370 replies to this topic

[Turn]

I think for a contemporary casino based thriller, the game makes sense. Bond likes baccarat, roulette and craps but we've seen it enough. DN, TB, OHMSS, FYEO, GE all have had Bond playing and winning. Hold'em would be something new. Not so much by trying to gain the younger crowd, but it's the hot game these days. I've been in Vegas five times this year and the action was all at the poker tables both on the casino floor and behind the velvet ropes and mostly being played by a black-tie crowd.

A couple of things here:

1. Just because something has been done in the past, it's not like the series breaks from tradition very often. Every movie we have a gunbarrel; teaser; exotic credits sequence; "My name is Bond, James Bond"; "vodka martini, shaken, not stirred"; things we have seen before. We even get stunts recycled and plots. Baccarat was probably the least of the things many people remember in a Bond film. They do remember Bond plays it in a black tie. What a lot of people think about with regular poker is sweaty guys with sunglasses and names like Snooky.

2. Whose to say poker will still be hot a year from now? By that time you may be seeing the Texas Hold 'em tables in clearance bins for all we know. That combined with a Bond Begins storyline could prove to be a tough sell and instantly dated. Bond needs to stand out from, not with the crowd.

[Bryce (003)]

There you go. What Bryce said. 

*tips hat*

Thanks Zen. BTW - the explanation in the main story of the game was top notch.

In thinking about Bond and gambling, in DAF Bond playing craps in 1971 in Vegas was what was the "hot game" of the time in that place. Bond playing blackjack in LTK was done to steer away from it always being baccarat and Glen wanted a game that needed no explanation and was familiar to everyone.

So, Hold'em is the new "it" game. Bond (young or old) has always been up with the times when it comes to gaming.

I'm game.

[clublos]

Good point. I'm slowly coming around.

[HellIsHere]

Will it be STRIP-poker? :-)

[Bryce (003)]

Will it be STRIP-poker? :-)

That'll be played later with Vesper.

Vesper: "So James, shall we raise the stakes?"

Bond: *kisses her* "Trust me...My stakes already rising."

[Turn]

[quote name='Bryce (003)' date='26 September 2005 - 17:33'][quote name='zencat' date='26 September 2005 - 10:19']There you go. What Bryce said.

[whiteskwirl]

i have a feeling the movie will be way different than the book. They've staryed a lot before (Moonraker is one example) and Casino Royale doesn't have a lot to it anyway. There's not much that really happens. So they're going to have to add a lot to get a feature-length movie out of it. The card game is one thing that should be off-limits.

[Mister Asterix]

Reeling off a long winning streak in poker is far more plausible to me than doing it in baccarat.  In poker, you could combine betting well on good hands with artful bluffing on poor hands, and keep winning in that fashion for a long time.  (Sure, it'd take immense skill to pull it off, but this is Bond, right?    However, in baccarat, like blackjack, you will lose at some point because you simply get dealt worse cards than the dealer.  And there is really nothing that Bond or any other gambler in the world could do about that.

Excellent point, Spoon. When broken down Baccarat is just an advanced version of High Card. Not a terrible amount of skill needed.

Exactly - live or die on the flip of a card, without skill, just accident / fate. I seem to be missing something because that's what I thought Casino Royale (some book or other) was intending to convey. Perhaps I can't read.

[mra]Yes, but that element exists in poker also, does it not. Luck and skill. Obviously depends on the script, but the

[Sam Fisher]

This is strange news. Being a blackjack player myself I always saw it somewhat similiar to Baccrat. I'm not all too goof with poker but whatever, I'm sure the "writers" know what they;re doing.

Maybe it's just a possibility and not really finalized?

[Gri007]

Did Hold'em exist 20 year ago, if we see Bond play Le Chiffre in his younger day. Cus if it didn't then obviosly the story that was on Shatterhands website is false.

[Captain Indigo]

Nooooo

[WC]

I wonder why Bond and Le Chiffre didn't just play Top Trumps?

[DLibrasnow]

Why don't they just move the film to America, hire George Clooney to play Bond, and then have Tommy Lee Jones play Le Chiffre?  That would fit more into the Poker scene than James Bond would.

Completely agree....,poker lacks sophistication. It smacks to me of just another example of the Americanization of Bond. Lets make Bond a CIA agent while they are at and call him Jimbo Bond.

[Whalltt]

Hated this news the first moment I read it.

It seems they are always looking for any reason, as small as it is, to make changes to the original story in the novel.

Dammit! This is the last FLEMING book to adapt, and still they have to change, change, change ...

I keep thinking on all the books. What magnificent movies they'd make if well adapted, in the original order.

This is our last chance to read the opening credits " **** as James Bond 007 in Ian Fleming's ..." and they will make it everything but Ian Fleming's.

They're changing the game, they'll change the torture scene, the carpet beatter will be something else for whatever reason, Vesper will not be named Vesper because nowadays there aren't women with that name, and so on...

I'm overreacting, but I'm sick of them messing things up!
Still, the game is the centerpiece of the movie. Maybe it isn't all lost.

[Bryce (003)]

Completely agree....,poker lacks sophistication.

You've clearly never played high-stakes in a VIP lounge. It's on par with any elegant setting and those that play are serious and dedicated.

Get thee to a casino.

[DLibrasnow]

So how does one play poker?

I must have missed that game when I last visited France back in 1998.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

My knee-jerk reaction to this is...

Gah.

Valid points have been made here on the note of poker requiring more skill, but let's face it: They only did it because it's the 'in' thing to do. I never understood the whole poker craze (still don't, frankly), and I don't understand why it would have been so difficult to just leave the game as baccarat.

Perhaps in the precredits we'll see young James lose all of his pocket money to 006, 'Boothy and Penny in the canteen at lunch hour over a game.

[Mister Asterix]

...but let's face it: They only did it because it's the 'in' thing to do...

[mra]I

[Bondian]

I've got agree with Zencat, Mister Asterix and Bryce here.

We're talking about poker, James Bond style. And as far as I know, you can win or lose a lot in a very short space of time. I know, I was lousy at cards.

Just imagine all the cool Pervis and Wade gags...

Le Chiffre "do you 'poker', Mr Bond?!".

Bond ( looking at Vesper ) "I don't think I've had the pleasure!"

I have a feeling that the Casino will not be set in France.

Cheers,


Ian

[Jim]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' date='26 September 2005 - 17:50'][quote name='Jim' date='26 September 2005 - 11:52'][quote name='Mister Asterix' date='26 September 2005 - 16:51'][quote name='Spoon' date='26 September 2005 - 11:46']Reeling off a long winning streak in poker is far more plausible to me than doing it in baccarat.

[zencat]

True of Snap!, too. Might as well play that, if plebian games it must be.

What next - put him in a Fiat Panda or...?

Oh.

LOL.

[Fixer]

Poker is so out of character, they might as well be playing hearts or spades. Or perhaps a competitve game of Uno

Yes! But make it Uno Attack!, specially modified by Q, of course.

[Tarl_Cabot]

OK I thought about this at lunch and now I think it sucks!

EVERYONE plays poker!! That's why a Bacarat game would be so much more intersting, because I don't know how to play and neither does most of the audience....I can watch poker on tv twice a week!

[zencat]

EVERYONE plays poker!!..

Not against a dangerous homicidal megalomaniac for millions of dollars in an exotic casino in South Africa. That's what makes it Bond.

[Jim]

EVERYONE plays poker!!..

Not against a dangerous homicidal megalomaniac for millions of dollars in an exotic casino in South Africa. That's what makes it Bond.

You haven't met my wife's father, have you?

[Tarl_Cabot]

EVERYONE plays poker!!..

Not against a dangerous homicidal megalomaniac for millions of dollars in an exotic casino in South Africa. That's what makes it Bond.

True but even other poker games like Omaha require more skill than Hold'em let alone bacarat.Also, I've always wanted to bacarat at Bellogio because it's the exotic table where few dare to risk their chips...Anyway,*sigh* poker it is...my childhood is raped again!

[Sam Fisher]

What about SMERSH?

That's a key element in the novel, are the writers going to change that?

[Jim]

What about SMERSH?

That's a key element in the novel, are the writers going to change that?

SMERSH is a collective of anarchist hackers and Le Chiffre is not a person but a sentient computer virus gone out of control that Bond has to beat at shove ha'penny (or whatever this is) to prevent it taking over every frickin' computer in the world muh-hah-haha.

Well, I've read considerably more stupid things this afternoon...

[Agent 76]

I would be more excited to see who the new Bond is, and the rest of the cast, not this!





ps: but that's just me.

[Spoon]

In between Bourne and Rounders, I think the concept behind Casino Royale is to emulate Matt Damon films as closely as possible. Bond will be a young, misunderstood mathematical genius... with a Siamese twin brother who wants to become an actor... and whose other three brothers were all killed in World War II... and Bond's mother (played by Diana Rigg) is going to receive all of their death notices on the same day!

Let's see the continuity mavens try to straighten out that one!!

No, but seriously, I think this is the right way to play this cinematically. Getting bailed out at the last minute by luck is one thing (and has happened to Bond many times). But, going into a situation relying on luck to carry one through from beginning to end is not really a "heroic" thing to do, at least if your hero is supposed to be as skilled, as smart and as superior as Bond is. There has to be an element of strategy to the card game, and the sense that Bond wins because of something he did that an ordinary person would be incapable of doing.

Edited by Spoon, 26 September 2005 - 07:29 PM.