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'Skyfall' Filming Discussion.


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#811 Germanlady

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:05 PM


Personally, I think the editing 'problems' on QOS are massively overstated by people who are just looking for reasons to dislike it and those of a generally reactionary disposition when it comes to modern cinema; true, the whole first half-hour of the film feels rushed, as if they were determined to keep the film at well under two hours regardless but this doesn't effect the qulaity of the individual set-pieces, just that there's little pause for breath between them until the pacing settles down once we get to Bolivia. The opening stuff in Italy, Bond's fight with Slate and the entire climactic dessert hotel sequence are among the most effective action scenes in the entire series IMO and wipe the floor with Campbell's mostly pedestrian (not to say prescription) stuff in the previous film.



I wanted to like it very much (I tried to, more than I would have done had it not been a Bond film) and I have no problem with ‘Modern Cinema’ TM.
I do have a problem however with a director who does not seem to value the material he is working with and has simply decided to rush through it in the hope that people will be to confused to notice. It comes to something when behind the scenes documentary footage and production stills are more thrilling and impressive than the finished film.


In a way, I think, we all know, its rather senseless to ponder on about this film, but at the same time, it sorta remains so unsatisfying an experience, that one keeps on talking about it. Yes, the editing was on purpose to engage people, but ended as the exact opposite. If I don't see, what is going on, how can I get engaged?
Forster had all the money in the world, HE was the one who insisted of really going to all those countries and there are some beautiful shots in the featurettes, like the view on Panama etc, which didn't make the final cut. This is what I call unbelievable arrogance. Maybe for the first time, the money was NOT on the screen, as Babs insists on saying. He felt, he could afford to throw millions of dollars on the cutting floor. He should be hanged for that. He treated this as his personal playground, not doing, what he knew, he could do well, but playing around with stuff, he had no idea about (not his fault, but then, I treat this more careful) he had a vision of a film, playing like a bullet and brutally murdered a good film (maybe) for that.

Just remember the roof top chase, which DC did himself (as most other stuff) and still, he felt the need to cut off his face in one scene. So - the actor (DC) does his own stunts to not have cuts in important moments and still gets a film, that has no fluence in any scene - so it was all for nothing. Major bummer, I would think. Forster acted like an arrogant snob on this. despite the writers srike and a flawed script, he could have delivered a great action film with beautiful locations.

#812 Shrublands

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:30 PM

Yes, for all my talk about filmic form and script structure there is something much more plain and simple wrong.
Many wonderful things were done in the name of Bond for QoS. Locations visited, sets designed and built, stunts performed - many by the lead actor himself, etc, etc, etc. The terrible shame is that you can’t actually see much of this up on the screen.


He should be hanged for that.


Then drawn and quartered, at the very least. ;-)

#813 Pussfeller

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:43 PM

Yeah, but if they hadn't cut out all that stuff, the film would have been well over an hour long.

#814 Germanlady

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:03 PM

Yeah, but if they hadn't cut out all that stuff, the film would have been well over an hour long.


...lol and just don't get my started on how everybody is running around with shirts (in the desert for eyample) just to put Bond into thick clothes. Sure, why make Bond look sexy? Wrap him up, oh yeah. That short love scene looks, as if Forster couldn't bring himself to make this scene longer then "blink and you miss it". But yeah, Bond is not supposed to bring up some eye candy for both genderes. I think, I could write a booklet about all the stuff, that is just so wrong. Lots of nice little tidbits from the featurettes, that never made it etc etc..
OK, rant over due to blood pressure in the 200's. :(

#815 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:15 PM

Was it a failure? In our eyes - the die hard fans - yes. To the average movie goer - who doesn't know a Terrance Young from a Paul Greengrass - they thought it was a kick-butt movie and the box-office receipts reflected that.


Guess I´m not a die hard fan then, after all...

Damn.

#816 MattofSteel

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:22 PM

Then again, years later, I literally still have no clue what happened during that boat chase or even how Bond actually resolves it.


IIRC wasn't there an entire thread about it somewhere?


Yes, there was. And we never got anywhere with it.

#817 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

According to Ace Roberts, we should ask the average moviegoer.

#818 MattofSteel

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

Personally, I think the editing 'problems' on QOS are massively overstated by people who are just looking for reasons to dislike it and those of a generally reactionary disposition when it comes to modern cinema; true, the whole first half-hour of the film feels rushed, as if they were determined to keep the film at well under two hours regardless but this doesn't effect the qulaity of the individual set-pieces, just that there's little pause for breath between them until the pacing settles down once we get to Bolivia. The opening stuff in Italy, Bond's fight with Slate and the entire climactic dessert hotel sequence are among the most effective action scenes in the entire series IMO and wipe the floor with Campbell's mostly pedestrian (not to say prescription) stuff in the previous film.


In my case, the first part (looking for reasons to dislike) could not be further from the truth. There's much about QOS that I love, and the real tragedy is, there's a legitimately great Bond movie hovering just below the surface that could have been put together, but wasn't.

Bond's fight with Slate, for example, is a scene I adore. Yes, adore! It's a perfect fight scene. Very clear, geography makes sense, intense speed, those hints of 'Bond-like' humour and irony, and resolved in a decidedly Fleming-esque way. That 20-second bout is the best scene in the entire film.

But so much of the larger action sequences - which are supposed to be the ones that seem memorable and exciting - are just noise. It's got nothing to do with 'modern cinema.' Throwing fast [censored] on the screen and saying "it's modern" doesn't cut it. CR was "modern cinema" too, and the action was consistently brilliant.

#819 Matt_13

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:15 PM

Forster saved the film from being an absolute disaster. I think after Casino Royale the producers wanted something a little deeper, and Forster brought that despite the abscence of a finished script. If they had just wanted to show pretty scenerey they would have hired somebody else. He did the job he was hired to do.

#820 DominicGreene

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:44 PM

I personally liked Fosters style, but there are some things I would have definitely done differently (Being a filmmaker). I think that there should have been many more wide angle shots to truly emphasize the "character" of the setting and the action. For example, I think the scene after Bond swerves out of the way of the truck and turns vigorously, there should have been a nice wide angle shot to complement what just happened. It's like BOOM ACTION, a little wide angle break, then right back into the action again. I also noticed that there weren't a lot of dollying shots. I do love how most of the shots take place inside the Aston, you can really feet the "heat". I probably wouldn't have included music throughout the whole scene, until maybe when Bond hits the dirt or a little before. I love the roars of the engines.

I think this combined with Fosters shots would have made for an excellent car chase
,

Edited by DominicGreene, 26 January 2012 - 05:45 PM.


#821 Germanlady

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:54 PM

Forster saved the film from being an absolute disaster. I think after Casino Royale the producers wanted something a little deeper, and Forster brought that despite the abscence of a finished script. If they had just wanted to show pretty scenerey they would have hired somebody else. He did the job he was hired to do.


To me CR was actually rather deep for a Bond film and even, if you are right about what they wanted to achieve, there are but mere hints of any depth. Forster was hired, I think, because he was a story teller. That there was no real story - not his fault, but lots of false decisions (in my mind) are defo his. His way of trying to bring depth into the game was way over the top for a Bond film. His "let the location tell a story of their own" (which they didn't, because there was not enough of it in the final film IMO) is not the way a Bond film should be told. Sorry, it is and should remain a film for all and many - sorry again - don't go into a Bond film to do their own thinking. They want it told in an exciting, engaging way with a satisfying amount of all the stuff, they expect from a Bond film. CR did all that, despite leaving out certain Bond elements. It was not classic Bond, but fresh and very, very well done.
Forster tried to be different, but didn't deliver. My two...I wished, it was different. Like others, I wanted to love the film, that I had followed throughout its making.

#822 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:20 PM

Going back to the thread´s topic: I certainly expect Mendes to have a more classic approach to editing.

#823 Tuxedo

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:28 PM

I agree with most of the critics. To me the biggest mistake was to force the (I have to admit "unfinished") story/screenplay into the director's art concept of the 4 elements wind, water, fire, earth. Would have been better to tell a story than to follow a concept.

I still don't like the tone and part of the production design. It feels a bit like a modern theater approach in some parts. The Green Planet party location for example.

Well, that is "schnee von gestern" as Forster would probay say.

#824 univex

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:32 PM

Going back to the thread´s topic: I certainly expect Mendes to have a more classic approach to editing.

Yes, I really don´t imagine Mendes using speed ramping or fast cuts, or whatever. And with his involvement in all stages of filming, I bet he´ll have a big input on the editing. It´s actually the first time I´m not worried by the editing on the film. In the last couple of films I used to dread the days the trailers came out, just because I feard I´d see some speed ramping or asinine editing.

Well, that is "schnee von gestern" as Forster would probay say.

There´s no such thing as snow from yesterday in the Bond franchise ;) I still have nightmares about DUD.

#825 Shrublands

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

Yes, the other thing I don’t like about is that it’s the single most pretentious film in the history of the series.

#826 univex

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:39 PM

Are we still talking about QOS? Man, that film had an impact...good or bad. DUD was like that as well. One thing is for certain, SF is going to be an all together different beast. BTW: Yeah, it was a bit pretentious. But many folks say that DUD was unpretentious and I think otherwise. Not that I´m comparing both films. QOS, while flawed, is far supperior.

#827 Shrublands

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:46 PM

Are we still talking about QOS?


Yep, QoS - sorry for not making it clear.

DAD had it's own set of pretensions - true. But the reason I dislike that one is that it's just plain rubbish.

#828 Luigi Ferrari

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:51 PM

A trip to Brecon Beacons on the tracks of... 007 !? Have fun!



#829 Matt_13

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 07:01 PM

So what was that? Is that the location where the Duntrune Castle replacement will be shot?

#830 univex

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 07:04 PM


Are we still talking about QOS?


Yep, QoS - sorry for not making it clear.

DAD had it's own set of pretensions - true. But the reason I dislike that one is that it's just plain rubbish.


Spot on.

A trip to Brecon Beacons on the tracks of... 007 !? Have fun!

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=MGoJf-BmJc8

The word desolate comes to mind.

#831 Germanlady

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 09:11 PM

As usual with a grain of salt

David Atkinson @davidatkinson89
Rumours that the new Bond, Skyfall, will be filming at a prominent London building this weekend.

#832 MattofSteel

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 09:12 PM

Very desolate. That had better be one awe-inspiring manor house.

#833 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:24 PM

A trip to Brecon Beacons on the tracks of... 007 !? Have fun!

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=MGoJf-BmJc8

So, they've got three-time British Rally Champion Mark Higgins as a stunt driver in the film (which we know from shooting in Shanghai), and they've got the Brecon Beacons, home to Myherin and Crychan, two of the msot difficult rally stages in the world.

#834 Luigi Ferrari

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:02 PM


A trip to Brecon Beacons on the tracks of... 007 !? Have fun!

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=MGoJf-BmJc8

So, they've got three-time British Rally Champion Mark Higgins as a stunt driver in the film (which we know from shooting in Shanghai), and they've got the Brecon Beacons, home to Myherin and Crychan, two of the msot difficult rally stages in the world.


Intriguing, though I doubt he will be shooting there. It appears that he and the crew were heading to Istanbul after been in Shanghai. My idea is that he'll have a lot of work to do with the Beetles in Turkey.
Curiously, the video featuring the Beetles on the car transporter has been removed...

On a side note , today was released the latest issue of Empire. Have anyone seen it?
Did anyone take a look at the Damien Walthers showreel on Channel 5 tonight? Any news?

Edited by Luigi Ferrari, 26 January 2012 - 11:19 PM.


#835 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:37 PM

Intriguing, though I doubt he will be shooting there. It appears that he and the crew were heading to Istanbul after been in Shanghai. My idea is that he'll have a lot of work to do with the Beetles in Turkey.

I can't imagine that anything in Wales will be shot without the principal cast and crew. There's also talk of a big action scene to wrap the film up, and we know there is some kind of scene involving the Aston Martin in Deptford, which may be standing in for a town in Scotland. So perhaps Bond will come under fire as he tries to get to the manor house, leading to a chase across the Beacons.

That said, Myherin and Crychan are right on the western edge of Brecon Beacons National Park. Although there are a few stages - Dyfnant and Pantperthog and Penmachno North and South - that haven't been used for thirty years and are right in the heart of the Beacons.

This is Henning Solberg on the first pass of Myhrein (almost all stages are run twice during the course of a rally):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U5iOJdAQp4

And this is Sebastien Loeb on Clocaenog (which is much further north than the Beacons, but is pretty much the hardest stage of the rally, which is one of the most difficult in the world):



#836 Luigi Ferrari

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:49 PM


Intriguing, though I doubt he will be shooting there. It appears that he and the crew were heading to Istanbul after been in Shanghai. My idea is that he'll have a lot of work to do with the Beetles in Turkey.

I can't imagine that anything in Wales will be shot without the principal cast and crew. There's also talk of a big action scene to wrap the film up, and we know there is some kind of scene involving the Aston Martin in Deptford, which may be standing in for a town in Scotland. So perhaps Bond will come under fire as he tries to get to the manor house, leading to a chase across the Beacons.

That said, Myherin and Crychan are right on the western edge of Brecon Beacons National Park. Although there are a few stages - Dyfnant and Pantperthog and Penmachno North and South - that haven't been used for thirty years and are right in the heart of the Beacons.


The principal cast and crew will be shooting in Brecon Beacons, that's sure! It is rumoured that the shooting will took 3 weeks and that they need 3 months to build the set on location. We know that the original plan was to blow up the manor house, I have no idea if it has been changed, probably not :

In a little sidebar interview in Total Film, Chris Corbould states that there's "a great car chase" (and, for the record, "a spectacular action sequence at the end of the film") - assuming this is it then,


Edited by Luigi Ferrari, 26 January 2012 - 11:53 PM.


#837 Shrublands

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 11:57 PM

As they have decided to build their own manor house, I would think, that if anything, the destruction will be even more explosive.

#838 Matt_13

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:43 AM

I'm guessing that's why they bailed on Duntrune. Rather than CGing the expolsions onto a building, they destroy one for real now. The interiors will likely be shot at Pinewood anyway, so this makes sense. A whole lot of nothing in that region, so it's pretty ideal for sending something up in flames. Absolutely shocking how in the dark we are this time around. For all we know there will be no destruction of the manor house.

#839 x007AceOfSpades

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:15 AM

Something tells me that this will probably be the mose intense Bond film of the series. Main storyline, character development, action scenes - the Manor, Beacons, Shanghai, etc. This has to be easily longer than Quantum Of Solace's 104 minute run time I'm assuming so.

#840 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 02:19 AM

I'm guessing that's why they bailed on Duntrune. Rather than CGing the expolsions onto a building, they destroy one for real now.

They were going to add onto Duntrune, which to me suggests that only part of the building will be demolished.