2121 replies to this topic

[Loomis]

Regarding your other demand, yea, a 2 second Google search is really difficult...

Goodness. It seems, then, that the cover of CARTE BLANCHE isn't something that's totally unique and unprecedented in publishing history. Must be rubbish and a ripoff.

I don't notice anyone complaining about the thousands of times that Bond book covers and movie posters have shown guns or silhouettes or beautiful women or tuxedos, but as soon as smoke appears more than two or three times some people start crying foul.

[Harry Fawkes]

AFTER HIS STUNNING SUCCESS IN

CARTE BLANCHE

JAMES BOND IS BACK

IN

JEFFREY DEAVER'S

COUPE DE GRACE

Sorry couldn't resist that!

Nah, but seriously as a devoted Bond fan (Both the books and the films) I find that Carte Blanche actually rings true to what Ian Fleming's James Bond stands for.

I can even understand where Deaver is going to take me with this.

The cover really grabbed my attention. There's something about it. Can't actually put my finger on what it actually is, but believe me, I can see Ian Fleming written all over the thing. Look closely at the smoke and its twirl. What does it say to you?

To me it says: Sexy, hard edged, violent, daring and above all dangerous charm.

Maybe it's me and my madness I don't know, but that's the whole truth and nothing but the truth of what I saw when I first set eyes on that cover.

So, to conclude, well done to whoever designed it.

Of course, at the end of the day, you've just got to have the eye!

Harry Fawkes

[doublenoughtspy]

Is there no room for people on these boards to not like this cover and title?

I guess not.

I don't have a problem with the title. While I wouldn't call it "Bondian", it does leave a lot to the imagination which I think is good.

But you do have the weirdness of British Hero, American Author, Dubai location, and, um, French title.

Regarding the cover, I realize it is difficult to come up with something unique for a fiction series that is almost 60 years old.

Fleming agonized over his covers. He paid money out of his own pocket for Chopping because Jonathan Cape would only spend a pittance on covers.

I can't say that the CB cover required much more than a passing knowledge of Photoshop to create. Some of you like the minimalism and I'm happy for you. But I hope you'd at least acknowledge that minimalism isn't for everybody.

[Loomis]

I have a list of preferred titles but I won't post them, because they'll just get shot down.

How can you have a list of preferred titles when nothing (or at least next to nothing) is known about the book's storyline, incidents and characters? I mean, do you also have a list of preferred titles for BOND 23?

[Jim]

Not sure any of that finding posters stuff is getting anyone anywhere.

The first one was a poster.

The next two were book covers. ( http://www.billcamer...ng_smoke.shtml )

OK good. That's that done then, and you win, and you're King of that thing, whatever it was.

I make the current score 145,456 internets to you and 145,455 internets to everyone else. Great. When can it stop or does it only end at death?

Is there no room for people on these boards to not like this cover and title?

As much room as there is for people not to like the posts about people not liking the cover and title.

[zencat]

Is there no room for people on these boards to not like this cover and title?

Of course there is. We even have a poll.

[Righty007]

Carte Blanche is now on Wikipedia.

Whoever has been updating this page is doing a great job.

[doublenoughtspy]

OK good. That's that done then, and you win, and you're King of that thing, whatever it was.

I make the current score 145,456 internets to you and 145,455 internets to everyone else. Great. When can it stop or does it only end at death?

So it would have been much more convenient for me, or you rather, to accept Loomis' blanket statement that no other book, record, poster or any other media had ever used smoke on its cover?

[Loomis]

So it would have been much more convenient for me, or you rather, to accept Loomis' blanket statement that no other book, record, poster or any other media had ever used smoke on its cover?

But I made no such statement. What I typed was: "I can't think of a single ad poster, film poster, book cover, album cover or whatever (Bond or otherwise) that features "wispy photo shopped smoke". Not a single one. Let alone one that features this smoke and nothing else."

Which is hardly the same thing as stating that I am satisfied that such a thing has never existed in the history of humanity.

I stated that I couldn't think of any examples. Shame on me for not remembering that DIE ANOTHER DAY teaser poster or that BLOFELD TRILOGY cover art. Silly, ignorant me for never having heard of this Bill Cameron fella or his book CHASING SMOKE. Sheesh.

[zencat]

[Shame on me for not remembering that DIE ANOTHER DAY teaser poster...

Yeah, actually, shame on you for not remembering that. What kind of obsessive are you? Break out your Bond Poster book and bone up please We've got a reputation to uphold around here.

(I forgot about the Blofeld cover myself.)

[Loomis]

MONDAYS ARE HELL, THE ROUGH WITH THE SMOOTH, FROM A WHISPER TO A SCREAM, FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY, SHATTERHAND, ICEBREAKER, BY ROYAL COMMAND, THE EYE THAT NEVER SLEEPS, etc....

Those are appropriate titles for Bond films or books? I can't agree with most of them. MONDAYS ARE HELL sounds like a Steve Carrell comedy, while FROM A WHISPER TO A SCREAM sounds like a horror film (indeed I have a feeling it's already been used for a horror film). THE EYE THAT NEVER SLEEPS sounds like a sci-fi thriller, while FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY is the title of a Denzel Washington flick from the late 1980s.

Most of those titles are generic, unwieldy and far too fannish.

[Shame on me for not remembering that DIE ANOTHER DAY teaser poster...

Yeah, actually, shame on you for not remembering that. What kind of obsessive are you? Break out your Bond Poster book and bone up please We've got a reputation to uphold around here.

[Santa]

But you do have the weirdness of British Hero, American Author, Dubai location, and, um, French title.

The whole thing seems pretty Americanised to me.

[Jim]

OK good. That's that done then, and you win, and you're King of that thing, whatever it was.

I make the current score 145,456 internets to you and 145,455 internets to everyone else. Great. When can it stop or does it only end at death?

So it would have been much more convenient for me, or you rather, to accept Loomis' blanket statement that no other book, record, poster or any other media had ever used smoke on its cover?

As he didn't assert that, neither of us needs to be inconvenienced.

[Mr. Blofeld]

Excellent title. It's short, but gets to the point. It is provocative and action-oriented. I think Fleming would approve.

It's a poor watcher of the news who doesn't know what "blood libel" means...

[OmarB]

Carte Blanche is now on Wikipedia.

Whoever has been updating this page is doing a great job.

Except for it being the 37th Bond novel. Either that guy's right and I imagined reading a lot more than that ... or, well.

[zencat]

Excellent title. It's short, but gets to the point. It is provocative and action-oriented. I think Fleming would approve.

It's a poor watcher of the news who doesn't know what "blood libel" means...

Please don't go there.

[doublenoughtspy]

But I made no such statement. What I typed was: "I can't think of a single ad poster, film poster, book cover, album cover or whatever (Bond or otherwise) that features "wispy photo shopped smoke". Not a single one. Let alone one that features this smoke and nothing else."

Your statement uses "single" multiple times, implying that the CB cover's use of wispy smoke is unique.

I hope my examples, which for some reason have provoked Jim's ire, have proven that not only is it not unique, it has been used, multiple times, recently in Bond media.

I have no idea what covers/posters etc. you've seen or not seen. But I don't think the DAD poster or the Blofeld Trilogy cover could really be considered obscure.

[Jim]

It's the "I can't think of..." which was surely pertinent.

I can't think where I've put my house keys. This doesn't mean I haven't seen my house keys or that I'm denying that I have house keys or that my house keys are obscure.

Perhaps you could do me a Google search for those. There's a helpful chap.

[doublenoughtspy]

MONDAYS ARE HELL, THE ROUGH WITH THE SMOOTH, FROM A WHISPER TO A SCREAM, FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY, SHATTERHAND, ICEBREAKER, BY ROYAL COMMAND, THE EYE THAT NEVER SLEEPS, etc....

Those are appropriate titles for Bond films or books? I can't agree with most of them. MONDAYS ARE HELL sounds like a Steve Carrell comedy, while FROM A WHISPER TO A SCREAM sounds like a horror film (indeed I have a feeling it's already been used for a horror film). THE EYE THAT NEVER SLEEPS sounds like a sci-fi thriller, while FOR QUEEN AND COUNTRY is the title of a Denzel Washington flick from the late 1980s.

Most of those titles are generic, unwieldy and far too fannish.

[Shame on me for not remembering that DIE ANOTHER DAY teaser poster...

Yeah, actually, shame on you for not remembering that. What kind of obsessive are you? Break out your Bond Poster book and bone up please We've got a reputation to uphold around here.

Loomis, you realize that two of those were original Fleming titles?

Mondays are Hell - that is a Fleming title. It's the original title of Moonraker.

Rough with the Smooth - original title of FYEO.

Not too fannish I'd say.

[doublenoughtspy]

It's the "I can't think of..." which was surely pertinent.

It's the person saying it that is just as pertinent, surely? Someone who has never seen any Bond book or media covers making a statement "I can't think of any posters that have guns on them" - well that doesn't mean much.

Loomis is a long standing member of this site, and what I would call a reasonably well-informed Bond fan.

I would assume a reasonably well-informed Bond fan would remember the DAD poster and the Blofeld trilogy cover.

But if even Zencat didn't remember it, I guess I stand corrected and it is an "obscure thing only a few Bond weenies would know or remember."

Forgive me the ultimate sin of showing that smoke has been used in other Bond media.

[Righty007]

Carte Blanche is now on Wikipedia.

Whoever has been updating this page is doing a great job.

Except for it being the 37th Bond novel. Either that guy's right and I imagined reading a lot more than that ... or, well.

The Wikipedia page for Devil May Care calls that book the 36th. Based on their count of strictly Fleming, Amis, Gardner, Benson, and Faulks' original novels, Carte Blanche will be the 37th.

[zencat]

I would assume a reasonably well-informed Bond fan would remember the DAD poster and the Blofeld trilogy cover.

But if even Zencat didn't remember it, I guess I stand corrected and it is an "obscure thing only a few Bond weenies would know or remember."

The DAD poster I remembered. In fact, I considered a post saying how the smoke could be from a gun like the DAD poster. The Blofeld Trilogy cover I didn't remember. Although I might have if challenged on it.

Just protecting my geek cred.

Carte Blanche is now on Wikipedia.

Whoever has been updating this page is doing a great job.

Except for it being the 37th Bond novel. Either that guy's right and I imagined reading a lot more than that ... or, well.

The Wikipedia page for Devil May Care calls that book the 36th. Based on their count of strictly Fleming, Amis, Gardner, Benson, and Faulks' original novels, Carte Blanche will be the 37th.

I count 53, including novelizations, Young Bond, and Moneypenny Diaries.

Excluding these, CB is #40, but you need to include YB, I think, unless you want to add the word "adult".

[Righty007]

I would assume a reasonably well-informed Bond fan would remember the DAD poster and the Blofeld trilogy cover.

But if even Zencat didn't remember it, I guess I stand corrected and it is an "obscure thing only a few Bond weenies would know or remember."

The DAD poster I remembered. In fact, I considered a post saying how the smoke could be from a gun like the DAD poster. The Blofeld Trilogy cover I didn't remember. Although I might have if challenged on it.

Just protecting my geek cred.

Carte Blanche is now on Wikipedia.

Whoever has been updating this page is doing a great job.

Except for it being the 37th Bond novel. Either that guy's right and I imagined reading a lot more than that ... or, well.

The Wikipedia page for Devil May Care calls that book the 36th. Based on their count of strictly Fleming, Amis, Gardner, Benson, and Faulks' original novels, Carte Blanche will be the 37th.

I count 53, including novelizations, Young Bond, and Moneypenny Diaries (excluding 003 1/2).

Me too, however, I feel obligated to follow the pattern already established on Wikipedia. I'd hate to confuse some ill informed chap by going from #36 to #54 with one book.

EDIT: The word "James Bond novels" is used, which in the context signifies adult and excludes the Young Bond novels because the pages for those books say things like "depicts Ian Fleming's superspy James Bond as a teenager in the 1930s."

[zencat]

EDIT: The word "James Bond novels" is used, which in the context signifies adult and excludes the Young Bond novels because the pages for those books say things like "depicts Ian Fleming's superspy James Bond as a teenager in the 1930s."

Even excluding YB, Moneypenny, and novelizations, I count CB as #40.

Wikipedia can be a mess. I used to try and keep the Houdini page updated, but it's hopeless.

[marktmurphy]

The cover really grabbed my attention. There's something about it. Can't actually put my finger on what it actually is, but believe me, I can see Ian Fleming written all over the thing. Look closely at the smoke and its twirl. What does it say to you?

Arf!

Anyhoo; this thread has gone downhill a bit, hasn't it?

The Wikipedia page for Devil May Care calls that book the 36th. Based on their count of strictly Fleming, Amis, Gardner, Benson, and Faulks' original novels, Carte Blanche will be the 37th.

I count 53, including novelizations, Young Bond, and Moneypenny Diaries.

Excluding these, CB is #40, but you need to include YB, I think, unless you want to add the word "adult".

I don't think I'd count Moneypenny Diaries because they're more a spinoff, but it's hard to argue against the novelizations: they strictly are James Bond novels, hard to deny it. And I can't find a reason to keep YB off the list, so yeah; must be 45 (is it?).

[K1Bond007]

I don't have a problem with the title. While I wouldn't call it "Bondian", it does leave a lot to the imagination which I think is good.

But you do have the weirdness of British Hero, American Author, Dubai location, and, um, French title.

Regarding the cover, I realize it is difficult to come up with something unique for a fiction series that is almost 60 years old.

Fleming agonized over his covers. He paid money out of his own pocket for Chopping because Jonathan Cape would only spend a pittance on covers.

I can't say that the CB cover required much more than a passing knowledge of Photoshop to create. Some of you like the minimalism and I'm happy for you. But I hope you'd at least acknowledge that minimalism isn't for everybody.

I like the title. It's not really Fleming, but I'm glad it's not really trying to be. At least that's my take.

The cover art, yeah. It's minimalist and I like that, but it's nothing special. It was probably whipped up in Photoshop in 5 minutes. It's not original as you've pointed out. It's definitely been done in the Bond world, usually with a gun, a cigarette or a cigar. Examples being the Die Another Day poster (Dr. No also does it), the Secret Servant cover, the recent Blofeld cover and it's been used more than once for the title sequences of some Bond movies. But nothing is original with the Bond world anymore. It's all been done. Girls, shadows, gunplay, smoke, fire, flowers, things you can smoke, coins, explosions, bugs, wood, skeletons, animals, odd-looking bad guys, mutations (I don't know what to call it, think Devil May Care flower / girl - Octopussy hair / octopus), outlines (including the more complex ones with something inside like The World Is Not Enough's fire girl), and even just random crap thrown on there (Pan used to do this).

As the start of a new series, I think it's simply fine. I think they could have done something else. If it were me in charge, I would have looked to Casino Royale and the other pre-Chopping Fleming first editions. They're simple, sometimes just elegant looking text and that's alright. I think they work wonderfully for the beginning of a series and there's something about not looking cliche Bond or spy that is quite attracting to me at the moment.

[zencat]

The Wikipedia page for Devil May Care calls that book the 36th. Based on their count of strictly Fleming, Amis, Gardner, Benson, and Faulks' original novels, Carte Blanche will be the 37th.

I count 53, including novelizations, Young Bond, and Moneypenny Diaries.

Excluding these, CB is #40, but you need to include YB, I think, unless you want to add the word "adult".

I don't think I'd count Moneypenny Diaries because they're more a spinoff, but it's hard to argue against the novelizations: they strictly are James Bond novels, hard to deny it. And I can't find a reason to keep YB off the list, so yeah; must be 45 (is it?).

Here we go:

http://debrief.comma...the-bond-books/

[Loomis]

Loomis, you realize that two of those were original Fleming titles?

Mondays are Hell - that is a Fleming title. It's the original title of Moonraker.

Rough with the Smooth - original title of FYEO.

Might it be, though, that not every single title Fleming ever thought up was pure gold? I mean, I don't think THE UNDERTAKER'S WIND would work very well if used as a continuation novel or film title these days.

Just because something was once a Fleming chapter title or an unused title for a Fleming novel, it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be a no-brainer for Eon or IFP to use it today.

And by "fannish", I don't mean that these titles have been thought up by fans, but merely that certain people are choosing these titles for fannish reasons, i.e. purely because they have some association with Fleming.

[marktmurphy]

I do tend to think that The World Is Not Enough is the best title Fleming never used.

[terminus]

Just because something was once a Fleming chapter title or an unused title for a Fleming novel, it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be a no-brainer for Eon or IFP to use it today.

And by "fannish", I don't mean that these titles have been thought up by fans, but merely that certain people are choosing these titles for fannish reasons, i.e. purely because they have some association with Fleming.

Agreed. I remember after 'Die Another Day' came out, the multitude of people suggesting that 'Sex for Dinner, Death for Breakfast' ought to be a title, on that assumption alone. Heavens, I might have been one of those people - but I can see now that the Fleming connection isn't going to be enough to validate a title as being worthy for a Bond film/book/comic/