303 replies to this topic

[jaguar007]

Having said that, in order to show that I'm all for giving chicks the same rights as men and stuff, I've made an honorary contribution to the National Association of Gals in behalf of CommanderBond.net.

Would that be NAG?

[Mr. Blofeld]

I wonder whether Sam Taylor-Wood would be a realistic possibility for the director's chair on BOND 24. Not only has she done this video, but she and Craig are also reportedly very good friends, and her recent film NOWHERE BOY was, as I understand it, highly acclaimed.

I don't find the ad offensive, but I do find a 43-year-old director marrying an actor she directed (in Nowhere Boy) who is barely a year old than I am to be a little... well, skeevy.

Ad doesn't bother me, but the negative publicity from a female Woody Allen directing a film would delay the series another year or two.

[Napoleon Solo]

Bit embarassing - bit tragic - that people think that the "James Bond" angle on this is of any importance whatsoever.

Minor point, and *not* part of the ad debate: We tend to overuse the word tragic. The tsunami and nuclear power plant explosions in Japan are tragic. You can describe this thread a lot of diffferent ways depending on your opinion of the ad. But it's got a long way to go before it becomes tragic, even a bit so.

Re: overuse of tragic: I saw somebbody describe a musician being passed over for the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. I'd classify that as not being tragic either. I once saw somebody refer to the death of cartoon director Chuck Jones as tragic. Someoneone responded that Mr. Jones lived a long life (he was 89 when he passed away) (EDIT: passed away peacefully) and was pretty much universally acclaimed as one of the greatest in his field. Sad, absolutely, certainly for his family and fans. Tragic? It is the way of the world. I mention all this only to provide some context for my comment and not so it's seen as a cheap shot.

[Jim]

Bit embarassing - bit tragic - that people think that the "James Bond" angle on this is of any importance whatsoever.

Minor point, and *not* part of the ad debate: We tend to overuse the word tragic. The tsunami and nuclear power plant explosions in Japan are tragic. You can describe this thread a lot of diffferent ways depending on your opinion of the ad. But it's got a long way to go before it becomes tragic, even a bit so.

Re: overuse of tragic: I saw somebbody describe a musician being passed over for the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. I'd classify that as not being tragic either. I once saw somebody refer to the death of cartoon director Chuck Jones as tragic. Someoneone responded that Mr. Jones lived a long life (he was 89 when he passed away) (EDIT: passed away peacefully) and was pretty much universally acclaimed as one of the greatest in his field. Sad, absolutely, certainly for his family and fans. Tragic? It is the way of the world. I mention all this only to provide some context for my comment and not so it's seen as a cheap shot.

Noted, fair point. Replace "tragic" with "pathetic"; probably a better initial choice anyway.

[Zorin Industries]

Bit embarassing - bit tragic - that people think that the "James Bond" angle on this is of any importance whatsoever.

Minor point, and *not* part of the ad debate: We tend to overuse the word tragic. The tsunami and nuclear power plant explosions in Japan are tragic. You can describe this thread a lot of diffferent ways depending on your opinion of the ad. But it's got a long way to go before it becomes tragic, even a bit so.

Re: overuse of tragic: I saw somebbody describe a musician being passed over for the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. I'd classify that as not being tragic either. I once saw somebody refer to the death of cartoon director Chuck Jones as tragic. Someoneone responded that Mr. Jones lived a long life (he was 89 when he passed away) (EDIT: passed away peacefully) and was pretty much universally acclaimed as one of the greatest in his field. Sad, absolutely, certainly for his family and fans. Tragic? It is the way of the world. I mention all this only to provide some context for my comment and not so it's seen as a cheap shot.

Perhaps Jim meant a collection of pathetic, sad, blinkered, lonely and short sighted opinions completely missing the point? Collectively they sound like tragic to me.

EDIT : It appeared he did.

[Jim]

However, if you're saying that the "James Bond" angle is unimportant to the impact of the ad - that had any old Joe Blow dressed up as a woman the ad would have worked as well as having James Bond, historically reknown misoginist, dressed as a woman - then I disagree most vehemently.

Surely, you jest, Jim. Or am I missing something?

Jim is saying that the use of James Bond in the ad is of secondary importance, if any, to the overall point of the ad

What is pathetic is the significance - if only for the sake of pointlessly, aridly, winding others up - ostensibly given to the effect on "James Bond", a fictional character providing an entertainment pastime, as if it were of any importance whatsoever. "Secondary importance" - dear oh dear.

[Royal Dalton]

They should make a film version of The Worm That Turned, with Craig in the Ronnie Corbett role.

[Germanlady]

Having said that, in order to show that I'm all for giving chicks the same rights as men and stuff, I've made an honorary contribution to the National Association of Gals in behalf of CommanderBond.net.

However not serious (hopefully) that was meant - using the word "chick" just shows, how low you sink to make a point. Yes - as someone put it - pathetic.

I wonder whether Sam Taylor-Wood would be a realistic possibility for the director's chair on BOND 24. Not only has she done this video, but she and Craig are also reportedly very good friends, and her recent film NOWHERE BOY was, as I understand it, highly acclaimed.

I don't find the ad offensive, but I do find a 43-year-old director marrying an actor she directed (in Nowhere Boy) who is barely a year old than I am to be a little... well, skeevy.

Ad doesn't bother me, but the negative publicity from a female Woody Allen directing a film would delay the series another year or two.

Oh really, but what everybody, who tries to paint this negative seems to overlook is the fact that - this is received VERY well. Think about it and find a corner to cry.

[Napoleon Solo]

EDIT: I was going to say something else but thought better of it. There's enough bile in this thread.

[Germanlady]

However not serious (hopefully) that was meant - using the word "chick" just shows, how low you sink to make a point. Yes - as someone put it - pathetic.

You really ought to charge me rent, cause I'm in your head all the time. But really, what's "pathetic" is telling other people they ought to consider ignoring me, then responding to every post I make.

Not every, dear - just the worst and why don't you answer to what this post was all about? Nothing to say? Of substance?

Maybe that would be hard, because the use of the word "chick" for women shows, why you are so much against Bond/Craig fighting for equality. Women are "chicks" for you..nothing to add. This add was made for people like you.

Edited by Germanlady, 15 March 2011 - 05:38 PM.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I still support the ad, Germanlady; there's nothing wrong with it, for me.

[SecretAgentFan]

Fräulein?

Now, now, GS. That was mean and cheap. Also, totally out of date since the term "Fräulein" is not in use anymore since you know who was in power.

Please apologize to the lady. James Bond certainly would.

[Jim]

Fräulein?

Now, now, GS. That was mean and cheap. Also, totally out of date since the term "Fräulein" is not in use anymore since you know who was in power.

Please apologize to the lady. James Bond certainly would.

Seconded. A little more panache wouldn't go amiss.

Must we all goose-step to your way of thinking, Fraulein?

What an extraordinary thing to write.

[jaguar007]

It is a shame that a little 2 min video that was produced by BB with good intentions has really started alot of controversy and name calling around here. Although we may disagree, let please try to keep things civilized.

Right now I would rather see EON put their efforts into producing a 2 min video to try to persuade people to help with disaster relief in Japan, but I'm sure George Clooney will beat them to it.

[Germanlady]

I can believe that. Because if you read every post I had made on this subject, in this thread, then you would not have had to ask.

You already answered, why you call women chicks?

Delicious. Do you even see the irony? You posting on a James Bond message board complaining about me treating women like "chicks"! LOL!

I am posting on a Bond board to a member, who is complaining about the sexist Bond being used as a role model for showing, that the world has changed and that the gender rights are getting closer and that men like Bond should step back.

No, the ad was made *mostly* for people who need to be told what to think, and to shame a few gutless males into feeling guilt and embarrassment that women aren't treated like <shudder> men. A large part of the "inequality" and shabby treatment of women is taking place in Muslim-dominated countries, but I seriously doubt anyone on this board, much less the people behind the advertisement, are willing to speak on that subject; much easier to hide behind the easy target...the white, straight, male boogey-man.

I am sure, women alone in the US could and would tell you otherwise. Its on your doorsteps, not only in the far East.

Why is it that so many who are claiming that this PSA need not be taken seriously are taking seriously the criticism the PSA has received? If this advertisement is so laissez-faire and cheeky, why not just ignore the criticism and enjoy the positive attention it has received? Why does it bother you so much that there are a few people who don't like the ad, or disagree with its use of James Bond? Must we all goose-step to your way of thinking, Fraulein?

Maybe its because you are ALWAYS, just always posting negative XXX - so it seems less a matter of opinion then a matter of just being negative just for the sake of it. This is what I oppose and herewith I wish you a good night and close the case for me. All is said.

[Dustin]

A bit ty isn't it? That all-too-handy knee-jerk reaction "abuse of women = Muslim countries". Everybody who has ever worked at an accident and emergency department knows that abuse of women happens right here and right now. And generally by the scum that likes to take an extremely close look towards Muslim countries, whenever the topic raises its head.

I've seen women bashed into entirely new forms by their "caring" husbands, spouses or whatever they call their torturers. Friday and Saturday nights are a good opportunity to observe this strange syndrome, followed by Mondays, because the strain of staying sober for a day after the weekend's binge-ing makes for some great brutality. Generally such incidents are explained as clumsiness on her part when handling doors, as slippery stairways and wobbly ladders or as phenomenal ballistics of kitchen appliances.

But the terror in their eyes betrays the truth.

If I have the choice between bemoaning what the evil, evil Muslims do thousands of miles away, or giving the fat who just broke his wife's arm for the third time (let's forget about the missing two molars since last May) a bad time - hm, then I think I like seeing chubby Mr White-Straight having some difficulty with the door to the ward. Accidents do happen, don't they?

Edited by Dustin, 16 March 2011 - 05:46 PM.

[jaguar007]

So now Fraulein is considered "offensive"? Good God! While no offense was intended with the reference to "Fraulein" (it's one of the few German words I know, other than "schatzi")

I guess the term fraulein was banned from official use in Germany in 1972.

[Jim]

Fräulein?

Now, now, GS. That was mean and cheap. Also, totally out of date since the term "Fräulein" is not in use anymore since you know who was in power.

Please apologize to the lady. James Bond certainly would.

So now Fraulein is considered "offensive"? Good God! While no offense was intended with the reference to "Fraulein" (it's one of the few German words I know, other than "schatzi"), I'm certainly not about to set precedent by validating politically correct hysterics with a patronizing apology. I'll treat GermanPERSON the same as I would treat any male for whom I have no respect.

And since when is James Bond's conduct considered the gold standard? According to this thread, his conduct needs to be reformed.

And the comment about goose-stepping?

Take it down a notch, Michael.

[MkB]

You already answered, why you call women chicks?

Does that offend you? Please tell me that that question is thinly-veiled wit, and that no self-respecting female member of a James Bond message board could possibly be upset with a man referring to women as "chicks"? I mean, have you ever heard of Pussy Galore, Xenia Onatopp, Octopussy, Choo-Me, Holly Goodhead, and Agent Triple X? I mean, is that reeeeeeeeeeeeally an argument you want to make on a message board devoted to a character referred to as Mister Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?

Two things come to my mind:
1) what is cool, funny or at least forgivable in a literary/movie character is often just downright pathetic in a "real" human being
2) did James Bond ever call women "chicks"?!? I would find that outrageously substandard for an Old Etonian; why not have him greet Tanner or Felix with a boisterous "Howdy, buddy-boy", if we go there? There's a clear limit to me between sexual double-entendres and vulgar street language.

[Loomis]

Must we all goose-step to your way of thinking, Fraulein?

What an extraordinary thing to write.

Sounds like something Bond would say in a Fleming novel.

[Royal Dalton]

And the comment about goose-stepping?

Take it down a notch, Michael.

Quite right, Jim. There's no need for things to get Naz--, er, nasty.

[David Schofield]

A bit ty isn't it? That all-too-handy knee-jerk reaction "abuse of women = Muslim countries". Everybody who has ever worked at an accident and emergency department knows that abuse of women happens right here and right now. And generally by the scum that likes to take an extremely close look towards Muslim countries, whenever the topic raises its head.

I've seen women bashed into entirely new forms by their "caring" husbands, spouses or whatever they call their torturers. Friday and Saturday nights are a good opportunity to observe this strange syndrome, followed by Mondays, because the strain of staying sober for a day after the weekend's binching makes for some great brutality. Generally such incidents are explained as clumsiness on her part when handling doors, as slippery stairways and wobbly ladders or as phenomenal ballistics of kitchen appliances.

But the terror in their eyes betrayes the truth.

If I have the choice between bemoaning what the evil, evil Muslims do thousands of miles away, or giving the fat who just broke his wife's arm for the third time (let's forget about the missing two molars since last May) a bad time - hm, then I think I like seeing chubby Mr White-Straight having some difficulty with the door to the ward. Accidents do happen, don't they?

Your description of regular scenes in A&E wards are exremely accurate. My wife worked for many, many years in A&E and often saw scenes you describe.

However, this should in no way absolve an entire Muslim culture where a Book actively encourages men to mentally and physically abuse women, where women are expected to silently accept such treatment, and where a Law tells them that non-observation is punishable in a corporal way.

Whitey - and lets be honest, this kind of thing is essentially restricted by social status (I doubt Dan Craig and his Class of mates has ever raised their hand to a women) and is, I am delighted to say, a minority pastime even there - has no Law which PERMITS physical and mental absuse of women. Certainly the white Protestant predominatntly working class society I am involved with every day, actively discourages this kind of appauling treatment.

Of course, the Muslim's have prevented their own A&E chaos by forbidding the boozing, never mind the binging, which leads to the kind of scenes described.

But then, they tend to have a more direct approach to marital disputes which can quite easily be ressolved sans the courage of alcohol: a good old stoning of some poor woman and all the A&E horses and all the A&E men aren't going to be able to put the poor lady back together again.

The crew that put this video together will be, I am quite reassured, educated enough know all of this.

[dunda]

this kind of thing is essentially restricted by social status (I doubt Dan Craig and his Class of mates has ever raised their hand to a women)

Oh my, this is a very dangerous thing to say. Reading "Not to People Like Us: Hidden Abuse in Upscale Marriages" by Susan Weitzman gives another impression. Not to speak of some famous HW trash like Gibson, Sheen and the likes. You can come across with the "excuse" of alcohol being involved, but 10 years ago I've never thought Gibson or Sheen would be like that.

Edited by dunda, 16 March 2011 - 09:38 AM.

[David Schofield]

this kind of thing is essentially restricted by social status (I doubt Dan Craig and his Class of mates has ever raised their hand to a women)

Oh my, this is a very dangerous thing to say. Reading "Not to People Like Us: Hidden Abuse in Upscale Marriages" by Susan Weitzman gives another impression. Not to speak of some famous HW trash like Gibson, Sheen and the likes. You can come across with the "excuse" of alcohol being involved, but 10 years ago I've never thought Gibson or Sheen would be like that.

There was a certain amount of irony in my remark, and those probably Dustin - and ceartainly my wife - came across were predominantly from what one would consider an underclass.

I am not for one moment suggesting that violence toward women is restricted to lower class, however, though I think by implication Dustin was refering to the boozing binging classes, whoever one might conclude that might be, who mentally lose it with their partners.

I can't even contemplate the kind of mental state financial independent, fantasy lifestyle living nutcases like Gibson and Sheen are in and what they believe they can do, whether boozed, stoned or cold sober.

And I haven't mentioned O.J. Simpson who - though acquitted in court - might have gone the whole hog in the abuse of women with Nicole Brown. Because Dustin is concerned with white males who clog up A&E, pissed out of their skulls who beat their wives and girlfriends. O.J. wasn't drunk, and he certainly isn't white.

[Dustin]

However, this should in no way absolve an entire Muslim culture where a Book actively encourages men to mentally and physically abuse women, where women are expected to silently accept such treatment, and where a Law tells them that non-observation is punishable in a corporal way.

Absolutely not.

But I've to choose here between circumstances in my immediate social surrounding which I can influence. And things in foreign countries I can not do anything about beyond speaking out against them. Which is surely as important and necessary, but it shouldn't prevent me/us from doing something about the scandalous conditions right here.

The knee-jerk reaction that "Muslims are so much worse than us exceptional white Christians (so stop fouling our nest with the few chicks too stupid to know their place)!" is often enough just used as a distraction. And I neither trust such people, nor do I have the slightest respect for them.


EDIT: Oh, and "white" of course can have many shades, right down to the colour of the background here. I wasn't the one who felt the add was concerning merely what calls itself WASPs today. That was Gravy.

Edited by Dustin, 16 March 2011 - 10:05 AM.

[elizabeth]

First off, I would just like to say congratulations, Michael. You have managed to start yet another pointless sub-debate that has nothing to do with the actual video.

When the HELL did the video say anything about Muslims?!? Well, I do have Asperger's Syndrome, so I could be missing something, but I'm pretty sure I didn't. Now this pointless sub-debate is going to turn into a debate on religion in correlation to the use of the word "chicks" (which I also don't approve of, considering my disability, but you're probably a model American male who doesn't discriminate), and when I come back after class today, this thread is going to be 20 pages long.

Congratulations, Michael. You deserve it.

First off, I would just like to say congratulations, Michael. You have managed to start yet another pointless sub-debate that has nothing to do with the actual video.

When the HELL did the video say anything about Muslims?!? Well, I do have Asperger's Syndrome, so I could be missing something, but I'm pretty sure I didn't. Now this pointless sub-debate is going to turn into a debate on religion in correlation to the use of the word "chicks" (which I also don't approve of, considering my disability, but you're probably a model American male who doesn't discriminate), and when I come back after class today, this thread is going to be 20 pages long.

Congratulations, Michael. You deserve it.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to English to become more learned in the authors of my major: Shakespeare, Dickens, Golding, White, Longfellow, among others, who certainly had (yes, Michael, even Shakespeare) the good ing sense not to refer to women as "chicks" or "Fraulein." A tout a l'heure, tout le monde.

[David Schofield]

First off, I would just like to say congratulations, Michael. You have managed to start yet another pointless sub-debate that has nothing to do with the actual video.

When the HELL did the video say anything about Muslims?!? Well, I do have Asperger's Syndrome, so I could be missing something, but I'm pretty sure I didn't. Now this pointless sub-debate is going to turn into a debate on religion in correlation to the use of the word "chicks" (which I also don't approve of, considering my disability, but you're probably a model American male who doesn't discriminate), and when I come back after class today, this thread is going to be 20 pages long.

Congratulations, Michael. You deserve it.

I think "Michael" made mention of the equally important need to spread the word on female emancipation in the Muslim world, and wondered if that may or may not have been furthered by the vid. Whether one believes that the Muslim world is more or less tolerant of women than the Western World is irrelevant and therefore a fair point made by Micheal/Grav, I'd suggest. The need for fair treatment of women in the Muslim world is one I'm sure you would not disagree with.

Regardless of whether you agree with "Micheal's" other points, I think you'd also conceed this would be an aim of the makers of the vid too, and that it probable really isn't a "pointless sub-debate" after all?

[Royal Dalton]

That was Gravy.

Gravy.

[SecretAgentFan]

Man, do we need actual BOND 23 news...

[SecretAgentFan]

Boy, do we need real BOND 23 news...