INDIANA JONES AND THE CITY OF THE GODS (which had Nazis in hiding after WWII seeking out the crystal skulls), Delamorte of CHUD/collider has provided some details:

Mutt didn't come from the Darabont draft. It had the Skull, the ants, and the waterfall, though. Similar kind of ending, if memory serves, with the Aliens, but Jones says he's made his choice, and that he's gotten the greatest fortune and glory in getting Marion's hand back from her husband, who - in the least surprising development in the screenplay - is a Belloq. I haven't read the thing in so long that it's not really fair, but IIRC there's no wedding, but it's implied. The big thing missing is the biplane sequence, which would have killed, though would have been hella chromakeyed up. And Darabont's snake bit (Indy was over his fear, until later in the film - and this is justified by the skull making all the animal and insect life bigger - a giant snake swallows him whole and Indy cuts his way out) is way better, and his cold open plays stronger, and I don't think it has the atomic village stuff, it does have him riding out in a refridgerator. The Mac character is there, but he's actually Russian, and he doesn't get chumped by being too stupid to stand up and walk out.

Sounds just as wacky and zany as KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, if you ask me. I expect, though, that the execution was a bit tighter given all the raves we heard about it.

I really like the sound of some of that- the big snake works for me. I can think of loads of pulp book covers that have that sort of imagery.
The Complete Making of book has some extracts from various unmade scripts- there's one with some good Indy-like scenes where he and some chums enter a dodgy bar or something to get an object- Indy tells his mate to go to the other end of the bar and count to twenty; he sops him and says 'wait; better make that twenty five', stops him again and says 'no, make that thirty'. Just the sort of thing I can see Ford doing. And I love that he gives a museum curator this object which he's just fought tooth and nail for, for which the guy is hugely grateful until he says 'oh, you scratched it'.

I'm kind of with you here. It was really that awful CGI close-up of the alien that felt most ridiculous to me. I would have been happier had they just stayed as those very fascinating crystal skeletons.

Yeah didn't need to see that. I would have preferred to see her face melting more and the alien less. It didn't help that it looked like every CGI alien from the last 15 years. If it had been more 50's it might have helped, but it was a bit uninspired and spoilt the mystery slightly.

I found the saucer shot to be seriously awe-inspiring. Definitely, for me, the highlight of the film. I can agree with criticizing the skeletons turning into a standard grey alien, but that saucer take-off? Pure gold, if you ask me.

Yeah; nothing wrong with that. The shot of the water entering the valley was pretty amazing- some of the most realistic CGI I've seen.

[marktmurphy]

So I dug out my RAIDERS DVD and watched about half the film. Hadn't seen it in years (I saw - and enjoyed - the second half of TEMPLE of TV the other day, and tried and failed to sit through CRUSADE when it was on telly recently).

I was expecting RAIDERS to be perfect, and you know what? I don't think it is. Don't get me wrong, it's hugely entertaining stuff, and when it works it really works. It's full of shots and scenes that have rightly entered movie history, and back in the day it felt genuinely fresh and exciting and led to hundreds of imitations, blah blah blah.

But perfect?

I don't know if I was watching a different RAIDERS to the one that everyone raves about, but I find that the film has a few pacing problems. Okay, so I'm not calling for the modern day Michael Bay treatment whereby everything's put together so fast and so messily because it's feared that viewers have no attention span whatsoever, but consider the scene near the beginning in which government agents visit Indy and Brody - it's a dialogue-fest that seems to drag on forever, with the actors (as often seems the case during RAIDERS) rather too far away from the camera. It slows things down.

They talk for a bit to explain the plot after a big pacey set-piece that starts the film off. And as they're talking about something so interesting and setting up a mystery, I don't see the problem. I've never been bored. Then we get a short scene at Indy's house which makes the Ark even more scary, building up the tension and excitement. It's no slower than any Bond movie. The only thing that disappoints me is that they cut out the bit where they explain about closing your eyes when the Ark is opened.

I mean, how does the Nazi know that he should follow Indy to Nepal? (Okay, you can "fanwank" an answer, namely that the Nazis were keeping tabs on the American government agents, who led them to Indy, but it's the sort of thing that requires some suspension of disbelief.) How does Indy know where to find Marion? Why do the Nazis go to extreme and constant lengths to have Indy killed as soon as he turns up in Cairo, yet they don't kill him when he's a sitting duck talking to Belloq? (Although they do try again straight afterwards.)

Belloq knows the importance of the Medallion, and knowing Indy personally he probably also knows that Ravenwood had the medallion and told the Nazis. The one on the plane is a bit of an oddity- I always forget about him.
Indy knowing where Marion is isn't that weird, is it? Why wouldn't he know where she went? She's obviously been there a while, after all.
As for not killing Indy when he's talking to Belloq; well Belloq is trying to convince Indy to join him- why would you kill someone you think you can convert to the dark side while you're trying to do it?

And then there are the performances: while Ford has some wonderful, history-making moments (his shooting of the swordsman cracks me up every time), there are also points at which he overacts horribly or is just plain wooden. And there's not quite as much chemistry between him and Karen Allen as I'd always imagined.

I think Ford gets better after Raiders, but he certainly doesn't start out bad. He's a proper movie star.

RAIDERS is mainly a triumph of production design and action. I wonder whether it's as far removed from CRYSTAL as many people are making out.

It's a triumph of writing, direction, casting, editing, music and everything else too.
Crystal's a load of good fun in the same vein, I don't think it's far removed.

[Harmsway]

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to.

What I'd do with an INDY V and an INDY VI is as follows:

INDY V would be a return to darker waters for Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said that he'd feel more comfortable and would be more capable and interested in tackling the dark waters of TEMPLE OF DOOM... well, we're going to take Indiana Jones back into horror territory. Back in the day, Lucas and Spielberg both tried to do a Hammer Horror homage for INDY III, and so they would draw on that material here. A boldly dark, more clearly supernatural adventure as Indy quests across the continents doing battle with an evil cult of ancient vampires.

And then INDY VI would be the farewell journey. Assuming INDY V is set in 1959 or such, then INDY VI places us in 1960-61. And what better time to reference the 1960s spy craze, which was just about to take over cinemas? Jones finds himself being roped in to help with a government concern - artifact smuggling, being used to support criminal activities (a wink towards Fleming's LIVE AND LET DIE there). But Jones soon finds himself in for more than he bargained for, on a quest that involves the lost gold of Yamas*h*i*ta (darn censor) and the legendary coral palace of the Japanese dragon god, Ryujin.

[marktmurphy]

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to.

What I'd do with an INDY V and an INDY VI is as follows:

INDY V would be a return to darker waters for Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said that he'd feel more comfortable and would be more capable and interested in tackling the dark waters of TEMPLE OF DOOM... well, we're going to take Indiana Jones back into horror territory. Back in the day, Lucas and Spielberg both tried to do a Hammer Horror homage for INDY III, and so they would draw on that material here. A boldly dark, more clearly supernatural adventure as Indy quests across the continents doing battle with an evil cult of ancient vampires.

I've been thinking about the same sort of thing. In fact, I was thinking, if Raiders and Crusade deal so much with God, isn't it about time that Indy came up against the other end of that spectrum; namely some naughty people seeking to bring back The Beast himself? Satan being brought back into existence has gotta be a proper scary supernatural ending, hasn't it? There's gotta be plenty of history to use there, too- plenty of pagan stuff and all sorts of secret societies.

And then INDY VI would be the farewell journey. Assuming INDY V is set in 1959 or such, then INDY VI places us in 1960-61. And what better time to reference the 1960s spy craze, which was just about to take over cinemas? Jones finds himself being roped in to help with a government concern - artifact smuggling, being used to support criminal activities (a wink towards Fleming's LIVE AND LET DIE there). But Jones soon finds himself in for more than he bargained for, on a quest that involves the lost gold of Yamas*h*i*ta (darn censor) and the legendary coral palace of the Japanese dragon god, Ryujin.

That's good fun. I did like the FBI aspect of Crystal Skull; shame it got sidelined somewhat. It'd be good to see more Far East in Indy (although looks like The Mummy 3 is doing that big this time); I'd like to see some snowy Indy too- a bit of Russia or Mongolia or something would be fun. Abominable Snowmen!

I'd like to have a look at those Indy novels that came out in the US in the 90's- sounded like some decent ideas in there- even dinosaur eggs isn't too far out for Indy I think! Hopefully they can get that Rollins chap who novelized Skull to do some more, he sounds more than up for it and is rather good at that sort of thing, I understand.

[Mister E]

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to.

What I'd do with an INDY V and an INDY VI is as follows:

INDY V would be a return to darker waters for Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said that he'd feel more comfortable and would be more capable and interested in tackling the dark waters of TEMPLE OF DOOM... well, we're going to take Indiana Jones back into horror territory. Back in the day, Lucas and Spielberg both tried to do a Hammer Horror homage for INDY III, and so they would draw on that material here. A boldly dark, more clearly supernatural adventure as Indy quests across the continents doing battle with an evil cult of ancient vampires.

And then INDY VI would be the farewell journey. Assuming INDY V is set in 1959 or such, then INDY VI places us in 1960-61. And what better time to reference the 1960s spy craze, which was just about to take over cinemas? Jones finds himself being roped in to help with a government concern - artifact smuggling, being used to support criminal activities (a wink towards Fleming's LIVE AND LET DIE there). But Jones soon finds himself in for more than he bargained for, on a quest that involves the lost gold of Yamas*h*i*ta (darn censor) and the legendary coral palace of the Japanese dragon god, Ryujin.

Please tell me more ! Who you would you cast and such.

[Harmsway]

I've been thinking about the same sort of thing. In fact, I was thinking, if Raiders and Crusade deal so much with God, isn't it about time that Indy came up against the other end of that spectrum; namely some naughty people seeking to bring back The Beast himself? Satan being brought back into existence has gotta be a proper scary supernatural ending, hasn't it? There's gotta be plenty of history to use there, too- plenty of pagan stuff and all sorts of secret societies.

Yeah, a Satanic Indy adventure would be an interesting twist. Or perhaps some item that would bring back an undead army (zombie movies... or you could do it JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS skeleton army style). There's a lot of ways to go with that whole genre. An interesting movie to look at for inspiration would be the Hammer-inspired IT! with Roddy McDowell, about the Golem.

It'd be good to see more Far East in Indy (although looks like The Mummy 3 is doing that big this time);

Yeah. Because THE MUMMY's doing it, that's why my INDY VI wasn't set in China, instead it's the Phillipines and Japan, and it's also the second of the two installments, so there's more distance between it and MUMMY 3.

I'd like to see some snowy Indy too- a bit of Russia or Mongolia or something would be fun.

I was actually thinking the snow might work with the Hammer Horror film vibe, two... Nice, forbidding snowy castles on the top of mountains. Spielberg/Lucas always wanted a teaser sequence set in one of those. Perhaps INDY V could kick off with Indy poking around one.

Abominable Snowmen!

I considered it (gotta love them abominable snowmen, and THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN was a Hammer feature), but MUMMY 3's already doing it.

I'd like to have a look at those Indy novels that came out in the US in the 90's- sounded like some decent ideas in there- even dinosaur eggs isn't too far out for Indy I think!

Decent ideas, lackluster execution... I didn't really like how the authors handled the material. I think the best EU stuff was actually done with the Dark Horse Indy comics. Some of it was woefully mediocre, but some of it was actually quite good (I really dug INDIANA JONES AND THE IRON PHOENIX). I'm hoping the Indy machine gets back up and we can get some good quality Indy adventures. There's that Indy comic coming out towards the end of the month - INDIANA JONES AND THE TOMB OF THE GODS.

[Tarl_Cabot]

http://www.nostradam...ple_chapter.php

This is very entertaining stuff...reminds me of Blofeld's plans...

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to.

What I'd do with an INDY V and an INDY VI is as follows:

INDY V would be a return to darker waters for Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said that he'd feel more comfortable and would be more capable and interested in tackling the dark waters of TEMPLE OF DOOM... well, we're going to take Indiana Jones back into horror territory. Back in the day, Lucas and Spielberg both tried to do a Hammer Horror homage for INDY III, and so they would draw on that material here. A boldly dark, more clearly supernatural adventure as Indy quests across the continents doing battle with an evil cult of ancient vampires.

And then INDY VI would be the farewell journey. Assuming INDY V is set in 1959 or such, then INDY VI places us in 1960-61. And what better time to reference the 1960s spy craze, which was just about to take over cinemas? Jones finds himself being roped in to help with a government concern - artifact smuggling, being used to support criminal activities (a wink towards Fleming's LIVE AND LET DIE there). But Jones soon finds himself in for more than he bargained for, on a quest that involves the lost gold of Yamas*h*i*ta (darn censor) and the legendary coral palace of the Japanese dragon god, Ryujin.

Interesting. How would you handle Indy's family? Because that seems to be the biggest hurdle for me at the end of KotCS. Indy seems like a man who might be ready to settling down with his lovely wife by his side and son, who he now has to force through school.

[Harmsway]

Interesting. How would you handle Indy's family?

The same way I'd handle any Indiana Jones recurring characters. See if they fit into the story, and if they clutter it up, leave 'em out of it (Jones can always adventure without son and wife, of course).

Indy seems like a man who might be ready to settling down with his lovely wife by his side and son, who he now has to force through school.

I don't think he's settling down. When Indy takes his hat back at the end indicates the opposite of settling down... that he's going to be the man with the hat for a little while longer. He's not passing that mantle on. The promotional materials for the film (novelization and trading cards) both support that interpretation of the ending, as well.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Ok, it just seems like a writer would have to come up with an obvious excuse to leave them both behind while Indy adventures. I can't really imagine either Marion or Mutt allowing Indy to search for lost artefacts while they fix up bikes and tend bars.

Take for example in KotCS after they survive the waterfall- Indy tells them he has to finish the quest and he'll do it alone, then the next scene they're by his side regardless. Don't get me wrong- I don't want the whole family to come along for every adventure from now on, but I think it's just another story telling hurdle for a sequel.

About the settling down part, I think I'd buy both directions if presented in a sequel, it just seems that Indy would have a lot more to lose now if one of his crazy stunts didn't go to plan.

[Shadow Syndicate]

Amen...The Ark was a radio for speaking to God...A device for speaking to the man downstairs would be interesting...Maybe Vlad the Impaler's i.e the real life dracula, Contract with Lucifer? I think some really great locals in Eastern Eruope and Trukey could be explored with something along those lines. The next Indy has gotta be dark, Temple of Doom is my favorite for that reason. With the other movies, I don't get a real 'evil' creepy vibe...Yeah, the Nazi's were evil...but the thugees had an evil god, human sacrafice, the murder and enslavement of children, drinking blood...Now that's evil...seeing Indy going up against guys like that beat German Soliders who signed up for 'special' duty. imo

[00Twelve]

Ooh- that sounds interesting! It's hard to think of Indy stuff which doesn't follow the Raiders/Crusade mould, but it doesn't have to.

What I'd do with an INDY V and an INDY VI is as follows:

INDY V would be a return to darker waters for Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said that he'd feel more comfortable and would be more capable and interested in tackling the dark waters of TEMPLE OF DOOM... well, we're going to take Indiana Jones back into horror territory. Back in the day, Lucas and Spielberg both tried to do a Hammer Horror homage for INDY III, and so they would draw on that material here. A boldly dark, more clearly supernatural adventure as Indy quests across the continents doing battle with an evil cult of ancient vampires.

And then INDY VI would be the farewell journey. Assuming INDY V is set in 1959 or such, then INDY VI places us in 1960-61. And what better time to reference the 1960s spy craze, which was just about to take over cinemas? Jones finds himself being roped in to help with a government concern - artifact smuggling, being used to support criminal activities (a wink towards Fleming's LIVE AND LET DIE there). But Jones soon finds himself in for more than he bargained for, on a quest that involves the lost gold of Yamas*h*i*ta (darn censor) and the legendary coral palace of the Japanese dragon god, Ryujin.

Speaking of LALD, what would you think about Indy and a vodou-based adventure? Talk about eerie dark TOD-type potential...

[Safari Suit]

I thought this was a lethargic, slapdash bore. More or less DOA and it never really picked up. A couple of nice action scenes.

[marktmurphy]

I was just reading this again; it's the old 'Saucer Men from Mars' script, and it really is funny how many elements survived into Crystal Skull:

http://www.theindyex...y_4_scripts.php

Wedding, college chase, rocket sled, 'return', Conquistadors, New Mexico, ants, waterfalls, Russians, Doomtown, atom bomb, fridge; it's all been there for a while. I think I prefer Crystal Skull slightly; Mutt does add something personal to the story and Indy gets to leave the US which is fairly important I think. Plus the Crystal Skulls are real and theres no silly flying saucers everywhere.
But the Saucer Men script is rather good- it's good fun and feels very Indy.

[jaguar007]

I think they should have ended Indy 4 with evidence of flying saucers, but we should not have seen the alien (left something to the imagination).

Perhaps Indy should have found the remains of a flying saucer that crashed many years earlier. It could be a roundish flying saucer and he could go inside and find the skeleton of its pilot. A humanoid skeleton wearing black pants, white shirt and a black vest

[Judo chop]

I thought this was a lethargic, slapdash bore. More or less DOA and it never really picked up. A couple of nice action scenes.

Unfortunately, I think it

[Harmsway]

Unfortunately, I think it's much more likely that those who adored the film after an initial viewing will later find their opinions drifting towards yours, than the other way around.

I've seen the movie close to 5 or 6 times now, and I have to say, it's generally improved on repeat viewings for me. Not that I think it's some new classic, but I still think it's a decent watch.

Yours is the harshest 'review' that I've seen 'round these parts, Safari, and before I see the film I will don it about my mind and heart like armor to protect them from the piercing spearheads of disappointment.

It's hardly the harshest review I've seen, period, though. The internet has savagely torn KINGDOM apart.

[Judo chop]

I've seen the movie close to 5 or 6 times now, and I have to say, it's generally improved on repeat viewings for me.

You've paid for those viewings, I presume?

If so, really ?

Is it worth ($8.50 tix + $4.00 Cherry Coke + $3.25 Milk Duds) x 5?

That there is such a wide span of opinions on the film I take to mean that there is something about it that fails. If it were

[Johnboy007]

I saw this again on Saturday night. Obviously there wasn't as much sparkle on the second viewing but I still think it's a fine film.

[Harmsway]

I've seen the movie close to 5 or 6 times now, and I have to say, it's generally improved on repeat viewings for me.

You've paid for those viewings, I presume?

Only the first two were theatrical (and I only paid for one of those).

That there is such a wide span of opinions on the film I take to mean that there is something about it that fails.

Sure. I'd never argue the opposite. KINGDOM is a mighty flawed movie.

If it were 'all that', I think the reviews would generally fall to the positive side of mediocre.

Well, to be fair, that's how the critical response was: mediocre-to-good. And it's hard to judge the general public's response.

Rambo first though.

I finally saw that, and your reaction to it will pretty much entirely depend on your love of John Rambo and appreciation for pure carnage.

[Judo chop]

You've paid for those viewings, I presume?

Only the first two were theatrical (and I only paid for one of those).

m