1894 replies to this topic

[littlenellie]

Arnold-esque strings? What the hell are Arnold-esque strings?

I'll tell you exactly what Arnold-esque strings are. They're Newton-Howard-esque strings, which are also Silvestri-esque strings, and so on, if you get my drift.

In other words they're a trait of generic 21st century Hollywood action music. Low marcato strings pounding an octatonic ostinato (listen to Arnold's "Stairwell Fight") or one based around a tetrachord (set of four pitches) set such as in this case - C#-D-E-F, which hints at both the melodic minor, harmonic minor, octatonic scale, and the locrian mode. That also happens to be the four pitches of Arnold's 6-note NWAGB motif, heard extensively throughout QOS. Whatever it is, it's ain't Barry, and it doesn't sound much like Newman either.

Is also newman-esque now

[MattofSteel]

Arnold-esque strings? What the hell are Arnold-esque strings?

I'll tell you exactly what Arnold-esque strings are. They're Newton-Howard-esque strings, which are also Silvestri-esque strings, and so on, if you get my drift.

In other words they're a trait of generic 21st century Hollywood action music. Low marcato strings pounding an octatonic ostinato (listen to Arnold's "Stairwell Fight") or one based around a tetrachord (set of four pitches) set such as in this case - C#-D-E-F, which hints at both the melodic minor, harmonic minor, octatonic scale, and the locrian mode. That also happens to be the four pitches of Arnold's 6-note NWAGB motif, heard extensively throughout QOS. Whatever it is, it's ain't Barry, and it doesn't sound much like Newman either.

That's where we'll always fundamentally differ, then. I wouldn't want a Bond score so fresh and original that it's unrecognizable or inappropriate. And if Arnold's work is so inline with contemporary film scoring, why is that negative? I'd wager my nostalgia is as powerful as yours, but the time's the time, and it's changed.

Derivative, to me, isn't bad when it comes to 007. It's not so much about aping or imitating Barry's work as it is emulating Barry's work. Arnold, for my money, does that exceptionally well. Sounds like Newman's done it, too.

As I've said before: I suspect, Shark, that if you and I sat down to hammer out all the things we love about Bond music and Bond films, our preferences would likely line up quite similarly. The difference seems to lie in that I'm making allowances for a context of emulation (with a bit of admittance we'll never get the pure stuff again), and you seem to resent the emulation attempts so much that you'd just rather they not even try. Is that accurate?

[marktmurphy]

My opinion exactly. It's just annoying, we're on a Bond fan site and we're seeing all this hate for Adele, Newman, etc. Can't we just be satisfied with what we have? (I'll admit, a little hypocritical in this case!) Hey, maybe it's not the greatest, or maybe it's the best, but IT'S BOND. It's kind of hard to be excited when you hear pessimistic comments.

Goddammit.

You know it's really not that bad here; pretty much everyone is excited about what we're seeing. I like Dr Who and I belong to a fan forum of that and it's awful, frankly: every thread is about how awful new Dr Who is and they're filled with people being sneering and snarky about it. CBn is a breath of fresh air compared to that.
There's only a couple of people here who don't like the Adele tune, and a few (like me) who don't think it's all that amazing but find it decent enough, for example.

[The Dove]

Cover:

SWEET!! Exactly how I was imagining the album cover to be!!

[x007AceOfSpades]

Good choice for the album cover, at least it wasn't the US theatrical pose or the "Prom Night" poses.

Can't wait to hear it November 6th!

[The Shark]

That's where we'll always fundamentally differ, then. I wouldn't want a Bond score so fresh and original that it's unrecognizable or inappropriate. And if Arnold's work is so inline with contemporary film scoring, why is that negative?

Because I can't stand most contemporary action scores.

Derivative, to me, isn't bad when it comes to 007. It's not so much about aping or imitating Barry's work as it is emulating Barry's work. Arnold, for my money, does that exceptionally well. Sounds like Newman's done it, too.

We're on pretty foggy grounds here. A lot of it comes down to what one considers emulating as opposed to aping/imitating. For the record I'm not asking for any composer to dot every 'i' and cross every 't' of Barry's inimitable style, rather bring their own. I wouldn't mind an interesting new take on Barry's musical signatures for Bond (the melodic minor scale, plunger mutes etc. ) in moderation, as long as the composer offered a new angle. That's the difference between pastiche and re-interpretation.

As I've said before: I suspect, Shark, that if you and I sat down to hammer out all the things we love about Bond music and Bond films, our preferences would likely line up quite similarly. The difference seems to lie in that I'm making allowances for a context of emulation (with a bit of admittance we'll never get the pure stuff again), and you seem to resent the emulation attempts so much that you'd just rather they not even try. Is that accurate?

I resent bad attempts at emulating, broad strokes, or copying Barry's (or Arnold's) sound ad verbatim. The nods to the past should be more than icing on the cake.

[junkanoo]

If that's the cover, it would seem that it will be a true score ... without Adele's cover or any other lyrical piece. But that's certainly not for sure.

Edited by junkanoo, 05 October 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[MattofSteel]

@Shark

I've transplanted our discussion to the other thread.

But, if this quick bit is an indication of Newman's score (Tony Lewis told me I wouldn't be disappointed!), then colour me the most appeased Bond music fan in the world today.

[DominicGreene]

My opinion exactly. It's just annoying, we're on a Bond fan site and we're seeing all this hate for Adele, Newman, etc. Can't we just be satisfied with what we have? (I'll admit, a little hypocritical in this case!) Hey, maybe it's not the greatest, or maybe it's the best, but IT'S BOND. It's kind of hard to be excited when you hear pessimistic comments.

Goddammit.

You know it's really not that bad here; pretty much everyone is excited about what we're seeing. I like Dr Who and I belong to a fan forum of that and it's awful, frankly: every thread is about how awful new Dr Who is and they're filled with people being sneering and snarky about it. CBn is a breath of fresh air compared to that.
There's only a couple of people here who don't like the Adele tune, and a few (like me) who don't think it's all that amazing but find it decent enough, for example.

When I wrote that I was exaggerating a little, but I see your point. At least everyone on here can appreciate and understand why they like or don't like it.

[MattofSteel]

I will go very much on record, as I have before, in saying that amongst fan communities, CBN is generally one of the absolute best. Examples of discontent are incidental, and I'm exceedingly happy to be a part of this community. Most of the time.

[kneelbeforezod]

There really is no pleasing some of you people, is there? 10 seconds of an action clip with heavy orchestral Bond theme use, and Tom Newman's already failed. No one was more nervous about his hiring than me, but Jesus. Can we be a little less message-boardy for once?

Ten thumbs up for this post

[The Shark]

There really is no pleasing some of you people, is there? 10 seconds of an action clip with heavy orchestral Bond theme use, and Tom Newman's already failed. No one was more nervous about his hiring than me, but Jesus. Can we be a little less message-boardy for once?

Ten thumbs up for this post

Ten thumbs down for that post.

[univex]

There really is no pleasing some of you people, is there? 10 seconds of an action clip with heavy orchestral Bond theme use, and Tom Newman's already failed. No one was more nervous about his hiring than me, but Jesus. Can we be a little less message-boardy for once?

Ten thumbs up for this post

Ten thumbs down for that post.

Infinite up
What? It´s James Bond day, I can be ten all over again

[MattofSteel]

Certainly does feel as if we should all be wearing tuxedos on the living room floor, opening 50th anniversary Blu-Ray sets while our parents bring us Martinis.

[extremedalek]

My opinion exactly. It's just annoying, we're on a Bond fan site and we're seeing all this hate for Adele, Newman, etc. Can't we just be satisfied with what we have? (I'll admit, a little hypocritical in this case!) Hey, maybe it's not the greatest, or maybe it's the best, but IT'S BOND. It's kind of hard to be excited when you hear pessimistic comments.

Goddammit.

You know it's really not that bad here; pretty much everyone is excited about what we're seeing. I like Dr Who and I belong to a fan forum of that and it's awful, frankly: every thread is about how awful new Dr Who is and they're filled with people being sneering and snarky about it. CBn is a breath of fresh air compared to that.
There's only a couple of people here who don't like the Adele tune, and a few (like me) who don't think it's all that amazing but find it decent enough, for example.

Hi new here, but just wanted to agree with what Mark Murphy said above. I'm a member of the same Who forum, and compared to that place this board is like a haven of peace an tranquility.

That is all. Carry on.

[Matt_13]

Welcome aboard!

[JCRendle]

My opinion exactly. It's just annoying, we're on a Bond fan site and we're seeing all this hate for Adele, Newman, etc. Can't we just be satisfied with what we have? (I'll admit, a little hypocritical in this case!) Hey, maybe it's not the greatest, or maybe it's the best, but IT'S BOND. It's kind of hard to be excited when you hear pessimistic comments.

Goddammit.

You know it's really not that bad here; pretty much everyone is excited about what we're seeing. I like Dr Who and I belong to a fan forum of that and it's awful, frankly: every thread is about how awful new Dr Who is and they're filled with people being sneering and snarky about it. CBn is a breath of fresh air compared to that.
There's only a couple of people here who don't like the Adele tune, and a few (like me) who don't think it's all that amazing but find it decent enough, for example.

Hi new here, but just wanted to agree with what Mark Murphy said above. I'm a member of the same Who forum, and compared to that place this board is like a haven of peace an tranquility.

That is all. Carry on.

Welcome fellow Bondian/Whovian (Whodian?)

[PeteNeon]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Certainly does feel as if we should all be wearing tuxedos on the living room floor, opening 50th anniversary Blu-Ray sets while our parents bring us Martinis.

Best quote of the day period!

[Matt_13]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

Definitely worth keeping in mind that this is the tail end of a pretty extensive action beat, and if what we've seen is any indication, the entire scene from start to finish should be quite thrilling and, to the pleasure of many, coherently presented.

[JimmyBond]

While I don't hear anything inherently wrong with the music from that clip, it is a bit disappointing that it has such a Arnold flair to it. Only being a quick few seconds of score, I will by no means condemn Newman (yet ); still, I'm really interested in hearing the full score.

[THX-007]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

I liked it because I can tell what's going on.

Sounds more like a homage to John Barry to me, so it's obvious that there'd be a little of Arnold in there. Why don't you wait until you hear the whole soundtrack before whining about it being the same as DA?

Its hard to sound like Barry since Arnold has been doing that (or trying to at least) since 1997) so its bound to come off to some like Arnold. I agree, wait for the full score to come out.

Edited by THX-007, 06 October 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[MajorB]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

Definitely worth keeping in mind that this is the tail end of a pretty extensive action beat, and if what we've seen is any indication, the entire scene from start to finish should be quite thrilling and, to the pleasure of many, coherently presented.

Excellent point. Without seeing the rest of the sequence, you can't really judge the appropriateness or effectiveness of the pacing, the music, or anything else. So much is about what's gone before and what will follow. If this clip has been preceded by a lot of intense, fast-paced stuff, then slowing up fractionally may be just what's needed to make this stunt, and the cuff gag that caps it, a "wow" moment. Context is a huge part of communication.

[Berni99]

Don't forget, the music Quality (low Bitrate) in this Clip is not the best.

Edited by Berni99, 06 October 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[Melancholy Productions]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

I liked it because I can tell what's going on.

Exactly right! Too many action films now have such erratic editing it's hard to tell what's going on (I know QoS is called out for this, but honestly, some parts I thought it fitted, such as the pre-titles). One thing that really stood out to me about the clip is how easily I could follow the action, even for such a short clip. Great music too.

Edited by Melancholy Productions, 06 October 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[QOS4EVER]

I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

Agreed , The great thing about the Craig era is how urgent and intense the action is ,I really didn't get the sense of that in this.

[extremedalek]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

[SecretAgentFan]

I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

Agreed , The great thing about the Craig era is how urgent and intense the action is ,I really didn't get the sense of that in this.

You did not get the sense of urgent and intense action from that clip...

To each his own, really. But...

YOU DID NOT GET THE SENSE OF URGENT AND INTENSE ACTION FROM THAT CLIP??????????????????????

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 06 October 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[Mr_Wint]

Hmmm... bad day?

[THX-007]

The music was fine, but I didn't really like the pacing of the clip, it seemed a bit clunky and not urgent enough.

I liked it because I can tell what's going on.

Exactly right! Too many action films now have such erratic editing it's hard to tell what's going on (I know QoS is called out for this, but honestly, some parts I thought it fitted, such as the pre-titles). One thing that really stood out to me about the clip is how easily I could follow the action, even for such a short clip. Great music too.

I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark last month when it was re-released in theaters and the action scenes are great due in part to the way it was shot and edited. The camera observes the action thus allowing to show off the stunt work. Stunts are meaningless if the camera is shaking around and the edits are quick and erratic. The quick edits and the shaky cam can work if done right. I saw the Bourne Supremacy in theaters and it was sickening to watch. A hand to hand combat scene was so shaky and erratic I couldn't tell who was hitting who at points and the last action chase of the movie is one big blur.

Edited by THX-007, 06 October 2012 - 09:24 AM.