796 replies to this topic

[JCRendle]

***actually, I'm being sarcastic, sorry***

Skyfall will be a "proper Bond film" regardless of where the gunbarrel is placed!

You should say "a proper film". Without doubt, it'll be an excelent film, no doubt of that.

No, I should say a "proper Bond film". It's a Bond film, it is a film about British spy James Bond. This is why I say it'll be a proper Bond film, regardless of the Gunbarrel placement!

Roger Moore didn't order a "Vodka Martini, shaken, not stirred", his Bond films were still proper Bond films, weren't they?

[marktmurphy]

Well Zorro does have a gunbarrel, yes. Almost exactly the same as the gunbarrel, in fact. The Batman films of the 90s had one at the end (Batman and Robin running to camera). The Superman movies ended with Supes flying over the Earth and then smiling to camera. All do the same job as the gunbarrel. Even the Star Wars films have iconic opening graphics.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

It's extremely childish to say, and you have said this, that the film overall will not be as good as 'Tomorrow Never Dies' or 'The World Is Not Enough' mainly because of the alteration of a 10 second logo at the beginning of the film.

My excitement is the same, but no, i don't think that's childish.
"Skyfall" will be better than DAD, but it is already below GE, TND & TWINE. Think whatever you want to think about me guys, childish or not, getting the barrel in the film's reminds to those awkward times where Telefe (an Argie TV channel) broadcasted GoldenEye and for unknown reasons cut the barre out.

[The Dove]

*facepalm* To judge the quality of a Bond film, as a whole, soley on the placement of the damn gunbarrel is utterly rediculous and makes no sense whatsoever!! It really is sad and pathetic that this is becoming such an issue..

[JCRendle]

but it is already below GE, TND & TWINE.

Until you watch the film, there is no way, honestly, that you can say that.

[EyesOnly]

Why is it such a big deal if someone feels so strongly about the gunbarrel placement? It's incredibly unfair for people to be mad about someone else's opinion. This is a forum to discuss your thoughts, feelings, opinions etc. It's just as childish to not accept the view of others and to express how annoyed you are by the comments you don't agree with.

[JCRendle]

I understand, if not agree with, peoples feelings that the gunbarrel has to be at the beginning. What I feel annoyed with is where some believe that the quality of the film, or it's status of a Bond film, is affected by the placement.

Would From Russia with Love, OHMSS, Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights or GoldenEye have been lesser quality films without the Gunbarrel at the beginning? No. Would they still be proper Bond films? Yes.

I too would prefer the gunbarrel to be at the beginning, but it won't affect the quality of the film. If the film is crap then the placement of the gunbarrel won't make a difference. If it's the best Bond film ever made, then - regardless of the Gunbarrel sequences placement - it will still be the best Bond film ever made.

Until you see the film, there is no way you rank the film as better or worse than any other film in the series. You have no credible evidence to back it up.

EyesOnly, if we were being harsh purely on the fact that his opinion was just that the gunbarrel should always be at the start then yes, we would have been acting unfairly, but in this instance that was not the case.

[tdalton]

EyesOnly, if we were being harsh purely on the fact that his opinion was just that the gunbarrel should always be at the start then yes, we would have been acting unfairly, but in this instance that was not the case.

Plus, the same sentiment would work in reverse as well. People also shouldn't be getting upset when people simply mention that they don't care where, or if, the gunbarrel is featured.

[A Kristatos]

WTF?!?!?!?! "any other logo"? tell me, does Charlie's Angels, Zorro, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, Superman, etc. got a gunbarrel at the beginning?

The GUNBARREL is a JAMES BOND TRADEMARK, the gunbarrel makes James Bond JAMES BOND! Otherwise, they've just taken it out after You Only Live Twice or Diamonds Are Forever to introduce a new Bond. And, if that's "just a logo", why wasn't it taken out like the old United Artists logos from the DVD releases?

I couldn't agree with you more Nicolas! Let me first preface though by saying that not having the gunbarrel at the beginning will detract from my enjoyment of the movie, nor will it not be a proper Bond movie without it. That said, my issue with it is what I explained in an earlier post, and that is the issue of change just for the sake of change.

Maybe the best example of an unnecessary change is what took place during the first Mission Impossible movie. You know the one where they made Mr. Phelps a mole in the IMF, this after nine seasons of the person being the brains behind the outfit. Why? What was wrong with leaving things they way they were since nothing was broken?

That's my point regarding the gunbarrel. It's one of the most sacred cinematic tradtions of all time. And I don't think people should be belittling the ones who want to see it in its rightful place. I have no issue if it doesn't people by not being there, but some of us do want it there. I think that's a great institution that should be left alone. If moving or eliminating it means this is a new series of films that differ from the first 20, then why even keep the original Bond theme? They should come up with a new one then. I hope people see where I'm going with this.

And speaking of moles, I'm hoping M isn't the latest leader of secret service agents in the movies to be made the bad person (this based on non-spoiler rumors I have heard, so no one spoil it for me!). That would turn into a much bigger issue with the film than the gunbarrel is!

Edited by A Kristatos, 21 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[JimmyBond]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

[A Kristatos]

Why is it such a big deal if someone feels so strongly about the gunbarrel placement? It's incredibly unfair for people to be mad about someone else's opinion. This is a forum to discuss your thoughts, feelings, opinions etc. It's just as childish to not accept the view of others and to express how annoyed you are by the comments you don't agree with.

Thanks EyesOnly! I have a feeling I will be flamed for the same reason very shortly.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

WTF?!?!?!?! "any other logo"? tell me, does Charlie's Angels, Zorro, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, Superman, etc. got a gunbarrel at the beginning?

The GUNBARREL is a JAMES BOND TRADEMARK, the gunbarrel makes James Bond JAMES BOND! Otherwise, they've just taken it out after You Only Live Twice or Diamonds Are Forever to introduce a new Bond. And, if that's "just a logo", why wasn't it taken out like the old United Artists logos from the DVD releases?

I couldn't agree with you more Nicolas! Let me first preface though by saying that not having the gunbarrel at the beginning will detract from my enjoyment of the movie, nor will it not be a proper Bond movie without it. That said, my issue with it is what I explained in an earlier post, and that is the issue of change just for the sake of change.

Maybe the best example of an unnecessary change is what took place during the first Mission Impossible movie. You know the one where they made Mr. Phelps a mole in the IMF, this after nine seasons of the person being the brains behind the outfit. Why? What was wrong with leaving things they way they were since nothing was broken?

That's my point regarding the gunbarrel. It's one of the most sacred cinematic tradtions of all time. And I don't think people should be belittling the ones who want to see it in its rightful place. I have no issue if it doesn't people by not being there, but some of us do want it there. I think that's a great institution that should be left alone. If moving or eliminating it means this is a new series of films that differ from the first 20, then why even keep the original Bond theme? They should come up with a new one then. I hope people see where I'm going with this.

And speaking of moles, I'm hoping M isn't the latest leader of secret service agents in the movies to be made the bad person (this based on non-spoiler rumors I have heard, so no one spoil it for me!). That would turn into a much bigger issue with the film than the gunbarrel is!

Why is it such a big deal if someone feels so strongly about the gunbarrel placement? It's incredibly unfair for people to be mad about someone else's opinion. This is a forum to discuss your thoughts, feelings, opinions etc. It's just as childish to not accept the view of others and to express how annoyed you are by the comments you don't agree with.

Exactly! besides everyone here is misunderstanding me: I haven't seen Skyfall yet and in fact I think it's gonna be one of the best Bonds ever, but it has already a -1 point if the barrel is at the end. So, if I think it's a 10/10, I'll give it a 9/10, pure mathematics.

The gunbarrel is one of the things I most love about the James Bond films, because it was the first image of my hero I saw when I watched GoldenEye. I was happy to know the tradition was kept on TND and TWINE, and much more happy when I saw the old films in VHS and discovered that no matter the era or actor, the barrel was there right after the UA/MGM logo.

[A Kristatos]

I understand, if not agree with, peoples feelings that the gunbarrel has to be at the beginning. What I feel annoyed with is where some believe that the quality of the film, or it's status of a Bond film, is affected by the placement.

Would From Russia with Love, OHMSS, Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights or GoldenEye have been lesser quality films without the Gunbarrel at the beginning? No. Would they still be proper Bond films? Yes.

I too would prefer the gunbarrel to be at the beginning, but it won't affect the quality of the film. If the film is crap then the placement of the gunbarrel won't make a difference. If it's the best Bond film ever made, then - regardless of the Gunbarrel sequences placement - it will still be the best Bond film ever made.

Until you see the film, there is no way you rank the film as better or worse than any other film in the series. You have no credible evidence to back it up.

EyesOnly, if we were being harsh purely on the fact that his opinion was just that the gunbarrel should always be at the start then yes, we would have been acting unfairly, but in this instance that was not the case.

And I think this is where we continue to have so much missunderstanding around here. I have not seen one person defending the gunbarrel at the beginning saying it would affect the quality of the film. They just think it's a great piece of cinematic tradition that shouldn't be tampered around with beyond CR. That's all. If you could point out one person that said that a misplaced gunbarrel would ruin the quality of the film, please show me the post.

Edited by A Kristatos, 21 October 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

Of course! Babs and Wilson's idea! They started producing the Bond films with Casino Royale!

Hey, weren't there some films played by an Irishman named Pierce Brosnan who started with the gunbarrel? Cubby produced those, right?... wait... let me see the film credits.... "produced by Michael G Wilson & Barbara Broccoli".

Oh, no, they've also produced these films!

[Matt_13]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

That's what I was hoping for myself.

[JimmyBond]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

Of course! Babs and Wilson's idea! They started producing the Bond films with Casino Royale!

Hey, weren't there some films played by an Irishman named Pierce Brosnan who started with the gunbarrel? Cubby produced those, right?... wait... let me see the film credits.... "produced by Michael G Wilson & Barbara Broccoli".

Oh, no, they've also produced these films!

Yeah, and they were also pretty generic, though I still enjoyed them. I'm pretty sure Wilson and Brocoli were under enormous pressure from the studio to deliver safe, generic films at the time. It just strikes me that from Casino Royale on they've seemed to have gotten more leverage with the studio. I think it's no small coincidence that's when Sony stepped in and started releasing the films.

[S K Y F A L L]

LOL lots of Star Trek fans here.

I love the description of the SF gun barrel and logo, sounds great. I'm so excited for SF that I could careless about the gun barrel placement. Craig's film will have their own style of gun barrel and with any hope it will return to the beginning of the films with the next actor. I wish I was in the t-shirt business cause I'm sitting on a golden idea by spoofing the "Han shot first" t shirts with "Bond shots first."

[JimmyBond]

I think a great idea for a shirt would be "Bond shot last" and show a shot of Craig's gunbarrels. You know, cause they close out the film.

[A Kristatos]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

I agree that may be the actual reason they are doing it. But I really don't agree with them if that's their reason, and again, there was nothing wrong with it at the beginning. Just because Superman and all the others put their symbolism at the end doesn't mean Babs and Wilson have to.

[007jamesbond]

"The world will make its judgment when the film is released on Friday, although Craig confirms Mendes has still been editing footage over the last fortnight. It is a visually arresting and unexpectedly emotional spectacle, but audiences will also see a sly paean to the craft of acting."

http://www.guardian....g?newsfeed=true

sorry if this been posted but maybe the GB in beginning? Sam Mendes still editing the film must be something

[sharpshooter]

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

That's what I was hoping for myself.

Me three. They started pushing the envelope with CR. As long as its there, points will not be deducted from my review scores.

For me, 10 seconds of footage before a movie doesn't hold more weight than the runtime itself. If people want to judge films that way, they can. But I'm not in that business.

[Vauxhall]

My instinct on that is they won't have changed the gunbarrel. The decision to keep it at the end of the movie will not have been taken lightly at all, and the fact that some fans would respond negatively to the decision is not going to have been a surprise to the filmmakers, therefore I don't see why they'd change it now. It's only been mentioned in one proper review, as far as I know, which suggests most non-Bond fanatics don't care or didn't even notice.

Maybe they've changed it because they want to start a new Bond tradition. Opening the film with it was Cubby's tradition, and now closing the film with it will be Babs and Wilson's idea.

That's what I was hoping for myself.

Me three. They started pushing the envelope with CR. As long as its there, points will not be deducted from my review scores.

Me four. A new tradition works for me. As I've stated previously, I'll be much more annoyed if the gunbarrel for BOND 24 is at the beginning. Leave it be, at least for Craig's era.

[tdalton]

I would imagine that, if they're going to have to listen to all of the nonsense surrounding this issue, that they've got a pretty good reason for putting it there. I think it would be pretty cool if they had it at the end and it faded into the 50th Anniversary gunbarrel logo, the Bond theme rising to full blast, and the words "James Bond Will Return" were to flash up on the screen before it heads into the credits. Would be a good way to bookend 50 years of films and kick off another 50.

[Armand Fancypants]

We actually haven't had a proper gunbarrel since GoldenEye, to be honest.

Arnold's orchestration for TND and TWINE is all wrong, it doesn't have the "morse code" sound. When he finally did do it, we had to have the friggin CGI bullet.

[Vauxhall]

If we're back to talking about "proper gunbarrels", the inclusion of Bob Simmons in some was very disappointing. Perhaps we should campaign for Gary Powell to do the gunbarrel sequence for BOND 24...

[S K Y F A L L]

They can't end every Bond film on the Bond theme, I could understand if they do for SF but I'm hoping they'll returning to having an ending credits song sooner then later and I don't think the gun barrel would work in that case.

[tdalton]

They can't end every Bond film on the Bond theme, I could understand if they do for SF but I'm hoping they'll returning to having an ending credits song sooner then later and I don't think the gun barrel would work in that case.

They can't do it every time, but I think there are ways in which to make its use at the end of Skyfall rather memorable (in a good way) if they do indeed have the gunbarrel at the end.

[JimmyBond]

Arnold's orchestration for TND and TWINE is all wrong, it doesn't have the "morse code" sound. When he finally did do it, we had to have the friggin CGI bullet.

Going by that logic, The Spy Who Loved Me doesn't have a proper gunbarrel either.

[Vauxhall]

Going by that logic, The Spy Who Loved Me doesn't have a proper gunbarrel either.

Further analysis will ultimately reveal that curiously none of the James Bond films actually have a proper gunbarrel. Very odd trend.

[A Kristatos]

We actually haven't had a proper gunbarrel since GoldenEye, to be honest.

Arnold's orchestration for TND and TWINE is all wrong, it doesn't have the "morse code" sound. When he finally did do it, we had to have the friggin CGI bullet.

And don't forget that awful techno beat that drowned the whole thing out!