1894 replies to this topic

[Matt_13]

Will it be in the film or the end credits again? They could have just used it for the gunbarrel sequence at the end.

[The Shark]

That cue is, frankly, kind of a definitive rendition of the James Bond Theme - in my humble opinion. It's basically just a contemporary re-recording/re-mastering/whatever of the original Dr. No recording.

Hardly. It's basically the previous Arnold Bond themes without the breakbeats, plus Pete Lockett on the bongos. The original was just a 9 piece brass section, 5 saxes, percussion, drum set, acoustic bass and Vick Flick on guitar. Even his Shaken & Stirred take on the theme was closer to the 62 version, since the opening doesn't have the silly brass glissandos and crash cymbals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvL04bra06g

This is the closest I've found to a re-recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5QNstOGyM0&feature=plcp

Like, can Newman record a better version of the standalone theme if he tried? Or would it be different for difference's sake?

Hopefully the later. Nothing worse than Bond-by-numbers.

[MattofSteel]

Yeah, but sometimes - for some of us - we want things by the number. Especially when it comes to 007.

EON Marketing, you can contact me via email about licensing that as a tagline for Bond 24's sure-to-be-gallingly-lacklustre poster campaign.

[gkgyver]

Arnold's music at least is entertaining.

Eh, no.

I'll leave it at that.

Oh, come on.

50% of Arnold's Bond scores may be forgettable, but some of the rest is very nice, and I don't feel like dozing off.

[Satorious]

Surely EON can use any of Arnold's existing Bond material anyway. Is there any confirmation other than a few tweets which could be misconstrued that this is actually legit anyway? He said it "sounded" like it, not that it actually was? Anyway, I was hoping for all new material - I'm not a fan of recycling old scores in new movies. The third Bourne movie seemed to rehash some of Powell's earlier score and it really takes me out of those scenes personally.

[DamnCoffee]

Well Arnold did say on twitter that they licensed it for the film, so I'm not sure. I'm hoping it's just used for the end credits if anything.

[gkgyver]

That cue is, frankly, kind of a definitive rendition of the James Bond Theme - in my humble opinion. It's basically just a contemporary re-recording/re-mastering/whatever of the original Dr. No recording.

Hardly. It's basically the previous Arnold Bond themes without the breakbeats, plus Pete Lockett on the bongos. The original was just a 9 piece brass section, 5 saxes, percussion, drum set, acoustic bass and Vick Flick on guitar. Even his Shaken & Stirred take on the theme was closer to the 62 version, since the opening doesn't have the silly brass glissandos and crash cymbals.

How is that silly exactly?
Also, what is wrong with giving the theme a new, slightly larger sounding, polish? The 60s version does not go away. Also, using a direct re-recording of it, with the exact same instrumentation would probably sound a bit dated if used in the context of the movie.

[MattofSteel]

Incorrect. Arnold's not a classically-trained composer and he didn't create a new Bond mastersound that eclipsed everything John Barry ever did or dreamed of doing. Thus, he's terrible and his work should be entirely dismissed. Every time he has a trumpet make a noise, it's cheap imitation.

Am I interpreting the Arnold-hate right?

Arnold's music at least is entertaining.

Eh, no.

I'll leave it at that.

Oh, come on.

50% of Arnold's Bond scores may be forgettable, but some of the rest is very nice, and I don't feel like dozing off.

[delfloria]

How come we have not heard from someone who saw the film to give us an opinion as to whether it worked or not?

[Matt_13]

How come we have not heard from someone who saw the film to give us an opinion as to whether it worked or not?

I think only the die hards will be able to pick out Arnold's music.

[The Shark]

Arnold's music at least is entertaining.

Eh, no.

I'll leave it at that.

Oh, come on.

50% of Arnold's Bond scores may be forgettable, but some of the rest is very nice, and I don't feel like dozing off.

I'd say there's about 15% worth listening to, the rest of it being forgettable junk. I'm not blown over by the Newman samples either, but at their best they're refreshingly current and distinct from Arnold. With the previous two films, I was watching Craig as Bond but hearing Brosnan. Finally he'll have his own sound, if only for one movie.

[The Shark]

That cue is, frankly, kind of a definitive rendition of the James Bond Theme - in my humble opinion. It's basically just a contemporary re-recording/re-mastering/whatever of the original Dr. No recording.

Hardly. It's basically the previous Arnold Bond themes without the breakbeats, plus Pete Lockett on the bongos. The original was just a 9 piece brass section, 5 saxes, percussion, drum set, acoustic bass and Vick Flick on guitar. Even his Shaken & Stirred take on the theme was closer to the 62 version, since the opening doesn't have the silly brass glissandos and crash cymbals.

How is that silly exactly?

The opening stabs should be like gunshots. Sharp and precise. Even Serra kept that feel for his gunbarrel.

Also, what is wrong with giving the theme a new, slightly larger sounding, polish?

• Craig ain't Brosnan. He has his own personality, which is far from removed from Brozza's slick cloths model.
• If you're going to remove the theme's edges and grit, why not go all the way? Why settle for some half-arsed compromise?
• Matt was talking about CR's End Credits arrangement being pretty much a rerecording - which is clearly wrong. That's what we're talking about here. I would rather a new composer do his own take on the piece, but if you're going to recreate the original, do it right.

The 60s version does not go away. Also, using a direct re-recording of it, with the exact same instrumentation would probably sound a bit dated if used in the context of the movie.

Exactly. Just as giving us a rehashed Brosnan arrangement (minus drum loops) at the tail end of a score practically drenched in electronics, comes off as anachronistic, lazy, and plain uninspired. It's 2006, not 1964 or 1997, for Christ's sake.

[THX-007]

Like, can Newman record a better version of the standalone theme if he tried? Or would it be different for difference's sake?

Like I said before, there is a version of the Bond theme in Newman's score in the track "Breadcrumbs." We'll have to wait to see the film and/or buy the soundtrack to hear the whole thing.

[MattofSteel]

Fine, "re-recording" is incorrect and too oversimplified an evaluation. I just mean it's the straight-up James Bond Theme with all the basic parts and sections in their usual place. No new Moby-esque or Paul Oakenfold-ish bridge sections. It's not truncated, or significantly expanded (barring the opening 40 seconds during Bond's little walk-up to Mr. White).

Again, for all the criticism - not one alternative suggestion of what, specifically, might be better.

[Vauxhall]

Quite late to this, but the use of Arnold's theme seems pretty irregular. Does anyone have an inkling of whether that was likely to be at the behest of EON, Sony, Newman or Mendes?

[JCRendle]

Don't forget Sony, Vauxhall.

[JimmyBond]

Maybe Newman liked that version of the theme, and felt like using it in his score?

[Vauxhall]

Don't forget Sony, Vauxhall.

Good point, thanks. Amended now.

Maybe Newman liked that version of the theme, and felt like using it in his score?

Yes, that's actually what I was wondering, and why the question came to mind. That would seem quite odd for an acclaimed composer to use another's work out of choice, but tough to say definitively, I guess.

[MattofSteel]

Maybe Newman liked that version of the theme, and felt like using it in his score?

Entirely possible.

Quite late to this, but the use of Arnold's theme seems pretty irregular. Does anyone have an inkling of whether that was likely to be at the behest of EON, Sony, Newman or Mendes?

Why would it have to be exclusively one of their respective decisions, and not a communal one?

[The Shark]

As I said before - ask Tony Lewis.

Again, for all the criticism - not one alternative suggestion of what, specifically, might be better.

A Newman Bond theme as contemporary as George Martin's rendition in 73 was, with no traces of Arnold. Something so hot that it'd become one of the most sampled instrumentals of 2012.

[Twingolot]

Sorry I'm not a musicologist but I have an opinion on the Bond scores for sure. May be I'm the only one but I think Arnold improved his staff since CR. The last part of TND and the complete scores of TWINE and DAD were a great proof of incompetence for me, although the first part of TND was quite enjoyable (well, it had the Bond theme continuously).
So I was realy pissed off when I learnt he would score CR too. However, I have to admit he did a real good job for this movie. There were some cues which were highly forgettable but I loved the way he finally used the Bond theme, not again and again like in the previous movies but with little touches of the "vamp" section. As for the final Bond theme, I didn't care really, it was a good concert version. On QoS he did a good job too, he almost managed to create some melody you can remember. That's what I call improvement. The only problem he still has: he just can't compose for action sequences. That's all.

Edited by Twingolot, 14 October 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Vauxhall]

Quite late to this, but the use of Arnold's theme seems pretty irregular. Does anyone have an inkling of whether that was likely to be at the behest of EON, Sony, Newman or Mendes?

Why would it have to be exclusively one of their respective decisions, and not a communal one?

No reason. I have absolutely no idea how these things work so was just wondering, and deferring to the expertise of others.

[MattofSteel]

Quite late to this, but the use of Arnold's theme seems pretty irregular. Does anyone have an inkling of whether that was likely to be at the behest of EON, Sony, Newman or Mendes?

Why would it have to be exclusively one of their respective decisions, and not a communal one?

No reason. I have absolutely no idea how these things work so was just wondering, and deferring to the expertise of others.

Ha. Same. Merely suggesting it was likely the product of some larger discussion.

[Royal Dalton]

I suspect this has come about because some bright spark decided to stick the gunbarrel onto the end of the film after the score had been recorded and they needed some music to bung on over the top of it.

[MattofSteel]

As I said before - ask Tony Lewis.

Again, for all the criticism - not one alternative suggestion of what, specifically, might be better.

A Newman Bond theme as contemporary as George Martin's rendition in 73 was, with no traces of Arnold. Something so hot that it'd become one of the most sampled instrumentals of 2012.

That's a wonderful idea. I meant, specifically, a musical alternative. What technically would be better than what Arnold's done?

(Because, apparently, using instruments similar to the ones John Barry used to play a theme song in a fairly unchanged and iconic way is a crime against film scores).

[PeteNeon]

I suspect this has come about because some bright spark decided to stick the gunbarrel onto the end of the film after the score had been recorded and they needed some music to bung on over the top of it.

It's in the film more than once.

[MattofSteel]

You've mentioned that a few times, PeteNeon. What's your source on that?

[The Shark]

As I said before - ask Tony Lewis.

Again, for all the criticism - not one alternative suggestion of what, specifically, might be better.

A Newman Bond theme as contemporary as George Martin's rendition in 73 was, with no traces of Arnold. Something so hot that it'd become one of the most sampled instrumentals of 2012.

That's a wonderful idea. I meant, specifically, a musical alternative. What technically would be better than what Arnold's done?

I have my own idea on how I'd revamp the theme, but I don't want to share it on a public forum, in case anyone might steal it. I'll save it for Bond 29.

[PeteNeon]

You've mentioned that a few times, PeteNeon. What's your source on that?

https://twitter.com/DavidGArnold/status/257230124733317120

Admittedly, he might be hearing things, but I doubt it.

[MattofSteel]

As I said before - ask Tony Lewis.

Again, for all the criticism - not one alternative suggestion of what, specifically, might be better.

A Newman Bond theme as contemporary as George Martin's rendition in 73 was, with no traces of Arnold. Something so hot that it'd become one of the most sampled instrumentals of 2012.

That's a wonderful idea. I meant, specifically, a musical alternative. What technically would be better than what Arnold's done?

I have my own idea on how I'd revamp the theme, but I don't want to share it on a public forum, in case anyone might steal it. I'll save it for Bond 29.

Fair enough.