1228 replies to this topic

[Joe Bond]

Americans HATE Quantum.

What an absurd generalisation.

Sorry. I will reword it into a more politically correct form.

The rapidly diminishing box office figures in North America demonstrate that Quantum of Solace is not as popular as the opening day suggested. The movie will soon be taking less than Casino Royale, on an equivalent daily basis. This is despite Quantum taking substantially more on its opening. The logical conclusion is that enthusiasm for the movie is restricted and not as widespread as would have been hoped.

How can you say this when the monday take is still higher than CR's first Monday and the drop off is about the same as Madagascar 2. Why don't we just wait and see how much it takes before making generalizations before they happen. Plus QoS box office should not be compared to a summer movie it should be compared to a fall film and it will be successful if it out grosses CR domestically even if it does not top The Bourne Ultimatum's domestic take.

Americans HATE Quantum.

What an absurd generalisation.

Sorry. I will reword it into a more politically correct form.

The rapidly diminishing box office figures in North America demonstrate that Quantum of Solace is not as popular as the opening day suggested. The movie will soon be taking less than Casino Royale, on an equivalent daily basis. This is despite Quantum taking substantially more on its opening. The logical conclusion is that enthusiasm for the movie is restricted and not as widespread as would have been hoped.

The Monday figure USA 5 million less than Bourne Ultimatums's first Monday.

It is well less than half of Bourne Ultimatum.

How many ing times does this have to be explained to you?

Bourne came out in summer. KIDS AND TEENS DON'T GO TO SCHOOL ON SUMMER WEEKDAYS, SO BOX OFFICE IS UP.

Bond comes out in winter. KIDS AND TEENS DO HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL ON WINTER WEEEKDAYS, SO BOX OFFICE IS DOWN.

The comparison is meaningless and proves absolutely nothing about what audiences like and don't like.

No need to shoot the messenger.

Casino Royale was a November opening. Of course it means something when the movie opens getting on for double Casino on its first day and by the first week it is falling behind Casino. It means the movie is not being well received by audiences.

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

[Bond Bug]

I don't understand why Bond Bug wants QoS to do poorly at the B.O

You are well out of order. I've already had Dono swear at me on this thread. Look at post 42 on this thread. Does that sound like somebody who want the movie to do poorly?

I have written many times I hoped the movie would be the biggest Bond ever. I posted that people should go see the movie after a review advised not to.

This is a discussion forum. Sorry you cannot tolerate an alternative view to yours based on the US box office figures.

[blueman]

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

Don't confuse the issue with facts.

[bondrules]

I just find it odd that you are prophesying BO doom for QoS. That's all.

[Bond Bug]

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

I wrote "by the first week it is falling behind Casino."

There's still three more days of its first week. Take another look tomorrow.

[Bonita]

Here's the scoop on Monday's numbers:

CR was down 64.1% on its first Monday

QoS is down 71.9% - this is roughly 7% drop in comparison.

What this *might* mean is that QoS will not have the legs of Casino (i.e., drop at the box office more quickly).

Still, the key will be the drop seen this weekend, the question of the screens that QoS holds over Thanksgiving, and the gross over the Turkey Day holiday.

keep dancing...

read my QoS review: http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51624

[blueman]

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

I wrote "by the first week it is falling behind Casino."

There's still three more days of its first week. Take another look tomorrow.

So how come your excuse for Monday (oh yeah, you don't have one) is a better one than those cited for Sunday???

You WANT a certain outcome for QOS (ie negative). Not sure what that's about but everyone seems to be getting that drift from you. That's fine, but why not come back in January and see where QOS stands then, cuz doing this daily is gonna quickly become a big drag (it is now...). QOS is gonna do the biz it's gonna do, and by no non-biased measure could it be said to be doing poorly right now.

[Mike00spy]

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

I wrote "by the first week it is falling behind Casino."

There's still three more days of its first week. Take another look tomorrow.

Of course--

You are bound to be correct as CR's week overlapped the Thanksgiving Holiday whereas Qos does not.

That is why it will be less.

You cannot prove it has bad word of mouth.

Edited by Mike00spy, 18 November 2008 - 11:41 PM.

[Bonita]

How is it falling behind Casino when the Monday take for QoS was higher than CR's first Monday's take?

I wrote "by the first week it is falling behind Casino."

There's still three more days of its first week. Take another look tomorrow.

Of course--

You are bound to be correct as CR's week overlapped the Thanksgiving Holiday whereas Qos does not.

That is why it will be less.

You cannot prove it has bad word of mouth.

I want the film to do well. But there are some very troubling signs in the numbers.

If you look at Casino - a film that opened far less than QoS, you find that the drop from Sunday to Monday has a factor of 2.78. That means you multiply the Monday gross by 2.78 and you get the Sunday gross. Obviously, no drop off will give you a factor of 1. You want the lowest number.

Now looking at Quantum, you get a factor of 3.55. You have to multiply the Monday gross by 3.55 to get the Sunday gross.

Maybe Thanksgiving weekend has something to do with it. I don't know.

But the fact that Sony (and more importantly, the firms that the studios hire to track these numbers) *thought* they would make $3.5 million more over the weekend than thy did is cause for concern. It means that roughly Sony thought they would get 100 more customers than they did at each cinema where the film was playing on Sunday. That doesn't bode well. Traditionally, Tuesday is a bigger day than Monday. One should look for a 10% to 20% increase in the Tuesday BO numbers (CR upticked 17.4% first Tuesday). If there is no uptick, or even a loss, this will be bad news. Get over 15% and it is good.

Keep dancing...

Read the Bonita review of Qos: http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51624

[ACE]

I love QOS and want to see it well but Bonita has highlighted fascinating points.
There is a different between enlightening us with facts not to our liking and being negative. I don't Bonita is being anything other than illuminating.

QOS cost an estimated $180 million (this came from the LA Times not those inflated $200-230 mil budgets cited elsewhere). This is before P & A. The North American gross is key to the profitability of the film and its perceived success.

The only true figures at the end is the final gross but Bonita is sharing some interesting predictive insight.

Thanks Bonita

Keep dancing...

[Publius]

It will struggle to catch up with Die another Day's total of 160m.

You think it will struggle to have a multiplier of only 2.3? Even movies more critically panned than QoS (and lest you forget, it's getting mixed reviews leaning positive, and its getting much better reviews from ordinary moviegoers than from critics) have multipliers of over 3.0, and that includes TND, TWINE, and DAD. Hell, Spiderman 3 had a multiplier of 2.2, and that was with worse reviews than QoS is getting AND the biggest opening weekend to date (which TDK barely surpassed).

This is a discussion forum. Sorry you cannot tolerate an alternative view to yours based on the US box office figures.

People don't have a problem with that, they have a problem with you speaking for them and an entire nation based on a very narrow (and clearly biased) analysis. Yes, there is cause for concern in some of the numbers, but that was also the case for CR. If you continue to splice day-by-day numbers looking for bad news, you're going to find it. Take a step back, my friend.

Here's the scoop on Monday's numbers:

CR was down 64.1% on its first Monday

QoS is down 71.9% - this is roughly 7% drop in comparison.

It's falling from far greater heights. That's like saying CR was better received than TDK because the former had a 23% greater multiplier, indicating stronger WOM and longer legs. And, as Mike00spy points out...

You are bound to be correct as CR's week overlapped the Thanksgiving Holiday whereas Qos does not.

Thank you.

But the fact that Sony (and more importantly, the firms that the studios hire to track these numbers) *thought* they would make $3.5 million more over the weekend than thy did is cause for concern.

But they were expecting $50-60 million going into the weekend. They beat even their most optimistic projections by 13%.

I love QOS and want to see it well but Bonita has highlighted fascinating points.
There is a different between enlightening us with facts not to our liking and being negative. I don't Bonita is being anything other than illuminating.

Agreed.

[blueman]

Check out the CBn pole: 75% of almost 300 Bond fans rate it at least 7/10. Surprised at the non-polarization, and that the truly negative opinions are a very small (but vocal ) minority.

Surely Bond fans giving QOS a thumbs up counts for some good WOM?

[Bonita]

But the fact that Sony (and more importantly, the firms that the studios hire to track these numbers) *thought* they would make $3.5 million more over the weekend than thy did is cause for concern.

But they were expecting $50-60 million going into the weekend. They beat even their most optimistic projections by 13%.



The issue with the studio projections is that they are not based on real numbers, and studios may play up or play down expectations based on various factors. Usually, studios do not want to say they think they will make $70 million on opening weekend when they very well could make $65 mil. They like to exceed expectations.

My fear is that the word of mouth is not solid. Almost every general movie fans I talk to here in the US says they didn't enjoy this film as much as Casino. I really love both films. I respect the change in style. Anyone wants to know my feelings, check out my review (link at bottom). But I think many people don't feel this film emotionally involves them the way Casino Royale did.

My HOPE is that the film will linger with them and they will view it a second time. I know a few who have seen it again, and they have generally liked it better and been more emotionally involved...and that the crowds will stay strong.

While it makes no difference to me how much money Sony and Eon make off this film, I found this film tremendously intriguing. But it is a film with which, I think, some segment of the audience does not engage. And as many have noticed, it is a film that needs to be watched carefully or you miss things. There are things I have missed after three viewings. It looks like M gets shot at one point, but clearly she hasn't been. Exactly what does Bond do that flips over the last boat during the chase? These things do not bother my appreciation for the more complex emotional journey. All Bond films have something that is confusing of illogical. But I think - from my unscientific survey of friends - that the film may not be connecting to others the way I connect to it (many fans of OHMSS and LTK will understand this feeling).

Keep dancing...

Read the Bonita review of QoS: http://debrief.comma...showtopic=51624

[blueman]

It is true that art house films tend to draw smaller audiences, I guess it wouldn't be too surprising for art house Bond to suffer as a result (although the "arty" TDK wasn't hurt much at the BO, lol).

[Publius]

Almost every general movie fans I talk to here in the US says they didn't enjoy this film as much as Casino.

Same here, but they also all liked QoS. CR had unusually great WOM, so QoS will probably fail by comparison even if it has simply good WOM.

[mario007]

I think Mickey and Babs took one too many gambles with QOS. They should have continued building the momentum and goodwill genrated by CR with entertaining action sequences instead of aping the passing fad of blurry action scenes of the bore (I mean borne movies)! I went to a second screening and the action scenes were not as bad ... but the general public is not going to bother ... coupled with the fact that most of the story is layered and goes over almost everybody's head does not help ... as a result this movie might not reach $200 million in the US (I have my fingers cross firmly for it to pass this mark).

I enjoyed the film immensely ... but did not enjoy the action scenes as much. The actions scenes are one gamble that they should have not taken ... general audiances come to bond movies to be owed and blown away by the action ... if you can't see or understand what is going on ... you feel unsatisfied no matter how good the other scenes, acting and story are! Campbell is an average director who has a great sense for capturing great action! Mickey and Babs should have put their foot down when it came to the actions scenes and asked for a re-edit! Now we will have to wait for bond 23 to get back on track! Mickey said in an interview they would not hire Tarantino because his style is too bloody, etc ... then they go and let Marc Forrester have his way with the action secens? ... a thing that is a key selling point in bond films? I wonder how it would have turned out of Roger Mitchell stayed on!

Edited by mario007, 19 November 2008 - 02:52 AM.

[blueman]

I think Mickey and Babs took one too many gambles with QOS. They should have continued building the momentum and goodwill genrated by CR with entertaining action sequences instead of aping the passing fad of blurry action scenes of the bore (I mean borne movies)! I went to a second screening and the action scenes were not as bad ... but the general public is not going to bother ... coupled with the fact that most of the story is layered and goes over almost everybody's head does not help ... as a result this movie might not reach $200 million in the US (I have my fingers cross firmly for it to pass this mark).

I enjoyed the film immensely ... but did not enjoy the action scenes as much. The actions scenes are one gamble that they should have not taken ... general audiances come to bond movies to be owed and blown away by the action ... if you can't see or understand what is going on ... you feel unsatisfied no matter how good the other scenes, acting and story are! Campbell is an average director who has a great sense for capturing great action! Mickey and Babs should have put their foot down when it came to the actions scenes and asked for a re-edit! Now we will have to wait for bond 23 to get back on track! Mickey said in an interview they would not hire Tarantino because his style is too bloody, etc ... then they go and let Marc Forrester have his way with the action secens? ... a thing that is a key selling point in bond films? I wonder how it would have turned out of Roger Mitchell stayed on!

I thought QOS had the best action in the series, or at least since OHMSS (and much better than some of the meandering sequences in CR).

[quantumofsolace]

I like the action in this film more each time i see it(3 times now) but i do think it was a mistake commercially to make you have to watch the film multiple times to follow the action. Same problem with the story.
But Forster isn't coming back , so it shouldn't be a problem next time. Not that either were a problem for me as I would like something similar again.
I can understand why this film isn't going down well with audiences, but i'm far from happy about this reaction.

[SecretAgentFan]

The funniest thing about this thread is that so many people claim to know what the general word-of-mouth is after speaking with one or two friends.

[quantumofsolace]

The funniest thing about this thread is that so many people claim to know what the general word-of-mouth is after speaking with one or two friends.

No. You just need to go through the general film sites and other general forums to see that it isn't going down great. Yes , there are some positive comments but most are dissapointed.

[blueman]

The pole on this site has 75% of nearly 300 Bond fans rating QOS at least a 7/10, and the very negative votes are a tiny minority. WOM is good, no way around it IMO - it's that the negative voices are yelling a lot, makes them seem more than they are.

[SecretAgentFan]

The funniest thing about this thread is that so many people claim to know what the general word-of-mouth is after speaking with one or two friends.

No. You just need to go through the general film sites and other general forums to see that it isn't going down great. Yes , there are some positive comments but most are dissapointed.

Oh, yes, the people writing on film sites and forums form such a huge representative number that I shudder with respect. C´mon, mate, us posters are a tiny, tiny, miniscule fraction of the world wide audience. So are the critics. Which don´t even factor because they do not pay for their tickets.

[Safari Suit]

The funniest thing about this thread is that so many people claim to know what the general word-of-mouth is after speaking with one or two friends.

This is true, but at the same time the only way people can really gauge public opinion on films is from their own interactions, which are possibly quite unrepresentative of the wider public, or from online feedback, most of which I would say is very unrepresentative, given that a lot of it will be written by people who are either bigger Bond fans or bigger film fans than most of the general public.

And to be fair, it does happen the other way as well. "I know Craig is more culturally relevant than any Bond since Connery because a girl asked me to go see it with her! A girl I tell you!" etc.

[madler007]

People, $67 million is huge for opening weekend. No question, it is huge. It was interesting that Sony & Eon on Monday morning right off said it blew away Bourne 3 opening weekend. Ironicly it At First looked like it beat it & it was by $500K, not what I call "Blowing it Away". So Karma came & bit EON & Sony in the . They looked very foolish & Universal & Bourne producers had a great laugh & triumph. But as good as Bourne was, 2 & 3 were almost same movie. Bourne can & want to compare itself to the BOND ( the Best), so be it. I personally do not like EON going out & making 007 to compare to Bourne, as they do. Cubby said" do not screw it up". I feel that Eon just can not get it right. Everyone has high expectations. Since Connery most films have been okay but most sucked. Half of every Brosnan one's were good & sadly also bad. CR almost got it right. A little shorter movie with a touch more action & bingo, Perfect. QoS is very good, with a few major flaws. If it was 15 minutes longer with more story, a little more sexiness, 007 traditional theme music,a little more charm out of DC, then a classic. EON hopefully will put it all together in 23. It is interesting that CR lost out at box office to Happy Feet, so EON moved QoS away from opening with Madagascar 2? My concern for longevity is that so many people were over 25 years old & EON is so desperate for the 10 to 20 year old crowd. Now it faces Bolt & Twilight this weekend. What will it do now that all adults went last weekend and kids & tweens will be spending elsewhere.

[Bonita]

Well, hate to be the bearer of of not the greatest news, but Tuesday's b.o. dropped from Monday. Just a 1.9% drop according to Boxofficemojo. This is not great news.

But, the film is still pulling in $4 million a day. If that holds through Thurs. that's $16 million. It would be great to do over $30 for the weekend and another $40 over Thanksgiving. That brings it to striking distance of Casino's gross.

Keep dancing...

[Loomis]

Bomb. Bummer.

[Mojo]

Haha..why is it that I think of body odour whenever I see b.o?

I don't know about you guys but I don't think it's important if QoS overtakes CR. QoS is already a success in terms of profit no?

[mario007]

Bomb. Bummer.

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Let's not give up hope yet!

[Loomis]

Bomb. Bummer.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Dunno. Time will tell.

[Bradley De La Cloche]

I'd hardly call it a bomb. If it was released alongside big summer blockbusters like The Dark Knight, Indy IV, Iron Man, Wall-E, Mamma Mia!, The Incredible Hulk and Hellboy 2, then we'd have had another LTK on our hands.

Edited by Bradley De La Cloche, 19 November 2008 - 10:07 PM.