168 replies to this topic

[ACE]

Great stuff. If the poison of this thread has been the root of your antidote and even a vague preponderance to be positive, it's been worth it.

Been called "girly" dodge? That's because you're man enough to take it like an man! You can give it out so you have to be prepared to receive!

You're not some overdressed, hanky-wearing, longhaired, twangy-sounding, unshaven nonce like Brozza Bond.

Hey man, it's only James Bond but I like it!

[Zorin Industries]

Not really a pop at Pi/ss Brosnan's Bond but at the man himself (do I get extra marks, dodge?)

Why oh why did he keep making pronouncements on who the new director should be?

Martin Scorsese (as if)
Quentin Taratino (er, NO!)

and the most worthy of a droog-ish beating

Brett Frickin Ratner.
Oh pur-lease!

Ah mean, booby, git with the programme.

And why did he keep harping on about "getting off the boat from Ireland" and the first film he ever saw was GOLDFINGER. Okay Pierce. We get it. We actually got it the ninth time you relayed that most anecdotal of anecdotes.

[dodge]

Great stuff. If the poison of this thread has been the root of your antidote and even a vague preponderance to be positive, it's been worth it.

Been called "girly" dodge? That's because you're man enough to take it like an man! You can give it out so you have to be prepared to receive!

Not some overdressed, hanky-wearing, longhaired, twangy-sounding, unshaven nonce like Brozza Bond.

Hey man, it's only James Bond but I like it!

Yeah, Zorin too has joined the fray--he's wearing the black hat, I'm wearing the white!--our backs against the wagon wheels as the legions of podders advance. I sure hope they don't get my new girly doll!

[ACE]

Not really a pop at Pi/ss Brosnan's Bond but at the man himself (do I get extra marks, dodge?)

Why oh why did he keep making pronouncements on who the new director should be?

Martin Scorsese (as if)
Quentin Taratino (er, NO!)

and the most worthy of a droog-ish beating

Brett Frickin Ratner.
Oh pur-lease!

Ah mean, booby, git with the programme.

And why did he keep harping on about "getting off the boat from Ireland" and the first film he ever saw was GOLDFINGER. Okay Pierce. We get it. We actually got it the ninth time you relayed that most anecdotal of anecdotes.

Yeah, Putney Frickin High Street gave you an award for the amount of times you mentioned them.

Zorin Industries, for all my bleating about negativity, this thread must seem like a Zen Buddhist temple compared to this thread you tossed posts into like stun grenades having the effect of real ones

[plankattack]

ACE, JUDO, 0012TWELVE...and all you other good critical souls. Thank you. I feared I'd come show up here this morning after a long weekend...and feel as if I were stumbling through a New York City canyon--looking for unpodded survivors. Calling out names: "Plank--are you there? Did they get you?"

Instead, this is finally turning into a frank, honest, ho-bolds barred alternative thread to Judo's. Only I've been called a girl-man. The rest of you have been spared, and I'm pleased. By balancing the ledger like this, I'm encouraged to re-view Brozza's films. And tomorrow I'll be back there with another positive posting.

I'm here, Dodge, I'm here. But I've been trying to avoid any Brozz-critical threads - instead like SC in GF, I want to swim through undetected, duck on head, dinner jacket pressed beneath wetsuit.

I do agree with those that say that sometimes we confuse the man with the scripts and attempt to have the former carry the water for the latter. It's not Brozza's fault that 90s Bond was hell-bent on displaying his humanity, that famous blooming onion of his; but I do lay at his acting feet that I always felt those moments (GE on the beach, TND with Paris) never quite rang true. Conveying emotion is in the eyes (see Sir Rog in TSWLM "when someone's trying to put a bullet in you at 40mph" or words to that effect), but too often Broz had to emote by saying it, in poorly-scripted, rhetoric. I've been consistent in that Bond-Paris just doesn't work for me - too short, too shallow, and all too verbose.

But.......before I get podded, I've also been consistent in saying that Brozz was at his best emotionally when HE SAID NOTHING (TWINE - let's get the weekly defense of that flick in early this week) - "Have you ever lost someone?" and also his demeanour in DAD "Abandoned station for abandoned agents." Very effective with very few words.

Ahhh, the contradictions that are Brozz! And no, that's not a criticism.

[ACE]

I've been trying to avoid any Brozz-critical threads - instead like SC in GF, I want to swim through undetected, duck on head, dinner jacket pressed beneath wetsuit.

Nice one!


Guys/Gals

plankattack, 0012, judo chop et al

I think that garddam dodge has podded us all!

[Judo chop]

I've also been consistent in saying that Brozz was at his best emotionally when HE SAID NOTHING...

...Very effective with very few words.

Which is why, among all the grunting and gargling scenes in which we witness the Brosbond getting injured, his best "in pain" performance is during the torture scene in DAD in which his head is submerged under water!

I guess that was the only way the writers could get him to stop moaning like a 2 bit on coupon night.

[plankattack]

Gosh, Judo, you're harsh. Please share with us, where does it come from......?

[Judo chop]

Plank, why dost thou havest only a mere 226 posts? Your presence feels as if it should be in the 750-800 range. I'd bet your average quality of post rating is remarkable!

[jaguar007]

[quote name='Judo chop' post='727662' date='16 April 2007 - 09:36']You are quite welcome. It seems most complaints filed against the Brozbond are in response to all the melodrama injected into his films. And I would have to agree that they are mostly nauseating. Still, if I could wave a magic wand to do a global

[plankattack]

Plank, why dost thou havest only a mere 226 posts? Your presence feels as if it should be in the 750-800 range. I'd bet your average quality of post rating is remarkable!

The reason I am where I am, is because I am so computer-illiterate I have no idea what that icon means......

[Santa]

I'm 'silly and childish'? I think not.

Well, you have your moments...

Not really a pop at Pi/ss Brosnan's Bond but at the man himself (do I get extra marks, dodge?)

Why oh why did he keep making pronouncements on who the new director should be?

I'm afraid this is probably where my largest problem with Pierce lies. My disdain for Pierce the man colours my feelings for Pierce the Bond. In all honesty, I'm sure he's a very nice man, but he's one of those who, if were to have met him at school or work or anywhere in real life, I would have taken an instant and unjustifiable dislike to. He reminds me the kid at school who got a new pair of Nikes and decided that made him cool so he kept trying to hang out with us even though we kept swatting him away like a fly. It seems to me that Pierce works quite hard to maintain his smooth, suave, sophisticated image, and trying too hard is never cool. It reminds me of my father and his brother, deperately trying to hang on to their youth, tucking their shirts too tightly into their too tight jeans and breathing in, as they say 'Hi' in an ultra sad pseudo-American British accent, as they wear their white socks on display. As a result, to me he comes across as smarmy, falsely self-deprecating, and well annoying. Sinking to sewer-like levels of bitchiness here, his smile is irritating, his voice is irritating, his walk is irritating. He's just one of those I cannot warm to, and I find it impossible to isolate this from his Bond. Indeed I think he purposely 'Bondifies' himself in real life so that's not entirely unreasonable.
As I have now quite comprehensively revealed myself to be an absolute cow, I will leave this thread before someone tries to milk me...

[Major Tallon]

I'm 'silly and childish'? I think not.

Well, you have your moments...

Not really a pop at Pi/ss Brosnan's Bond but at the man himself (do I get extra marks, dodge?)

Why oh why did he keep making pronouncements on who the new director should be?

I'm afraid this is probably where my largest problem with Pierce lies. My disdain for Pierce the man colours my feelings for Pierce the Bond. In all honesty, I'm sure he's a very nice man, but he's one of those who, if were to have met him at school or work or anywhere in real life, I would have taken an instant and unjustifiable dislike to. He reminds me the kid at school who got a new pair of Nikes and decided that made him cool so he kept trying to hang out with us even though we kept swatting him away like a fly. It seems to me that Pierce works quite hard to maintain his smooth, suave, sophisticated image, and trying too hard is never cool. It reminds me of my father and his brother, deperately trying to hang on to their youth, tucking their shirts too tightly into their too tight jeans and breathing in, as they say 'Hi' in an ultra sad pseudo-American British accent, as they wear their white socks on display. As a result, to me he comes across as smarmy, falsely self-deprecating, and well annoying. Sinking to sewer-like levels of bitchiness here, his smile is irritating, his voice is irritating, his walk is irritating. He's just one of those I cannot warm to, and I find it impossible to isolate this from his Bond. Indeed I think he purposely 'Bondifies' himself in real life so that's not entirely unreasonable.
As I have now quite comprehensively revealed myself to be an absolute cow, I will leave this thread before someone tries to milk me...

Too harsh by far, I'm afraid. Someone (apologies, but I forget who) recently commented that Brosnan was very popular in the role and was a great ambassador for the series. I share that sentiment. Brosnan was never my idea of Bond, and some of his mannerisms annoyed me (I can't stand his goofy grin when he picks up Natalya at the end of GE), but, DAD apart, I enjoyed his movies. He cared about the character, worked hard at his portrayal, and wanted to make the best James Bond movies he could. I give him boatloads of credit for that.

[Santa]

Too harsh by far, I'm afraid. Someone (apologies, but I forget who) recently commented that Brosnan was very popular in the role and was a great ambassador for the series. He cared about the character, worked hard at his portrayal, and wanted to make the best James Bond movies he could. I give him boatloads of credit for that.

Yep, you're mostly right - I wouldn't say totally right as I'm not sure his behaviour after DAD could be called that of a 'great ambassador for the series'. He did his best, he did it the way he wanted to, it's just that the things he considered 'Bond' are not the same as the things I consider 'Bond'. I fully accept that's just my opinion and I don't necessarily expect anyone to agree with me, it's just an unfortunate fact that despite my great hopes for him before Goldeneye, every time I've seen him on screen since then, I've found myself groaning in dismay. However, thank God we don't all like the same things as the world would then be a very boring place .

[JLaidlaw]

If I were to have met him at school or work or anywhere in real life, I would have taken an instant and unjustifiable dislike to... his smile is irritating, his voice is irritating, his walk is irritating.

Wow. And there was me thinking this thread was just cruel and sly abuse. I must have been wrong.

[Judo chop]

If I were to have met him at school or work or anywhere in real life, I would have taken an instant and unjustifiable dislike to... his smile is irritating, his voice is irritating, his walk is irritating.

Wow. And there was me thinking this thread was just cruel and sly abuse. I must have been wrong.

Slight correction... Santa isn't being sly. She has plainly stated that her abuse is "unjustifiable". I'd say she's being pretty upfront about it.

For the record, what I've seen of Pierce between the films I have not liked either. One of SJ's comments mentioned his false self-deprication. That's exactly what I see in him off set as well. Particularly when I saw him interview after DAD admist the whole "EON's in a state of paralysis" hubbub. He was practically begging for love from the audience, as if a petition from the fans would save his Bond career.

On the other hand, there is some evidence to believe that Sean Connery can reach deplorable levels of subhumanity, and yet he is still my favorite Bond. So, for that reason I can't go on to say that Pierce's off-camera behavior affects my opinion of him as Bond.

[Santa]

Ahhh, Judo, look at you being all chivalrous. The bloke's right though, I was harsh, but then I meant to be, I wanted to be very clear rather than wishy-washy and vague as I often am. On an everyday basis, I just find Pierce to be a bit of a prat. I don't really sit there with clenched fists while he's on the screen, shouting "I hate him! I hate him!". At the same time, he is also a type that I recognise, I've known people in real life whose mannerisms, appearance, voice or whatever remind me of him, and they are the kind I try to stay away from. The worst thing (and it's no fault of his own, it's a very personal thing) is his way of speaking is just like my father's and I absolutely cannot listen to it. I'll say again, I'm sure he's very nice, he's never hurt anyone, I wish him a happy life but I find him rather laughable as a 'suave, sophisticated man of the world'.

[dodge]

"NO, NO, NO. NO MORE FOREPLAY!" I'm with Santa about the voice. The smooth, purring, Irish lilt isn't my idea of Bond's. And yet the voice might have worked better if the man behind the voice had had a slightly crueller mug and more physical presence. The line itself, I think, is fine. But it needed a Connery, Craig or Dalton to pull it off. It sounds like barroom banter coming out of Brozza.

[Judo chop]

Ahhh, Judo, look at you being all chivalrous.

Santa, if you were to start a

[00Twelve]

Ahhh, Judo, look at you being all chivalrous.

Santa, if you were to start a "Mud Puddle" thread, I would be the first poster to lay my coat in it.

Too late, there's already a tea thread in General Discussion. (Sorry, Joyce!)

[Santa]

Ahhh, Judo, look at you being all chivalrous.

Santa, if you were to start a "Mud Puddle" thread, I would be the first poster to lay my coat in it.

Yep, I think you would.
I've noticed a weird thing. Some members have been complaining that Brozza has been constantly bashed lately, whereas I've noticed the opposite - there have been a number of 'love to Brozza' threads, where anyone who dares to question his Godliness is told they're just trying to be trendy. It has seemed as if he's untouchable lately. For this reason I don't see anything wrong with this kind of thread. I agree with Dodge that it balances the ledger. Anyone who takes on an acting role of any kind, but particularly James Bond, has to accept that they are putting themselves out there for criticism as well as praise. People bashed Laz and Rog for years, now Brozza has to take his fair share.

[Judo chop]

Alexander the Great...

Conan the Barbarian...

Ming the Merciful...

and now Dodge the Equalizer!

Telling people that their opinions are merely unwilled, unreasoned psychological responses to the popular vote is logically fallacious. It

[plankattack]

Yep, I think you would.
I've noticed a weird thing. Some members have been complaining that Brozza has been constantly bashed lately, whereas I've noticed the opposite - there have been a number of 'love to Brozza' threads, where anyone who dares to question his Godliness is told they're just trying to be trendy. It has seemed as if he's untouchable lately. For this reason I don't see anything wrong with this kind of thread. I agree with Dodge that it balances the ledger. Anyone who takes on an acting role of any kind, but particularly James Bond, has to accept that they are putting themselves out there for criticism as well as praise. People bashed Laz and Rog for years, now Brozza has to take his fair share.

I agree. Laz has taken some unbelievable stick from people inside and outside fandom for the last thirty years. So why all of a sudden is Pierce untouchable? And Santa, I don't have a problem with your reasons for not liking him - watching the manner that Broz left the series definitely left a bad taste in my mouth that somewhere deep in my subconscious tickles how I feel about his portrayel of Bond. But Broz has always wanted to come across as some sort of thespian in the Olivier-mould, hence that poncey voice. Seraphim Falls - yeah, that got like a dozen people into the cinema. Sorry for going off here, but this whole "you can't criticize Broz" stuff is completely bo*&Ycks. And I've been trying to take the high road and bite my tongue

But I know why it is how it is. Older fans like myself, forgot how large the percentage of fans is whose first Bond is Broz. And conventional wisdom always says that you have a special place for your first Bond, hence the rather touchy reaction to any criticism.

Me? Roger was my first. Where can I go to have a pop at raised eyebrows and sexist puns that we end up blaming Broz for?

[Harmsway]

Me? Roger was my first. Where can I go to have a pop at raised eyebrows and sexist puns that we end up blaming Broz for?

Yup. Roger often had some terrible dialogue... every bit as filthy and silly as the stuff Brosnan had.

But there is a difference. Roger's Bond didn't ever take himself seriously, so we never had to take the dialogue seriously. If Brosnan's Bond had been nothing but a fun superhero spy (which is what I think his strength was, though I don't think he was that great at that, either), it would have been easier to take.

And Roger Moore could deliver a bad line so much better than Brosnan could. I mean, Moore's Bond says some of the worst things imaginable, but his natural class and elegance somehow colors it and makes it tolerable. Brosnan was capable of no such thing, if you ask me.

[Judo chop]

Agreed Plank.

Personally, I need to get off of Pierce, for good or bad. It's all leaving a bad taste in my mouth and my breath is starting to smell as bad as Pier...

ARGH! You see what is becoming of me!?

Plank my man... start exercising those computer literacy skills of yours and conjure us up a Moore's Eyebrows thread! I'm in!

[JimmyBond]

But there is a difference. Roger's Bond didn't ever take himself seriously, so we never had to take the dialogue seriously. If Brosnan's Bond had been nothing but a fun superhero spy (which is what I think his strength was, though I don't think he was that great at that, either), it would have been easier to take.

Too true. I really enjoyed Brosnan's Bond after his first two films. I felt they had found the right balance between the serious and the silly that it worked, Brosnan's Bond was definately having a good time in the action sequences and that rubbed off on the viewers. However once TWINE rolled around they all wanted to take it so much more seriously, however that didnt work when you still had the Brosnan silliness trying to show it's head.

[plankattack]

And Roger Moore could deliver a bad line so much better than Brosnan could. I mean, Moore's Bond says some of the worst things imaginable, but his natural class and elegance somehow colors it and makes it tolerable. Brosnan was capable of no such thing, if you ask me.

That's a fascinating dichotomy isn't it? Broz drops a clunker and we've got the knife out for Brozz, P & W, Tamahori, MW, Feirstein, MGM, snowboarders, Richard Gere, George Bush, Levi's jeans, organic food, whoever.

Rog drops a clunker and you know what, that's Rog being Rog.......Oh, how the world turns...

You are right, Rog, because he clearly didn't take himself, the character, the movies too seriously, could look at us and say, "Keeping the Britsh end up? - yeah, that was a groaner, wasn't it?" Brozz, with his "it's in my blood to act" routine, was never able as Bond, to do that. Strange really, because he can be charminly irreverant and self-effacing when he tries.

[Harmsway]

That's a fascinating dichotomy isn't it? Broz drops a clunker and we've got the knife out for Brozz, P & W, Tamahori, MW, Feirstein, MGM, snowboarders, Richard Gere, George Bush, Levi's jeans, organic food, whoever.

Rog drops a clunker and you know what, that's Rog being Rog.......Oh, how the world turns...

Well, to be fair, my dislike of Brosnan had almost nothing to do with the cringeworthy one-liners. It had to do with his "serious" moments and the fact that I just didn't particularly care for him, period.

You are right, Rog, because he clearly didn't take himself, the character, the movies too seriously, could look at us and say, "Keeping the Britsh end up? - yeah, that was a groaner, wasn't it?" Brozz, with his "it's in my blood to act" routine, was never able as Bond, to do that. Strange really, because he can be charminly irreverant and self-effacing when he tries.

I quite agree.

[Judo chop]

[quote name='plankattack' post='728176' date='17 April 2007 - 14:29']You are right, Rog, because he clearly didn't take himself, the character, the movies too seriously, could look at us and say, "Keeping the Britsh end up? - yeah, that was a groaner, wasn't it?" Brozz, with his "it's in my blood to act" routine, was never able as Bond, to do that. Strange really, because he can be charminly irreverant and self-effacing when he tries.[/quote]

Or perhaps, more to the point, when he ISN'T trying?

It seems to me that it's in all of his 'attempts' that he fails. In the moments I do enjoy he appears to be having fun and letting go and Bond simply comes to him.

I think Harms and Santa and others might agree that Rog was always having fun and letting go, thus the ease of his portrayal and the effortlessness in which he glides undefiled over all the clunkers he lays beneath his feet.

[Harmsway]

I think Harms and Santa and others might agree that Rog was always having fun and letting go, thus the ease of his portrayal and the effortlessness in which he glides undefiled over all the clunkers he lays beneath his feet.

Quite right. The Bond role for him was entirely about the fun of it all, and it shows. He has a blast, and so do we.