335 replies to this topic

[Dr Noah]

"My proof that Bernard Lee and Robert Brown both play Sir Miles comes from For Your Eyes Only where it was said that M was on leave. M was not retiring. M was not dead. M was not fired. M was not replaced. He was on leave."

Bernard Lee was meant to be in For Your Eyes Only, but ill health made him drop out of THIS movie, but he could of returned in the next one as M (if he never died in real life, that is). He almost wasn't in LALD for similar health reasons. The role of M was cut back in FYEO with his part split between the Cheif of Staff and Q.

When Brown came on board I guess you could either see him as being the Lee characte or a new M. I'd personally see him as a different person, simply because Brown was ineffective in the part and so cheapened the character, but that is just my opinion.

[kevrichardson]

"M" in the later Moore /Dalton Bond's as played by Robert Brown is the same character as that by Bernard Lee.

[DLibrasnow]

Originally posted by Dr Noah
[BI'd personally see him as a different person, simply because Brown was ineffective in the part and so cheapened the character, but that is just my opinion. [/B]

These are my feelings exactly, but it seems there are strong views on both sides of the argument so it really is whichever makes you feel the more comfortable because there is no real solid evidence to support either contention.

[Dr Noah]

""M" in the later Moore /Dalton Bond's as played by Robert Brown is the same character as that by Bernard Lee."

Is there anythng on-screen which supports or controdicts this? I'm just curious as the Brown M is more unsympathic and unlikable than the original.

[DLibrasnow]

Dr. Noah -
There are two schools of thought with not enough evidence on either side to support or contradict the other.
One school of thought (which I personally happen to subscribe to) has Robert Brown playing Admiral Hargreaves (a character the actor played in TSWLM) who is promoted into the post of M.
The other has Lee and Brown playing tha same character.
While the notion that Lee and Brown played the same character may seem silly to us, we must respect those people who support this notion.

[Felix_Leiter]

The M actor switch really didn't affect me too much, now the Joe Don Baker character switch...

[Dr Noah]

Thankfully no one here seems to have watched that old British spy series called "Callan" with Edward Woodward, where he had several "M figures" throughout the series, all known by the code name "Hunter", as I could imagine the endless arguements over which one was which...

[marktmurphy]

What are the chances of having two Admirals as head of MI6 in succession?- its not a naval department; its a ministry.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by marktmurphy
What are the chances of having two Admirals as head of MI6 in succession?- its not a naval department; its a ministry.

The British Secret Intelligence Service (Secret Service) is not a ministry , it a agency of the British government . It would not be uncommon for a military person (general or Admiral to head it.) .In america the head of the N.S.A is a Armed Forces general. Brown's "M' was the same as Lee's "M" . If fact they look alike. As to which "M" is which ,read the MKKBB magazine www.ianfleming.org. it's part of the alt.fan.james bond faq. This will drive the nail in the coffin of Admiral Hargraves . It states that Robert Brown was Sir Miles Messervy. This is from the Ian Fleming Foundation ,by the way. It's under the question "why is the female "M" called "M".

[DLibrasnow]

Mi6 stands for MILITARY intelligence department six.

[DLibrasnow]

I still believe that Robert Brown played Admiral Hargreaves and not Sir Miles. Where is MKKBB's evidence??
If Brown did play Sir Miles then who did Bernard Lee play?

[Dr Noah]

In which Fleming novel was M called Sir Miles Messervy? I've heard M called by that name before, but I'm not sure where it first crops up. Could anyone help?

[DLibrasnow]

I'd have to look back through Flemings works. I know that the character is referred to by his name in OHMSS, but I'm not sure if this was the first reference.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Fleming finally "reveals" M as Admiral Sir Miles Messervy in The Man With The Golden Gun. Not too sure why he left it so long in naming him.

By the way, how do you pronounce his last name?

Is it Messer-vy, or Mes-servy?

[Mister Asterix]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow (edited)
If Brown did play Sir Miles then who did Bernard Lee play?

Sir Miles.

Originally posted by Dr. Noah
Bernard Lee was meant to be in For Your Eyes Only, but ill health made him drop out of THIS movie, but he could of returned in the next one as M (if he never died in real life, that is). He almost wasn't in LALD for similar health reasons. The role of M was cut back in FYEO with his part split between the Cheif of Staff and Q.

Actually, No. Bernard Lee died right before his scenes were to be filmed. That's when the decision to have Moneypenny say 'M is on leave' occured.

[Blue Eyes]

I thought he died after the release of FYEO?

[Blofeld's Cat]

I heard it the way Mr* described it, and I gather it's the reason why they had no time to recast the role.

[DLibrasnow]

I also heard it the way Mr * described it

[Mister Asterix]

I just looked at The James Bond Bedside Companion to check my facts, and it says:

But supposedly, this substitution for M was made at the last minute. Bernard Lee passed away just before his scenes were to have been shot.

- Page 231, The James Bond Bedside Companion

[Dr Noah]

"But supposedly"?, I guess even he doesn't know for certain what happened, I wonder who does? You would have thought a proper sequence of events could be established after all this time.

[DLibrasnow]

He died before his scenes were shot for FYEO. They didn't want to rush the casting of such an important role so that is why have all those other M-like characters in FYEO (Chief of Staff Tanner, Secretary etc.)

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
He died before his scenes were shot for FYEO. They didn't want to rush the casting of such an important role so that is why have all those other M-like characters in FYEO (Chief of Staff Tanner, Secretary etc.)

Are you sure about that. I understand that he pasted away during pre-production. But i agree with the second part of your statement as too how "important " role it is . No need to rush out for a re-placement.

[Dr Noah]

It is a pity that they didn't replace the M character with Geoffry Keene's Minister of Defence, after all, he was pretty much a mainstay of the series during the late seventies and eighties.

[kevrichardson]

Well since we have John Clesse , why don't they revive the Minister of Silly Walks . He could be both "Q" and "M" .

[Luis007]

i

[DLibrasnow]

I don't think there is any doubt that Cleese plays the "Quartermaster" in "Die Another Day" the real discussion in this thread seems to be if he ever played a character with the actual title of R, or, wether the R designation was just a joke by 007.
Believe it or not, but some people insist that R is the actual official job title of the character who acts as assistant to Q.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I don't think there is any doubt that Cleese plays the "Quartermaster" in "Die Another Day" the real discussion in this thread seems to be if he ever played a character with the actual title of R, or, wether the R designation was just a joke by 007.
Believe it or not, but some people insist that R is the actual official job title of the character who acts as assistant to Q.

Look who cares , it's been long established that Cleese would take over as "Q" . AS too who he is is "moot" .it' is his role now.

[thuffner]

I must admit I was comfused of the switch. But DAD cleared everything up nicely.

[thuffner]

EDIT: Oops! Sorry double post.

[thuffner]

I am glad they kept the Q title and didn't switch over to R. Q sounds a lot more sophisticated.