1942 replies to this topic

[bebel01]

Agreed.

Edited by bebel01, 30 September 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[Jim]

Sunday just got itself lost in stereotype.

[The Shark]

Never mind.

[Guy Haines]

I'm at a bit of a loss about the fuss above.

I don't recall anyone having a problem about k. d. lang performing the end title of TND - a full five years after she "came out".

[stromberg]

I just don't like the media hoopla about it, or anything else for that matter, that all everything and everyone wants today is visibility, to be back on topic, the producers probably calculated also that people like me won't shut their mouths and that's also good for the film. Whatever, I'll just shut up now, peace. (really)

 

I don't recall any media hoopla about Smith being openly gay, and I don't see a statement here. Eon certainly didn't want to stir up anything, the last thing they want is controversies around their movies. They're not exactly after this kind of publicity. They hired a singer to do a theme song. It's people like you that make a fuss about him being openly gay. But if you don't want to hear or see about openly gay people, you should be careful when watching SPECTRE. Better close your eyes and ears whenever the characters Q or Denbigh appear on screen...

[SecretAgentFan]

When people heard Nancy Sinatra sing "You only live twice" for the first time - what was their reaction?

 

- that wimpy ballad is not Bondian at all!  It should have been like "Goldfinger" or "Thunderball"!

 

- why did she get that gig?  Flavor of the month, I´d say!  Only because of her last name! 

 

- damn hippies!

 

- Barry says she was unable to sing the song in one take and had to splice many takes together - why choose someone like that?

 

- who strangled the cat?

 

 

When people heard that OHMSS would get an instrumental instead of a main title song - what was their reaction?

 

- John Barry has finally run out of ideas for a decent title song.  And to put a wimpy ballad in the middle of the film, for a montage with Bond stroking puppies... sung by Louis Armstrong?  Where is Tom Jones belting out manly until passing out?

 

- at least they did not ask Nancy Sinatra

 

 

When people heard "Live and let die" for the first time...

 

- what mess is that?  Starting off okay but then this weird chaotic noise happens!  That is not Bond!  That is Macca unable to structure his ideas!

 

- Lennon should have been asked instead.

 

- this is what Bond songs have degenerated to, fodder for kids who have no taste!

 

- I bought the record and threw it in the trash the next day.

 

 

Lulu´s "The Man with the golden gun"?

 

- And I thought "Live and let die" was the absolute lowpoint...

 

- Barry has run out of ideas.

 

- Who strangled the cat?

 

 

Carly Simon´s "Nobody does it better"...

 

- What´s Bondian about that?  Could have been a ballad for a comedy!

 

- Marvin Hamlish writing that and the score?  What´s next - Barbra Streisand?  It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait gay people.  Which is fine with me as long as I can go on pretending that I´m tolerant and alone in my world of decency and moral standards that no one, including me, can or should ever fulfill.

 

 

You want more?  I know you don´t.  But here...

 

Duran Duran´s "A view to a kill"...

 

- It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait teens and gay people.

 

- Who strangled Simon Le Bon?

 

- "Lover´s rosy stain?"  What the heck is this about?  This is not BONDIAN!  Although the brass stings are great.  I would prefer my Bond song to consist only of brass stings.  And the Bond theme.  Over and over.

 

 

Oh yes.  How time lends one a nice perspective...

[Mr_Wint]

I just don't like the media hoopla about it, or anything else for that matter, that all everything and everyone wants today is visibility, to be back on topic, the producers probably calculated also that people like me won't shut their mouths and that's also good for the film. Whatever, I'll just shut up now, peace. (really)

 
I don't recall any media hoopla about Smith being openly gay, and I don't see a statement here. Eon certainly didn't want to stir up anything, the last thing they want is controversies around their movies. They're not exactly after this kind of publicity. They hired a singer to do a theme song. It's people like you that make a fuss about him being openly gay. But if you don't want to hear or see about openly gay people, you should be careful when watching SPECTRE. Better close your eyes and ears whenever the characters Q or Denbigh appear on screen...

The Bond themes have always been about sex so it is nothing strange that this discussion pops up.
From my perspective, James Bond is a male, heterosexual, icon. Both women and gay men admire Bond, so they can both sing love songs to him.

[bebel01]

Agreed.

Edited by bebel01, 30 September 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[columbo]

First time i heard it - Terrible! Not BOND Song.

 

Second time - The song is not bad...but not Bond Song.

 

Now - I like it.... it's not usual .... Its not The BEST THEME but it's better than Another Day to die ...

[Shrublands]

 

Well then how I got to know about Smith? Just something in this song told me to look it up. 

 

 

 

I see, so you deliberately went looking for information and then complained about knowing it.

[bebel01]

Agreed.

Edited by bebel01, 30 September 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Dustin]

<raises eyebrow>

[Marcin]

I admit I'm not a fan of Sam Smith. A year ago I didn't even know that name. I was very sceptical about him writing a Bond theme song. But, we'll, I kind of like it. I can live with the falsetto. My main concern is that it promises more than it delivers. It lacks something.. powerful.
Anyway, it's certainly not the best in the series. But not the worst either.

[Orion]

Yes. What else can I say. But I'm just becoming curious what this new "feminine Bond" phrase hides.

paranoid much...

[univex]

Never mind.

Now there´s a good song for a Bond film. Leonard Cohen would be superb

[Hockey Mask]

When people heard Nancy Sinatra sing "You only live twice" for the first time - what was their reaction?
 
- that wimpy ballad is not Bondian at all!  It should have been like "Goldfinger" or "Thunderball"!
 
- why did she get that gig?  Flavor of the month, I´d say!  Only because of her last name! 
 
- damn hippies!
 
- Barry says she was unable to sing the song in one take and had to splice many takes together - why choose someone like that?
 
- who strangled the cat?
 
 
When people heard that OHMSS would get an instrumental instead of a main title song - what was their reaction?
 
- John Barry has finally run out of ideas for a decent title song.  And to put a wimpy ballad in the middle of the film, for a montage with Bond stroking puppies... sung by Louis Armstrong?  Where is Tom Jones belting out manly until passing out?
 
- at least they did not ask Nancy Sinatra
 
 
When people heard "Live and let die" for the first time...
 
- what mess is that?  Starting off okay but then this weird chaotic noise happens!  That is not Bond!  That is Macca unable to structure his ideas!
 
- Lennon should have been asked instead.
 
- this is what Bond songs have degenerated to, fodder for kids who have no taste!
 
- I bought the record and threw it in the trash the next day.
 
 
Lulu´s "The Man with the golden gun"?
 
- And I thought "Live and let die" was the absolute lowpoint...
 
- Barry has run out of ideas.
 
- Who strangled the cat?
 
 
Carly Simon´s "Nobody does it better"...
 
- What´s Bondian about that?  Could have been a ballad for a comedy!
 
- Marvin Hamlish writing that and the score?  What´s next - Barbra Streisand?  It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait gay people.  Which is fine with me as long as I can go on pretending that I´m tolerant and alone in my world of decency and moral standards that no one, including me, can or should ever fulfill.
 
 
You want more?  I know you don´t.  But here...
 
Duran Duran´s "A view to a kill"...
 
- It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait teens and gay people.
 
- Who strangled Simon Le Bon?
 
- "Lover´s rosy stain?"  What the heck is this about?  This is not BONDIAN!  Although the brass stings are great.  I would prefer my Bond song to consist only of brass stings.  And the Bond theme.  Over and over.
 
 
Oh yes.  How time lends one a nice perspective...

Quoted so it doesn't get missed.

[David_M]

 

When people heard Nancy Sinatra sing "You only live twice" for the first time - what was their reaction?

 

- that wimpy ballad is not Bondian at all!  It should have been like "Goldfinger" or "Thunderball"!

 

- why did she get that gig?  Flavor of the month, I´d say!  Only because of her last name! 

 

- damn hippies!

 

- Barry says she was unable to sing the song in one take and had to splice many takes together - why choose someone like that?

 

- who strangled the cat?

 

 

Etc. etc.

 

Your argument could extend to everything else about these films that gets discussed on the internet, from early plot spoilers ("Another 'this time it's personal' mission?  Spare me!") to teaser posters ("I've seen better fan art!") to final posters ("Another photo montage?!  Bring back painted posters!") to theme songs and everything in between.

 

Before the internet, the release of a teaser poster elicited one response:  "Hey, a Bond movie is coming!"  The theme songs -- which we usually didn't hear until we saw the movie -- got multiple responses: about 5% of the time "Wow!  What an awesome song!", then maybe 20% "Hmm, pretty good, but no 'Goldfinger'" and the other 75% of the time, "Aw yeah, nude chicks on trampolines!"

 

For the large swath of Earth's population that are not rabid Bond fans frequenting message boards, that's all those things still mean; they don't care how the posters are designed or how short Craig's hair is and 9 times out of 10 the only time they'll hear the song is in the movie, and even then most of their attention will be on the visuals.

 

The internet gives us a platform to declare our opinions, every year of our fandom makes us feel more entitled to pronounce what is or is not "Bondian," but in the end our opinions mean no more now than they did in 1962.  Eon's going to do what they want, and that's as it should be.  Heck yeah they picked Nancy Sinatra because of her name (and a recent hit), yes they picked Duran Duran because they were the boy band du jour (though arguably it's the one time they didn't pick a band past their sell-by date) but hey, that's okay, because at the end of the day, these films are about commerce, not art.  Eon is in it to make money, and history shows they don't need anyone's advice on how to do that better.

 

So yeah, all this backseat driving is pointless.  But if your point was that somehow time and perspective will reveal WOTW as a classic ahead of its time, and one of the most beloved songs in the series....well, I guess anything's possible, but it seems pretty unlikely from where I sit.  I predict it'll stay where it is now: in the also-ran pile with the vast majority of Bond songs that are serviceable but after their time in the charts concurrent to the film's release, forgotten by everyone in the world except hard-core Bond fans.

 

In other words, this is a really long thread for something of such trivial consequence.  But that's kind of the whole reason they invented the internet, isn't it?

[Odd Jobbies]

 

As for the falsetto perhaps it's an attempt to give the song an eerie, otherworldly feel appropriate for a film called "Spectre."

 

If the said film were a Bary Gibb biopic.

 

[Odd Jobbies]

When people heard Nancy Sinatra sing "You only live twice" for the first time - what was their reaction?

 

- that wimpy ballad is not Bondian at all!  It should have been like "Goldfinger" or "Thunderball"!

 

- why did she get that gig?  Flavor of the month, I´d say!  Only because of her last name! 

 

- damn hippies!

 

- Barry says she was unable to sing the song in one take and had to splice many takes together - why choose someone like that?

 

- who strangled the cat?

 

 

When people heard that OHMSS would get an instrumental instead of a main title song - what was their reaction?

 

- John Barry has finally run out of ideas for a decent title song.  And to put a wimpy ballad in the middle of the film, for a montage with Bond stroking puppies... sung by Louis Armstrong?  Where is Tom Jones belting out manly until passing out?

 

- at least they did not ask Nancy Sinatra

 

 

When people heard "Live and let die" for the first time...

 

- what mess is that?  Starting off okay but then this weird chaotic noise happens!  That is not Bond!  That is Macca unable to structure his ideas!

 

- Lennon should have been asked instead.

 

- this is what Bond songs have degenerated to, fodder for kids who have no taste!

 

- I bought the record and threw it in the trash the next day.

 

 

Lulu´s "The Man with the golden gun"?

 

- And I thought "Live and let die" was the absolute lowpoint...

 

- Barry has run out of ideas.

 

- Who strangled the cat?

 

 

Carly Simon´s "Nobody does it better"...

 

- What´s Bondian about that?  Could have been a ballad for a comedy!

 

- Marvin Hamlish writing that and the score?  What´s next - Barbra Streisand?  It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait gay people.  Which is fine with me as long as I can go on pretending that I´m tolerant and alone in my world of decency and moral standards that no one, including me, can or should ever fulfill.

 

 

You want more?  I know you don´t.  But here...

 

Duran Duran´s "A view to a kill"...

 

- It seems EON are deliberately trying to bait teens and gay people.

 

- Who strangled Simon Le Bon?

 

- "Lover´s rosy stain?"  What the heck is this about?  This is not BONDIAN!  Although the brass stings are great.  I would prefer my Bond song to consist only of brass stings.  And the Bond theme.  Over and over.

 

 

Oh yes.  How time lends one a nice perspective...

You make good points about the failings of previous themes. Yet i'm sure i'm far from alone in saying that despite these genuine failings they are all much better than WOTW.

 

So for me i'm afraid you've simply underlined just how bad WOTW really is.

 

Perspective certainly changes things, but it may well make this song appear even worse than it does now (if that's possible).

[Emrayfo]

I don't think we're getting a "feminine" Bond, whatever that means. What we have is a Bond with some vulnerability, which has been present throughout the Craig tenure. It is that vulnerability wielded into strength that also makes OHMSS and Lazenby's portrayal so memorable and resonating to me. I like seeing a human hero struggling with real dilemmas and baggage, but who still digs deep to overcome overwhelming odds and win the day.

 

Vulnerability, fear and fallibility and the overcoming of these things are the source of courage and heroism. If you are literally fearless, then you are incapable of courage. Courage is inexplicably linked to fear and mortality and the possibility of failure. Renard in TWINE was not tough or resilient, he just had no feeling or sensation. But Bond in that film could feel pain and injury and so in battling Renard had to deal with and overcome his own very real limitations.

 

Lyrically, WOTW seems a very accurate representation of where the Craig Bond now finds himself and where I expect SPECTRE will take him. Craig has just lost the single most important person and relationship in his life with the death of M in Skyfall. He failed. He is hurt and vulnerable and lonely, and these feelings just pile up on his pre-existing feelings regarding the loss of Vesper. But he will soldier on, because that is what he does. And all this is happening just as he seems likely to meet someone else but also straight before he meets the biggest test of his career in SPECTRE. But Bond is a man for whom obligation and duty will always win out over his personal interests. And this causes existential strife for him. But again he will do what needs to be done. For love of country. For duty. Because it is right. And because he fights for something bigger than himself. But still there is that longing. 

 

WOTW is a love song, but also the song of someone with a tumultuous past, who is worried about losing what he feels he is about to gain. Someone who knows he will risk everything because he must. He'd like to know that someone was there by his side, ready to rescue him and catch his fall, but he will risk everything even if they are not.

 

[New Digs]

Having had some time to listen I think the theme is terrific. I think Spectre is going to be fantastic and the theme will complement the movie perfectly. 

[Orion]

I'm actually liking this theme more as I listen to it, and I started with, "Yeah, I like it, nothing earth shattering, but I like it"

[Walecs]

I don't think we're getting a "feminine" Bond, whatever that means. What we have is a Bond with some vulnerability, which has been present throughout the Craig tenure. It is that vulnerability wielded into strength that also makes OHMSS and Lazenby's portrayal so memorable and resonating to me. I like seeing a human hero struggling with real dilemmas and baggage, but who still digs deep to overcome overwhelming odds and win the day.

 

Vulnerability, fear and fallibility and the overcoming of these things are the source of courage and heroism. If you are literally fearless, then you are incapable of courage. Courage is inexplicably linked to fear and mortality and the possibility of failure. Renard in TWINE was not tough or resilient, he just had no feeling or sensation. But Bond in that film could feel pain and injury and so in battling Renard had to deal with and overcome his own very real limitations.

 

Lyrically, WOTW seems a very accurate representation of where the Craig Bond now finds himself and where I expect SPECTRE will take him. Craig has just lost the single most important person and relationship in his life with the death of M in Skyfall. He failed. He is hurt and vulnerable and lonely, and these feelings just pile up on his pre-existing feelings regarding the loss of Vesper. But he will soldier on, because that is what he does. And all this is happening just as he seems likely to meet someone else but also straight before he meets the biggest test of his career in SPECTRE. But Bond is a man for whom obligation and duty will always win out over his personal interests. And this causes existential strife for him. But again he will do what needs to be done. For love of country. For duty. Because it is right. And because he fights for something bigger than himself. But still there is that longing. 

 

WOTW is a love song, but also the song of someone with a tumultuous past, who is worried about losing what he feels he is about to gain. Someone who knows he will risk everything because he must. He'd like to know that someone was there by his side, ready to rescue him and catch his fall, but he will risk everything even if they are not.

 

This.

[bebel01]

Agreed.

Edited by bebel01, 30 September 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

@Emrayfo well said. Probably that's what "feminine" means here, not that we didn't get this vulnerability in CR. But I feel EON is putting these words-thoughts into my mind, with the trailer, with the song. In OHMSS these things were so subtle yet still there, now the whole thing is in your face. That's why I said it's like tv, for me at least.

 

"We have all the time in the world" is, to me, one of the most beautiful songs ever written and one of the best Bond songs.

 

But the lyrics were "putting these words-thoughts" about having, um, not all the time in the world into everybody´s minds with the same directness.

[Mr_Wint]

When people heard "Live and let die" for the first time...
 
- what mess is that?  Starting off okay but then this weird chaotic noise happens!  That is not Bond!  That is Macca unable to structure his ideas!
 
- Lennon should have been asked instead.
 
- this is what Bond songs have degenerated to, fodder for kids who have no taste!
 
- I bought the record and threw it in the trash the next day.

I'm still saying all that.

[bebel01]

Agreed.

Edited by bebel01, 30 September 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

 

When people heard "Live and let die" for the first time...
 
- what mess is that?  Starting off okay but then this weird chaotic noise happens!  That is not Bond!  That is Macca unable to structure his ideas!
 
- Lennon should have been asked instead.
 
- this is what Bond songs have degenerated to, fodder for kids who have no taste!
 
- I bought the record and threw it in the trash the next day.

I'm still saying all that.

 

 

Interesting.  Proving my point...

[The Dove]

Now that I've heard the song a few times, I'm pleasantly liking it more and more with each listen.Not quite sure how I'd rank it in contrast with the other Bond title songs but once I've figured that out, I plan to do a thread on ranking all the Bond songs..it'll work for me!

[SecretAgentFan]

Now that I've heard the song a few times, I'm pleasantly liking it more and more with each listen.Not quite sure how I'd rank it in contrast with the other Bond title songs but once I've figured that out, I plan to do a thread on ranking all the Bond songs..it'll work for me!

 

Try this one: http://debrief.comma...11#entry1317564