202 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

The "fake" or not so fake IMDB reports did hint that Bond was killed in the end. And as I told here, QOS is constructed like CR in reverse, both thematically and scene by scene. When you see the movie, it's obvious, based on Foster comments in the news and the picture I posted, that Mr White shot him, then cut to black. It was as powerful as the ending of CR. I think by deleting this, they lost between 200/300 millions box office takings, because the movie will just, as it is already, be regarded as a glass half full, a regular, Bourne like actioner only it's named James Bond. They have stepped back from the boldest step they could have made, which would have sent not only the fandom, but the general public buzzing for at least 3 years until Bond 23. It's a bad, bad, bad move.
As it is, I don't wait for Bond 23 if it promises to be the same as Bond 22. With that ending, I would have been eagerly awaiting, like we would all have. And at least, some FLEMING would have been it.

Sorry, if I sound like you but... killing Bond off would not have been FLEMING at all. Go read the books before you name something FLEMING.

Also, what would be good about this? What would people "buzz about for at least 3 years until Bond 23"? Killing Bond off at the end would have been a major blunder. A surprise ending without any surprise because... in Bond 23, of course, this killing would have been exposed as a fake or as a not so fatal wounding. Big deal. Where is the twist in that? Totally boring.

Once again, I´m very happy that EON is in control of the franchise and that they don´t let fanboys control them.

[Jim]

Once again, I´m very happy that EON is in control of the franchise and that they don´t let fanboys control them.

Quite.

This sounds gimmicky and restrictive and fecund with more artistic problems than its absence creates. Being OMFG really kewl can't be a sensible business plan. They would have to plan Bond 23 totally cornered and hands tied because of it; just when they seemed to be experimenting with new stuff. In due course, they may well use it and it might be an arresting set up at the start or midway through a film.

What could be fun is that halfway through a film about completely different villains, Bond wanders into a room and Mr White shoots him. A villain from the past just randomly turning up in the middle of the next film, with no other connection to the plot at all.

[stamper]

I fail to see how my appreciation of Dark Knight should taint my views of QOS. I love all the sixties Bond, and loved CR with a vengeance, so should it give credence to all my reviews ? Hopefully not either !. Time will tell if DK was the masterpiece it got hailed being. But that is for another thread.

Once everybody have seen QOS, that's when the debate will become really interesting. In the meantime, I stand by my point that Bond's behavior in the movie is inexcusable as is, because it's not balanced by anything, and that ending would have balanced it just nicely.

Have people noticed in the picture, that Mr White wear the same costume as Bond at the end of CR ? That's funny...

[Zorin Industries]

Forgive my ignorance, but what was the scene that was removed? Have I missed anything other than it featured MR WHITE. My reading right now is that the mooted finale just revealed MR WHITE to be more integral than he let on. That's not quite on a par with BOND getting er "killed".

He's been shot in the knee and yet he's able to cross his legs!

VERY GOOD point. I'm sorry Stamper, but I don't believe a word you say. Nothing personal, i just don't buy why - firstly - the deleted segment (and one deleted moment lasting a minute as Marc Forster states does NOT constitute a missing scene) was deleted for a reason. And secondly, why would a deleted moment suddenly affect the box office when that is made up from people (the public) who don't give a toss about deleted scenes etc.

Has any Bond movie (in 40+ years), right after press screenings and just before the general public has a chance to take a look at it, become so controversial?

It's just people's impatience and fan paranoia. Online dating REALLY needs to be made more easier.

[SecretAgentFan]

Forgive my ignorance, but what was the scene that was removed? Have I missed anything other than it featured MR WHITE. My reading right now is that the mooted finale just revealed MR WHITE to be more integral than he let on. That's not quite on a par with BOND getting er "killed".

He's been shot in the knee and yet he's able to cross his legs!

VERY GOOD point. I'm sorry Stamper, but I don't believe a word you say. Nothing personal, i just don't buy why - firstly - the deleted segment (and one deleted moment lasting a minute as Marc Forster states does NOT constitute a missing scene) was deleted for a reason. And secondly, why would a deleted moment suddenly affect the box office when that is made up from people (the public) who don't give a toss about deleted scenes etc.

Has any Bond movie (in 40+ years), right after press screenings and just before the general public has a chance to take a look at it, become so controversial?

It's just people's impatience and fan paranoia. Online dating REALLY needs to be made more easier.

Somehow it was much easier to look forward to a new Bond film back in the days when there was no Internet.

[Royal Dalton]

He's been shot in the knee and yet he's able to cross his legs!

VERY GOOD point.

Not really. If he can bend his knee, he can cross his leg, as well.

Online dating REALLY needs to be made more easier.

I don't think Stamper's wife would approve of that...

[Captain Tightpants]

Once again, I´m very happy that EON is in control of the franchise and that they don´t let fanboys control them.

Quite.

This sounds gimmicky and restrictive and fecund with more artistic problems than its absence creates. Being OMFG really kewl can't be a sensible business plan. They would have to plan Bond 23 totally cornered and hands tied because of it; just when they seemed to be experimenting with new stuff. In due course, they may well use it and it might be an arresting set up at the start or midway through a film.

What could be fun is that halfway through a film about completely different villains, Bond wanders into a room and Mr White shoots him. A villain from the past just randomly turning up in the middle of the next film, with no other connection to the plot at all.

I think this brings up the whole case of people only seeing what they want to see. Forster flexed his directorial muscles and cut the scene from the film because he felt that it ended better this way. But somehow the fact that it was shot and ended onthe cutting room floor means it's a sign of poor editing and direction. I mean, the scene in Casino Royale where Bond was found by emergency services, brought into the hospital and then attempted to stab Mathis with a surgical instrument but fell out of bed while reaching for it was cut, too. I guess that means Martin Campbell is a poor director as well.

[Simon Beavis]

I like that Forster cut the scene instead of sticking it in there and forcing the producers to make a third film.

And also, I don't think there should be a director's cut of any DVD, because the theatrical cut should be the same as the director's cut.

The director's cut of The Lawnmower Man is VASTLY superior to the theatrical release. They really need to release a Region 1 DVD out of that.

I doubt will see a director's cut of any Bond film. TPTB like these films to be organic, so they are not going to cut out, or put in, anything that takes away from the organic nature. That's why there's no Moneypenny or Q in QOS.

[Diabolik]

Calm down, everyone! The Brocollis are not idiots. I'm sure they did numerous test screenings with the Mr. White ending and without it, and it did better without it.

Let's face it, with so much money on the line, Sony and Eon have to look beyond the fanbase. There's too much at stake.

And as it's been pointed out, since none of us (except Stamper) have seen the film, let's reserve judgement until we've seen it.

This all reminds me of so many of the Bond fans freaking out before CR came out. And it turned out great!

Take a deep breath and let's wait and see. We're almost there!

(I'm just glad we live in the DVD age where we can see deleted scenes and alternative endings for us fanboys (and girls). In the old pre-internet/dvd days, we would have never known about this ending, let alone get the chance to see it on the dvd release).

Edited by Diabolik, 22 October 2008 - 02:34 PM.

[bondrules]

I like that Forster cut the scene instead of sticking it in there and forcing the producers to make a third film.

And also, I don't think there should be a director's cut of any DVD, because the theatrical cut should be the same as the director's cut.

The director's cut of The Lawnmower Man is VASTLY superior to the theatrical release. They really need to release a Region 1 DVD out of that.

I doubt will see a director's cut of any Bond film. TPTB like these films to be organic, so they are not going to cut out, or put in, anything that takes away from the organic nature. That's why there's no Moneypenny or Q in QOS.

I agree that the possibilities of an uncut Bond film on DVD are slim. But, has there ever been a Bond film, that from what we know, been cut down to the point where so many reviewers imply that a huge chunk of dialogue might be missing from the theatrical release?
I would hope, really hope, that in this particular case, EON/Sony, can release an official version as well as an uncut-for-the-fans version....They might make a lotta dough on DVD sales...IMHO

[Marketto007]

This photo is from "QoS" or some other Jesper's movie?

xxx

[Invincible1958]

This photo is from "QoS" or some other Jesper's movie?

xxx

It's from QOS. It's from the press-material.

[Marketto007]

This photo is from "QoS" or some other Jesper's movie?

xxx

It's from QOS. It's from the press-material.

Really?

xxx

[ForMathis]

Really?

xxx

Yea, but the scene isn't in the film.

[sorking]

Worth pointing out, I guess, that 007 'dying' on screen doesn't even work as a cliffhanger. The audience will think he's definitely dead, will they? Doesn't seem likely...

The funniest bit would be the trailers – trying to show parts of the film without giving away the return of Bond. Then he pops up in the PTSA and we can all act totally surprised.

Might have worked in the 60s. But not even then, really. It works in print because you can't be sure of another novel to follow – there's no promotion and publicity regarding casting, nor any leaks from the set – but on the screen? not really.

Not sure how any reveal in the next film would be dramatically satisfying, either. He'll either be recovering from a 'near fatal' wound, or he'll be chatting to someone about how he faked his death as a clever ploy. Can anyone imagine the auditoriums not heaving with a resigned, bored sigh at that point?

(As an aside, though, didn't Jesper Christensen say somewhere that WHITE would be the one to die at the end of the film, until they cut the scene?)

[stamper]

This picture is from the press-book of the movie. It's presence clearly shows that the axe fell down on that scene very late in the process.

[dee-bee-five]

Worth pointing out, I guess, that 007 'dying' on screen doesn't even work as a cliffhanger. The audience will think he's definitely dead, will they? Doesn't seem likely...

Quite. It surprises me they even considered such nonsense, but I'm pleased they (wisely) ditched it.

[Trident]

This picture is from the press-book of the movie. It's presence clearly shows that the axe fell down on that scene very late in the process.

Please correct me if I'm wrong there, but doesn't nearly every press-book contain pictures that, for some reason or other, are cut from the final film? And doesn't this mainly stem form the usual practice to keep a pretty tight schedule on the editing and promotional process nowadays, both running often parallel to one another? I fail to see why this has any particular significance for the argument in question. Of course the cutting of the scene was decided on late in the process. That's when the cutting/editing is usually done, isn't it?

[Trident]

Worth pointing out, I guess, that 007 'dying' on screen doesn't even work as a cliffhanger. The audience will think he's definitely dead, will they? Doesn't seem likely...

Quite. It surprises me they even considered such nonsense, but I'm pleased they (wisely) ditched it.

Actually, I'm fairly open towards such a cliffhanger (if it ever really was intended the way we speculate here; and that's what it is: mere speculation). It would all depend on how it was done. Bond ending up on a stretcher at the end could be interesting. Of course they'd have to change the line at the end of the credits to 'WILL JAMES BOND RETURN?'.

[Simon Beavis]

(As an aside, though, didn't Jesper Christensen say somewhere that WHITE would be the one to die at the end of the film, until they cut the scene?)

I don't think he did. Gianinni made a comment like that, I think Mathieu might have made similar comments (not sure though, could be getting confused with that infamous AOL article), but I don't think Jesper did. He did say somewhere that the interrogation would go horribly wrong, and many people assumed that meant he would die there, until we found out about the opera sequence.

Those who have seen the film already have been pretty quiet about it (especially when compared to the fates of Greene, Camille, and Yusef), but it sounds like he doesn't die.

[dee-bee-five]

Worth pointing out, I guess, that 007 'dying' on screen doesn't even work as a cliffhanger. The audience will think he's definitely dead, will they? Doesn't seem likely...

Quite. It surprises me they even considered such nonsense, but I'm pleased they (wisely) ditched it.

Actually, I'm fairly open towards such a cliffhanger (if it ever really was intended the way we speculate here; and that's what it is: mere speculation). It would all depend on how it was done. Bond ending up on a stretcher at the end could be interesting. Of course they'd have to change the line at the end of the credits to 'WILL JAMES BOND RETURN?'.

Judging from the rather odd way some alleged "fans" are gleefully wallowing in any negative word written about QoS, it seems some on here would prefer "SHOULD JAMES BOND RETURN?"

[Royal Dalton]

The Bond being shot thing was just speculation. He might just get knocked out and kidnapped for all anybody knows.

[Marketto007]

The Bond being shot thing was just speculation. He might just get knocked out and kidnapped for all anybody knows.

Agreed.

xxx

[stamper]

Well, add up Foster interview, the picture, and the old reports about the ending rumoring a "missing in action" bit... I think it's pretty fair to deduct that they had a "James Bond apparently shot" ending. But we won't know until we see the DVD / BR bonuses.

In the meantime, what's certain is that the QOS ending is not as uplifting as the CR one. Not even close. (to tell you the truth, it's more inspired by the Bourne 2 ending, prior to him being in NY, and without the wounded bit).

[Donovan Mayne-Nicholls]

Eh Eh Eh told you guys ! And for those who don't get hot under the collar, here's a pic from the deleted ending.

I knew something was amiss ! Sony, or Eon went crazy and butchered the movie. Feel free at CBN to use my scan and make it news.

My impression is, this was the same scene as the beginning of CR, only Mr White shoots Bond. It would suddenly make sense of the whole movie.Because as I told you guys, QOS seems like a reverse deconstruction of CR. Editing is a delicate balance. If you take out one vital piece of the puzzle, the movie suddenly falls flat on it's face. Sadly, it's the case here. I can't wait for the real ending, because the current ending is a total let down. Shame on whomever deleted it from the final cut. Remember the guys on IMDB who said Bond died at the end ? Remember me saying Bond should die, FRWL novel style, in order for this movie to make 500 millions US ? That was it, and they DELETED it. I'm really pissed. I AM REALLY PISSED.

*prays to the gods of EON for a extended cut of Quantum of Solace to see the film as it was, quite possibly, intended.

I know they've never had one for a Bond movie before but, if Stamper is being truthful, and based on this very interesting news he is, I would like to watch this film in its full glory at some point.



I really wish they hadn't of cut this out, Mr.White just disappearing in the film is probably why some reviewers have called plot holes. That pic just wets my appetite for an amazing ending that would have had me begging for 23.

I wanted an extended cut of CR but I have the feeling Eon isn't into it. I have a feeling QOS will be disappointing mostly because of Forster's insistence in making it as short as possible, which will in essence mean missing plot points in favour of action sequences. I find interesting that he refers to the film as an action film, whereas Campbell didn't. It tells me something among the lines of this guy took the job because Sony asked him but wasn't that interested in it, has a very narrow perception of what Bonds are and can be (Bonds aren't merely "action" films) and I for one I'm glad he won't be coming back for 23. As for Sony, they strike me as interfering more with films than MGM. When they bought MGM, they postponed the release of Steve Martin's Pink Panther to retool the film for a family audience, reshoots included, as it was apparently too racy (which is the way Panthers should be shouldn't they?). Even after CR's outstanding performance, they couldn't leave the thing alone. They had to prove that Hollywood knows film and we're going to teach this pitiful British company Eon how things are done: follow up with a standard American action film.
One thing's for sure, regardless of whether I like the film or not, this time around I'm not buying the first dvd release. I'm waiting until the B23 tie-in.

[Invincible1958]

In the meantime, what's certain is that the QOS ending is not as uplifting as the CR one.

I like downbeat endings.

[NATO Sub]

In the meantime, what's certain is that the QOS ending is not as uplifting as the CR one.

I like downbeat endings.

Me too!

[Major Tallon]

Having Bond shot at the end of the film simply wouldn't work.

It would have been widely criticized as a desperate ploy that's not really suspenseful, since we'd know Bond survived the moment Bond 23 went into pre-production with Craig (unless, of course, we were supposed to accept Craig as the rebooted Bond's long-lost twin brother). No one would have been fooled, no one would have wondered if Bond survived, no one would have been lured into the theater on the chance that something new had been done.

As previously pointed out, Fleming could leave a cliffhanger or two because readers weren't sure he'd write any more Bond novels. EON can't credibly leave a cliffhanger and then proceed with plans to make a new movie. Those plans themselves give away the answer and betray the question as a trite tease.

Worst idea ever.

[ForMathis]

Just so we are clear all we know is that the ending featured Mr.White, whom disappears halfway though QoS.

The "Bond gets shot" is just peoples speculation, mostly stampers.

Edited by ForMathis, 22 October 2008 - 10:51 PM.

[Harmsway]

If Bond got shot, I still think it would be a fun ending. Sure, we'd all know he wasn't dead, but that doesn't keep it from being effective. The ending would still be shocking either way.