1894 replies to this topic

[mailedfist]

This is by far and away, and without a shadow of a doubt, the weakest Bond score ever.

What utter bollocks. Talk about hyperbole.

Sorry, i'm struggling to think of a worse one. TMWTGG is one of Barry's weakest (to my mind) but even that has some rather beautiful and distinctive moments. I guess the one score that really divides opinion is GoldenEye. That I found hard to take at the time but even then there were tracks that stood out. I go back to We Share the Same Passions and the Severnaya Suite but there is nothing but Severine on Skyfall that I would ever come back to.

Interesting that a lot of newbies here do not like the score.

A fair point. I promise I'm not Mr Arnold ; )

In my case the real disappointment is that so much of Skyfall Mendes seems to be getting right. The score is a pretty major thing to get wrong....

[The Shark]

This is by far and away, and without a shadow of a doubt, the weakest Bond score ever.

What utter bollocks. Talk about hyperbole.

Sorry, i'm struggling to think of a worse one.

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
LICENSE TO KILL
CASINO ROYALE
DR. NO
NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN
THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
TOMORROW NEVER DIES

That's what I'd suggest, though it's all very subjective.

Welcome to forums, mailedfist.

[QOS4EVER]

Casino Royale Is a pretty good score :@

PS: Excited . I just bought the score.A bit skeptical at first paying that kind of money for a score. Anyway I will have a listen and will sound off later

[The Shark]

Casino Royale Is a pretty good score :@

Compared to Newman's SKYFALL it's about as fun as trip to the dentists.

[mailedfist]

Hi Shark,

I agree that several of the scores you've nominated are weak but I still think that they have more standout moments than Skyfall. TSWLM is a funny one. A very messy score that jars with its mix of 70's sound and more traditional tracks. But you know what, for all it's miss-fires it has - Bond 77. A wholly cheesy, over the top track to be sure. But it works onscreen and is has an energy that makes it a joy to listen to. There is nothing on Skyfall that grabs me. There is no Bond 77 moment.

I gather you don't hold David Arnold in high esteem ; ) I do understand people find him derivative and lacking in subtlety. But for all that, his scores have a real energy. When he is on form his action cues are thrilling. There is nothing in Skyfall that says to me - Bond is Back!

Newman's score is subtle, but perhaps too much so? I suspect it will work better on screen. I guess we will see on Friday....

This is by far and away, and without a shadow of a doubt, the weakest Bond score ever.

What utter bollocks. Talk about hyperbole.

Sorry, i'm struggling to think of a worse one.

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
LICENSE TO KILL
CASINO ROYALE
DR. NO
NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN
THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
TOMORROW NEVER DIES

That's what I'd suggest, though it's all very subjective.

Welcome to forums, mailedfist.

[QuantumOfRoyale]

Interesting that a lot of newbies here do not like the score.

I love it!!

I think David Arnold's classic Bond sensibilities would've worked better here, but I love Newman's work here on its own, and I suspect it will work even better in the film itself!

I'd probably give it a B+

[Harmsway]

Casino Royale Is a pretty good score :@

Compared to Newman's SKYFALL it's about as fun as trip to the dentists.

I know you loathe CASINO ROYALE's score with the intensity of a thousand suns, but, personally speaking, I don't think it's really any worse than the SKYFALL score. They're about comparitive in terms of the proportion of good moments to dull, monotonous ones, and as far as I'm concerned, SKYFALL never manages to be as rousing as CASINO ROYALE does during its highlights.

[SecretAgentFan]

That might be due to the effect it is supposed to achieve.

While CASINO ROYALE ended in full melodrama (which I liked), SKYFALL seems to end in restrained drama. Maybe the full-blown power-scoring of CR would have worked against Mendes´ intentions.

[Harmsway]

That might be due to the effect it is supposed to achieve.

While CASINO ROYALE ended in full melodrama (which I liked), SKYFALL seems to end in restrained drama. Maybe the full-blown power-scoring of CR would have worked against Mendes´ intentions.

The "highlights" of CASINO ROYALE's score that I'm thinking of aren't the melodramatic bits. I'm glad Newman's score doesn't contain anything like the Vesper theme. I'm thinking more of stuff like "African Rundown," which is an infinitely more rousing action cue than any of the largely tedious action cues Newman's score contains.

[SecretAgentFan]

I like those CR-tracks, too.

But I do believe that Newman´s more subtle scoring allows for a different atmosphere that might be beneficial to SKYFALL since it is different and surprising.

That does not mean that I want every Bond film to sound like that from now on.

However, despite being a fan of Arnold´s work, a little shaking up the conventions might be just what the Bond films need.

[Skull Kid]

As one of the newbies who was negative towards the initial 30 second samples to the point of signing up to express my negativity, i will say having listened to the suites and then the score in full now, I am pleasantly surprised. For the most part, it is very good. What i mistook for lack of melody, laziness etc in tracks are now replaced with a dark elegance. It still does not approach Barry in terms of interesting underscore, but it does it's best to conjure that sort of atmosphere. The sleazy romanticism and fantastical escapism that Barry had in spades is kinda absent, but it does have a certain casual suaveness to it.

I still have problems with some of the action material though. From what i can guess mostly the stuff in the London/Scotland scenes. It's more infected with the Zimmer obnoxiousness... But overall I regret slightly my initial negativity, this is a decent score. It's just a shame it could have been truly great with some better thematic material and better action scoring.

On a separate note, that ClassicFM show from Friday is excellent. Yet another reminder of the untouchable genius of john Barry! But well worth a listen.

[QOS4EVER]

Casino Royale Is a pretty good score :@

Compared to Newman's SKYFALL it's about as fun as trip to the dentists.

That coming from a person who enjoys Goldeneye's score
PS: I am not done listening to the Newman's entire score yet. A lot to do today.As soon as I am done I'll give my feedbacks here.

[Harmsway]

But I do believe that Newman´s more subtle scoring allows for a different atmosphere that might be beneficial to SKYFALL since it is different and surprising.

Well, as I said to Sharky, I don't think atmosphere always registers in the SKYFALL score, at least as far as the action cues are concerned. This may be due to the mix; sometimes there are very interesting elements in the orchestration that seem a bit buried. Many of the tracks would benefit from remixing.

However, despite being a fan of Arnold´s work, a little shaking up the conventions might be just what the Bond films need.

I wish it shook them up a bit more. This represents a break with the standard Arnold approach to SKYFALL (though not in every place; there are elements of Newman's score that you swear could come from Arnold, and I'm not just talking about the use of "The Name's Bond" cue), but not a significant break with conventions of contemporary action film scoring.

[MattofSteel]

On a separate note, that ClassicFM show from Friday is excellent. Yet another reminder of the untouchable genius of john Barry! But well worth a listen.

Is there a convenient link to the full show online?

EDIT: Listening via their on-demand player. Doesn't seem to allow you to skip ahead, which is a bit annoying.

[junkanoo]

Interesting that a lot of newbies here do not like the score.

A fair point. I promise I'm not Mr Arnold ; )

In my case the real disappointment is that so much of Skyfall Mendes seems to be getting right. The score is a pretty major thing to get wrong....

As one of the newbies who was negative towards the initial 30 second samples to the point of signing up to express my negativity ....snip

Not to worry guys, new or old posters are ALL welcome to post. There is always an initial impulse that get us to sign up at a forum and we need not apologize for what that might be. And there are many of us here that will welcome opinions that are different from our own without wondering as to any agenda.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

[MattofSteel]

The opening of "Breadcrumbs" is sort of a re-orchestration of it. Not sure if the cue itself appears in sampled form, though.

[Vauxhall]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

Someone who saw a press screening sent a message to David Arnold on Twitter and said that they thought they'd heard his version of the Bond theme. He then replied to confirm they'd licensed it for use in SKYFALL. Shortly after, we received confirmation via the music credits, so it appears that it is used somewhere but it's not clear when.

(Tried to send you a PM, but it appears your inbox might be full? I was wondering if your official document has a full cast list for SKYFALL included in it and whether you'd be able to share this?)

[junkanoo]

The opening of "Breadcrumbs" is sort of a re-orchestration of it. Not sure if the cue itself appears in sampled form, though.

Well ... in a way. But isn't it more straightforward to suggest that both The Name's Bond ... James Bond and Breadcrumbs are both re-orchestrations of the "James Bond Theme" ... each bringing their own interpretation to the Norman track?

Edited by junkanoo, 21 October 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[MattofSteel]

The opening of "Breadcrumbs" is sort of a re-orchestration of it. Not sure if the cue itself appears in sampled form, though.

Well ... in a way. But isn't it more straightforward to suggest that both You Know My Name and Breadcrumbs are both re-orchestrations of the "James Bond Theme" ... each bringing their own interpretation to the Norman track?

The 'Breacrumbs' opening is pretty distinctly the same thing, though. It becomes a new/standard JBT rendition after that, but the basic interpretation/tune of the opening is...well, kinda identical.

[junkanoo]

The opening of "Breadcrumbs" is sort of a re-orchestration of it. Not sure if the cue itself appears in sampled form, though.

Well ... in a way. But isn't it more straightforward to suggest that both The Name's Bond .. James Bond and Breadcrumbs are both re-orchestrations of the "James Bond Theme" ... each bringing their own interpretation to the Norman track?

The 'Breadcrumbs' opening is pretty distinctly the same thing, though. It becomes a new/standard JBT rendition after that, but the basic interpretation/tune of the opening is...well, kinda identical.

Interesting. I guess I see them as different enough to throw Newman a bone. I do think Breadcrumbs is more forward cymbals and forward bongos working to a rather nice crescendo whereas Arnold's version (I meant "The Name's Bond ... James Bond") is a faster tempo, 'swings' more and a much more brass forward version. But I think we can agree that the Breadcrumbs opening isn't a game changer, either way.

I just pulled up the City of Prague Philharmonic version .... other than the solo trumpet and if you added bongos to it ... the difference between that and the beginning of Breadcrumbs .... well .... it's not much.

Edited by junkanoo, 21 October 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[Harmsway]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

[junkanoo]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

How so?

[sharpshooter]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

How so?

Arnold's cue is referenced at the beginning.

Some of my favourite cues from Newman's score:

New Digs
Breadcrumbs
The Moors
Old Dog, New Tricks
Komodo Dragon
Quartermaster
Severine
Modigliani
Mother
Voluntary Retirement
Day Wasted
Shanghai Drive
Adrenaline
She's Mine
Enquiry
Jellyfish
Silhouette
Someone Usually Dies
Brave New World
The Chimera

Edited by sharpshooter, 22 October 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[gkgyver]

The opening of "Breadcrumbs" is sort of a re-orchestration of it. Not sure if the cue itself appears in sampled form, though.

Well ... in a way. But isn't it more straightforward to suggest that both The Name's Bond .. James Bond and Breadcrumbs are both re-orchestrations of the "James Bond Theme" ... each bringing their own interpretation to the Norman track?

The 'Breadcrumbs' opening is pretty distinctly the same thing, though. It becomes a new/standard JBT rendition after that, but the basic interpretation/tune of the opening is...well, kinda identical.

Interesting. I guess I see them as different enough to throw Newman a bone. I do think Breadcrumbs is more forward cymbals and forward bongos working to a rather nice crescendo whereas Arnold's version (I meant "The Name's Bond ... James Bond") is a faster tempo, 'swings' more and a much more brass forward version.

Well, if you want to say that the Arnold recording has more life to it, then yes, I agree.
Of course both are otherwise identical.

[junkanoo]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

How so?

Arnold's cue is referenced at the beginning.

How so?

[The Shark]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

How so?

Arnold's cue is referenced at the beginning.

How so?

It's basically the same cue, minus some drastic tempo changes and re-orchestration.

And yes, "Breadcrumbs" beats the living daylights out of "The Name's Bond... James Bond." A lot more grit and swagger to it, IMO. In fact it reminds me more of "Bond on Bongos" from FRWL.

[deth]

Guys, I've read the end credits in an official document and Arnold's "The Name is Bond, James Bond" from "Casino Royale" is there. Is it used in the film?

It's directly quoted in "Breadcrumbs."

How so?

Arnold's cue is referenced at the beginning.

How so?

you know how.


Anyway, gkgyver... I agree completely that the Arnold recording has more life to it... so much more vigor. The Newman recording is like a lamb in comparison.

[marktmurphy]

I can promise you I won't. I'd be surprised if anyone but the most diehard of Newman fans ever gives this soundtrack another spin. It's a hugely forgettable effort.

I've listened to it a number of times. I like the feel of it.

[gkgyver]

Anyway, gkgyver... I agree completely that the Arnold recording has more life to it... so much more vigor. The Newman recording is like a lamb in comparison.

It's like comparing the original Barry version to a lame Nic Raine recording.

And it also sounds ... small. Like the orchestra was bored.