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The Sony leak...PLEASE do NOT provide link(s)


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#91 MattofSteel

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:27 AM

A collection of observations.

 

A) These leaks are tremendously unfortunate. Those responsible should be prosecuted to the law's fullest extent.

 

B ) The content in the leaks ultimately isn't that revealing. Two of my favourite Bond films are Casino Royale and Skyfall. I basically knew them major beat for major beat before I ever saw them in a theatre - much of the information discussed in these emails is far more granular. I've read all of it and couldn't begin to tell you how it fits together in terms of a cohesive plot.

 

C) The major concern of the leak - "the overall plot and villain's identity/motivations," let's call it - aren't that surprising. Given details considered non-spoiler (title, character names) that we already know, I'd go so far as saying this outcome wasn't only guessable - it was likely. Personally, I can't say it would have been the direction I'd have taken it - quite not, in fact - but I also can't say I'm not interested to see it attempted.

 

There are Bond films that rock the boat and Bond films that don't. The best ones tend to be the most disruptive for the character himself. Few "boilerplate Bonds" tend to make it into the upper echelons of regard when the entire series is considered, save for perhaps Goldfinger (which is, in my opinion, severely underrated for its no-nonsense treatment of Bond's character. An utterly direct and unmasked portrayal of his core character, in fact).

 

If you'd asked me on December 4th what the worst possible angle they could take with "SPECTRE" was, I might have said "the angle I just read about in those leaks." Sitting here tonight, I don't feel the same way. We've had plenty of boilerplate Bonds. I'm relishing the opportunity to see true disruption from talented creators, performers, filmmakers who are actually (more than) capable of handling it properly.

 

DISCLAIMER (to be considered, November 2015): If it ends up stinking, I hereby revise the entirety of the above to read, "Great execution can't save a bad idea."

 

D) Sorry 'C' was so long.

 

E) RE: the validity of these leaks. I'm surprised it's a debate. The fact that they're (apparently) sourced from the same origins responsible for other masses of (seemingly) verified links aside, I can only consider my own instinctual response.

 

Having worked enough in the industry to understand how the script development process works, I can tell you there's absolutely nothing out of the ordinary about the style, tone, or construction of the feedback in these leaks. If they're fakes, they're excellent. They read almost suspiciously too well. They resemble countless script note emails I've seen, heard about, or - in several cases - received myself. All written by individuals at (minimum) a producer level.

 

One's title and stature in life in no way reflect one's capacity for using proper grammar or communicating professionally. The discrepancy between those two things can often be startling, actually. And that's a truth that extends far beyond the film business.



#92 west

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:35 AM

Following the reactions on here, curiosity got the better of me.

From what I gather of the plot it sounds like, as somebody previously described it, a kind of 'fan fiction'. Not meaning that I don't believe it is real, but it sounds like a possible plot that a fan has made up and not an actual plot that will be cannon. Which is a bit of a concern to be honest.

There are a few points that worry me, but it seems that this is all based on an early draft, and most of the points are brought up as 'issues' the writer has come across, meaning that a lot of the good stuff has been left out of the leak and is still (rightfully) unknown to us. Hopefully the final draft has addressed a number of concerns.

It does seem to me, however, that this film may make or break the Craig-Era's legacy.



#93 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:36 AM

Okay, couldn´t resist to search for it - and really, it´s all over the net, so...

 

But IMO this is all just about early stages of development.  And frankly, with the title of Bond 24 it does not really surprise, does it?

 

Some ideas - especially the one about the ending and what Bond does - are extremely tired and stolen from an all too famous 70´s thriller starring a Hollywood legend.

 

And I am not surprised that Logan´s script had to be retooled extensively.



#94 MattofSteel

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:40 AM


There are a few points that worry me, but it seems that this is all based on an early draft, and most of the points are brought up as 'issues' the writer has come across, meaning that a lot of the good stuff has been left out of the leak and is still (rightfully) unknown to us.

 

That's a very important point. People don't typically make notes about he parts of a script they like.



#95 KM16

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:44 AM

Once again, just because there is spelling mistakes, it doesn't mean it's automatically fake. They may be educated people with degree's but maybe they just don't know how to spell. Maybe it's auto-correct turning Moneypenny to Money penny or maybe they just don't care how they spell it. Maybe they type so fast on their keyboard for their phone or tablet or computer that even the slightest things like "story" can turn to "stroy" & and turns to "adn". Doesn't mean it's fake because "Hey, he spelled that word wrong, it's fake". I type over a hundred words a minute and I still find some spelling errors in my work from time to time, and I use spell check.

 

As for the plot. Again, I'm not impressed, however it dates back to March and May of this year. Presumably Logan's first draft. Looking at those notes, it's evident that the person talking about it finds several issues with it, so hopefully P&W were brought on to do more than just "punching up". At least that's what I want to make myself believe. Anything could have happened since that first draft, hopefully necessary re-writes were done. For me, Skyfall was a right step in the right direction, whereas this Leaked Spectre plot really isn't. I don't want another QOS, I want another Skyfall. Another large, epic scope, broad Bond film. I don't want to be disappointed again.

 

As for the leaks. If they were fake, don't you think Sony would've done something by now and said something about it? About Spectre or any of the films? They haven't. It's the same hacker(s) that put their screeners online to download and put all this information online tonight.

 

Well, to be completely fair to this alledged plot, there were a lot of elements from Skyfall that sounded completely dreadful written out but came across mildly to very well on screen (in example, Silva coming across as nothing more than a war-torn maniac with abandonment issues).

 

Naturally, going into reading these spoilers I was a little hesitant due to the curse of 4'th films either being down right terrible or overly bloated and coming out I still am nervous, but I'm going to try and stay as optimistic as possible. This is coming off the back of Skyfall, it's still Craig, still the same writers, same great director... all in all, it could just be a few technical bumps in an otherwise smooth road. After all, the spoilers don't even necessarily cover even 3 quarters of what I'm assuming will take place in the film so there's that.

 

And I'm happy to see every one is trying to stay as vague as possible.



#96 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:03 AM

I've had a while to let this stew and I'm going to take this as my final stance: There's no exact date on this. It could have been from a brainstorming session or the very first draft. I'm not going to panic.



#97 Admiral Messervey

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:09 AM

What´s bvS?

Batman Vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

 

As for the topic at hand, The so-called ending sounds too Iron Man 3 for my blood


Edited by Admiral Messervey, 11 December 2014 - 06:11 AM.


#98 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:10 AM

I've had a while to let this stew and I'm going to take this as my final stance: There's no exact date on this. It could have been from a brainstorming session or the very first draft. I'm not going to panic.

There is a date(s)

March 9th and May 11th. It's definitely the first draft though. Anything could've changed, but still. It was in pretty shape.



#99 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:11 AM

 

I've had a while to let this stew and I'm going to take this as my final stance: There's no exact date on this. It could have been from a brainstorming session or the very first draft. I'm not going to panic.

There is a date(s)

March 9th and May 11th. It's definitely the first draft though. Anything could've changed, but still. It was in pretty shape.

 

My bad. Still, 7 months is a long time. Things could be very different now.



#100 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:15 AM

 

 

I've had a while to let this stew and I'm going to take this as my final stance: There's no exact date on this. It could have been from a brainstorming session or the very first draft. I'm not going to panic.

There is a date(s)

March 9th and May 11th. It's definitely the first draft though. Anything could've changed, but still. It was in pretty shape.

 

My bad. Still, 7 months is a long time. Things could be very different now.

 

Hope for the best, pray for the worst. Hopefully P&W did a lot of work and hopefully Mendes and EON did as well. My only concern is that everything matches up all too perfectly now, so who knows what was really changed in those seven months.



#101 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:36 AM

With Baz´ reports of Mendes begging P & W to come back I believe that these notes were responsible for a following massive re-tooling.



#102 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:38 AM

Only one thought is circling in my head at the moment - WTF EON?


With Baz´ reports of Mendes begging P & W to come back I believe that these notes were responsible for a following massive re-tooling.

After digesting the info for a while I pray that is the case. I mean, they still at this moment have time to change it.

 

But still, it still could work...


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 December 2014 - 06:40 AM.


#103 The Dove

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:42 AM

Just popping in this thread just to say how I can't help but think of this scene from Animal House.. LOL!! Right..I'm off to NOT give any thought to the leak or whatever POTENTIAL spoilers it may have given away.. Now to go wait for the next clapperboard pic!

#104 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:43 AM

On set rewrites are a bit tricky, especially for a film like this where everything has been calculated and and perfectly planned.

 

With Baz´ reports of Mendes begging P & W to come back I believe that these notes were responsible for a following massive re-tooling.

I sincerely hope that is the case.



#105 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:53 AM

On set rewrites are a bit tricky, especially for a film like this where everything has been calculated and and perfectly planned.

 

That is certainly true. Oh well, in any case we don't know what has changed, if anything, and what else is going to happen. Even as discouraging/disappointing these leaks are, I am still positively looking forward towards the movie. It might not be what I'd wanted it to be but it still probably packs a punch.



#106 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:07 AM

 

On set rewrites are a bit tricky, especially for a film like this where everything has been calculated and and perfectly planned.

 

That is certainly true. Oh well, in any case we don't know what has changed, if anything, and what else is going to happen. Even as discouraging/disappointing these leaks are, I am still positively looking forward towards the movie. It might not be what I'd wanted it to be but it still probably packs a punch.

 

Exactly. There's no doubt, I will see this, but I'm definitely going in with modest to low expectations.



#107 007jamesbond

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:10 AM

 Batman vs Superman had a rewrite so I don't see why spectre can't do the same thing.......I think it clear the rewrite was good enough that did not force the movie to be delayed in filming 



#108 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:16 AM

 Batman vs Superman had a rewrite so I don't see why spectre can't do the same thing.......I think it clear the rewrite was good enough that did not force the movie to be delayed in filming 

Except no one knows the shape the first draft was or the plots notes.



#109 Guy Haines

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:42 AM

These notes do not read like the finished article to me. Perhaps they were the reason Purvis and Wade were brought back in? A first draft not up to scratch?

 

I remember reading a screen treatment, online, a few years back of TND. This was a good five or six years after the film came out, I might add. It was nothing like the finished film, right down to the name of the villain - for Carver read Harmsway - and the plot, which involved transferring gold out of Hong Kong, amongst other things. Even when the Raymond Benson novel of the TND script came out there were significant differences between novel and film.

 

If the "spoilers" have a grain of truth, why call the film "Spectre" at all? My guess is that the script has undergone a significant re-write since these notes were prepared and the film we see next year, even if elements of the first draft make it to the final product, will feature Bond versus SPECTRE and Blofeld, even if he calls himself Oberhauser.



#110 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 07:51 AM

If the "spoilers" have a grain of truth, why call the film "Spectre" at all?

Pretty much what I thought.



#111 Shrublands

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:41 AM

Remember these brief notes contained in an e-mail do not represent the script, they don't even represent the earlier draft of the script that they are based on.

They are a communication that only talks about the areas of the script that needs work, i.e. what is wrong with the script, not what is right.

 

The first e-mail, with the page numbers, shows that the writer has pointers on about 27 issue (on that many pages) on a script that must be about 140 pages long.

The last e-mail, which I believe dates from late October or early November, is very complementary but again is one very small communication about a script that runs for about 140 pages.



#112 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:49 AM

Yes, but some of those small bits they mention are simply wrong. They're small details which could distort and defile the big picture.



#113 Shrublands

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:59 AM

Yes, but some of those small bits they mention are simply wrong. They're small details which could distort and defile the big picture.

 

That's probably why they are being highlighted as problems that need to be changed. 

These sort of script notes are very normal for a screenplay in the writing process.



#114 sharpshooter

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:06 AM

 

Yes, but some of those small bits they mention are simply wrong. They're small details which could distort and defile the big picture.

 

That's probably why they are being highlighted as problems that need to be changed. 

These sort of script notes are very normal for a screenplay in the writing process.

 

I think that's true. The notes clearly have criticism about certain plot points which were likely altered, as well as praising certain elements which they think will be memorable. I'm not worried. I'm sure Mendes said he was satisfied with the finished script. Jesper Christensen called it truly exciting. They had enough time to polish it. 



#115 Royal Dalton

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:17 AM

 

Yes, but some of those small bits they mention are simply wrong. They're small details which could distort and defile the big picture.

 

That's probably why they are being highlighted as problems that need to be changed. 

 

The biggest problem with it is something they're saying they like and want to keep in it.



#116 SkyfallCraig

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:18 AM

Let me understand. Some of you have read parts of emails in which some things are highlighted by someone as wrong or not working, with the purpose of changing them, and you are complaining that those things don't work?
If they were perfect you shouldn't have that emails. You are complaining about something that 99% won't be in the movie!
CALM DOWN

#117 Marcin

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:30 AM

Wouldn't it be a good idea to start a new thread where those of us who've read the leaks could discuss it? 

Anyway, the biggest problem is that I understand that P&W were brought back to do some serious re-writes and final script is different to the one delivered by Logan. However, it is absolutely not possible (or at least I think it isn't) that the main plot point wasn't agreed with both Mendes and Craig before Logan began writing the script. Therefore, I don't think there is a reason to believe it has been changed.



#118 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:37 AM

 

 

Yes, but some of those small bits they mention are simply wrong. They're small details which could distort and defile the big picture.

 

That's probably why they are being highlighted as problems that need to be changed. 

 

The biggest problem with it is something they're saying they like and want to keep in it.

 

Exactly. If it's in (the major plot point), it is a disgrace and shows that despite all the talk Mendes, Craig & co. simply do not get Bond.

 

A separate thread to discuss the details should be in order, if for not another reason for me to vent my frustration and anger.


Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 December 2014 - 09:54 AM.


#119 Guy Haines

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:55 AM

Let me understand. Some of you have read parts of emails in which some things are highlighted by someone as wrong or not working, with the purpose of changing them, and you are complaining that those things don't work?
If they were perfect you shouldn't have that emails. You are complaining about something that 99% won't be in the movie!
CALM DOWN

Agreed. We are getting our "knickers in a twist", to use a quaint old expression, about a set of emails, some of them months old, which may or may not be genuine, about a script which we have been told underwent a significant rewrite, to the extent that writers who were told their services were not required, suddenly were required after all!

 

About the villain's motives - if this stuff is to be believed - one of these emails makes clear there's got to be more to it - and SPECTRE - than that. If the motive is as described in earlier correspondence one doesn't need to head a major crime syndicate simply to pursue what we're told this villain wants to pursue. It might simply be, to borrow a couple of words from Kronsteen in FRWL, an "added refinement" to a big affair.



#120 Jim

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 09:58 AM

 

A separate thread to discuss the details should be in order, if for not another reason for me to vent my frustration and anger.

 

 

All the more reason not to.

 

Mushrooming it enhances the risk of links to / sections of these things appearing here - and the sanction will be ban. Possession of stolen goods isn't a good look for us.

 

Try to contain yourself. There may be other sites willing to accept the risk but we are being extremely cautious here and would ask that this is respected.

 

Thanks.