710 replies to this topic

[YouKnowTheName]

I suppose youre right. I just find it strange that they would bother to call it facility and advertise facility. It strikes me as untrustworthy. Even if I am admittedly sick of the original facility.

I've been very impressed with the single player. It seems like it truly captures the feel of GE64 and updates it.

But they could've at least had a bathroom. Maybe they do and the guys just didn't go into it.

No reason not to call it the Facility. It IS the Facility for this game. Can't get more honest than that. If it's any consolation the original MP Facility was set in the first half of the stage before the bottling plant, and the new one is clearly set IN the bottling plant, so maybe there'll be another half or a different level.

How often do you ever use the toilet area in a deathmatch anyway? It's a dead end. Even in QOS where they added backstairs it's never used.

Yay, I learned to quote!

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 09 October 2010 - 10:39 PM.

[British Chap]

I suppose youre right. I just find it strange that they would bother to call it facility and advertise facility. It strikes me as untrustworthy. Even if I am admittedly sick of the original facility.

I've been very impressed with the single player. It seems like it truly captures the feel of GE64 and updates it.

But they could've at least had a bathroom. Maybe they do and the guys just didn't go into it.

No reason not to call it the Facility. It IS the Facility for this game. Can't get more honest than that. If it's any consolation the original MP Facility was set in the first half of the stage before the bottling plant, and the new one is clearly set IN the bottling plant, so maybe there'll be another half or a different level.

How often do you ever use the toilet area in a deathmatch anyway? It's a dead end. Even in QOS where they added backstairs it's never used.

Yay, I learned to quote!

Well, a couple of things:

There IS a reason not to call it Facility. It IS deliberately misleading and REAKS of dishonesty (ala Goldeneye: Rogue Agent). They are advertising the game as featuring classic and original maps. Yet not a single classic map is present, and they know it.

Furthermore, my friends and I pretty much always battled for control of the bathroom. And hiding in the stalls is a staple of Goldeneye multi-player.

Funny that when they selected facility everyone was like "yes! facility!" but then when it booted nobody had the balls to say to the presenter "this isn't facility..."

[sharpshooter]

There IS a reason not to call it Facility. It IS deliberately misleading and REAKS of dishonesty (ala Goldeneye: Rogue Agent). They are advertising the game as featuring classic and original maps. Yet not a single classic map is present, and they know it.

Indeed. Facility has a bathroom, and that’s that. This one doesn’t, and it's Facility in name only. They can hide behind any explanation they want, but that's how it is. It's like this game as a whole. Turning the original on it’s ear is one thing. But throwing it out, creating new everything and slapping existing names on them is quite another.

[Chief of SIS]

This usually doesn't happen but multi-player is the one thing keeping me away from this game I think. I don't care if the maps are different, I just wish they weren't so bland in my opinion.

[YouKnowTheName]

There IS a reason not to call it Facility. It IS deliberately misleading and REAKS of dishonesty (ala Goldeneye: Rogue Agent). They are advertising the game as featuring classic and original maps. Yet not a single classic map is present, and they know it.

Who say's that "IS" Facility? GoldenEye 64. This isn't GoldenEye 64, this is GoldenEye Wii. GE Wii's Facility is whatever GE Wii says it is. When did anyone ever say there were classic maps in it?


Indeed. Facility has a bathroom, and that’s that. This one doesn’t, and it's Facility in name only. They can hide behind any explanation they want, but that's how it is. It's like this game as a whole. Turning the original on it’s ear is one thing. But throwing it out, creating new everything and slapping existing names on them is quite another.

Says who? A whole different game that isn't this one? Well, Fleming said Bond had black hair and grey/blue eyes, and "that's that". So goodbye Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Craig!

Why is everybody criticising a game for NOT blindly copying another game? It's totally GoldenEye, and totally Craig at the same time. I for one would rather have something familiar but different, that stands as a new game first and a nostaligia piece second. It's a GAME, it it's own right, not just a piece of fanwank. At least in updating it's trying to do something new, creative, and intellegent, which is more than can be said for Blood Stone.

[DamnCoffee]

Oh shut up. You're beginning to get increasingly annoying.

Yes, this is a public forum. You have your own opinion. But, I am SICK of you constantly going on about how unoriginal Blood Stone is.

IT'S A ING GAME! Get a god damn grip. Oh, and don't give me this "Oh I'm a fan, I'm just wary over the idea! I've been disappointed for years. We've had nothing but mediocre games." Because it's total and utter . You're not wary of GoldenEye in the least, either. You're just determined to hate it. It's getting on my bloody wick.

[YouKnowTheName]

Get a god damn grip.

My sentiments exactly. I've said it before Mharkin, you don't like opinions, don't go to a forum.

Perhaps you'd like to back up your argument against my accusations of Blood Stone's unoriginality with some features which are original? Or, like some of the more lucid memeber have done, offer some insight as to the neccesity of revloution as opposed to evolution in the medium?

Really, I've said enough times that Blood Stone could still be good if the gameplay is solid and the story works, but my accusations are sound, and all the previews seem to point this out. And yes, I AM wary of GoldenEye, but at the very least it's lulling me in to a false sense of security. I've said before that it could be just a generic COD clone, but the footage looks promising so far (and I don't think anyone wants to get me on to certain past Bond games again).

Discussion isn't just about nodding along. Sure, I'm often disagreeable, but that has led to some interesting points being raised and discussed, which makes for a far more interesting forum than everyone going on about great everything looks all the time. I apologise for nothing.

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 10 October 2010 - 10:44 PM.

[British Chap]

There IS a reason not to call it Facility. It IS deliberately misleading and REAKS of dishonesty (ala Goldeneye: Rogue Agent). They are advertising the game as featuring classic and original maps. Yet not a single classic map is present, and they know it.

Who say's that "IS" Facility? GoldenEye 64. This isn't GoldenEye 64, this is GoldenEye Wii. GE Wii's Facility is whatever GE Wii says it is. When did anyone ever say there were classic maps in it?


Indeed. Facility has a bathroom, and that’s that. This one doesn’t, and it's Facility in name only. They can hide behind any explanation they want, but that's how it is. It's like this game as a whole. Turning the original on it’s ear is one thing. But throwing it out, creating new everything and slapping existing names on them is quite another.

Says who? A whole different game that isn't this one? Well, Fleming said Bond had black hair and grey/blue eyes, and "that's that". So goodbye Connery, Lazenby, Moore and Craig!

Why is everybody criticising a game for NOT blindly copying another game? It's totally GoldenEye, and totally Craig at the same time. I for one would rather have something familiar but different, that stands as a new game first and a nostaligia piece second. It's a GAME, it it's own right, not just a piece of fanwank. At least in updating it's trying to do something new, creative, and intellegent, which is more than can be said for Blood Stone.

Well then, way to take the company bait. Hook. Line. And Sinker.

Look, I'm REALLY looking forward to this game. Primarily because I LOVE Goldeneye 64. Me and countless others. And ACTIVISION KNOWS IT.

This game is not original. It's a reimagining of one of the greatest games ever made. The Ad campaign states "Goldeneye is BACK!" Not, "Goldeneye WII is HERE," or even "JAMES BOND is BACK." No, Goldeneye is back. How could something completely original be back? In order to be back, you had to be here, gone, and return. Therefore, they ARE saying this IS Goldeneye.

I don't want to play Goldeneye 64 straight up like was the plan with the Xbox 360 update. The dam level looks amazing. It has the classics (camera sweep, tower with sniper, green truck, similar looking layout on the dam, etc.) while updating (new objectives, sequences, areas). This is a great way of maintaining the feel of Goldeneye, WHICH THEY CLEARLY WANT TO DO, while also giving us something new to play with.

Unfortunately, the same CANNOT be said about the multiplayer levels. They could have given us a whole new Facility layout while keeping the classic elements, like the God Damned Bathroom.

But GOLDENEYE, is not ORIGINAL. One could even call it a RIP-OFF. I won't, because I want to believe it is a loving adaption, but things like calling something Facility, and then delivering what they did makes me think RIP-OFF. No where in Goldeneye the movie is that location labeled "Facility." So you can't say, "oh, it's their facility. Duh" THEY KNOW THE HISTORY BEHIND THAT MAP NAME. They know what people will think when they see in their little ads that this game HAS FACILITY. It's damn well near false advertising.

Edited by British Chap, 11 October 2010 - 04:40 AM.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

It is bizarre to name the map named facility given its history (as noted the map has appeared in several games, even a non-Rare game) and have the suitable bathroom area in single player, but not include it in multiplayer.

I can do without it, but I'm not particularly taken by the look of the maps in general. Too many big open areas, where GoldenEye was always more of a corridor shooter. I'll also miss the 'maze' type levels that weren't based off any practical or real world based design, but were just designed for fun, like Complex and Library. I'd love a injection of surreal into the multiplayer portion even if it doesn't make sense for a Craig Bond single player game.

[YouKnowTheName]

You make some good points British Chap. On reflection, Activision have been giving some very mixed signals with the pitch for this game, claiming it's not a remake while proclaiming GoldenEye to be "back".

But history or no, they are under no obligation to copy the original. If Facility means Original GoldenEye Facility, then logically the same applies to all the other maps. So you either avoid ALL locations from GoldenEye, which is missing the point, or you simply clone the original, also missing the point. And what's so special about MP, that single player can change the Facility to fit in with the new story yet MP Facility means original Facility? That means all the single player have to be the same as well. And if they're aware of the history, they'll KNOW that Brosnan was Bond in GoldenEye, so that'll need changing...

You see? It's a slippery slope. As I've said before, this is to the original what Casino Royale was to the novel. Updating and throwing out all the old which is no longer relevant, in order to keep the game fresh and new while maintaining what made the original great. Give it space to be itself, rather than smothering it at birth with it's dead parent.

To be honest, I always prefered Stack, anyway.

And yeah, what happened to the more abstact maps? You know what would be cool? An MP map based on a title sequence, with funky colour schemes, giant guns and dancing girls as a background. It could be designed to any kind of architecture you want. Oh well...

[Iroquois]

I actually don't know which game I'm looking forward to most now. Blood Stone has all of the elements that I want in a Bond game, yet Goldeneye is just so intriguing.

Although the negativity has died down, I still don't understand what people are complaining about. I mean yes, Activision's reasoning behind making this game is money driven, the game wouldn't have been made otherwise. But Eurocom are doing everything right as far as I'm concerned. As YouKnowTheName has said, this game is doing to the N64 version what Casino Royale did to the novel. That way it stands out on it's own and doesn't do any damage to the original. It's great that Daniel Craig is Bond in this version (in fact, that's my favourite thing about it) and it doesn't stick a middle finger up to Brosnan since this is the Re-booted Bond now, he's a different character. It's just another take on the story.

Also, hell yes to the title sequence map idea. I don't know why games don't seem to have many abstract maps anymore (besides Mario), it's not like multiplayer is meant to make sense anyway.

[British Chap]

You make some good points British Chap. On reflection, Activision have been giving some very mixed signals with the pitch for this game, claiming it's not a remake while proclaiming GoldenEye to be "back".

But history or no, they are under no obligation to copy the original. If Facility means Original GoldenEye Facility, then logically the same applies to all the other maps. So you either avoid ALL locations from GoldenEye, which is missing the point, or you simply clone the original, also missing the point. And what's so special about MP, that single player can change the Facility to fit in with the new story yet MP Facility means original Facility? That means all the single player have to be the same as well. And if they're aware of the history, they'll KNOW that Brosnan was Bond in GoldenEye, so that'll need changing...

You see? It's a slippery slope. As I've said before, this is to the original what Casino Royale was to the novel. Updating and throwing out all the old which is no longer relevant, in order to keep the game fresh and new while maintaining what made the original great. Give it space to be itself, rather than smothering it at birth with it's dead parent.

To be honest, I always prefered Stack, anyway.

And yeah, what happened to the more abstact maps? You know what would be cool? An MP map based on a title sequence, with funky colour schemes, giant guns and dancing girls as a background. It could be designed to any kind of architecture you want. Oh well...

Again, they could've gone with a hybrid, as they did with the dam single player level. That's the best case scenario. But instead it doesn't appear that they used any of the facility map at all. They have the bathroom in single player. So...they've already copied it.

And brilliant map idea!

[YouKnowTheName]

The Dam isn't really a hybrid, it's just the first bit bolted onto and otherwise new level. And we don't know how the new Facility will play out.

Really, I have no intention of even touching the MP anyway, so I appreciate if it's something you feel strongly about and it's getting under your skin. After all, my posts on EON are still around, and I'm pretty crushed by how Blood Stone seems to have turned out, too. Just try not to let your knowledge of the original dampen your enjoyment of what looks to be a great game. Perhaps this rather boring new trailer will take your mind off it a bit...



And thanks for all your support of my map idea. YOU SEE, GAME DEVS? THAT'S HOW EASY IT IS TO COME UP WITH JUST SOMETHING IMAGINITIVE!

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 11 October 2010 - 11:22 PM.

[Mr.Zukovsky]

I don't if this has been posted already on here, but here is the 2nd part of the character selection from Goldeneye wii.

link:

[British Chap]

The Dam isn't really a hybrid, it's just the first bit bolted onto and otherwise new level. And we don't know how the new Facility will play out.

Really, I have no intention of even touching the MP anyway, so I appreciate if it's something you feel strongly about and it's getting under your skin. After all, my posts on EON are still around, and I'm pretty crushed by how Blood Stone seems to have turned out, too. Just try not to let your knowledge of the original dampen your enjoyment of what looks to be a great game. Perhaps this rather boring new trailer will take your mind off it a bit...



And thanks for all your support of my map idea. YOU SEE, GAME DEVS? THAT'S HOW EASY IT IS TO COME UP WITH JUST SOMETHING IMAGINITIVE!

http://www.ign.com/v...objectid=867280

Looks like a graphically updated version of the dam to me. I know it isn't much/doesn't take much, but neither does adding a god damned bathroom somewhere.

[DamnCoffee]

I don't understand the point of all of this multiplayer crap. It looks awful. We've had countless trailers over it as well, and not many on the actual gameplay.

Ah well, it's their own fault of the game tanks.

[Matt_13]

Yeah they really love pushing the MP. I know that it's going to be a deep experience (zing!) with tons of customizable options, but frankly the single player looks far more rewarding. Having a 007 difficulty with health pack pick ups is amazing, why aren't they advertising that?

[K1Bond007]

Part II of classic characters.

[British Chap]

Perhaps this rather boring new trailer will take your mind off it a bit...

I don't if this has been posted already on here, but here is the 2nd part of the character selection from Goldeneye wii.

link:

Part II of classic characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3wxcyL49Po

So....I'm getting this sneaking suspicion that part II of the "classic characters" trailer is out??

[YouKnowTheName]

Yeah. Slow news day.

Just found YET ANOTHER MP vid. Nothing at all different in this one, but you can hear some truly lovely work from David Arnold (probably) if you listen closely.



Also, a new interview explain (very well, I think) more of the reasoning on casting Craig, for those who still can't see it was a good idea. Also, interesting stuff about EON stepping in for the casting.

http://www.digitalsp...deneye-007.html

And a new cast member listed on IMDB. A hot girl playing... SGT. Garcia? Interesting.... check her out.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2176092/

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 13 October 2010 - 12:32 PM.

[dinovelvet]

Part II of classic characters.

Rosa Klebb? Well that was unexpected. And its the Charles Gray DAF Blofeld! Awesome, I am totally going to play as him. Hopefully he has a 'dress in drag' powerup.

[bond_azoozbond]

Check this video some new footage here :

[Matt_13]

Ben Cooke is a beast.

[YouKnowTheName]

ELLIOT COWAN is Trevelyan?! I was on the phone to him less than a week ago! He's rehearsing a play with (ironically) Samantha Bond!

I really can overstate how much I love that they've really used the actors they've cast instead of just designing some cookie cutter characters and sticking the voices on them. The film scenes look to be amazing adn the likeness of Daniel Craig is at the very least equal to that in Blood Stone.

The shot of the animated disembodied arm makes it look like it's be one of the first person games where you can't see your own legs though that's disappointing.

[Matt_13]

Here we go, more on the story.

[Chief of SIS]

Here we go, more on the story.

I wish it wasn't called 'Goldeneye.' The differences in story may be a little too much for me to handle. Anywho, looks fair enough. Some environments looked fantastic for a Wii, others looked atrocious. Nice to see some one player.

[DamnCoffee]

Looks alright. I won't be in a rush to get it though.

[YouKnowTheName]

I see what Chief means, there are huge jumps in quality form place to place. It's really ticking my nostalgia spot though, in a way that it wouldn't without such a modernisation. After all, one classic line in a new context evokes the past, a whole level designed and presented the same merely wallows in it. I think the limited graphical capabilities of the Wii could end up working in it's favour in this respect, especially running on technology from before human models had that creepy waxwork sheen to them.

Looks like they're making a real effort to mix it up with non-shooting bits. I like the bit where Bond has his hands tied and I'm not sure what's going on with the bikes. The big game-breaking flaw (and there must be one, because one always jumps out of the woodwork 10 minutes into a Bond game) will probably lie in... Not getting the shooting mechanics down pat, Being too short, Being glitchy, pulling any stupid story crap like having Oddjob jump out at you on the Cradle or something, being as restrictively linear as everything since NightFire, leaning too heavily on the original.

Just noticed- the big door at the start of the Dam has B-23 written on it. Full marks for optimism...

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 14 October 2010 - 10:27 PM.

[Matt_13]

Nightfire is a damn good Bond adventure in my opinion. All shooters are linear to a degree, they have to be. A story has to follow a path if it's going to be effective. Everything or Nothing is a pretty great experience, and it follows an extremely linear path. If you look at the output,there really weren't that many bad Bond games, and each one follows the same linear formula. FRWL, GE:RA, and QoS are the only ones that I think count as atrocious. Even still, all of those games, though complete misfires, ran just fine, and had some decent elements to them. They were just boring as hell, and were frustrating for the same reason a lot of shooters are frustrating: Developers are too lazy to come up with a real challenge for the player, so instead of putting an intricate puzzle for us to solve, they throw hundreds of bad guys at you and say "Have fun!" So long as GE 007 and Blood Stone avoid that issue (something I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about) we'll be fine. QoS was only a misfire because Treyarch really isn't that great of a production company, and the game was so unspectacular and bland that nothing could help it (the QTE take downs were horrible, and though interesting in concept, the cover system was basically forced on the player at certain points, and stealth was practically nonexistent). The general output of that company has never been met with critical acclaim anyway, and every single game they have released has had the same problems: poor level design, boring weapons, bland characters, and hordes of bad guys that never seem to stop spawning (plus, a continued use of IW's COD4 engine). I don't see GE facing these problems, in fact I think it looks really promising (and as someone mentioned above, Eurocom is a good developer). My concern for my own selfish enjoyment will be whether the game will look ok on my 48 inch HD tv, which, truth be told, hasn't been able to run my Wii games without the images blurring considerably (except in the sidescrollers like Mario). Fingers are definitely crossed, but seriously guys, I think Blood Stone holds the most promise here.

[YouKnowTheName]

I have to leap to Treyarch's defense (to a small degree). Lets not forget they turned out the bum-clenchingly brilliant Spider-Man 2, which was for Spidey what GoldenEye was to Bond.

After Eurocom's efforts, NightFire and (let's not forget) the surprisingly good TWINE, QOS definitely stands as the best Bond game. It's still not GOOD, but using the COD engine means the game has silky smooth, perfectly balanced gunplay, which had been sorely lacking since GE64. It also has a strong emphasis on giving you the choice between stealth and action, until the bits where every enemy sees you through a wall because Treyarch decided they wanted an action scene and OH DEAR.

QOS's main problem is it's linearity. It's the biggest problem of the series, only EON and FRWL have bigger problems that dwarf it. It doesn't have to be completely open, it doesn't really have to be much less linear, it just has to FEEL it. RE4, for example, is very linear, but you never feel forced except when the game wants you to.

EON, as always, is the worst offender, offering completely linear levels AS WELL AS OTT visual cues to guide you AS WELL AS having M just outright tell you everything even if you're already doing it. The main reason it fails is the only reason QOS succeeds on any level- the mechanics. It was an absolutely disastrous decision to use an auto aim system, and one that's broken beyond use, which just kills the whole game dead. Even in FRWL, in which it was hugely fixed, it just showed what a bad idea it was in the first place because then the player is truly surplus to requirements.

I've really never been able to pick which is genuinelt the worst out of EON and FRWL. Both are essentially the same game, both have the same major flaws, both are great to look at and listen to but impossible to play. EON's second biggest problem is the story, which is far closer to James Bond Jr. than anything resembling an adult film, but it's War and Peace next to FRWL's crack-addled mangling of the source material. But this is balanced by FRWL actually being functional, if no fun... it's a genuine toss up.

Really, though, EON was the turning point. It was a bad idea to make a sequel rathen than addressing the problems with it, and FRWL failed so badly it lost EA the license. QOS sold more than any Bond game since AUF (EA's biggest seller by far. So much for trying to hide behind big name casting.) and got relatively inoffensive reviews. Assuming it didn't turn players right off the francise for good I'd say the two newcomers might have a reasonable chance. But so far GoldenEye looks the most promising, as it is genuinely trying to do something new, whereas BS seems to be heading down the same pit as EON/FRWL. A curious choice by Activision. One can only assume they read forums ike this and are attempting to please everyone, which was another mistake QOS made.

But of course, you want a great Bond, you gotta dust off that N64...