796 replies to this topic

[Satorious]

A while back - I did an edit of Casino Royale using just the opening dots (along with the opening blasts from the now massively overused choral-trailer). After the dots, the iris expands (with no gun-barrel itself) into the first shot from Casino Royale's. Making such a small, simple and seemingly trivial change really added a lot of additional Bondian atmosphere for me personally... I wouldn't be upset if they did this in Skyfall, and we get the full version at the end (providing it works in it's context). QOS in my view - well - that gun-barrel just never worked for me for various reasons. Which is why I guess I am more concerned. But I do get the sense from the opening chords on the Grand Bazaar track that something similar might be up here! Fingers crossed... Only 4 more days before all is revealed (and I guess if you really want to know before that, people can find out after the premiere on Tuesday night).

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

A while back - I did an edit of Casino Royale using just the opening dots (along with the opening blasts from the now massively overused choral-trailer). After the dots, the iris expands (with no gun-barrel itself) into the first shot from Casino Royale's. Making such a small, simple and seemingly trivial change really added a lot of additional Bondian atmosphere for me personally... I wouldn't be upset if they did this in Skyfall, and we get the full version at the end (providing it works in it's context). QOS in my view - well - that gun-barrel just never worked for me for various reasons. Which is why I guess I am more concerned. But I do get the sense from the opening chords on the Grand Bazaar track that something similar might be up here! Fingers crossed... Only 4 more days before all is revealed (and I guess if you really want to know before that, people can find out after the premiere on Tuesday night).

I hope so. In fact, I'd accept the dots opening in the first scene, but not that stupid "normal" movie fade in.

[Mike00spy]

The Bond music and that graphic create quite a strong atmosphere, perhaps that was too conflicting with the mood they needed to go into the first scene. By all accounts, the film is functioning properly - perhaps, just perhaps, they know what they are doing for the good of the film as a whole.

Then go with something like LTK's gunbarrel theme.

It ruins the suspense of actually seeing Bond by, well, actually seeing him. I now patiently wait for the torches and pitchforks.

No pitch forks here, but some questions.

Did Dr. No's gunbarrel ruin the suspense of seeing Sean Connery for the first time?
Did TLD's gunbarrel ruin Timothy Dalton's intro?

I could go on, but I don't find that to be a credible argument at all.

A while back - I did an edit of Casino Royale using just the opening dots (along with the opening blasts from the now massively overused choral-trailer). After the dots, the iris expands (with no gun-barrel itself) into the first shot from Casino Royale's. Making such a small, simple and seemingly trivial change really added a lot of additional Bondian atmosphere for me personally... I wouldn't be upset if they did this in Skyfall, and we get the full version at the end (providing it works in it's context). QOS in my view - well - that gun-barrel just never worked for me for various reasons. Which is why I guess I am more concerned. But I do get the sense from the opening chords on the Grand Bazaar track that something similar might be up here! Fingers crossed... Only 4 more days before all is revealed (and I guess if you really want to know before that, people can find out after the premiere on Tuesday night).

Do you have that edit?

As for the QoS gunbarrel... I think the only reason why people say they "liked" it is probably b/c the entire movie felt "unBondian," so just hearing the Bond theme and seeing something that reminded them of BOND was just probably welcome. Had it actually opened the film, there wouldn't have been a single person who said, "you know, I wonder what would have happened if they ended it with the gunbarrel."

Edited by Mike00spy, 22 October 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Gernot]

I can only repeat myself - it wasn't that bad at the end, it fits to the movies atmosphere at the end...

of course, we all want it back to the start, but when I saw it, it was cool for me. and I liked it more than the QOS-GB! I could also tell you why I thought it was OK, but I don't want to spoil around...

so I would say just watch it, and enjoy it - or not.

I think Mendes & the producers didn't do it just for fun, I'm sure they had discussions about that. So try to keep cool, watch it, and then we can discuss it...

Edited by Gernot, 22 October 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Armand Fancypants]

I could also tell you why I thought it was OK, but I don't want to spoil around...

The Hat returns?

[TheManwiththeWaltherPPK]

I can only repeat myself - it wasn't that bad at the end, it fits to the movies atmosphere at the end...

of course, we all want it back to the start, but when I saw it, it was cool for me. and I liked it more than the QOS-GB! I could also tell you why I thought it was OK, but I don't want to spoil around...

so I would say just watch it, and enjoy it - or not.

I think Mendes & the producers didn't do it just for fun, I'm sure they had discussions about that. So try to keep cool, watch it, and then we can discuss it...

Some reviewers have already let slip that the film's ending

Spoiler

establishes the classic Bond universe.

Edited by TheManwiththeWaltherPPK, 22 October 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[honeyjes]

Lesson learned from here is how indoctrination, stifles free thinking and creativity.

[Satorious]

Do you have that edit?

Blimey, now you're asking a question. I will see if I can dig it out. Should have it on a DVD somewhere, along with a few other Bond experiements I used to have the time to play with. It was probably quite crude, but you'll get the idea!

[JCRendle]

Did Dr. No's gunbarrel ruin the suspense of seeing Sean Connery for the first time?

Remember it was Bob Simmons in Dr. No, not Sean.

[TheManwiththeWaltherPPK]

Did Dr. No's gunbarrel ruin the suspense of seeing Sean Connery for the first time?

Remember it was Bob Simmons in Dr. No, not Sean.

Yeah, the gunbarrel might regain some of its effectiveness as an opening sequence if it returned to the idea of Bond simply being a silhouette in the sequence with his face not visible. Problem is hats are no longer fashionable and we can't use one anymore to help conceal Bond's features

[KM16]

Did Dr. No's gunbarrel ruin the suspense of seeing Sean Connery for the first time?

Remember it was Bob Simmons in Dr. No, not Sean.

lol Yeah, but c'mon. What normal movie-goer is gonna realize that or know that off the top of their head? lol Maybe 1-5% would know or have heard or seen on tv or something or some special, but it's not exactly common knowledge, most people assume it's Connery. Hell, even I did when I first got into the franchise before I did my research. It's still a valid point though. The gunbarrel doesn't really affect their 'reveals.' In fact, the Dalton one still holds up. I love it when he turns to face the camera for the first time.

[x007AceOfSpades]

I'm a huge fan of the Licence to Kill gunbarrel (mainly for the music, which really sets the tone for the film)

That's actually my favorite gunbarrel of all the films.

[KM16]

I'm a huge fan of the Licence to Kill gunbarrel (mainly for the music, which really sets the tone for the film)

That's actually my favorite gunbarrel of all the films.

The music is definitely what makes that gunbarrel stick out from the rest of the pack, and for all the right reasons. That movie is a whole lot of win for me even though quite a few people crap all over it.

[A Kristatos]

The gun barrel at the front tradition is OVER. 3 out of 23 films have now tinkered with the placement. We have a new tradition now. Time to move on.

Wow! I'm starting to get where some people really stand on the gunbarrel issue. Apparently some on these boards not only liked it that gunbarrel was moved, but also are almost disgusted that it has been starting off Bond films for almost 50 years! Well, can't say I agree with anyone who thinks this, but keep in mind there are a lot that don't want it changed. I'm guess I'm just surprised so many people feel this way.

[Mike00spy]

I'm still trying to figure out why they chose the gunbarrel to be THE centerpiece of the advertising campaign and then not put it in the beginning.

[JimmyBond]

The gun barrel at the front tradition is OVER. 3 out of 23 films have now tinkered with the placement. We have a new tradition now. Time to move on.

Wow! I'm starting to get where some people really stand on the gunbarrel issue. Apparently some on these boards not only liked it that gunbarrel was moved, but also are almost disgusted that it has been starting off Bond films for almost 50 years! Well, can't say I agree with anyone who thinks this, but keep in mind there are a lot that don't want it changed. I'm guess I'm just surprised so many people feel this way.

I'm not sure where anyone said they were "disgusted" that it was ever put in front.

[Hockey Mask]

The gun barrel at the front tradition is OVER. 3 out of 23 films have now tinkered with the placement. We have a new tradition now. Time to move on.

Wow! I'm starting to get where some people really stand on the gunbarrel issue. Apparently some on these boards not only liked it that gunbarrel was moved, but also are almost disgusted that it has been starting off Bond films for almost 50 years! Well, can't say I agree with anyone who thinks this, but keep in mind there are a lot that don't want it changed. I'm guess I'm just surprised so many people feel this way.

I have gone back to the first 20 films and edited the gun barrel to the end of the movie where it belongs.

[Armand Fancypants]

I'm still trying to figure out why they chose the gunbarrel to be THE centerpiece of the advertising campaign and then not put it in the beginning.

Because they've integrated it into the 50th anniversary logo itself, and you couldn't have that at the start of the film.

Perhaps a golden gunbarrel would have been appropriate at some point. Kind of like the AFL premiership cup in 1996.

Edited by Armand Fancypants, 23 October 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[KM16]

The gun barrel at the front tradition is OVER. 3 out of 23 films have now tinkered with the placement. We have a new tradition now. Time to move on.

Wow! I'm starting to get where some people really stand on the gunbarrel issue. Apparently some on these boards not only liked it that gunbarrel was moved, but also are almost disgusted that it has been starting off Bond films for almost 50 years! Well, can't say I agree with anyone who thinks this, but keep in mind there are a lot that don't want it changed. I'm guess I'm just surprised so many people feel this way.

I have gone back to the first 20 films and edited the gun barrel to the end of the movie where it belongs.

Tad bit extreme, don'tcha think? Hopefully that's sarcasm lol. If I was gonna edit anything, I'd re-use the gunbarrel from any 3 Brosnan films over DAD's and the Quantum one at the beginning.... actually, I'd edit almost all of Quantum, haha.

[Hockey Mask]

The gun barrel at the front tradition is OVER. 3 out of 23 films have now tinkered with the placement. We have a new tradition now. Time to move on.

Wow! I'm starting to get where some people really stand on the gunbarrel issue. Apparently some on these boards not only liked it that gunbarrel was moved, but also are almost disgusted that it has been starting off Bond films for almost 50 years! Well, can't say I agree with anyone who thinks this, but keep in mind there are a lot that don't want it changed. I'm guess I'm just surprised so many people feel this way.

I have gone back to the first 20 films and edited the gun barrel to the end of the movie where it belongs.

Tad bit extreme, don'tcha think? Hopefully that's sarcasm lol. If I was gonna edit anything, I'd re-use the gunbarrel from any 3 Brosnan films over DAD's and the Quantum one at the beginning.... actually, I'd edit almost all of Quantum, haha.

[Jim]

Still doing this one?

[freemo]

I've always liked the gunbarrel opening. The white dot blinking across the screen makes one feel that what's coming up is something special, and not just another movie.

CASINO ROYALE's use of the image leading into the title sequence was clever, and moving it to the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with that story arc complete and Bond now "fully formed", made sense.

But now I'd be fine if they didn't use it again. The people who make the films now aren't the same people who made the original ones, and they should tread their own path, create their own vision, and make thier own James Bond films, and not be hamstrung by past conventions if it doesn't feel right for what they're doing. I'm critical of the Brosnan era in part because for me they felt like "imitation" Bond films, the new guard trying to imitate the old greats, that whole "continuing the legacy" guff, "What would [insert former Bond film great here] do?", etc, and it all seemed very creatively narrow. With the Daniel Craig era, we've seen the new guard showing us what they can do, making the Bond films they want to make, and it's so far been much more satisfying.

[Gernot]

Some reviewers have already let slip that the film's ending

Spoiler

establishes the classic Bond universe.

that's correct. and that's the reason why it felt OK for me after that scene.

[TheManwiththeWaltherPPK]

I've always liked the gunbarrel opening. The white dot blinking across the screen makes one feel that what's coming up is something special, and not just another movie.

CASINO ROYALE's use of the image leading into the title sequence was clever, and moving it to the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with that story arc complete and Bond now "fully formed", made sense.

But now I'd be fine if they didn't use it again. The people who make the films now aren't the same people who made the original ones, and they should tread their own path, create their own vision, and make thier own James Bond films, and not be hamstrung by past conventions if it doesn't feel right for what they're doing. I'm critical of the Brosnan era in part because for me they felt like "imitation" Bond films, the new guard trying to imitate the old greats, that whole "continuing the legacy" guff, "What would [insert former Bond film great here] do?", etc, and it all seemed very creatively narrow. With the Daniel Craig era, we've seen the new guard showing us what they can do, making the Bond films they want to make, and it's so far been much more satisfying.

Agreed, great post. I feel much the same way about the Brosnan era and the use of formula. I'd rather the filmmakers focus on delving into the character and re-capturing the Fleming spark of great, original stories than try to make Bond films via checklist.

[Walecs]

***actually, I'm being sarcastic, sorry***

Skyfall will be a "proper Bond film" regardless of where the gunbarrel is placed!

You should say "a proper film". Without doubt, it'll be an excelent film, no doubt of that.

Could someoen explain me why the hell did we have the gunbarrel on two posters?

Because the posters lack creativity (which seems to be another gripe of yours) and the film doesn't?

Well said.

I just find it hard to believe that there can be this much complaining regarding something that basically amounts to any other studio logo that appears before a film.

WTF?!?!?!?! "any other logo"? tell me, does Charlie's Angels, Zorro, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, Superman, etc. got a gunbarrel at the beginning?

The GUNBARREL is a JAMES BOND TRADEMARK, the gunbarrel makes James Bond JAMES BOND! Otherwise, they've just taken it out after You Only Live Twice or Diamonds Are Forever to introduce a new Bond. And, if that's "just a logo", why wasn't it taken out like the old United Artists logos from the DVD releases?

Yes, you see Indy grabbing a gun with his whip!

Seriously though, Gunbarrel should be at the very beginning. It was okay for me that they put it before the song in Casino Royale, but just there. Not at the ending or before the song in every movie.

[Double-0-Seven]

I've always liked the gunbarrel opening. The white dot blinking across the screen makes one feel that what's coming up is something special, and not just another movie.

CASINO ROYALE's use of the image leading into the title sequence was clever, and moving it to the end of QUANTUM OF SOLACE, with that story arc complete and Bond now "fully formed", made sense.

But now I'd be fine if they didn't use it again. The people who make the films now aren't the same people who made the original ones, and they should tread their own path, create their own vision, and make thier own James Bond films, and not be hamstrung by past conventions if it doesn't feel right for what they're doing. I'm critical of the Brosnan era in part because for me they felt like "imitation" Bond films, the new guard trying to imitate the old greats, that whole "continuing the legacy" guff, "What would [insert former Bond film great here] do?", etc, and it all seemed very creatively narrow. With the Daniel Craig era, we've seen the new guard showing us what they can do, making the Bond films they want to make, and it's so far been much more satisfying.

Agreed, great post. I feel much the same way about the Brosnan era and the use of formula. I'd rather the filmmakers focus on delving into the character and re-capturing the Fleming spark of great, original stories than try to make Bond films via checklist.

I do agree, but seeing as the gun barrel is something small and amounts for 20 seconds of screen time, why mess with it for the sake of messing with it? At the end of the day, it's true, it makes no difference to the quality of the film if it's at the beginning or the end. Casino Royale might be my favorite Bond film of all time. Still, because of its overall insignificance to the quality of the film, I say just put it at the beginning instead of moving it just to do something different. I'd almost rather them take it out entirely if they are tired of that tradition rather than stick it at the end just to say "oh look, we're breaking the formula and doing something different!"

Plus, nothing beats sitting in a darkened theater and those dots scroll across the screen. That would have been especially appropriate this year. Oh well. I am, however, rather intrigued by the apparent two second shot at the beginning that one cannot miss.

[JimmyBond]

I do agree, but seeing as the gun barrel is something small and amounts for 20 seconds of screen time, why mess with it for the sake of messing with it?

Here's another question, why not mess with it for the sake of messing with it? Freemo put it best, and I agree with him. I'd rather see the producers make their Bond films, and not try have to adhere to anything if they don't want to.

I still maintain that the gunbarrel at the end is Wilson and Barbara's signature for their Bond films.

[KM16]

Meh, I'd still prefer it at or near the beginning. It actually wouldn't be a bad idea to have it incorporated into the main title sequence in every film like they did with Casino Royale... that'd be pretty interesting and every film could use it differently.

[Robertsmiller]

I just watched Goldfinger but I closed my eyes during the gun barrel. I actually enjoyed it just as much. I was too busy focused on the rest of the film to bitch about the gunbarrel like a moron.

[Shaun Forever]

Ooh, what a charmer.