1894 replies to this topic

[Rich Douglas]

lol... some of you people will NEVER be satisfied. As far as Bond music is concerned, this is different, fresh, as far from "generic" as you can get, and interesting on every level. This is, without a doubt, Thomas Newman and his signature vibe / sound. Now if you don't care for TN's sound, then.. well.. to each their own, can't help ya there. He's been doing THIS ever since the 90s.

We got something different, while still retaining a large and bondian sound.

... chill out.

Oh, I think if Breadcrumbs IS the gunbarrel... it sounds brilliant. I also think that if it is the gunbarrel that the guitar riff isn't for the gunshot... it's for when the gunbarrel pans into the scene. Just a guess.

[MattofSteel]

Agreed, Rich. I think I'm done arguing about it. No one will ever be satisfied with anything, so the perpetually negative nancies I'd say - Do a fan re-score yourself, or stop complaining that exactly what you wanted isn't exactly what you asked for.

I was Newman's harshest doubter, and I'm pleased. That's good enough for me.

[Skull Kid]

A few moments aside, (namely the Severine 'theme') this is really quite horrific. Newman is a capable enough composer when he puts his mind to it, but this seems to follow the trend of his last couple of scores eg The Debt and Adjustment Bureau .... techno/ambient garbage with little to no melody whatsoever.

People seem to be saying subtlety is a virtue but John Barry's most basic incidental background music is more memorable than anything heard from Skyfall so far. And whatever you say about Arnold, at least his films have memorable motif's. Skyfall seems to me to play as Quantum of Solace part 2 musically but without the themes Arnold wrote for that film. Its just an amalgamation of Hans Zimmer, John Powell and Cliff Martinez, with an occasionally nice string harmony. And anyone who says film scores should stand out less and sit in the back somewhere is on a very different page from me.
Sorry for the negative first post but disappointment breeds contempt. I'm still open to changing my mind upon hearing the rest and within the film but again this is a bland and turgid washout... Fresh, original, modern... individual? Er... for me it is none of these things.

Edited by Skull Kid, 11 October 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[PeteNeon]

Listened to a couple of them, I like Breadcrumbs but the others sounded a lot like video game Bond music, quite generic and not really going anywhere. They're only 30 second clips so you can't really tell.

[Vauxhall]

Oh, I think if Breadcrumbs IS the gunbarrel... it sounds brilliant. I also think that if it is the gunbarrel that the guitar riff isn't for the gunshot... it's for when the gunbarrel pans into the scene. Just a guess.

Yep, that's what I thought on first listen too.

[PPK_19]

A few moments aside, (namely the Severine 'theme') this is really quite horrific. Newman is a capable enough composer when he puts his mind to it, but this seems to follow the trend of his last couple of scores eg The Debt and Adjustment Bureau .... techno/ambient garbage with little to no melody whatsoever.

People seem to be saying subtlety is a virtue but John Barry's most basic incidental background music is more memorable than anything heard from Skyfall so far. And whatever you say about Arnold, at least his films have memorable motif's. Skyfall seems to me to play as Quantum of Solace part 2 musically but without the themes Arnold wrote for that film. Its just an amalgamation of Hans Zimmer, John Powell and Cliff Martinez, with an occasionally nice string harmony. And anyone who says film scores should stand out less and sit in the back somewhere is on a very different page from me.
Sorry for the negative first post but disappointment breeds contempt. I'm still open to changing my mind upon hearing the rest and within the film but again this is a bland and turgid washout... Fresh, original, modern... individual? Er... for me it is none of these things.

Brave of you to come out and say as much Skull Kid (fan of Zelda?)! And welcome to CBn forums!

[Vauxhall]

Are they anywhere on youtube yet or is it still the three previously released tracks?

Not seen them on YouTube yet, but I'll keep an eye out.

[The Shark]

I think I'm done arguing about it.

No you're not.

[MattofSteel]

I'm not going to sit here and say this is the Bond score I wanted for the 50th anniversary. It's not. At all. Frankly, I wanted Arnold to deliver a Barry pastiche, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

The reason I'm feeling quite positive about the samples is that I expected so much worse from Newman. Not in terms of compositional quality, but in terms of just utter inappropriateness for Bond. I'm just relieved that - even though he retained his distinctive sound - he's stretched it as much toward Barry and Bond as he has.

This may sound like Newman or contemporary action genericness - but it's also the least Newman-y sounding thing he's done, for my money. And, much like the albums for TWINE/DAD/QOS (and even to some extent, CR), I wouldn't doubt there's been music held back. The entire James Bond Theme remix from Quantum of Solace that played over the credits has still never been officially released, you know.

My expectations were so low, I suppose, that this is a monumental achievement. Once we get the entire thing and it's a bit more Bond theme-heavy, I think some of the reactions will change.

I can't believe I went from steadfast doubter to Newman defender in less than 24 hours.

I think I'm done arguing about it.

No you're not.

You're right. I'm incapable.

And informed fans such as yourself are such invigorating sparring partners, frankly. I'll welcome any forum member who disagrees with me intelligently any day of the week. That's the point of the boards, really.

[PeteNeon]

The action cues sound the most generic to me, especially The Bloody Shot.

Edited by PeteNeon, 11 October 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[Skull Kid]

Brave of you to come out and say as much Skull Kid (fan of Zelda?)! And welcome to CBn forums!

Cheers PPK-19. And yes i'm afraid i am a fan of Zelda. I think as i was signing up whilst listening to the samples the 'Close Shave' track infected me with its slight Zelda-y vibe. Needless to say, this was one of the less offensive tracks!

[SecretAgentFan]

Might I also add again that we have only heard samples (30 seconds each), not the entire tracks?

[MattofSteel]

Might I also add again that we have only heard samples (30 seconds each), not the entire tracks?

Excellent point. Expand Breadcrumbs, Komodo Dragon, and Deep Water - and suddenly people might feel very differently.

[SecretAgentFan]

I also must say, I´m absolutely with you on this, MattofSteel. I was extremely worried about Thomas Newman scoring SKYFALL because despite some terrific work his mannerisms tend to come through again and again.

But the samples seem to point out that he found a way to combine Bond and Newman.

[Skull Kid]

Might I also add again that we have only heard samples (30 seconds each), not the entire tracks?

Yes but thats still a very decent indicator of the score.

An unfair comparison of course, but imagine listening to 30 seconds of ANY John Barry Bond track. The wealth of quality would still shine through hugely and at the very least make you want to hear more. To be honest, this barely makes me want to hear the rest of the score, though of course i'll buy it as i have all the others.

I also believe the David Arnold scores would come across better through the samples. Because he had memorable moments. Where, i ask, aside from the Severine motif, is any theme here at all? In fact i'd struggle to hum any Thomas Newman theme whatsoever aside from that bloody Meet Joe Black track. Thats not all that matters of course, but its important!

[PeteNeon]

To add fuel to the fire... http://www.amazon.co...49970231&sr=1-1

I think the SF score will be great by the way, before anyone attacks me!

[marktmurphy]

I think I prefer Severine's theme to the title song, to be honest. It has a lovely ethereal quality that isn't really present in Bond anywhere else.

[Skull Kid]

To add fuel to the fire... http://www.amazon.co...49970231&sr=1-1

I think the SF score will be great by the way, before anyone attacks me!

Thank you this makes my point perfectly. If you put yourself in the mindset of not knowing the score already, the samples here destroy Skyfall's on a track by track basis. And before someone again repeats it, no Thomas Newman does not have an original sound.

[MattofSteel]

I also must say, I´m absolutely with you on this, MattofSteel. I was extremely worried about Thomas Newman scoring SKYFALL because despite some terrific work his mannerisms tend to come through again and again.

But the samples seem to point out that he found a way to combine Bond and Newman.

That's what has me so intrigued. I've always felt Newman a bit overrated, truth be told - he's written some amazingly beautiful music, but he's not what I'd call versatile. At all. Newman scores don't all sound the same, but they fall into a few distinct categories fairly snugly. And his work is often severely understated. I know that's part of his philosophy, but damnit, good Bond music is never understated. It's got, for want of a better phrase, brass balls.

But Skyfall may be Newman's most versatile score yet. Considering the musical disaster I thought he'd force on Bond's fiftieth anniversary, this is something I can live with.

Is it worse than John Barry? Absolutely. It's not melodic and it's nowhere near as immediately iconic. But that's because John Barry's John Barry, and he was and will always be the best at this, and everyone else is imitating, emulating, or ignoring.

Is it better than David Arnold? No. David Arnold could have done this, he could have done it Bond-ier and given the choice, I'd absolutely have preferred him overseeing the music for the 50th anniversary film. I'll have to live with that as a colossally missed opportunity.

Will it work? Of course it will. We haven't even seen the film yet. Caring about it any more than that is extraneous at this point, really. If I so desperately need a fix of the other sound, I've got 22 other albums I can play.

Thomas Newman's tallest task was, frankly, allaying my fears. He's done that. Success.

Unless he doesn't do the twangy guitar at some point. If he literally does not do the twangy guitar at some point in the 50th anniversary film, I will turn coat extremely quickly on him.

[junkanoo]

Agreed, Rich. I think I'm done arguing about it. No one will ever be satisfied with anything, so the perpetually negative nancies I'd say - Do a fan re-score yourself, or stop complaining that exactly what you wanted isn't exactly what you asked for.

And informed fans such as yourself are such invigorating sparring partners, frankly. I'll welcome any forum member who disagrees with me intelligently any day of the week. That's the point of the boards, really.

I can understand that your earlier post was one of frustration, keeping in mind that we are all passionate Bond fans (and many film score fans as well). But I'd suggest that Bond films will come and go and these discussions will be all the better if we can maintain just a bit of a sense of humor and perspective.

Cheers,

Nancy

[MattofSteel]

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

It's hit a boiling point with these score samples. I just reached a limit of tolerance with everyone saying they want something fresh, but who aren't subsequently pleased with having received something fresh. I sit here listening to the Newman score and think, "Wow, this is exactly what some of those people wanted." I don't know. Maybe my interpretation of their request was wrong.

[The Shark]

Maybe my interpretation of their request was wrong.

I think so. I thought me ranting about contemporary action scores would be a hint.

[marktmurphy]

Is it better than David Arnold? No.

I don't know about that.

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

Saying it's not better than Arnold seems pretty negative.

[photographer]

The score sounds very different to everything I heard before as music for the Bond movies.
I hope the approach to music gets probably better grip for me after seeing the movie.

Edited by photographer, 11 October 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

It's hit a boiling point with these score samples. I just reached a limit of tolerance with everyone saying they want something fresh, but who aren't subsequently pleased with having received something fresh. I sit here listening to the Newman score and think, "Wow, this is exactly what some of those people wanted." I don't know. Maybe my interpretation of their request was wrong.

Well put!

[The Shark]

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

Saying it's not better than Arnold seems pretty negative.

You're talking to a guy who thinks David Arnold's the second coming.

[Skull Kid]

Having only entered the fray today i am acutely aware that my first few posts may constitute 'trolling'. At the same time however, the only thing that i felt strongly enough about to entice me out of the lurking woodwork was my disappointment at this score.
The action material in particular is just really bad, and i think people should be able to express that. As someone to whom film scores mean a lot, they seem to be becoming a lost art generally, just walls of meaningless noise with no individual personality. This score so far to me is the first major blemish to Skyfall's credentials. And yes i'm aware i have only heard samples and not seen the film, so things could change.

[MattofSteel]

Is it better than David Arnold? No.

I don't know about that.

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

Saying it's not better than Arnold seems pretty negative.

It was, but it wasn't intended that way. I was just trying to be pragmatic, and illustrate a person opinion. When I say it's not "better", I mean, it's not necessarily any more Bond-appropriate.

Look, let's clear the air here before I become way more of a target for some of these comments than is probably necessary. Everything that everyone loves about James Bond music, I love. I'd be first in line to help resurrect the John Barry sound verbatim and try and slap it on a contemporary film, just because I love every bar of his scores that much. (Well, not every bar. Sorry, TMWTGG). It's why I've celebrated what I feel are excellent emulations and expansions by David Arnold, and why I so dreaded what a typically distinct-sounding Thomas Newman might bring to the project.

I'm equally pessimistic about the direction of modern film scores. I long for somehow-contemporized versions of the Bond scores we've enjoyed in years past.

But I'm happy with what we have. A grey area is allowed to exist. It doesn't have to be binary love and hate.

I was expecting something so much more galling and inappropriate. Instead, we've got something that's definitively contemporary and very much imbued with Thomas Newman's unique sound, but also very appropriate for the cinematic James Bond. It's just a tremendously interesting hybrid sound, and ultimately, we can't know how well it works until we see how well it works.

I've got plenty of humour about it. But the discussions lately have been an exercise in trolling. Constant negativity and vocal displeasure with the most inane of things.

Saying it's not better than Arnold seems pretty negative.

You're talking to a guy who thinks David Arnold's the second coming.

He's written the best non-Barry Bond music, so yeah, if we're going to rank the comings - I guess he's second.

[Skull Kid]

MattofSteel- i love your sentiments and you express your thoughts very well, plus you seem to know your stuff. Its a shame therefore that i just can't hear any of the uniqueness or freshness you keep mentioning. But i admire the positivity! I wish i could transfer some of it to myself.

[JimmyBond]

I like it for the simple fact that it's not Arnold. I do have some reservations though, I was hoping we'd hear the Bond theme bit more, first of all. Now granted these are just samples, but still, you'd think they'd want to let people know the Bond theme is there front and center.

I think that's my only (small) complaint. Other than that I really like what I hear.