165 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

It could be interesting to see such an ending to a Craig Bond film. Maybe we could have a scene in which we see him calling upon his experience in the special forces in planning the assault on the villain's lair, and perhaps even calling on that experience to actually recruit the team that goes in with him. Going this direction would be a great way of bringing back this type of ending, which we haven't had since The Living Daylights while also giving a fresh take on the concept as well.

[The Shark]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

Why just a small force?

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

I'd prefer something like OHMSS or TB's respective climax's. Big, old-fashioned, epic, pulpy entertainment.

Also, what is the "theme" of Craig's era, and how does it differ to Connery's? I don't get this. Bond films are malleable as far as I'm concerned.

[tdalton]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

Why just a small force?

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

Not necessarily. I could see it being done in a fairly realistic matter if they were to set it up as Bond leading a small team of special forces soldiers into a lair to try to infiltrate it in a more stealth manner, rather than having a large force just flat-out storm the place with a lot of gunfire. I don't know much about whatever special forces unit the official biography on the CR site said that Craig's Bond was coming from, but I would imagine that at some point he had gained some training in that kind of infiltration. I think that it would actually be a bit more refreshing to see him leading a small team into the lair, sneaking through it, taking out guards along the way and having to find alternate routes to get to where the film's villain was actually located rather than having a large force assemble outside the compound and subsequently storm the complex in a hail of gunfire.

[The Shark]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

Why just a small force?

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

Not necessarily. I could see it being done in a fairly realistic matter if they were to set it up as Bond leading a small team of special forces soldiers into a lair to try to infiltrate it in a more stealth manner, rather than having a large force just flat-out storm the place with a lot of gunfire. I don't know much about whatever special forces unit the official biography on the CR site said that Craig's Bond was coming from, but I would imagine that at some point he had gained some training in that kind of infiltration. I think that it would actually be a bit more refreshing to see him leading a small team into the lair, sneaking through it, taking out guards along the way and having to find alternate routes to get to where the film's villain was actually located rather than having a large force assemble outside the compound and subsequently storm the complex in a hail of gunfire.

I see what you're saying, but that doesn't sound particularly Bondian to me. A bit too "dark, gritty and realistic" in the mould of most recent Hollywood action blockbusters, which has become incredibly tiresome to me.

Having a Splinter Cell-esque climax, would take a lot of the potential fun away from the situation, and I don't mean camp. I just mean something less dour.

[tdalton]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

Why just a small force?

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

Not necessarily. I could see it being done in a fairly realistic matter if they were to set it up as Bond leading a small team of special forces soldiers into a lair to try to infiltrate it in a more stealth manner, rather than having a large force just flat-out storm the place with a lot of gunfire. I don't know much about whatever special forces unit the official biography on the CR site said that Craig's Bond was coming from, but I would imagine that at some point he had gained some training in that kind of infiltration. I think that it would actually be a bit more refreshing to see him leading a small team into the lair, sneaking through it, taking out guards along the way and having to find alternate routes to get to where the film's villain was actually located rather than having a large force assemble outside the compound and subsequently storm the complex in a hail of gunfire.

I see what you're saying, but that doesn't sound particularly Bondian to me. A bit too "dark, gritty and realistic" in the mould of most recent Hollywood action blockbusters, which has become incredibly tiresome to me.

Having a Splinter Cell-esque climax, would take a lot of the potential fun away from the situation, and I don't mean camp. I just mean something less dour.

I think that's a fair way to look at it. I wouldn't have a problem with the more gritty and realistic direction of it (I'd actually prefer it that way), but I don't think it's entirely unfair to want to a little bit back towards the center between the realism of Quantum of Solace and some of the more traditional Bond elements.

I think that there could be some interesting directions to go with the smaller infiltration team. Maybe have such a scene earlier in the film, with Bond and the team finding that the villains had cleared out of the complex, but they end up finding something significant that ends up putting the entire plot of the film into motion. Something similar to how the SAW films are structured (and I hate bringing that franchise into this discussion, as Bond should be operating at a level of quality that is infinitely higher than SAW, but stick with me here on this one) in terms of them finding something and then having whatever it was that they found set the main plot of the film into motion. Could be an interesting way of handling the PTS, having such a scene end with a bit of a cliffhanger heading into the title sequence.

[The Shark]

- A climax with Bond leading a commando assault on a villains lair. Been too long since we've seen Bond in action like that.

I'm all for that, but in keeping with the theme of Craig's era, it'd probably be best to keep it a small force, say no more than a dozen men, half of whom would end up sacrificial lambs.

Why just a small force?

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

Not necessarily. I could see it being done in a fairly realistic matter if they were to set it up as Bond leading a small team of special forces soldiers into a lair to try to infiltrate it in a more stealth manner, rather than having a large force just flat-out storm the place with a lot of gunfire. I don't know much about whatever special forces unit the official biography on the CR site said that Craig's Bond was coming from, but I would imagine that at some point he had gained some training in that kind of infiltration. I think that it would actually be a bit more refreshing to see him leading a small team into the lair, sneaking through it, taking out guards along the way and having to find alternate routes to get to where the film's villain was actually located rather than having a large force assemble outside the compound and subsequently storm the complex in a hail of gunfire.

I see what you're saying, but that doesn't sound particularly Bondian to me. A bit too "dark, gritty and realistic" in the mould of most recent Hollywood action blockbusters, which has become incredibly tiresome to me.

Having a Splinter Cell-esque climax, would take a lot of the potential fun away from the situation, and I don't mean camp. I just mean something less dour.

I think that's a fair way to look at it. I wouldn't have a problem with the more gritty and realistic direction of it (I'd actually prefer it that way), but I don't think it's entirely unfair to want to a little bit back towards the center between the realism of Quantum of Solace and some of the more traditional Bond elements.

I think that there could be some interesting directions to go with the smaller infiltration team. Maybe have such a scene earlier in the film, with Bond and the team finding that the villains had cleared out of the complex, but they end up finding something significant that ends up putting the entire plot of the film into motion. Something similar to how the SAW films are structured (and I hate bringing that franchise into this discussion, as Bond should be operating at a level of quality that is infinitely higher than SAW, but stick with me here on this one) in terms of them finding something and then having whatever it was that they found set the main plot of the film into motion. Could be an interesting way of handling the PTS, having such a scene end with a bit of a cliffhanger heading into the title sequence.

Agreed, that would make a good PTS, and a viable way to re-introduce Craig's more refined post-QoS Bond, and also refer back ot his Navy/SBS days.

Though I still don't want to drop the idea of an all-out Bond and large Special Forces Unit vs Villain's henchmen in jumpsuits style finale.

That has long been missing IMO, and Austin Powers hasn't killed it, as long as they don't opt for the camp DAF approach.

Something more like Thunderball or OHMSS. In other words brutal commando tactics, flame throwers, windpipes being cut, grenades etc...

Would be a good way to combine the grittiness of Craig's Bond, with the more fantastical Connery/Lazenby approach.

[Publius]

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

If the villain is also realistic, then the scale of his "lair" will not call for a large force. Like tdalton said, more spy-like an approach.

And I for one always found the "hundreds of random guys battle each other" climaxes to be extremely boring. I was more interested in what Bond, his allies, the villain, and the villain's henchmen were up to. Cutting away a few times to show there's an ongoing massive battle is fine, but paying any attention to it loses me as much as random explosions do.

Also, what is the "theme" of Craig's era, and how does it differ to Connery's? I don't get this. Bond films are malleable as far as I'm concerned.

You said it yourself, darker and more realistic (and more focused on Bond the human being).

Having a Splinter Cell-esque climax, would take a lot of the potential fun away from the situation, and I don't mean camp. I just mean something less dour.

Remember how in TSWLM Bond and the captured submarine crews fought and worked their way into the control room of Stromberg's super-sub? That was a surprisingly small, intimate scale for the film, especially when you look back in light of its reputation. They scrapped and clawed and used their brains to save the day. That's how I'd like the powers that be to approach this idea in one of Craig's films.

[tdalton]

And I for one always found the "hundreds of random guys battle each other" climaxes to be extremely boring. I was more interested in what Bond, his allies, the villain, and the villain's henchmen were up to. Cutting away a few times to show there's an ongoing massive battle is fine, but paying any attention to it loses me as much as random explosions do.

I find them pretty boring for the most part as well, but I think that those types of scenes have some value for the franchise as well. Nothing wrong with having them once in a while, but I'd like to see them go for something more along the lines of the smaller infiltration team rather than them having what basically amounts to an army gather together outside of the villain's lair. I can't see it jiving too well with the general tone of the Craig films thus far, and I don't think I'd want to see a Craig film that moves in that direction tonally either.

Still, nothing against these scenes, but I don't necessarily want to see one in Bond 23 either.

[JimmyBond]

Well how about that, I agree with Shark again Looks like we're two for two today (incidentally, the other point I agree with you on is getting a new composer).

I see nothing wrong with Craig's Bond leading a large group of men into the villian's lair. Heck if they had gone that route, it certainly could have worked in QoS (with some clever rewriting, but I bet it could have worked).

[tdalton]

Well how about that, I agree with Shark again Looks like we're two for two today (incidentally, the other point I agree with you on is getting a new composer).

I see nothing wrong with Craig's Bond leading a large group of men into the villian's lair. Heck if they had gone that route, it certainly could have worked in QoS (with some clever rewriting, but I bet it could have worked).

I think that it would have taken quite a bit of rewriting to get that to work for Quantum of Solace. I thought that, with the theme of the film being about Bond finding his "quantum of solace", as well as Camille finding hers, that having them lead a large force to storm the hotel at the end would have defeated the purpose of that character arc. I think that it worked quite well having the two of them sneak into the hotel, each going after their respective target, and ultimately getting their closure in a more personal way than what would have been allowed by a large force storming the hotel to take out what amounted to two targets. I'm also not sure that having such a force storm the building would have allowed for the great scene where Bond takes Greene even further out into the desert and leaves him to die. Even if it was retained, it probably would have been preceded by some rather insignificant dialogue that would have lessened the impact of it. As that scene currently stands, his demanding of Camille to "wait here" (or whatever it was that he said to her, but that was the jist of it) before taking off into the vast emptiness of the desert is fantastic, and one of my favorite scenes in the entire franchise.

[volante]

I would like to see something relevent, and current; such as A bitter Kremlin power struggle endangering Europe's oil and gas supplies.

The man at the center of the struggle would turn to MI6 for protection; after an attempt on his life. The twist and element of mistrust would be that this man was a former KGB spy master.
Unlike TWINE, the subject would go into hiding; resulting in
M sending her best agent to eliminate the killer hell bent on fulfilling his contract,and killing the subject.

Bond would know that failure in finding and protecting the subject would lengthen the shadow of war across the globe.

Old friends; new enemies and a sadistic killer (on the trail of the subject) would make this mission the toughest yet for 007

In the Bond girl, James Bond discovers a resolve to trust and lie for, .
In the contract killer, Bond would follow a trail of death and destruction, which would have an efect on all concerned. Bond would use this as a just cause to kill or die for.

[JimmyBond]

Oh you'll get no disagreements from me there tdalton. The finale plays out beautifully, but if I were put to task to rewrite it so that a large group was involved in the fighting. I'd have Green have a much bigger police force at the hotel, and Bond and Camille would have rounded up a group of people who were against the idea of a new regime taking over their country.

You could still keep all the emotional beats the same. Camille could still go after Medrano, and Bond would still be going after Greene.

[tdalton]

Oh you'll get no disagreements from me there tdalton. The finale plays out beautifully, but if I were put to task to rewrite it so that a large group was involved in the fighting. I'd have Green have a much bigger police force at the hotel, and Bond and Camille would have rounded up a group of people who were against the idea of a new regime taking over their country.

You could still keep all the emotional beats the same. Camille could still go after Medrano, and Bond would still be going after Greene.

Actually, I could see a scenario in which it would work. I think that they could have somehow incorporated Bond's walk through that tiny little town in the desert that was desperate for water and somehow turned that into a recruiting ground for the effort (whether it was rewritten to happen on Bond's pass through on the way to the bus or if he were to return later to recruit a force). It could have been a way for Bond to show a bit of compassion in that scene, as the way it currently stands has Bond at perhaps his coldest, as it's not evident if he even bothered to tell the people there where they could find water.

[JimmyBond]

To be fair it is mentioned at the end that Bond feels Camille should help lead the effort to destroy the dams and return water to the villages.

[Publius]

I just feel like what you guys are suggesting would amount to nothing more than extra bodies on both sides. It certainly wouldn't heighten the tension for me - if anything, it would probably suck a lot of the excitement and cool factor out of it.

Although the infiltration of Greene's base wasn't an example of Bond "spying" per se, it was an example of him being a secret agent and precision instrument. It's not just about him being quiet or sneaky, but about being unexpected, methodical, and surgical in his approach to taking out enemies. That was on full display in QOS, which is what makes it one of my favorite such finales in Bond film history.

[tdalton]

I just feel like what you guys are suggesting would amount to nothing more than extra bodies on both sides. It certainly wouldn't heighten the tension for me - if anything, it would probably suck a lot of the excitement and cool factor out of it.

Although the infiltration of Greene's base wasn't an example of Bond "spying" per se, it was an example of him being a secret agent and precision instrument. It's not just about him being quiet or sneaky, but about being unexpected, methodical, and surgical in his approach to taking out enemies. That was on full display in QOS, which is what makes it one of my favorite such finales in Bond film history.

Agreed. The suggestion of having Bond recruit a force to go into the hotel at the end of Quantum of Solace certainly isn't my preference for how the film should have played out (it works perfectly as it's done in the film), but more just a suggestion of how such a scene could have been written into the film and having those changes still fit in with the general theme of the film.

Still, though, I much prefer the ending that Forster delivered in Quantum of Solace. As you said, it's one of the best in the franchise.

[Red Barchetta]

One thing I'd like to see is the Q character going back to the Armourer- the Major.

Q has been reduced to just giving Bond gadgets, and just doesn't work for the series anymore. Q needs to get back to his roots.

The Armourer should be responsible for the 00 Section weapons, and weapons training. He happens to work for Q Branch (maybe on loan from SAS?).

And, Hugh Laurie would be outstanding as The Armourer- Major Boothroyd. And yes, make him a Scot- if Hugh can do an American accent, he can do a Scottish one!

[Quantumofsolace007]

a fleming title, an american location, and a bit more suspense and mystery.

[Single-O-Seven]

a fleming title, an american location, and a bit more suspense and mystery.

I agree with much of what you say. I'd love to see a Bond film with only two or three action sequences, with the rest of the story threaded out with tension, suspense and, yes, a deep mystery. In other words, Bond acting like a spy in a Hitchcockian sorta film with interesting characters who speak more for the film than the action does.

[Guy Haines]

One thing I'd like to see is the Q character going back to the Armourer- the Major.

Q has been reduced to just giving Bond gadgets, and just doesn't work for the series anymore. Q needs to get back to his roots.

The Armourer should be responsible for the 00 Section weapons, and weapons training. He happens to work for Q Branch (maybe on loan from SAS?).

And, Hugh Laurie would be outstanding as The Armourer- Major Boothroyd. And yes, make him a Scot- if Hugh can do an American accent, he can do a Scottish one!

I agree with you. I've already added to this forum that "Q" as Bond's grumpy but lovable uncle figure wouldn't work with this Bond (nor would those daft background scenes of gadgets going wrong in the laboratory while "Q" explains his latest invention to 007)

I like the idea of Hugh Laurie as "Q" - if Robbie Coltrane could go from "The Comic Strip" via "Cracker" to Valentin Zukovsky, then Laurie could easily manage being "Q". Just provided they steer him away from the upper class twit characteristics he showed in, say, "Blackadder". So, yes, make him a Scot.

(another actor as medic I can envisage as "Q" is Martin Clunes. He plays a doctor in the UK TV series "Doc Martin" who is abrupt to the point of being downright rude at times. I can imagine him uttering the line "I never joke about my work, 007")

[The Shark]

Surely it would be more realistic for Craig's Bond to be able to tackle a villain's lair, with a larger force, than by himself or a small group of men.

If the villain is also realistic, then the scale of his "lair" will not call for a large force. Like tdalton said, more spy-like an approach.

I don't want the villain/s to be realistic. Fleming's rarely were, and neither were the 60s villains, why should they be now?

Yes, I want too relatively large opposing forces. No CGI.

And I for one always found the "hundreds of random guys battle each other" climaxes to be extremely boring. I was more interested in what Bond, his allies, the villain, and the villain's henchmen were up to. Cutting away a few times to show there's an ongoing massive battle is fine, but paying any attention to it loses me as much as random explosions do.

I never thought that, if anything the exact opposite. The climax to TB and OHMSS are two of my favourite action sequences from the history of Bond, and are amazing pieces of larger than life, but brutal spectacle.

Also, what is the "theme" of Craig's era, and how does it differ to Connery's? I don't get this. Bond films are malleable as far as I'm concerned.

You said it yourself, darker and more realistic (and more focused on Bond the human being).

To be frank, TB's epic underwater battle at the end, is more realistic in my opinion than Bond fighting to the death in an embarrassing CGI sinking house, or fighting Medrano's private army and fighting Greene in QoS.

Having a Splinter Cell-esque climax, would take a lot of the potential fun away from the situation, and I don't mean camp. I just mean something less dour.

Remember how in TSWLM Bond and the captured submarine crews fought and worked their way into the control room of Stromberg's super-sub? That was a surprisingly small, intimate scale for the film, especially when you look back in light of its reputation. They scrapped and clawed and used their brains to save the day. That's how I'd like the powers that be to approach this idea in one of Craig's films.

Remember when the the US marines in Thunderball brutally fought they through the SPECTRE contingent, cutting throats, breathing tubes, skewering arms with harpoons, while Largo's frogmen fought back comparable strength?

That's how I'd like power that be to approach the following climaxes to Craig's films. You drop the fantastical, larger than life element in that kind of scenario, and it becomes terribly dour and boring.

I'm frankly sick of these preposterously video-gamey "Bond fights villain, while Bond girl fights secondary villain" showdowns we've been having recently. Bring back the Special Forces I say, large scale combat is the way to go.

Although the infiltration of Greene's base wasn't an example of Bond "spying" per se, it was an example of him being a secret agent and precision instrument. It's not just about him being quiet or sneaky, but about being unexpected, methodical, and surgical in his approach to taking out enemies. That was on full display in QOS, which is what makes it one of my favorite such finales in Bond film history.

It's personally one of my least favourite finales in Bondian lore, down in the Stygian depths with the Brosnan climaxes. There was hardly anything methodical about it, with Bond just going running around, scoring points, gunning down guards. Any calcution or surgical precision in it, was lost in the shoddy, fractured editing, to the point of incomprehension.

It felt practically antithetical to Fleming. Yes his Bond was a cold, blunt instrument, BUT not a Duracell-powered sonic the hedgehog figure, with pin-point precise accuracy along with boundless speed and stamina. Fleming's Bond was far more human, and flawed figure, with physical limits.

I just feel like what you guys are suggesting would amount to nothing more than extra bodies on both sides. It certainly wouldn't heighten the tension for me - if anything, it would probably suck a lot of the excitement and cool factor out of it.

How cooler can you get than the classic finales to TB, OHMSS and TLD?

[JimmyBond]

How cooler can you get than the classic finales to TB, OHMSS and TLD?

[RazorBlade]

a fleming title, an american location, and a bit more suspense and mystery.

I agree with much of what you say. I'd love to see a Bond film with only two or three action sequences, with the rest of the story threaded out with tension, suspense and, yes, a deep mystery. In other words, Bond acting like a spy in a Hitchcockian sorta film with interesting characters who speak more for the film than the action does.

I'm curious about a Hitchcockian bond myself. Hmmmm. Also, as long as we're dreaming, my name under "written by". As long as we're dreaming.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

An action scene involving a train!

Had a dream about one last night and it was really good. Similar to the one in Octopussy.

[DaveBond21]

An action scene involving a train!

Had a dream about one last night and it was really good. Similar to the one in Octopussy.

Oh yes, nice idea. It has been a while. Train action scenes are always good, and I'm a fan of the ones from FRWL, LALD, TSWLM, Octopussy and Goldeneye.

[DamnCoffee]

I would be all for a train based action sequence. I came up with a similar idea some time ago. Something in the pouring rain would be cool, similar to the Casino Royale level on the Quantum of Solace game.

[TheREAL008]

Flesh out the Quantum organization.

Meaning, give us some memorable villains that we'll remember for another forty years while also keeping the mysterious element about Quantum going on.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

THE GUNBARREL AT THE BEGINNING, decent main titles and a good director is good enough for me

[volante]

THE GUNBARREL AT THE BEGINNING, decent main titles and a good director is good enough for me

Right on Nicolas; I would only add the Bond theme, at the optimum moments

[ChrissBond007]

THE GUNBARREL AT THE BEGINNING, decent main titles and a good director is good enough for me

That's something to start with. A thing Qautnum of Solace lacked (altrough I thought the main titles were done pretty well).

What I also hope is that we're going to see some more humour from Bond in it this time. Not making it over the top like in DAD sometimes was the case, but just a bit more like in the Roger Moore days.

Oh yes, and don't forget Miss Moneypenny and Q. I really hope these characters can return to the series.