335 replies to this topic

[BONDFINESSE 007]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


Joseph Wiseman is one of my favorite James Bond villains...along with Max Zorin.

i have two zorin and carver

[Dr Noah]

Well, I guess that the "Q" in Benson's book might well be the original one. I know that "DAD" was supposed to be a novelisation but I read somewhere that Benson books, are like Gardeners before him are based on the literary rather then cinematic Bond.

I.E. that though the M in the books is female, the character may or may not be the female M seen in the movies. The same might be true of Q, the Q in the books might never have retired. The problem lies when these writers try and marry their literary univerise with the cinematic one.

[kevrichardson]

If "Q" in Benson is base on the literary as opposed to the cinematic Bond . The that makes him Major Boothroyd. Who was the "Armourer" in Dr.No ,both literary and cinematic. Peter Burton played him in Dr.No . Unavailble for "From Russia With Love" . Layed by Desmond Llewelyn in every subsequent Bond except "Live and Let Die" .

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
Well, I guess that the "Q" in Benson's book might well be the original one.  I know that "DAD" was supposed to be a novelisation but I read somewhere that Benson books, are like Gardeners before him are based on the literary rather then cinematic Bond.

I.E. that though the M in the books is female, the character may or may not be the female M seen in the movies.  The same might be true of Q, the Q in the books might never have retired.  The problem lies when these writers try and marry their literary univerise with the cinematic one.

Yes, like Gardner's novelization of "License to Kill" when he had Leiter meeting the same fate as he did in Flemings LALD and the chapter was entitled "Lightning does strike twice"

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow


Yes, like Gardner's novelization of "License to Kill" when he had Leiter meeting the same fate as he did in Flemings LALD and the chapter was entitled "Lightning does strike twice"

So which parts of Felix Leiter's body were attacked by sharks in that book. Then there should be nothing left of poor old Felix. Now that was rather funny. Who said Gardner did not run out of steam before 1996! I can't stop laughing at this one!!!

[Dr Noah]

"So which parts of Felix Leiter's body were attacked by sharks in that book"

Apparantly the shark bit off Leiter's artifical leg in the novelisation

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
"So which parts of Felix Leiter's body were attacked by sharks in that book"
Apparantly the shark bit off Leiter's artifical leg in the novelisation

So he was not really injured after all!!! Just thrown off balance!! I would guess that Gardner was truly out of creative juices by this point. Perhap's Benson should have come on board as Literary Bond's writer with Gardner as literary consultant.

[Dr Noah]

"I would guess that Gardner was truly out of creative juices by this point"

Oh, to be fair to Gardner, the movie really did paint him into a corner about this, on the one hand Leiter's injuries happened in "Live And Let Die" and were refered to in every subsequant reapperence of the (literary) character and on the other hand he wasn't given the freedom to re-write the movie plot.

It was probably the best anyone could have come up with.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
"I
Oh, to be fair to Gardner, the movie really did paint him into a corner about this, on the one hand Leiter's injuries happened in "Live And Let Die" and were refered to in every subsequant reapperence of the (literary) character and on the other hand he wasn't given the freedom to re-write the movie plot.
It was probably the best anyone could have come up with.

Keeping in mind that Bond had "nailed" Leiter's daughter "Ceder Leiter" , in "For Special Services . I guess Gardner was truly in a creative bind". Especially since the event of "Live and Let Die" happen 34 years before "LTK". And when "For Special Services" was published it was 29 years later . Both Bond and Felix Leiter should have been on the retirement list of both there respective services . So the shake attack would have been moot since Felix would have been in a wheel chair.

[DLibrasnow]

I remember fans at the time saying they wished Gardner had just ignored the fact that Felix's injuries had already occured in the literary world of 007.
On the whole I liked Gardners work, I even wrote him to tell him so (and got a nice letter back from him) but this LTK novelization incident had me shaking my head in bewilderment.

[Dr Noah]

"I remember fans at the time saying they wished Gardner had just ignored the fact that Felix's injuries had already occured in the literary world of 007"

But he couldn't really have ignored it, could he? Thats the basic problem of these novelizations, they are trying to marry two contadictory worlds and usually end up disapointing the two sets of fans.

[DLibrasnow]

I think the view was that he should have stepped away from the literary Bond and just done a straight novelization of the movie.

[kevrichardson]

well there really was not much let for Gardner too do. At least Felix survived te 2 shake attacks . He must be the only "human" alive too do that. This just proves why i need read the film novelizations in the first place . Poor Felix , he is the most under use literary side kick known to man . Sadly he is the only one who has such a wealth on material, Fleming took great care to make him Bond's equal in the novels . and to make the friendship between the too genuine.

[DLibrasnow]

I would avoid the film novelizations. I haven't touched one since LTK. I prefer to be surprised when I enter the movie theater. Now if Broz could make an interestin, fun Bond movie then I may look forward again to seeing the new Bond pictures.

[Dr Noah]

Poor old Gardner, everything kept passing him by, heck he didn't even know that "Hargreaves was "M" during the '80s!

[stromberg]

And now "R to Q", the continuing story of an MI6 employee who seems to have no name...

I avoided to read this thread for a long time. When I saw that it was always on top of the "new posts" lists, I knew there was some strange discussion going on in here.

I finally found time to read through the whole ten pages that it has until now, but I'm still confused. Not that I have no opinion on that subject. For me TCPBJC was Q's assistant who got the nickname "R" by 007 and was promoted to be the new "Q" after his predecessor (whom he quotes) retired, died or was fired. Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves in TSWLM and "M" in the other Bond movies he was in. I have always loved the idea that Admiral H. was promoted to be the new "M" after Sir Miles Messervy (i.e. Bernhard Lee's "M") retired, died or was fired. But I was never sure about it. Could also be that they just replaced one actor by another.

Now this thread seems to drift away into nowhere and I still don't know right from wrong. And I don't know what to believe any more. They way I see it, mostly everyone involved in this has agreed to disagree and everybody's still entitled to his opinion. Maybe the whole discussion should be postponed until the inernational meet-up, where we can all figure this out by the help of a few pints...

But one thing has always puzzled me: In the Q-scene in TSWLM, "M" clearly adresses to General Gogol "After you, Alexis" with Gogol responding "No, after you, Miles". But in every other Bond movie that has General Gogol in it, he is always credited as "General Anatol Gogol". Is Gogol in TSWLM a different person from the Gogol in the other movies?

Maybe, there were twin brothers? Maybe, the one in TSWLM was an impostor? Maybe, Admiral Hargreaves also had a twin brother who happened to become the new "M" one day? If so, what happened to Admiral Hargreaves after TSWLM? Is he the new General Gogol? Questions, questions, questions... Tune in next time when we'll hear Miss Moneypenny say "I wonder what the new 'M' would say if I spoke of him as an 'old man'."

:D

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by stromberg

Now this thread seems to drift away into nowhere and I still don't know right from wrong. And I don't know what to believe any more. They way I see it, mostly everyone involved in this has agreed to disagree and everybody's still entitled to his opinion. Maybe the whole discussion should be postponed until the inernational meet-up, where we can all figure this out by the help of a few pints...

I think you believe whatever makes you happiest or sits best with you.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
Poor old Gardner, everything kept passing him by, heck he didn't even know that "Hargreaves was "M" during the '80s!  

Perhaps he was too busy writing the continuation novels and watching the films for the novelizations of them . Too turn in and watch "James Bond jr". Too confirm which "M" was which.

[rafterman]

I believe Gardner stopped watching the films after he began writing the books and he only did two novelizations, LTK and GE...probably didn't even know there was a new guy playing M...

[Dr Noah]

"Perhaps he was too busy writing the continuation novels and watching the films for the novelizations of them . "

Still, at least Raymond Benson is spared all this now!

[DLibrasnow]

Not such a bad thing.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Dr Noah

Still, at least Raymond Benson is spared all this now!

Benson had a very hard pair of shoes to fill. I never read a novel , but had been persuaded to start on ("ZMT") . So i am just as shocked as every one. We have to remember that what ever happened . Wherther we like it or not it was a "business" decision. THat will not or does not make it right. "Glidrose" or now the Ian Fleming foundation has ****ED -up before . Recall it's attempts to keep the continuation novels alive with "Colonel Sun" by Robert Markham(Amis) . So yes Benson is now spared this .

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
 Benson had a very hard pair of shoes to fill. I never read a novel , but had been persuaded to start on ("ZMT") . So i am just as shocked as every one. We have to remember that what ever happened . Wherther we like it or not it was a "business" decision. THat will not or does not make it right.  "Glidrose" or now the Ian Fleming foundation has ****ED -up before . Recall it's attempts to keep the continuation novels alive with "Colonel Sun" by Robert Markham(Amis) . So yes Benson is now spared this .

Who knows how Glidrose works. I read an interview with Kingsley Amis about 20 years ago. He apparently wrote a Bond book with Bond as a young man in the Navy (kind of a prequel if you like) and when he showed it to Glidrose they apparently told him that if he ever showed the novel to anyone they would haul him into court.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow

Who knows how Glidrose works. I read an interview with Kingsley Amis about 20 years ago. He apparently wrote a Bond book with Bond as a young man in the Navy (kind of a prequel if you like) and when he showed it to Glidrose they apparently told him that if he ever showed the novel to anyone they would haul him into court.

With all these Bond book written by people like Kingsley Amis . It's a shame that "Glidrose" has no direction as to where it what Bond too go. I have express the belief that Literary Bond is going the way of "Sherlock Holmes" or even the horrible "Star Wars" continuation novels. Benson had several things in his favor . Most of all he is a "Bond Fan" and knows his Fleming. I once e-mailed Ian Fleming Foundation website. Regarding the future publication of "Colonel Sun" . I got a return , that stated no further details on the book. So given that this year is the 50th annver. of "Casino Royale". Glidrose /IFP may feel the need to concertrate on just the Fleming Bond novels.

[DLibrasnow]

That is how I understand it kev...Glidrose is attempting to direct more attention to the original books, and one has to admit that the new artwork on the cover of the reissues here in the US is pretty great.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
That is how I understand it kev...Glidrose is attempting to direct more attention to the original books, and one has to admit that the new artwork on the cover of the reissues here in the US is pretty great.

i understand since the retirement of Peter Jansen-Smith in 2001 . The Fleming family is running things at what was formerly "Glidrose" now called "Ian Fleming Publications" .

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
i understand since the retirement of Peter Jansen-Smith in 2001 . The Fleming family is runnning thing a what was formerlty "Glidrose" now called "Ian Fleming Publications" .

That sounds about right...

[DLibrasnow]

I'm posting a post here so that those involved in the burgeoning discussion on the Roger Moore forum about the whole M issue (that was discussed to ad nauseum here) can look over the thread here...

[DLibrasnow]

Does anyone know what R's (or the new Q) actual name is?

[Blue Eyes]

He doesn't have one. Eon are extremely unlikely to give him one (how long did it take for Boothroyd to get a mention?), so the only place that one may really appear is in the continuation novels. And who knows how far off they are.