1942 replies to this topic

[hcmv007]

I havent heard the full song, just small clips so I cant vote yet.

 

But I am not a Sam Smith fan, to me his songs just sound depressing. I'll give it a shot, since its for a Bond Film.

[SecretAgentFan]

It's not easy to please everybody, but this song has disgruntled most to some extent. However much i can learn to accept aspects of the song, the falsetto is resoundingly awful. That is something the majority seem to agree upon.

 

 

It's as tough the song were a duet with a women whom couldn't make it to the recording, so Smith sang her parts as a temporary measure and then decided not to bother re-recording it so they could save cash on Smith's singing partner. I'm not suggesting this is true, but i find it easier to believe than Eon really thinking the falsetto sections were acceptable. Perhaps it was a case of the emperors clothes with a room full of yes men afraid to say it's crap.

 

Well, the "majority" is only the majority of people on a message board.  The majority of record buyers obviously loved it.  Which is an obviously much larger majority.

 

And one thing´s for sure:  Sam Mendes is anything but a yes man.  If he had hated the song it would have been reworked extensively.  In fact, he had lots of input.

 

The falsetto, by the way, is something that I never liked in Smith´s work.  And it irritated me here at first, too.  But it does make sense in the context of the song, and I do consider it impressive how Smith goes from his undeniably full voice into falsetto and back.

 

In any event, this is, of course, a question of taste and preference, and anybody who hates the singing and/or the song - please, do.

 

But I wonder whether part of those who hate this are rejecting mainly the idea behind this song: a hurt, sensitive man, stripped of his shell, becoming the child again that - as we all know - lost so much to become a hardened man who would not be hurt.  Sung by an openly gay man. 

[dlb007]

I'm not a big fan of contemporary pop music so I had very little knowledge of what Sam Smith sounded like. It was brought to my attention that unless I lived under a rock, I had, indeed, heard one of his songs. I've listened to WOTW multiple times and I think it works. The falsetto was off-putting at first, but I don't mind it at all now. I think, knowing what we know about Spectre, it seems to fit perfectly. I think it's a fine Bond song.

[thecasinoroyale]

I think my only irk regarding the song, apart from the voice of the singer, is the way it's gone from one end of the scale in 'YKMN' from Bond being a cold-blooded assassin who will keep fighting, to this and Bond sounding like he can't cope in life without somebody to love. It makes him sound more desperate than he was with Vesper, and this makes him appear flippant and ready to jack everything in.

 

That doesn't sound like the same Bond we met 9 years ago on introduction. I thought he'd learnt after Vesper.

[sharpshooter]

My ranking of the Craig era songs:

 

1. You Know My Name

2. Skyfall

3. Writing's on the Wall

4. Another Way to Die

[SecretAgentFan]

I think my only irk regarding the song, apart from the voice of the singer, is the way it's gone from one end of the scale in 'YKMN' from Bond being a cold-blooded assassin who will keep fighting, to this and Bond sounding like he can't cope in life without somebody to love. It makes him sound more desperate than he was with Vesper, and this makes him appear flippant and ready to jack everything in.

 

That doesn't sound like the same Bond we met 9 years ago on introduction. I thought he'd learnt after Vesper.

 

He is not the same Bond that we met 9 years ago.  That´s the point of the whole Craig-Bond-arc.  And I assume that he thought he had learned after Vesper better not to fall in love again.  

 

But who can learn that, really?

[thecasinoroyale]

This just feels Bond is motivated by love, and personal links to his own life, rather than external forces. It seems nearly every mission Craig's Bond has done, he's done (or will be doing) being a rogue or bending the rules to suit his own personal feelings and emotion.

 

I dunno. I sound like I'm bashing the films now, and Craig, as I'm not - I can't wait for this one more so. Just over-thinking things probably.

[deth]

This re-affirms my belief that it would have sounded better if sung by a woman:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=2S36EaQkPQA

[sharpshooter]

 

He is not the same Bond that we met 9 years ago.  That´s the point of the whole Craig-Bond-arc.  And I assume that he thought he had learned after Vesper better not to fall in love again.  

 

But who can learn that, really?

I agree. To me, it sounds like Bond is now the weary agent with experience under his belt possibly looking for an exit strategy. He's entertaining the idea to maybe stop running. But as we know, Bond is destined to always be running. Fate always intervenes. 

[thecasinoroyale]

So does this mean we have to let the Bond who just kept going for Queen and Country behind when he "retired" in 2002, and instead have him with far more personal demons and motives than before until he finds some sort of resolution to decide what to do with his life?

 

Or when Craig's journey comes to an end, is it another "reboot" to have a new version of James Bond not always hurting and acting like a rogue man with a personal mission to accomplish?

[antovolk]

Teaser for the official music video.

[thecasinoroyale]

Well that's overly dramatic!

 

'Skyfall' vibes and 5 coffins? Oooooh who could they be representing? *overthinks*

[Orion]

My ranking of the Craig era songs:

 

1. You Know My Name

2. Skyfall

3. Writing's on the Wall

4. Another Way to Die

Same

Teaser for the official music video.

Is the video going to have representations of all the Craig era, which I can see the song fitting as it seems to be about Bond lamenting all he's lost and how every person Bond connects to seems to end up dead ("sounds like you just lost another one")

[sharpshooter]

Is the video going to have representations of all the Craig era, which I can see the song fitting as it seems to be about Bond lamenting all he's lost and how every person Bond connects to seems to end up dead ("sounds like you just lost another one")

I like that idea. We could see Vesper, Fields, Severine and M. 

 

Or when Craig's journey comes to an end, is it another "reboot" to have a new version of James Bond not always hurting and acting like a rogue man with a personal mission to accomplish?

I think it's a case of Craig and Mendes pursuing a story that interests them. At the moment it's rooted in childhood and pain. When they step away, I think the serious tone will remain, but the focus will likely change. 

[thecasinoroyale]

5 coffins?

 

Vesper...Fields...Mathis...M.........hmm. Severine I'd hope.

 

 

EDIT: Great minds, sharpshooter

Edited by thecasinoroyale, 30 September 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

So does this mean we have to let the Bond who just kept going for Queen and Country behind when he "retired" in 2002, and instead have him with far more personal demons and motives than before until he finds some sort of resolution to decide what to do with his life?

 

Or when Craig's journey comes to an end, is it another "reboot" to have a new version of James Bond not always hurting and acting like a rogue man with a personal mission to accomplish?

 

I see the problem, having only four films so far with Craig-Bond, and all of them depict situations that are tied to certain emotional stages within his life as a secret agent.

 

But that, I suppose, is just what the arc of this era is all about.  We witness the personal side of Bond, something that has not been presented in such magnitude before.

 

That does not mean, however, that he is not motivated by his duty.  He actually is in all three films (and I guess it won´t be different in SPECTRE).  It´s just that duty and the protection of Queen and Country are tangled up with personal demons.

 

- In CR, he wants to stop LeChiffre and sabotage the terrorist network, and he does, almost losing his life and the one person that loves him.  The idea of quitting is already strengthened here, but it falls together with his reconvalescing.  And he quickly is back on the job.

 

- In QOS, he actually says he is motivated by his duty.  Of course, he is driven by revenge, too.  But it´s not as if he were letting his job slide to pursue something else.  Again, emotional stakes are coupled with his professional goals.  In the end, he chooses to be professional, not killing the man who recruited Vesper but allowing him to be captured.

 

- In SF, he starts out on a mission that only becomes personal when M risks his life.  When he goes after Silva, again he is mostly driven by his urge to prove M that he can do his job.

 

I suspect, SPECTRE starts out the same way, and when he discovers that he has been a puppet for Oberhauser´s strings all along there is no alternative to fight that (while also fighting a terrorist origanization threatening the whole world).  But Bond must notice that he always is a pawn, for his superiors and for his foes.  It´s a natural step to re-think this and to ask: is this really the life I want?

[Vauxhall]

Familiar looking location too:

[The Shark]

http://www.showbiz41...ts-after-5-days
 

James Bond Theme Collapses on Charts

Adele sang in the theme from “Skyfall”: “this is the end.” Let’s hope not. But the new James Bond theme song, for “Spectre,” is a bust.

Sam Smith’s song “Writing’s on the Wall,” was released last Friday to much fanfare. As a matter of course, the song skipped up to number 1 on iTunes and stayed there for a couple of days.

But just five days after release, “Writing’s on the Wall” is down to number 24 — and sinking fast. On amazon.com the single is at number 47. It doesn’t seem to be on the US or Global Spotify charts at all. (Is it possible no one is streaming it? Really?)

Luckily, the song is number 1 in the UK. Maybe Smith is a British thing.

Is the writing on the wall for “Spectre”? Let’s hope not. But the song is not a good harbinger. Basically, it’s awful. It’s a limp noodle version of “Skyfall,” a melodramatic dead end that forebodes no spectre of anything, certainly not excitement.

The single is also simply not radio friendly. It’s long winded, pedestrian, and boring. Your mind wanders before you get to the chorus. And as I noted last Friday, this is the first Bond song I can recall in ages that doesn’t include the title of the movie. It sounds like the theme song for a movie called “Writing’s on the Wall.” Didn’t Smith like the word Spectre?

I hate to say it but it’s important to remember that Smith’s most famous song so far– “Stay with Me”– was nicked from Tom Petty’s “I Won’t Back Down.” He had to amend the credits and pay Petty.

Choosing a very early songwriter with few credits was a gamble on the part of the Bond people. Maybe they thought they’d get something with a gospel-feel. But Smith simply re-watered “Skyfall.” Also, after Adele’s giant anthem was such a hit, won an Oscar etc, it may have been time for something either more uptempo, rock song like “Live and Let Die,” or a big pop ballad by experts.

Remember too that Marvin Hamlisch and Carole Bayer Sager wrote “Nobody Does it Better.” Carly Simon sang it. Richard Perry produced it. This was like having the 1927 Yankees make your record.

Can “Writings on the Wall” come back? Unlikely.

[SecretAgentFan]

http://www.showbiz41...ts-after-5-days
 

And as I noted last Friday, this is the first Bond song I can recall in ages that doesn’t include the title of the movie. 

 

 

In ages...  yeah, who can remember 2009 or 2006?

 

Well, that kind of puts that "journalist" in perspective for me. 

[Shrublands]

This is interesting WotW, performed by a violin soloist. 

 

[thecasinoroyale]

You put forward an entertaining and thoughtful debate Mr.SAF   Hats off to you.

 

As for 'WOTW', I guess Sam will, and always will be, the bigger draw to the home nation of the UK.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I kinda like Music Lab Collective's piano solo

 

[dirtymind]

 

http://www.showbiz41...ts-after-5-days
 

"It sounds like the theme song for a movie called “Writing’s on the Wall.” Didn’t Smith like the word Spectre?"

 

 

This is journalism at its best. 

[Odd Jobbies]

 

It's not easy to please everybody, but this song has disgruntled most to some extent. However much i can learn to accept aspects of the song, the falsetto is resoundingly awful. That is something the majority seem to agree upon.

 

 

It's as tough the song were a duet with a women whom couldn't make it to the recording, so Smith sang her parts as a temporary measure and then decided not to bother re-recording it so they could save cash on Smith's singing partner. I'm not suggesting this is true, but i find it easier to believe than Eon really thinking the falsetto sections were acceptable. Perhaps it was a case of the emperors clothes with a room full of yes men afraid to say it's crap.

 

Well, the "majority" is only the majority of people on a message board.  The majority of record buyers obviously loved it.  Which is an obviously much larger majority.

 

And one thing´s for sure:  Sam Mendes is anything but a yes man.  If he had hated the song it would have been reworked extensively.  In fact, he had lots of input.

 

The falsetto, by the way, is something that I never liked in Smith´s work.  And it irritated me here at first, too.  But it does make sense in the context of the song, and I do consider it impressive how Smith goes from his undeniably full voice into falsetto and back.

 

In any event, this is, of course, a question of taste and preference, and anybody who hates the singing and/or the song - please, do.

 

But I wonder whether part of those who hate this are rejecting mainly the idea behind this song: a hurt, sensitive man, stripped of his shell, becoming the child again that - as we all know - lost so much to become a hardened man who would not be hurt.  Sung by an openly gay man. 

 

Well i can only speak for my own tastes, but i welcome a song that that delves into the human, sensitive side of Bond. After all it's something Fleming often did.

 

As for yes men - no offence intended towards Mendes - i'm a fan - but to get a feature film made their are always concessions on all sides - that includes the director. What would make his life harder are the yes men surrounding the studio rep who likely loved the idea of such a Popular artist singing the song.

 

I'd have to lose respect for Mendes as an artist if he truly thought the falsetto sections were worthy, but he'd lose no sleep over my opinion. However i'd like to think he might stir a little if a majority of fans on a major Bond forum agreed to dislike it and that's precisely what we have here. 

 

When they say that only 20 minutes was spent putting this song together, someone should tell them that it's not something that they should be bragging about.

Indeed.

[Dustin]

I'd have to lose respect for Mendes as an artist if he truly thought the falsetto sections were worthy, but he'd lose no sleep over my opinion. However i'd like to think he might stir a little if a majority of fans on a major Bond forum agreed to dislike it and that's precisely what we have here.

Oh...careful there. We tend to spend a lot of time with Bond here obviously. And as fans we of course spend lots of time on CBn, so much so we tend to notice when our opinion is mirrored by others - and ignore when it's not. But it's still nowhere near representative; I think only sales/downloads/streams will come close to give an idea how much this song connects or fails to connect. There was no doubt Smith's work would polarise to some extent; I would have been astonished if it hadn't. But lots of fans seem to have bought it, too, either blind or because they really liked it. So stirred Mendes might be, but he will hardly question his judgement if WOTW was really fitting in his view.

Personally, I didn't listen to most Bond songs after Goldeneye. Skyfall changed that, up to a point, until its charm waned for me. Now there's one more that doesn't sit too well with me, no big deal. I've come to accept that these songs are now no longer aimed specifically at me. It's fine if one does but I don't expect it any more.

[AgentPB]

I've listened to Writings on the Wall quite a few times now, at first I must admit it just felt wrong. It felt too similar to Skyfall, the orchestration and what not. Upon repeated listens it gains a certain distinctness, have we ever heard a Bond theme quite like this? I don't think so. The vulnerability (aka falsetto, lyrics, etc.) set it some what apart. Is it my favorite? No. I also didn't much care for Skyfall, but appreciated the previous two Craig themes. In the end I think this is a more and serviceable theme and am in many ways glad that someone involved with its production was open to experimentation. No point in going to the cinema if it is just another Skyfall for the next 20 pictures.

[DaveBond21]

The opening sounds just like the start of The World is Not Enough. Play them  both closely together and you will see what I mean.

[Emrayfo]

I think my only irk regarding the song, apart from the voice of the singer, is the way it's gone from one end of the scale in 'YKMN' from Bond being a cold-blooded assassin who will keep fighting, to this and Bond sounding like he can't cope in life without somebody to love. It makes him sound more desperate than he was with Vesper, and this makes him appear flippant and ready to jack everything in.

 

That doesn't sound like the same Bond we met 9 years ago on introduction. I thought he'd learnt after Vesper.

Bond was cold-blooded and duty-driven in Casino Royale, particularly in the early parts of the film. Witness the PTS. But he also had an emotional awakening with Vesper that taught him not only to value and cherish others, but to value and cherish something in himself; to treat himself as more than just an expendable tool. And even though he considered retiring and throwing his career away for a life with Vesper, in some ways that was the naive response of someone in the first blush of love, and for Bond it always comes back to obligation and duty in the end. I can see your point but I do not think we are being presented with inconsistent Bonds - rather we have a trajectory of development. Bond is still the driven man he always was, but he is still human and not a superhero, just as he was in CR.

 

 

So does this mean we have to let the Bond who just kept going for Queen and Country behind when he "retired" in 2002, and instead have him with far more personal demons and motives than before until he finds some sort of resolution to decide what to do with his life?

 

Or when Craig's journey comes to an end, is it another "reboot" to have a new version of James Bond not always hurting and acting like a rogue man with a personal mission to accomplish?

 

I see the problem, having only four films so far with Craig-Bond, and all of them depict situations that are tied to certain emotional stages within his life as a secret agent.

 

But that, I suppose, is just what the arc of this era is all about.  We witness the personal side of Bond, something that has not been presented in such magnitude before.

 

That does not mean, however, that he is not motivated by his duty.  He actually is in all three films (and I guess it won´t be different in SPECTRE).  It´s just that duty and the protection of Queen and Country are tangled up with personal demons.

 

- In CR, he wants to stop LeChiffre and sabotage the terrorist network, and he does, almost losing his life and the one person that loves him.  The idea of quitting is already strengthened here, but it falls together with his reconvalescing.  And he quickly is back on the job.

 

- In QOS, he actually says he is motivated by his duty.  Of course, he is driven by revenge, too.  But it´s not as if he were letting his job slide to pursue something else.  Again, emotional stakes are coupled with his professional goals.  In the end, he chooses to be professional, not killing the man who recruited Vesper but allowing him to be captured.

 

- In SF, he starts out on a mission that only becomes personal when M risks his life.  When he goes after Silva, again he is mostly driven by his urge to prove M that he can do his job.

 

I suspect, SPECTRE starts out the same way, and when he discovers that he has been a puppet for Oberhauser´s strings all along there is no alternative to fight that (while also fighting a terrorist origanization threatening the whole world).  But Bond must notice that he always is a pawn, for his superiors and for his foes.  It´s a natural step to re-think this and to ask: is this really the life I want?

 

I agree with SecretAgentFan. There may be personal motivations as well as motivations of duty, but they can work together. Quantum of Solace is a good example - M assumed she had a rogue agent on her hands hell-bent on revenge - actually Bond had compartmentalised his hurt/anger/guilt/loss and instead focused on his duty, instead throwing himself into his work and just taking a small quantum of solace where he can, in the interstitial times. He also started to build more on his relationship with M over this period, basically letting someone else into his life and psyche after first doing so with Vesper; realising being connected to other humans can actually make you stronger.

 

I share the concerns of thecasinoroyale regarding continually getting films seemingly about personal vendettas rather than just a professional doing his job (LTK, DAF, QoS, CR all having aspects of a maverick agent either going rogue or disobeying orders). For example, is an Oberhauser link necessary for SPECTRE to work as a film and story? But I think overall the Craig films have maintained a reasonable balance in this regard.

 

Thecasinoroyal asks, "So does this mean we have to let the Bond who just kept going for Queen and Country behind when he 'retired' in 2002?". I think the answer is clearly no. In regards to how WOTW positions the Bond of SPECTRE in this regard, of duty versus personal concerns, I return to my earlier comments on the song's themes:

 

I don't think we're getting a "feminine" Bond, whatever that means. What we have is a Bond with some vulnerability, which has been present throughout the Craig tenure. It is that vulnerability wielded into strength that also makes OHMSS and Lazenby's portrayal so memorable and resonating to me. I like seeing a human hero struggling with real dilemmas and baggage, but who still digs deep to overcome overwhelming odds and win the day. Superheros are boring.

 

Vulnerability, fear and fallibility and the overcoming of these things are the source of courage and heroism. If you are literally fearless, then you are incapable of courage or bravery. Courage is inexplicably linked to fear and mortality and the possibility of failure. Renard in TWINE was not tough or resilient, he just had no feeling or sensation. But Bond in that film could feel pain and injury and so in battling Renard had to deal with and overcome his own very real limitations. WOTW talks of having needs, feeling vulnerable, but still battling on and doing your duty. This is the very opposite of "whimpy", as some people have styled it.

 

Lyrically, WOTW seems a very accurate representation of where the Craig Bond now finds himself and where I expect SPECTRE will take him. Craig has just lost the single most important person and relationship in his life with the death of M in Skyfall. He failed. He is hurt and vulnerable and lonely, and these feelings just pile up on his pre-existing feelings regarding the loss of Vesper. But he will soldier on, because that is what he does. And all this is happening just as he seems likely to meet someone else but also straight before he meets the biggest test of his career in SPECTRE. But Bond is a man for whom obligation and duty will always win out over his personal interests. And this causes existential strife for him. But again he will do what needs to be done. For love of country. For duty. Because it is right. And because he fights for something bigger than himself. But still there is that longing. 

 

WOTW is a love song, but also the song of someone with a tumultuous past, who is worried about losing what he feels he is about to gain. Someone who knows he will risk everything because he must. He'd like to know that someone was there by his side, ready to rescue him and catch his fall, but he will risk everything even if they are not. 

 

Craig's Bond will go on and fight the good fight until he can go on no more, regardless of how he hurts.

[jamie00007]

Now that the dust has settled and I've become used to the song, I think I can officially say I have a new least favourite Bond theme song. Die Another Day, you're off the hook. In fact, you are a suddenly sounding a lot better.

Edited by jamie00007, 01 October 2015 - 06:08 AM.

[Guy Haines]

One thing has occured to me, after a recent visit to my local. It was karaoke night. "Skyfall" gets sung at this event from time to time.

I cannot see WOTW joining the list of karaoke tracks at my local. The vocal range would be way beyond even the best amateur vocalist there.