2121 replies to this topic

[Jack Spang]

Not that I'm complaining but it's so strange having young Bond adventures set in the 1930's and an adult Bond set in 2010 where Bond was born in the early 80's. I hope Bond will atleast be 30 years old. I would just feel better if a 3 came at the beginning of his age. 20 something just seems too young even if he is 29.

Edited by Jack Spang, 24 June 2010 - 12:13 AM.

[TheREAL008]

Nice to see that he's been doing his homework on Afghanistan.

The British operation in the war Operation Herrick.

Personally I know that the British Forces have been conducting heavy fighting over the years on the Helmand Province in the south of Afghanistan.

And yes this would include the Royal Navy and the SBS and Military Intelligence.

Could this be where Project X Bond will be fighting? Assassinations? 2 Kills? Approached by MI6?

Just guessing.

That's what I'm hoping for.

[David Schofield]

My question: I noted that, in their day, the Fleming books were considered quite sexy (even dirty by some critics) but that some of the recent continuation novels where pretty tame in this regard (especially DMC); was he was going to put some Fleming-like sex into his book? I don't remember his exact words but the answer was essentially a very big YES. Think he might have said something like, "I have a few scenes you're really going to like."

A nice personal treat was when I went up to get my book signed (I brought with me the CR with his intro), I introduced myself and he knew who I was (via IFP)! He said he's been meaning to get in touch and would do so when he was done with his tour. He even shook my hand. Very flattering moment.

He's also well aware now of the online reaction,

You'll always be a fan of this guy, Zen, won't you?

Disappointed Deaver responded this way to the sex. Most Bond fans have it, know how it goes, know what's gonna happen when Bond and the girl get together. You wanna get off on it a bit kinker/can't get it at all, there's the Net. Do we really need Deaver chucking in hard nookie these days in a Bond novel??? What Fleming wrote in the 50s might have titiltated some, but this is 2010! Hope Deaver isn't just "ticking a box".....

[Trident]

Was Fleming's sex really all that shocking back in the day? I mean, compared to Henry Miller and Anais Nin (to name but a few) Fleming's erotic scenes surely can be considered extremely mild, bordering on innocent. I'd have no problem seeing any of lit-Bond's sex scenes being adapted with Doris Day and Rock Hudson. The actual act always happened behind the curtain and Bond's reminiscences on, for example, his train journey from Miami to New York with Jill Masterton is hardly any racier than Hudson's (or James Garner's, for that matter) vague smile featured in the films of that era.

What did shock in Fleming's day was probably more that a member of the upper class happily indulged in writing this daydream stuff. And that his works depicted a hero who, despite being a civil servant of HMG, contradicted many traditional moral standards that were obligatory for the time, at least on the surface. In reality, Fleming's sexlife apparently had been quite similar (if perhaps not exactly as successful as Bond's) even before the war, long before Bond first saw print. As neither Fleming was considered an amoral satyr, nor his girlfriends a buch of incurable nymphomaniacs, there is really only one conclusion, that the standards of moral and decency, against which Bond supposedly contravened, were long since crumbling under the onslaught of 'Postmodernism'. What Fleming depicted in '53 and onwards is really only what was already happening, even before the pill boosted the trend.

Nonetheless, today sex is far more present in our society and plays a crucial role in most people's lives. Of course sex will also have to be present in X-Bond, otherwise the character would lack an important side. This would not necessarily mean more explicit or more 'kink' scenes. But our day and age is also a little beyond the Doris-Day-School-of-Wickedness. Necessary would be a carefully balanced approach here.

[Loomis]

He's also well aware now of the online reaction

In that case, he must be delighted, because the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive and supportive (at least on CBn - don't know about other Bond sites).

[zencat]

Disappointed Deaver responded this way to the sex. Most Bond fans have it, know how it goes, know what's gonna happen when Bond and the girl get together. You wanna get off on it a bit kinker/can't get it at all, there's the Net. Do we really need Deaver chucking in hard nookie these days in a Bond novel??? What Fleming wrote in the 50s might have titiltated some, but this is 2010! Hope Deaver isn't just "ticking a box".....

Was Fleming's sex really all that shocking back in the day? I mean, compared to Henry Miller and Anais Nin (to name but a few) Fleming's erotic scenes surely can be considered extremely mild, bordering on innocent. I'd have no problem seeing any of lit-Bond's sex scenes being adapted with Doris Day and Rock Hudson. The actual act always happened behind the curtain and Bond's reminiscences on, for example, his train journey from Miami to New York with Jill Masterton is hardly any racier than Hudson's (or James Garner's, for that matter) vague smile featured in the films of that era.

Well, when I talk about "sex" in Fleming, I'm not necessarily talking about the inevitable act itself with the lead girl (although that's part of it of course). Even Deaver said Fleming usually didn't go into great detail in these scenes. I'm talking more about the environment of seduction and sex that fills the books -- there's a lot of titillation, suggestion, and hints of fetish. The lingering description of the massage, Klebbs freaky seduction of Tatiana, and nude gyspy fight in FRWL -- that's all "sex." As is the painted Jill in GF and the nude Honey on Crab Key. Fleming's descriptions of women is always erotic (and objectifying), and the books are peppered with sexual insights from the ultra experienced 007 ("Can't make love on a pillow mattress."). That's more what I mean. A world filled with danger and "sex." It was amazing (and disappointing) how tame DMC was in this regard.

[Trident]

Well, when I talk about "sex" in Fleming, I'm not necessarily talking about the inevitable act itself with the lead girl (although that's part of it of course). Even Deaver said Fleming usually didn't go into great detail in these scenes. I'm talking more about the environment of seduction and sex that fills the books -- there's a lot of titillation, suggestion, and hints of fetish. The lingering description of the massage, Klebbs freaky seduction of Tatiana, and nude gyspy fight in FRWL -- that's all "sex." As is the painted Jill in GF and the nude Honey on Crab Key. Fleming's descriptions of women is always erotic (and objectifying), and the books are peppered with sexual insights from the ultra experienced 007 ("Can't make love on a pillow mattress."). That's more what I mean. A world filled with danger and "sex." It was amazing (and disappointing) how tame DMC was in this regard.

Oh yes, Fleming's books are definitely 'suggestive' in a lot of ways. Bond's adventures are always a most sensual experience, the emphasis firmly centred on Bond's feelings and sensations, particularly where his appreciation of women is concerned. A return of this relishing side of Bond's erotic awareness would be most welcome.

[zencat]

Good, someone understands me.

I realize this happens a lot when I talk about "sex" in Bond (book and film). People think this only means the act. No. I don't even need the act if I have everything else.

It's an argument that can be made about Young Bond. People say the books don't have "sex." Sure they do. Bond isn't having it, but he clearly has opportunity. It's part of his world.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Case well put.

But my thoughts on the Bond Lit Sex.....

I always thought Fleming dealt with it quite well. Gardner or Benson had some bits that didn't sit to well with me. I don't want to know about Bonds tongue searching for........yuck. I would imagine Deaver has read all the Flemings again and got a feel for it so to speak. Less is more. That's what I tell them.

[zencat]

Again, we are not talking about the act, we're not asking for more explicit descriptions, we are talking about the sexual environment of Fleming's world.

[Trident]

Perhaps it's best descibed as a somewhat 'juvenile' fascination with the sensual-sexual offerings every day holds. If one is open to them, that is. Many of us lose that openness with the years, which is perhaps why Fleming also often was chided as pubertal where in fact he's just managed to hold on to a tiny but precious part of his youth.

[terminus]

Oh, yes, I hope we don't get a repeat of the level of description of the Tylyn sex scene in Project X.

[Quantumofsolace007]

A few scenes... I wonder does this mean More then one girl.

I'm likeing this novel more and more and i haven't even read page 1.

[DAN LIGHTER]

Case well put.

But my thoughts on the Bond Lit Sex.....

I always thought Fleming dealt with it quite well. Gardner or Benson had some bits that didn't sit to well with me. I don't want to know about Bonds tongue searching for........yuck. I would imagine Deaver has read all the Flemings again and got a feel for it so to speak. Less is more. That's what I tell them.

Again, we are not talking about the act, we're not asking for more explicit descriptions, we are talking about the sexual environment of Fleming's world.

I got your point,you were not on about the sex more the sexed up scenes or atmosphere if you like, and I was going in the other direction by pondering how other writers in the Bond cannon have been a little bit to horny. And I think Deaver knows his Fleming, he will be on target with Project X.

[zencat]

Funny, but I don't even remember if Bond had sex in DMC. But I DO remember feeling the Paradise Club scene was very sexy in the Fleming mode (on my first read). It was exotic, I didn't know what sexual possibilities where available and that gave it sexual tension, and the description of everything was very sensual (even though, untimely, nothing happened).

[DAN LIGHTER]

Cant recall any bedtime gymnastics in DMC.

Might read it again one day and see if my view has changed. I liked it. But lets not do that here.

Back on topic.

[TheREAL008]

Supposing that Deaver writes more along the lines of passion? Meaning that Mr. Deaver will or might write along the lines of Bond noticing his "girl friday" and maybe build up the attraction to the point where Bond will want her, and then getting all Fleming'esque when it comes to sexual scenes within the novel?

[zencat]

Yeah, lots and lots of sensual build up, but then take it to the place Fleming never showed:

"Four minutes later it was all over and both felt inadequate."

[zencat]

Again, from the JD tour thread:

Just back. Another great event. Not too much new in regards to intel. JD did use the word reboot ("we're calling it a reboot"), and said they hadn't really settled on Bond's age (but it would be somewhere around 29/30). He also said he probably won't say exactly what year the book takes place, but it's 2010 or 2011. I asked about the title which yield some nice info that I will use to make a new thread. There was something else that I can't remember now, dang-it. Bryce and JD bonded over Bond's choice of alcohol and something else, but I'll leave to Bryce to tell you about that.

EDIT: Ah, I remember the other thing now. He said May 28, Fleming's birthday, is a Saturday so the book probably won't be released on that exact day. It'll be sometime around that date.

EDIT 2: Title thread here.

[Jim]

It all sounds reassuringly ghastly.

[zencat]

If you met JD I think you'd feel better about all this, Jim. He's clearly a smart and capable writer with a good understanding of Fleming and a desire to make this an excellent book.

[David Schofield]

Well, when I talk about "sex" in Fleming, I'm not necessarily talking about the inevitable act itself with the lead girl (although that's part of it of course). Even Deaver said Fleming usually didn't go into great detail in these scenes. I'm talking more about the environment of seduction and sex that fills the books -- there's a lot of titillation, suggestion, and hints of fetish. The lingering description of the massage, Klebbs freaky seduction of Tatiana, and nude gyspy fight in FRWL -- that's all "sex." As is the painted Jill in GF and the nude Honey on Crab Key. Fleming's descriptions of women is always erotic (and objectifying), and the books are peppered with sexual insights from the ultra experienced 007 ("Can't make love on a pillow mattress."). That's more what I mean. A world filled with danger and "sex." It was amazing (and disappointing) how tame DMC was in this regard.

Ah, that makes your meaning clearer.

[Jim]

If you met JD I think you'd feel better about all this, Jim. He's clearly a smart and capable writer with a good understanding of Fleming and a desire to make this an excellent book.

You misunderstand; I like ghastly.

Gives me something to whine about.

[zencat]

Ah, good. You've got a lot of look forward to then.

[TheREAL008]

I've got faith in Deaver to make a successful Bond novel. I just wish he would do more than just one.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I've got faith in Deaver to make a successful Bond novel. I just wish he would do more than just one.

I share this faith, although I am happy with the one book. He does not need to do another. Leave them wanting more. Look at Sex and the City 2, should have left it alone after the first film........

[zencat]

Hey, if Deaver does a good job, I'm all for him coming back and doing another. It wouldn't be until 2014 or so. Plenty of time for him to work up a new idea and the passion for another. Besides, most of the continuation authors got better as they went along.

[DAN LIGHTER]

I've got faith in Deaver to make a successful Bond novel. I just wish he would do more than just one.

I share this faith, although I am happy with the one book. He does not need to do another. Leave them wanting more. Look at Sex and the City 2, should have left it alone after the first film........

Hey, if Deaver does a good job, I'm all for him coming back and doing another. It wouldn't be until 2014 or so. Plenty of time for him to work up a new idea and the passion for another. Besides, most of the continuation authors got better as they went along.

You haven't seen Sex and the City 2 have you Zencat. Trust me, it's a good example.

I cant imagine he would have the time for a 2nd. If he does though well, fair play because one would hope it's been a success.

[terminus]

Indeed. I might not want Deaver to burn out by doing a yearly series in the Benson/Gardener mould, but if he does the first novel, let's another few authors take the reign for a couple of novels and then returns for the fifth or sixth novel, then I would be fine with that.

[zencat]

You haven't seen Sex and the City 2 have you Zencat. Trust me, it's a good example.

Have you seen From Russian With Love? Also a good example.

I cant imagine he would have the time for a 2nd. If he does though well, fair play because one would hope it's been a success.

Indeed. I might not want Deaver to burn out by doing a yearly series in the Benson/Gardener mould, but if he does the first novel, let's another few authors take the reign for a couple of novels and then returns for the fifth or sixth novel, then I would be fine with that.

That is the idea. He laid out his schedule through 2013 at the signing. After 2013 he's open and said "maybe another Bond book."