2005 replies to this topic

[RufusCobb]

And it kicked off with a pre-credit sequence that a Bond movie would be proud of!

... featuring The Saint, no less!

How so? After reading this I went to the Saint thread and according to Ian Dickerson negotiations are ongoing with an, as yet, unnamed person. (Unless I missed a post, in which case I apologise but do please fill me in.)

Simon Dutton, who played Alistair in Time of Angels, played the Saint in 1989.

Good Lord was that Simon Dutton?! I didn't recognise him. I do remember him as the Saint, (I've followed all the TV incarnations,) he just didn't register with me. Thanks for answering my question, Tybre.

[marktmurphy]

What did you think of the bizarre cameo it kicked off with?

[sharpshooter]

That was brilliant: faith entirely restored.

Exciting, funny, tense, beautiful to look at, all performers spot-on (Matt actually seemed better here than in the previous episodes: odd since he shot this first)... just fantastic Dr Who. Loved it.

And it kicked off with a pre-credit sequence that a Bond movie would be proud of!

Agreed. Best episode of the bunch so far. Really solid series.

[Sniperscope]

Oh, and Alex Kingston is a very beautiful woman, probably.

River Song is smugness incarnate. She, along with Amy, had me groaning more than once (& not in a good way) at their sarky dialogue. My biggest problem is that they both seem to be too knowingly self-aware that they are in a TV programme which involves a number of plot contrivances and "character-moments". Could they talk like real people, please? Same goes for that very very dodgy "trap" line from the Doctor before the cliffhanger. Cringe!

Aside from that though it was an excellent episode that for me has series 5 finally shaking off the long shadow of RTD and giving us the kind of thing that we have been anticipating from Moffat all along.

How good is Matt Smith turing out? Loved that part where he grabs a strap in the drop module which then gives way under him! Very Troughtonesque. Also liked the Tom Baker CITY OF DEATH moment where Smith reads the book by flicking through it! Great!

Some neat ideas - a warrior-clergy, very WH40K (although their uniforms could have done with more thought than simply mimicking the contemporary British Army - for the 50th Century!?!). The tombs were outstandingly visualised and very creepy - did anyone else think of Gustav Dore's amazing images from Dante's INFERNO? The direction was superb at creating tension and claustrophobia.

Surely if nothing more is proved by this episode is that the BBC needs to seriously consider making series 6 all two parters. How much better is it to be left with a cliffhanger? If people were to ask me what is the essence of DW, one of the things I would point to would be cliffhangers as being integral to the spirit and adventure of the show.

Genuinely looking forward to next week for the first time in *literally* years.

Spoiler

Quick thought - even though I can't stand River Song, I wonder... is she Prisoner Zero? Or at least somehow connected to that, considering what the Bishop had to say to her...

Edited by Sniperscope, 25 April 2010 - 06:14 AM.

[Sniperscope]

... and some nice twists on the mythology to really cement the Angels as a worthy addition to the ranks of recurring threats like Daleks and Cybermen.

Geddit, geddit?? "Cement"!

Okay I'll get me coat...

Edited by Sniperscope, 25 April 2010 - 06:17 AM.

[Zorin Industries]

What did you think of the bizarre cameo it kicked off with?

VERY left of field, but cool nevertheless.

He could have sung the title song "Dry Your Eyes" in relation to the Weeping Angels.

[Zorin Industries]

Shame the BBC had to go and put that Graham Norton crap over the end, though.

I would urge people to complain on this one. There is a growing anger at that gesture - and there are channels to voice concerns about it.....

If it is not appalling enough that Andrew Lloyd Webber is getting a free two hour advert for his new show plus the trailers and online presence EVERY WEEK for OVER THE RAINBOW, they have to put some patronising cartoon promo over the final throes of a DOCTOR WHO episode, thus ruining one of the key speeches the Doctor seems to have in this series (if its own branding is anything to go by).

http://www.bbc.co.uk...aints/homepage/

[Royal Dalton]

Looks like they've had quite a few complaints about it already...

http://news.bbc.co.u...ent/8642854.stm

[marktmurphy]

Pah; this is something that obviously affected those still watching in 20th century standard definition...

[DamnCoffee]

There is something really really off about this series. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying it, but overall it's been a letdown. I'm not gonna say that it's because Matt Smith is a bad actor, because he isn't. It's the writing...

The Time of Angels was entertaining and thrilling, but it was far from amazing. The Doctor and Amy had no character development what so ever. With The Doctor and Donna, or The Doctor and Rose, you could belive that they were friends, with the Doctor and Amy you can't. Why did the Weeping Angels not move around the cave when they weren't being observed? Surely they would be moving when the Doctor and the team weren't watching them?

Plus, THE DOCTOR IS A BLOODY IDIOT!
Seriously, he couldn't work out how to save a whale, he let 5 Power Ranger Daleks get away, AS WELL as bringing them back in the first place, then, it took him a good half hour to realise that the Aplands, a race who he knew well, didn't have an extra head. I mean, what the hell? The only herioic thing he's done is talk to a massive eye. I love Smith, don't get me wrong. I just can't help thinking that we've got a dick head in a bow tie, with no clue at all.

Gillans acting wasn't that good either. I don't know about you, but if I was stuck in a locked room with a Weeping Angel, I would be screaming. Why wasn't she?

"BUT YOU'RE A STATUE!! YOU CAN'T MOVE! "

I really dunno, I'm enjoying the series. But overall, it's such a let down. The Doctor hasn't done anything great. The only great speech he gave ended up being a testimony. I hope things improve.



Oh, and NEXT WEEKS LOOKS AMAZING.

[DaveBond21]

I grew up with Tom Baker as the Doctor, followed by Peter Davison and Colin Baker.

I think Tom Baker seems to be the most popular in the US - during a Simpson's episode they used his incarnation as an example of Doctor Who. He was also the Doctor for the longest amount of time (8 years).

I watched it from around 1981 until 1987, but then it started getting really cheap and silly.

One of the spookiest moments is the episode when Tom Baker turned into Peter Davison. The Watcher is one of the creepiest characters I've seen on TV, even if it did only turn out to be the 5th doctor arriving to take part in regeneration.

[sharpshooter]

The Doctor was going to make the Star Whale a vegetable, so it could continue the journey painlessly. He had the smarts to devise that. He just didn’t want to roll the dice and push a button, where the result was unclear at best. His plan was more reliable.

The Doctor was thrown into a situation, was confused about the “Ironsides” and naturally exploded with rage. What happened then was out of his control and above in a spaceship. His testimony was needed, but I wouldn’t really put the blame on him for bringing them back. The Daleks had it all planned out.

As for letting The Daleks get away, he couldn’t do anything except what he did in that diversion. He either remained on the ship and Earth was destroyed, or left and dealt with Bracewell’s bomb. By the time he was ready to go back, they had left. Out of his control. He could have remained on the ship, but then he’d be getting roasted for allowing the Earth to be destroyed. Or himself getting exterminated, since his Jammie Dodger trick fell through and The Daleks were out of patience.

Re: Weeping Angels. I think they probably were moving around, but were waiting until the team were cornered and surrounded in that hole like they currently are now, with apparently no way out, or anywhere to go. Except up. Something they didn’t account for.

[Sniperscope]

The Time of Angels was entertaining and thrilling, but it was far from amazing. The Doctor and Amy had no character development what so ever. With The Doctor and Donna, or The Doctor and Rose, you could belive that they were friends, with the Doctor and Amy you can't. Why did the Weeping Angels not move around the cave when they weren't being observed? Surely they would be moving when the Doctor and the team weren't watching them?

Plus, THE DOCTOR IS A BLOODY IDIOT!
Seriously, he couldn't work out how to save a whale, he let 5 Power Ranger Daleks get away, AS WELL as bringing them back in the first place, then, it took him a good half hour to realise that the Aplands, a race who he knew well, didn't have an extra head. I mean, what the hell? The only herioic thing he's done is talk to a massive eye. I love Smith, don't get me wrong. I just can't help thinking that we've got a dick head in a bow tie, with no clue at all.

Gillans acting wasn't that good either. I don't know about you, but if I was stuck in a locked room with a Weeping Angel, I would be screaming. Why wasn't she?

I agree with many of your points Mharkin, especially re. Amy who so far I have found insufferable. Not only does she not react at all like someone who is discovering time travel for the first time, but she is being written as a kind of amalgam of Rose and Donna, without any of the actual character development that made them a success. For the fourth story she is mighty sarky and cocky with the Doctor. Hated her sarcasm when no-one wanted her help during the episode. I mena considering how she basically twists the Doctor's arm to let her see an alien planet in TToA, but once out there she seemingly couldn't care less and is more concerned with annoying him with childish speculations on his and Song's relationship...
Amy's moment in the landing module was ridiculous really - her stoicism in the face of such a bizarre phenomenon stretches credibility as was her perspicacity in identifying how to overcome it. Her crowing after "defeating" the angel was really on the nose and did emasculate the Doctor.
Sure, Moffat isn't an idiot - whatever he is doing to the characters is intentional - but I'm not sure why he's doing it...

Smith is outstanding - and with some good scripts could be the best Doctor of the New Series, but I agree also that the character's heroic status is being a bit downplayed. I'm not sure how much of a fan of the classic series you are Mharkin (and I'm not taking a dig at you! ), because in many ways 11's role is very similar to Doctor's 1 and 2 who both tend to hover around a bit in the background and get involved, often, in an incidental, almost accidental, manner.
In some ways I think Moffat could be doing the wrong thing here. Classic fans have no trouble with this characterisation, but I think people who only know the New series are possibly expecting a more traditional hero and could be feeling a bit hollow. Similarly I think many of the soap-opera elements so beloved by RTD have been absent so far which could also contribute to the "letdown" feeling of the series...
I thought it was actually great the way the Doctor didn't know about the Aplands and had unwittingly fallen into a trap. To me this is a huge improvement on the know-all 10th. Of course if this goes on much longer, the 11th is in danger of being a buffoon - and from the glimpse I've seen of VAMPIRES IN VENICE, this is a distinct possibility...

Edited by Sniperscope, 28 April 2010 - 08:58 AM.

[Zorin Industries]

There is something really really off about this series. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying it, but overall it's been a letdown. I'm not gonna say that it's because Matt Smith is a bad actor, because he isn't. It's the writing...

The Time of Angels was entertaining and thrilling, but it was far from amazing. The Doctor and Amy had no character development what so ever. With The Doctor and Donna, or The Doctor and Rose, you could belive that they were friends, with the Doctor and Amy you can't. Why did the Weeping Angels not move around the cave when they weren't being observed? Surely they would be moving when the Doctor and the team weren't watching them?

Plus, THE DOCTOR IS A BLOODY IDIOT!
Seriously, he couldn't work out how to save a whale, he let 5 Power Ranger Daleks get away, AS WELL as bringing them back in the first place, then, it took him a good half hour to realise that the Aplands, a race who he knew well, didn't have an extra head. I mean, what the hell? The only herioic thing he's done is talk to a massive eye. I love Smith, don't get me wrong. I just can't help thinking that we've got a dick head in a bow tie, with no clue at all.

Gillans acting wasn't that good either. I don't know about you, but if I was stuck in a locked room with a Weeping Angel, I would be screaming. Why wasn't she?

"BUT YOU'RE A STATUE!! YOU CAN'T MOVE! "

I really dunno, I'm enjoying the series. But overall, it's such a let down. The Doctor hasn't done anything great. The only great speech he gave ended up being a testimony. I hope things improve.



Oh, and NEXT WEEKS LOOKS AMAZING.

As I personally felt for a while, Stephen Moffat does not understand the full reach of television. Understanding how to write well for it is not the same. Saying that, I don't think his work so far has been bad, just more of the same so the whole thing feels samey. Working on one's fears is not the same as carrying a whole series (with a vast history and fan base). He has also lost Phil Collinson who was a very resourceful producer and had a creative ability to stretch the budgets (from people I know working with him right now).

[Lachesis]

There is something really really off about this series. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying it, but overall it's been a letdown. I'm not gonna say that it's because Matt Smith is a bad actor, because he isn't. It's the writing...

The Time of Angels was entertaining and thrilling, but it was far from amazing. The Doctor and Amy had no character development what so ever. With The Doctor and Donna, or The Doctor and Rose, you could belive that they were friends, with the Doctor and Amy you can't. Why did the Weeping Angels not move around the cave when they weren't being observed? Surely they would be moving when the Doctor and the team weren't watching them?

Plus, THE DOCTOR IS A BLOODY IDIOT!
Seriously, he couldn't work out how to save a whale, he let 5 Power Ranger Daleks get away, AS WELL as bringing them back in the first place, then, it took him a good half hour to realise that the Aplands, a race who he knew well, didn't have an extra head. I mean, what the hell? The only herioic thing he's done is talk to a massive eye. I love Smith, don't get me wrong. I just can't help thinking that we've got a dick head in a bow tie, with no clue at all.

Gillans acting wasn't that good either. I don't know about you, but if I was stuck in a locked room with a Weeping Angel, I would be screaming. Why wasn't she?

"BUT YOU'RE A STATUE!! YOU CAN'T MOVE! "

I really dunno, I'm enjoying the series. But overall, it's such a let down. The Doctor hasn't done anything great. The only great speech he gave ended up being a testimony. I hope things improve.



Oh, and NEXT WEEKS LOOKS AMAZING.

Although I agree I might want the doctor more involved in devising the resolution, I find it very refreshing that we are back to seeing stories actually unfold, that the story rather than the character is back to being the real focus.

Previously the new series engaged in showing us all but real time events that the Doctor ran into, or else events that revolved soley about him, everything was driven into bleak no-hope territory before a miraculous invention or left field event sorted it all out.... there was little or no sense of progression, simply of waiting for that magic wand moment and basking in the epicness of it all (if you did)... Moffat is a different kind of storyteller, now we are following the Doctor and we discover the mystery along with him, we see he can make mistakes (he solved the mystery of prisoner Zero, he had a solution for the space whale (if not the ultimate one) and he was forced by circumstance to leave the Daleks to escape), he doesn't have every perfect solution, there are widows for the audience to guess what is going to happen next...900years and a time machine do not equate to omniciensce and that was a great conciet of RTD's era that took rational science out of the equation and replaced it with guilded magic.

However another feature RTD introduced is the 'not just a companion' companion and that still seems to be in play here - perhaps RTD's era worked better with both these elements in tandem (though Ecclestons Doctor was fallible and often found Rose supplying the real answers), here we have a classic series Doctor (very much of the ilk of Doctors 1-4 in particular), using psudo real science and cunning to defeat enemies and inspire allies to become more that they were but with a new series Companion that the writer seems keen to promote ahead of him (perhaps because there is less time for her arc to complete etc).

Interesting days I think and in the fullness of time I think it will be just what the Doctor ordered.

[Royal Dalton]

Quite honestly, I found the Russell T. Davies era virtually unwatchable. So, for all its flaws, and despite it not reaching a high water mark (yet?), I'll take this series, and Smith, over anything else produced under the Doctor Who banner since 2005.

[Head of S]

RUSSELL T DAVIES WRITES FOR THE ELEVENTH DOCTOR

Matt Smith will appear as The Doctor, joining Elizabeth Sladen's Sarah Jane in a two-part story for series four of 'The Sarah Jane Adventures' - written by Russell T Davies. Also appearing is Katy Manning as Jo Grant, the third Doctor's companion who last appeared in 'The Green Death' (1973) with Jon Pertwee. SJA producer Brian Minchin says that neither, "Matt nor Katy is making a caneo appearance - it's a proper full-blooded adventure for the both of them."

Edited by Head of S, 28 April 2010 - 06:50 PM.

[Zorin Industries]

This is a bit random but I was thinking about the AMY POND character.

Is she not technically real...? Is she maybe some sort of entity that others have created, a sort of stray-being lost in time that only exists because others created her ("Amelia Pond....as in a fairytale" / "Myth" on GEOFF's laptop...?). She may even be a creation / plant of the DOCTOR's (her house's front door surely did not resemble the TARDIS for nothing).

The crack is not just in her room, it is how she got there?

[Tybre]

I grew up with Tom Baker as the Doctor, followed by Peter Davison and Colin Baker.

I think Tom Baker seems to be the most popular in the US - during a Simpson's episode they used his incarnation as an example of Doctor Who. He was also the Doctor for the longest amount of time (8 years).

Tom Baker certainly was the most popular in the US. Lately it seems like DT has overtaken him, but eh.

Also, rumorage about the cracks:

Spoiler

Nutshell: The Cracks are releasing a lot of energy that somehow or other essentially wipes anyone it comes in contact with from existence, and if left unchecked it would eventually destroy reality. The Doctor traces it back to its source, an explosion on the same day as Pond's wedding (and the date of finale broadcast if unhindered by the World Cup). The whole Pandorica business is tied in of course. And the cracks are somehow or other centered on Pond.

So, yeah, spoilered just in case that is, in fact, truth.

[Royal Dalton]

The crack is...

Spoiler

... a smile, apparently.

[DamnCoffee]

That was a really good episode!

Spoiler

Moving Angels!

Oh, and... I think River ends up killing the Doctor!

[Royal Dalton]

That's what they want you to think.

It was pretty good. Probably Moffat's best two-parter. The ending seemed somewhat out of place, though!

[sharpshooter]

That was a really good episode!

Sure was. A satisfying conclusion to last week.

Next week looks like a romp.

[Lachesis]

It was a tremendous episode with some great moments though the resolution was a disappointment when it really strayed away from focus of the Angels...and then the epilogue just didn't gel for me... but those negatives are outweighed by the positives making that my favorite story of the season so far and probably the best since Blink (undecided if I like this better than that or Empty Child yet)

[marktmurphy]

Yeah, I liked it but was a bit unhappy that the crack became the focus of the episode; felt a bit of a cheat, somehow.

[Brian Flagg]

I've enjoyed the eleventh Doctor stories so far but what I absolutely despise is BBC America's 7 minutes of show-to 5 minutes of commercial interruptions ratio. I don't watch any other TV programs, but I don't know how anyone else can endure all those ads--outside of Tivo and DVR recorders etc. Thank goodness for On Demand, which makes the shows available the following day and with very little commercial intrusion.

[DamnCoffee]

Now, I'm really enjoying the season so far, despite it's flaws. I think Murray Gold is a good composer, and has given us some brilliant tracks over the years. BUT, this new Doctors theme is geting increasingly annoying.

Lets just think about this for a second. Ask yourselves how much it's been used up untill now.

The Eleventh Hour - At least SEVEN times, that's including the next time trailer.
The Beast Below - Once? Maybe Twice.
The Victory of the Daleks - Three times, maybe twice.
The Time of Angels - Three times.
Flesh and Stone - Twice.


I don't know about you, but I'm getting increasingly annoyed by it. We've had it in every single BBC trailer as well, including the launch trailers.

I knew, that in TOA, where the Doctor begins to give the heroic speech, (Just before Graham Norton popped up). that it's gone too far. It's as if Murray Gold is repeating himself over and over again, and I'm sick of it. Every time it's used, I just roll my eyes. I don't want this with Doctor Who. I want to be blown away by the music, like I was in The End of Time: Part Two. Atleast Gold has given us a few cool variations of it, especially the one in TOA, where he discovers the Weeping Angels are surrounding them.

Seriously though, I really do think that this has to stop. I miss All the Strange Strange Creatures, and the Doctor Forever. Oh, and the Tennant era Doctors theme.

[Brian Flagg]

Now, I'm really enjoying the season so far, despite it's flaws. I think Murray Gold is a good composer, and has given us some brilliant tracks over the years. BUT, this new Doctors theme is geting increasingly annoying.

In previous series, I looked forward to Gold's scores, now I can't stand them. It's like he read his press clippings and has fallen into a caricature of himself. The music for the current Doctor eps are melodramtic and intrusive, whereas before they helped convey the emotions and action despite the fact that the music is often cranked up on this series.

[marktmurphy]

I like it.

[sharpshooter]

I like it.

I do too, but I agree with Mharkin. It is a tad overused.