158 replies to this topic

[Guy Haines]

Variety said

Craig, the most recent Bond, was by far the most lethal -- the movies' body count increased accordingly

While yes, more lethal and did more killing with his hands, the body count went down considerably from the Brosnan films. I remember at some point one member did a count of kills from the Craig films v/s the Brosnan films.

Craig does have one unusual record for a Bond regarding sudden death on his watch. Three women seduced - all three dead, with only Camille left alive, and the best she could manage was a quick kiss in a car. By contrast, two arch villains also dead, but not at Bond's hands, unless you count leaving Dominic Greene to rot in the middle of the Bolivian desert with only a can of motor oil for company as a fate worse than death.

What would be unusual for Craig's Bond in "23" would be (1) at least one woman he seduces actually makes it to the end of the film alive and in one piece and (2) the arch adversary is actually killed by 007, rather than by a third party. It might be typical Bond, but not, so far, typical for this one.

[captnash2]

what CR and QoS do is treat the violence differently from previous bonds so craig's 007 gets into more rough and dirty violent hand to hand combat that leaves him more bruised and shaken.

so we get more scenes of bond mulling over the trauma from such encounters.

Edited by captnash2, 13 August 2010 - 09:48 AM.

[Bond Maniac]

Change that god awful title song. Don't get me wrong I love Alicia Keys and Jack White, but I just don't think the two go well together.

I agree with you. That theme song is horrible. One of the worst yet. I have to flash forward on that thing. I don´t also like Jack White, i think he is a hack.

[Aris007]

Change that god awful title song. Don't get me wrong I love Alicia Keys and Jack White, but I just don't think the two go well together.


Well you see, I love fish and I love ice cream, but I wouldn't eat fish and ice cream together.

Hopefully you get my drift.

I see your point, ma'am! And you're totally right! YKMK may was very strong and suited the film, but Another Way To Die was pathetic. I didn't like it from the first time I heard it. I believe we must have an insttumental theme for Bond 23.

Variety said

Craig, the most recent Bond, was by far the most lethal -- the movies' body count increased accordingly

While yes, more lethal and did more killing with his hands, the body count went down considerably from the Brosnan films. I remember at some point one member did a count of kills from the Craig films v/s the Brosnan films.

Craig does have one unusual record for a Bond regarding sudden death on his watch. Three women seduced - all three dead, with only Camille left alive, and the best she could manage was a quick kiss in a car. By contrast, two arch villains also dead, but not at Bond's hands, unless you count leaving Dominic Greene to rot in the middle of the Bolivian desert with only a can of motor oil for company as a fate worse than death.

What would be unusual for Craig's Bond in "23" would be (1) at least one woman he seduces actually makes it to the end of the film alive and in one piece and (2) the arch adversary is actually killed by 007, rather than by a third party. It might be typical Bond, but not, so far, typical for this one.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the only thing that needs to stay as it is. Craig finally brouhgt that brutality and that cynbism that was gone for years from the role since Connery filmed TB. At last we had the darker aspect of Bond tha Fleming introduced. I think that needs to remain untouched.

[The Shark]

Variety said

Craig, the most recent Bond, was by far the most lethal -- the movies' body count increased accordingly

While yes, more lethal and did more killing with his hands, the body count went down considerably from the Brosnan films. I remember at some point one member did a count of kills from the Craig films v/s the Brosnan films.

Craig does have one unusual record for a Bond regarding sudden death on his watch. Three women seduced - all three dead, with only Camille left alive, and the best she could manage was a quick kiss in a car. By contrast, two arch villains also dead, but not at Bond's hands, unless you count leaving Dominic Greene to rot in the middle of the Bolivian desert with only a can of motor oil for company as a fate worse than death.

What would be unusual for Craig's Bond in "23" would be (1) at least one woman he seduces actually makes it to the end of the film alive and in one piece and (2) the arch adversary is actually killed by 007, rather than by a third party. It might be typical Bond, but not, so far, typical for this one.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the only thing that needs to stay as it is. Craig finally brouhgt that brutality and that cynbism that was gone for years from the role since Connery filmed TB. At last we had the darker aspect of Bond tha Fleming introduced. I think that needs to remain untouched.

So you talking about 3 in a row where the Bond girl dies after Bond bumped uglies with her, and where the villain isn't killed directly by Bond himself?

That doesn't sound particular Fleming to me, since those tropes only occurred on occasion, but not in continuous succession.

[Aris007]

Variety said

Craig, the most recent Bond, was by far the most lethal -- the movies' body count increased accordingly

While yes, more lethal and did more killing with his hands, the body count went down considerably from the Brosnan films. I remember at some point one member did a count of kills from the Craig films v/s the Brosnan films.

Craig does have one unusual record for a Bond regarding sudden death on his watch. Three women seduced - all three dead, with only Camille left alive, and the best she could manage was a quick kiss in a car. By contrast, two arch villains also dead, but not at Bond's hands, unless you count leaving Dominic Greene to rot in the middle of the Bolivian desert with only a can of motor oil for company as a fate worse than death.

What would be unusual for Craig's Bond in "23" would be (1) at least one woman he seduces actually makes it to the end of the film alive and in one piece and (2) the arch adversary is actually killed by 007, rather than by a third party. It might be typical Bond, but not, so far, typical for this one.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the only thing that needs to stay as it is. Craig finally brouhgt that brutality and that cynbism that was gone for years from the role since Connery filmed TB. At last we had the darker aspect of Bond tha Fleming introduced. I think that needs to remain untouched.

So you talking about 3 in a row where the Bond girl dies after Bond bumped uglies with her, and where the villain isn't killed directly by Bond himself?

That doesn't sound particular Fleming to me, since those tropes only occurred on occasion, but not in continuous succession.

Ah, yeah my quote was misleading and pardon me for that. I was reffering to "jaguar007". The fact that we have a Bond that finally looks like a blunt instrument, an assassin that cares for nobody but himself is what I think should remain as it is. To give you the big picture the scene in the begining of CR is what I mean. Bond kills and he goes away. For me that's more Fleming-ish than the playboy with the untouched suit and with the ironed shirt that we had in Brosnan and Moore.

[Germanlady]

From an old interview pre Defiance

MOVIESONLINE: IS THERE GOING TO BE A TRILOGY?

CRAIG: No.

MOVIESONLINE: ABSOLUTELY NOT?

CRAIG: No. No ing way [laughs]. I'm done with that ing story. I want to lie on a beach for the first half hour of the next movie, drinking a cocktail. I don't know what we're going to do with the next one. I know that we've finished this story as far as I'm concerned and we've got a great set of bad guys. There's an organization that we can use whenever we want to use it. The relationship between Bond and M is secure and Felix is secure. We can try to find out where Moneypenny came from and where Q comes from. Let’s do all that and have some fun with it.

MOVIESONLINE: WITH THE STUDIO DOING SO WELL WITH THESE MOVIES, I'M SURE THEY WANT TO GET STARTED AGAIN QUICKLY. ARE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN DOING ANOTHER PROJECT LIKE “DEFIANCE” BEFORE THE NEXT BOND FILM?

CRAIG: We don't know when we're going to do the next Bond. Certainly no one is thinking about it just at the moment and we're going to give it a rest for the moment.

[captnash2]

craig's bond on skis-time to see him on snow/ice.

no scuba diving scenes-they slow down action.

[Aris007]

From an old interview pre Defiance

MOVIESONLINE: IS THERE GOING TO BE A TRILOGY?

CRAIG: No.

MOVIESONLINE: ABSOLUTELY NOT?

CRAIG: No. No ing way [laughs]. I'm done with that ing story. I want to lie on a beach for the first half hour of the next movie, drinking a cocktail. I don't know what we're going to do with the next one. I know that we've finished this story as far as I'm concerned and we've got a great set of bad guys. There's an organization that we can use whenever we want to use it. The relationship between Bond and M is secure and Felix is secure. We can try to find out where Moneypenny came from and where Q comes from. Let’s do all that and have some fun with it.

MOVIESONLINE: WITH THE STUDIO DOING SO WELL WITH THESE MOVIES, I'M SURE THEY WANT TO GET STARTED AGAIN QUICKLY. ARE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN DOING ANOTHER PROJECT LIKE “DEFIANCE” BEFORE THE NEXT BOND FILM?

CRAIG: We don't know when we're going to do the next Bond. Certainly no one is thinking about it just at the moment and we're going to give it a rest for the moment.

Well then I guess I have to say goodbye to my expectation for a dark Bond 23.

[Bond Maniac]

From an old interview pre Defiance

MOVIESONLINE: IS THERE GOING TO BE A TRILOGY?

CRAIG: No.

MOVIESONLINE: ABSOLUTELY NOT?

CRAIG: No. No ing way [laughs]. I'm done with that ing story. I want to lie on a beach for the first half hour of the next movie, drinking a cocktail. I don't know what we're going to do with the next one. I know that we've finished this story as far as I'm concerned and we've got a great set of bad guys. There's an organization that we can use whenever we want to use it. The relationship between Bond and M is secure and Felix is secure. We can try to find out where Moneypenny came from and where Q comes from. Let’s do all that and have some fun with it.

MOVIESONLINE: WITH THE STUDIO DOING SO WELL WITH THESE MOVIES, I'M SURE THEY WANT TO GET STARTED AGAIN QUICKLY. ARE YOU MORE INTERESTED IN DOING ANOTHER PROJECT LIKE “DEFIANCE” BEFORE THE NEXT BOND FILM?

CRAIG: We don't know when we're going to do the next Bond. Certainly no one is thinking about it just at the moment and we're going to give it a rest for the moment.

Well then I guess I have to say goodbye to my expectation for a dark Bond 23.

Sounds like he wants to return to the old formula. This could be a good and a bad thing at the same time. I really don´t think that bringing Q or Money penny at this stage is a good thing but i could be wrong.

[Aris007]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

[Bond Maniac]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

[Aris007]

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

Couldn't agree more. Dan may have the abillity to deliver some really good and funny lines, but that's it. He doesn't have the attitude that Moore and even perhaps Brosnan had.

Take for instance Connery. He may was a killing machine too, but he had that charm. Craig, I think so, can't be charming in that way. That's why I think that a film of that kind isn't a very good idea.

[jaguar007]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

I think you are both selling Craig a bit short. He can pull off the deadpan type humor that Connery did in his early films (as witnessed at times in CR). I'm sure we will see a bit more humor from Craig in Cowboys & Aliens.

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

[The Shark]

Exactly. You (Bond Maniac and Aris) are those that are constricting Craig's possibilities as an actor, and as Bond. I don't any actor on earth, no matter how spontaneous or naturalistic, would have been able to inject any kind wit and life into CR and QOS, to overcome their inane portentousness.

[Aris007]

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

Well that's the reasonable thing to be done. If Craig stats acting like Moore then he'll act a clown. Still though, I question his abillity to reach Connery. I guess we'll see. He has made us fool once in 2006.

[Bond Maniac]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

I think you are both selling Craig a bit short. He can pull off the deadpan type humor that Connery did in his early films (as witnessed at times in CR). I'm sure we will see a bit more humor from Craig in Cowboys & Aliens.

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

Sure, could be. I believe that we have not yet seem everything Craig has to offer on the role. My opinion was solely based on his two Bond movies. I confess that i never saw other movies from him, except "Munich". A movie along the lines of "Thunderball" would be a nice change of pace but we all agree that the thing should not be filmed shaking as hell right ?

[Germanlady]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

I think you are both selling Craig a bit short. He can pull off the deadpan type humor that Connery did in his early films (as witnessed at times in CR). I'm sure we will see a bit more humor from Craig in Cowboys & Aliens.

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

Sure, could be. I believe that we have not yet seem everything Craig has to offer on the role. My opinion was solely based on his two Bond movies. I confess that i never saw other movies from him, except "Munich". A movie along the lines of "Thunderball" would be a nice change of pace but we all agree that the thing should not be filmed shaking as hell right ?

Its definitely DC himself, who gave the impression, he is some sort of brooding individual in person and on screen (if you take his film characters, which are mostly serious, dark affairs) but the man himself, (if not under the bombardement of lights and questions and whatnot on public events, which tend to bring out his stern face), is one of the funnhiest, goofiest people on earth (O-tone Hugh Jackman and many others). You can see it in some of the interviews yourself and maybe have a look at the Catherine Tate thingy again. What I want to say is, that he has lots of humor and can bring that into a character if needed - every kind. The deadpan kind, but also the goofy kind etc etc. whatever kind is needed.

Edited by Germanlady, 16 August 2010 - 04:09 PM.

[Bond Maniac]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

I think you are both selling Craig a bit short. He can pull off the deadpan type humor that Connery did in his early films (as witnessed at times in CR). I'm sure we will see a bit more humor from Craig in Cowboys & Aliens.

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

Sure, could be. I believe that we have not yet seem everything Craig has to offer on the role. My opinion was solely based on his two Bond movies. I confess that i never saw other movies from him, except "Munich". A movie along the lines of "Thunderball" would be a nice change of pace but we all agree that the thing should not be filmed shaking as hell right ?

Its definitely DC himself, who gave the impression, he is some sort of brooding individual in person and on screen (if you take his film characters, which are mostly serious, dark affairs) but the man himself, (if not under the bombardement of lights and questions and whatnot on public events, which tend to bring out his stern face), is one of the funnhiest, goofiest people on earth (O-tone Hugh Jackman and many others). You can see it in some of the interviews yourself and maybe have a look at the Catherine Tate thingy again. What I want to say is, that he has lots of humor and can bring that into a character if needed - every kind. The deadpan kind, but also the goofy kind etc etc. whatever kind is needed.

Thanks for the info, i really didn´t knew that. Will look up these things you mentioned to see for myself.

[Germanlady]

I really don't know if Craig can handle this kind of films. I'm a little worried that he doesn't have that humour and that wit that is needed.

You know, i agree with you. I saw yesterday both CR and QOS and i believe that this two movies fits more of his style. Humour i believe he can pull of (like the "do you live far from here ?" scene from CR) but wit ? I don´t know. I look at him and i see a killing machine, a dangerous individual and i don´t think these two things (humour and wit) fits with his Bond.

I think you are both selling Craig a bit short. He can pull off the deadpan type humor that Connery did in his early films (as witnessed at times in CR). I'm sure we will see a bit more humor from Craig in Cowboys & Aliens.

I'm sure if Bond 23 is going to be a lighter film, I'm sure we will get something more along the lines of Thunderball rather than Octopussy.

Sure, could be. I believe that we have not yet seem everything Craig has to offer on the role. My opinion was solely based on his two Bond movies. I confess that i never saw other movies from him, except "Munich". A movie along the lines of "Thunderball" would be a nice change of pace but we all agree that the thing should not be filmed shaking as hell right ?

Its definitely DC himself, who gave the impression, he is some sort of brooding individual in person and on screen (if you take his film characters, which are mostly serious, dark affairs) but the man himself, (if not under the bombardement of lights and questions and whatnot on public events, which tend to bring out his stern face), is one of the funnhiest, goofiest people on earth (O-tone Hugh Jackman and many others). You can see it in some of the interviews yourself and maybe have a look at the Catherine Tate thingy again. What I want to say is, that he has lots of humor and can bring that into a character if needed - every kind. The deadpan kind, but also the goofy kind etc etc. whatever kind is needed.

Thanks for the info, i really didn´t knew that. Will look up these things you mentioned to see for myself.

Welcome. I think, if you listen to the Hugh jackman interview, there is a lot of info about him in a couple of minutes - mentioning that he is very different to what people expect him to be. The DC part starts at 12 min

..and here is the Comic Relief Catherine Tate bit, which is cult by now

Edited by Germanlady, 16 August 2010 - 05:28 PM.

[Harmsway]

Craig has a wonderful sense for comic timing. But that much was abundantly clear in CASINO ROYALE, where he frequently made the most of whatever he was given, turning mediocre dialogue into gold.

[DamnCoffee]

I loved him in the Catherine Tate special. If anyone doubts Craigs comic timing I suggest they give it a watch. It's hilarious!

[Quantumofsolace007]

I want bond to be stealth again. Like the garden maze in from russia with love or at largo's estate in Thunderball.

[Harmsway]

More than anything else, I want Bond to be weird again.

The Fleming novels and earlier films are chock full of bizzare, surreal touches. Doctor No's dragon tank. Scaramanga's funhouse. Spang's Spectreville. Shatterhand's Garden of Death. And, of course, we had Ken Adam's set designs creating their own strange atmosphere. For me, at least, this surrealism is a significant part of Bond's appeal, and QUANTUM OF SOLACE had practically no interest in replicating it, either in terms of style or in its narrative elements (which, in its own way, is a shame, since the 1970s thrillers which Forster claims as an influence often reveled in strangeness; see THE PARALLAX VIEW for an example).

I'd love to see BOND 23 go extremely weird, almost to the point of going overboard. Not for the sake of humor, but to create a strange, dreamlike, even nightmarish version of the world. I want to see Craig's Bond tangle with dangerous animals, to confront a villain with some deeply unsettling affinities, to unravel a plot that is both striking and outrageous. That doesn't mean I want to see space rockets. But a Garden of Death? Oh yeah.

[tdalton]

But a Garden of Death? Oh yeah.

I'd love to see that as well. When/if they put it on screen, it'll probably be a severely wattered down version of it, but if done right, it could easily be the most nightmarish sequence in the franchise's history (not that it would be hard to accomplish that) and one of the more unsettling moments in recent mainstream cinema. Hopefully we don't get the sequence in BOND 23, though, as I don't think Mendes would be the right director for a film that carries such a sequence. I do think that Mendes can do wonders for the Bond films, and I very much look forward to what he puts on the screen (if he's ever given the chance to actually get to work on the film, that is), but I think EON should turn elsewhere to find a director for a film carrying a Garden of Death sequence.

[captnash2]

michael, barbara and co-

remember that bond on screen is 1 part hitchcock, 1 part fleming, 2 parts broccoli/saltzman

[007Bond007]

- Sex, and a somewhat less prudish Bond
- David Arnold replaced
- Bond smoking tobacco
- Abandonment of the political ramifications, left-wing preachiness, and shades of grey relativism of QOS
- Despicable misogyny
- A lighter touch
- A return to the benign bizarre
- One or two action setpieces
- Colourful, saturated cinematography
- Gentleman's clubs
- Sophistication, snobbery, and small little obscure tidbits of general knowledge and etiquette and personal dislikes, implemented into the script. Rather like Fleming projecting his own suspicion of anyone wearing a tie with a Windsor Knot
- No more personal vendettas, of any form or variety
- An absence of rogue/anti-authoritarian Bond
- Not another "Bond's equal"
- No psychobabble from M, Dench voiceover in the trailer, or an indulgent use of the word 'trust'
- A sense of fun
- Sparse monologues from Bond, bookending the film
- Perhaps a visit to Bond's Chelsea flat, and some time spent at Scott's bar, the MI6 canteen, Bond's office and some of the more mundane features of Bond's everyday life

I like it! They should get The Shark working for Eon.

[Lachesis]

- Sex, and a somewhat less prudish Bond
- David Arnold replaced
- Bond smoking tobacco
- Abandonment of the political ramifications, left-wing preachiness, and shades of grey relativism of QOS
- Despicable misogyny
- A lighter touch
- A return to the benign bizarre
- One or two action setpieces
- Colourful, saturated cinematography
- Gentleman's clubs
- Sophistication, snobbery, and small little obscure tidbits of general knowledge and etiquette and personal dislikes, implemented into the script. Rather like Fleming projecting his own suspicion of anyone wearing a tie with a Windsor Knot
- No more personal vendettas, of any form or variety
- An absence of rogue/anti-authoritarian Bond
- Not another "Bond's equal"
- No psychobabble from M, Dench voiceover in the trailer, or an indulgent use of the word 'trust'
- A sense of fun
- Sparse monologues from Bond, bookending the film
- Perhaps a visit to Bond's Chelsea flat, and some time spent at Scott's bar, the MI6 canteen, Bond's office and some of the more mundane features of Bond's everyday life

I like it! They should get The Shark working for Eon.

Yes indeed, I cant comment on whether it 'suits' Daniel Craig but I'd rather see him try and fail than never know. We've had two films of a rather generic flavour imo, it would be nice to revive some of the individualism of the series, the things that made it more than just another action movie or more than just another spy film etc - I am sure it is still possible without alienating newer fans along the way.

[captnash2]

bond's leading lady be a civilian this time.

its been fellow agent or accomplice/lover to villian for a while since GE-

QoS was all three in one with olga k's character.

Edited by captnash2, 19 August 2010 - 09:32 AM.

[TQB]

I know a lot of people here would disagree with me but personally, I would like
1. I think it's 2010, and Bond movies need to reflect that. I think the stereotypical Bond stuff that people here like needs to change and be updated. I think in order for Bond to survive it needs to be reinterpreted from how it's been since before Craig.
2. I think things need to be realistic.
3. A new MI6 Building, I'm sick of seeing Vauxhall from the Brosnan movies. Something that's more small office like, such as in CR.
4. Gun Barrel at the beginning, although i wouldn't mind it being before the opening titles after the PTS. And a new designed gun barrel, the QOS one looked like it was done in MSpaint.
5. I would only like to see Q and Moneypenny if they are completely different than how we've perceived them so far in the franchise.
6. I personally would like to see a villainous plot that deals with the economy.
7. Last but not least, i enjoy seeing a flawed Bond who makes mistakes, who is a ruthless killer.