335 replies to this topic

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow



Raymond Benson identifies Cleese's character in DAD as Maj. Boothroyd

After further review, Raymond Benson is an idiot.

Lee rules.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Jriv71


After further review, Raymond Benson is an idiot.

Lee rules.

I agree on both counts.

[JackChase007]

As do I. The only true Bond writer will forever be Ian Fleming, just as the only TRUE M will forever be Bernard Lee (it was just such perfect casting).

[Blue Eyes]

Wow now we're bashing Raymond Benson, aren't we smart?

c) Bond producer Micheal Wilson stated in a 1981 interview that they did not intend to recast Sir Miles but either reintroduce an existing character or introduce a new character. This was as a sign of respect for Lee.

I'd like to see a transcript of this interview before I would consider giving it any credibility. The only material I have seen from any of the producers is that they had decided not to recast M for that movie. I've never seen an interview where they say they'll introduce a new character, and especially not one where they reference Sir Miles.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
Wow now we're bashing Raymond Benson, aren't we smart?



I'd like to see a transcript of this interview before I would consider giving it any credibility. The only material I have seen from any of the producers is that they had decided not to recast M for that movie. I've never seen an interview where they say they'll introduce a new character, and especially not one where they reference Sir Miles.

Benson is a really easy target, almost as easy as Gardner.
As for the 1981 interview if anyone has a scanner (or knows where I can access one) I can scan the pages.

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
Wow now we're bashing Raymond Benson, aren't we smart?

You don't have to get nasty. What, are you and Benson related? I'm sorry if I've offended you.

Hey, listen. The idea that Cleese's character is the same as Llewelyn's, even though they shared the stage, is stupid! That's like putting Dalton and Brosnan in the same film, and calling them both Bond. Cleese can't be Boothroyd, that's just plain stupid. Sorry, Raymond.

If you want Brown to be Hargreaves as "M", fine. I disagree that he was, but there's no proof either way. And I disagree, hoping that you're right. I didn't like Brown at all. For me he was not "M". They SHOULD'VE changed his name. The problem is, they didn't. Like I said earlier, if they wanted to honor Lee, they should've mentioned the passing of Messervy. If you're right about Hargreaves, well, that really sucks as a way to honor Lee, that he was gone AND forgotten.

[Jriv71]

A bizarre Bernard Lee thing: Have you ever seen 'The Spy Who Came in From the Cold'? Great book (LeCarre), great film. Lee has a small part as a shopkeeper who gets the **** kicked out of him by the main character (Leamas.) What's odd is that it's also from 1962(B&W). Maybe it's just me but, he's SO "M" that it's wierd to see him as anything but...or to see anyone else as "M".

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Jriv71

Cleese can't be Boothroyd, that's just plain stupid.  Sorry, Raymond.

Maybe Benson privately pictures the Q of his DIE ANOTHER DAY novelization as being the same character as played all those years by Desmond Llewelyn, i.e. the Cleese character doesn't exist. Obviously, when writing fiction you don't have to factor in the availability of actors.

[Jriv71]

I guess. But since I haven't read it (I stopped after Gardner), does he have them in the same scene together at any time, maybe in the TWINE novelization?

[Loomis]

No.

[Jriv71]

Fine, I'm the idiot. He's just lazy.

[Jriv71]

But then how did Benson 'identify' Cleese's character in DAD as Maj. Boothroyd, as was posted earlier. (Please forgive me if this was talked about earlier, this thing is 9 pages long...)

[Loomis]

Hang on, you edited your post after my "No" reply. I don't know about the TWINE novelization as I haven't read it.

"But then how did Benson 'identify' Cleese's character in DAD as Maj. Boothroyd, as was posted earlier."

Like I said, maybe the Cleese character doesn't actually exist in Benson's DAD novelization. I can't remember whether Q is identified as Boothroyd in that book, but if he is then it's safe to assume that Benson pictured the Desmond Llewelyn character for his Q rather than John Cleese.

[Jriv71]

Fair enough, I'm not bothered by the film Q-R thing. All that stuff is clear. Two different characters, two different Q's. Maybe I should start reading Benson.

I miss Bernard Lee.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by al
Wait! As I've stated numerous times on these boards, when Bond asked Cleese if he was 'R', he was calling Cleese a recordskeeper or librarian.  

This would have been a rather nasty joke at Cleese's expense, that all three of them would have gotten.  Obviously, most audience members didn't.  These two fellows Desmond, and Cleese are the two highest(best?) engineers in british intelligence/government etc.  

Benson claims that Major Boothroyd doesn't retire, and despite who portrays Q/Boothroyd in the movies, Boothroyd is the character that is refered to in any movie as 'Q'.

Here is the first mention of the Benson version of events. It appears on page three of this thread.

[Jriv71]

Now, that can't be right. Cleese is a different guy. Still "Q" as a title, but not Boothroyd, as they were in the same film. Cleese can't be Boothroyd. That's goofy. To paraphrase Loomis, if Benson wants to write in the novels, that it's still Boothroyd, fine, it doesn't matter which actor dies. But cinematically Llewelyn/Boothroyd trained Cleese. Cleese took over. Period.

The M thing is just a little more cloudy...

[DLibrasnow]

Don't blame me, I think Benson is an idiot also.

[Jriv71]

Good enough. Are his books any good? I've only read Gardner's. (And Fleming's.)

[DLibrasnow]

There is quite a lot of redundancy in his prose, but on the whole it is okay.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Jriv71

The M thing is just a little more cloudy...

Yes, the whole M thing will be debated until eternity by 007 fans.

[JackChase007]

Know what? I actually think I'm going to start to imagine Brown's M as Hargreaves from now on - it's insulting for them to think that he could possibly be a strong successor to Lee. Then again, I haven't watched a single Bond movie with Brown in a long time...

[Jriv71]

Now, there's an idea. I know that when I watch Diamonds are Forever, I pretend that Bond is played by Sean Connery, not that fat guy they found. I also imagine that the script doesn't suck.

[JackChase007]

Wow - that's an even better idea! Than maybe I'll like the movie even more now!!!

[Dr Noah]

"Now, there's an idea. I know that when I watch Diamonds are Forever, I pretend that Bond is played by Sean Connery, not that fat guy they found. I also imagine that the script doesn't suck"

There are worse movies than DAF... LTK for one, at least DAF featured James Bond

[DLibrasnow]

I have never been fond of DAF. Sean Connery looked a lot better 12 years later in "Never Say Never Again". I think it is better than TMWTGG and MR though.

[Jriv71]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I have never been fond of DAF. Sean Connery looked a lot better 12 years later in "Never Say Never Again". I think it is better than TMWTGG and MR though.

I have it as #20 on my list(out of 20). MR had a good first half, and TMWTGG had a decent first half and good face-off with Scaramanga. Lee saved this movie. (Christopher, not Bernard.) Must be something in the bloodlines...weren't they cousins?

[Dr Noah]

"I have never been fond of DAF. Sean Connery looked a lot better 12 years later in "Never Say Never Again"."

True, but it was a fun little movie. Connery looked awesome on top of that lift.

[JackChase007]

Originally posted by Jriv71
Lee saved this movie.  (Christopher, not Bernard.)  Must be something in the bloodlines...weren't they cousins?

No, they weren't. Christopher Lee is the first cousin of IAN FLEMING. In fact, Fleming asked his cousin if he would consider playing Dr. No, which he obviously refused. That would've been very interesting, though, had he taken the role... But then again, we never would have had Joseph Wiseman...

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by JackChase007


No, they weren't.  Christopher Lee is the first cousin of IAN FLEMING.  In fact, Fleming asked his cousin if he would consider playing Dr. No, which he obviously refused.  That would've been very interesting, though, had he taken the role...  But then again, we never would have had Joseph Wiseman...

Joseph Wiseman is one of my favorite James Bond villains...along with Max Zorin.

[Blue Eyes]

Benson claims that Major Boothroyd doesn't retire, and despite who portrays Q/Boothroyd in the movies, Boothroyd is the character that is refered to in any movie as 'Q'.

And where exactly is this claimed by Benson?