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Indiana Jones Thread


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#1381 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:11 PM

OK now that I've seen the movie and reviewed it I'd like to offer ideas on how it could have been better:

The Aliens: are not supernaturally endowed but just thousands of years more advanced than us caveman.The 'technology' the russians/usa wants is purely physical science such as flight, weaponry...etc. The mind control thing was kinda lame. Making the skulls/skelotons have some after life power doesn't work and makes them less plausable. I wanted the alien storyline to not impose such a high level of suspension of disbelief.

Too many side kicks: Indy should have one other principal in the room so he can show off his authority to the audience by ordering someone not to "touch that" or "stand there", "stay outta the light"...etc. Not 4 other people(!).

John Hurt: couldn't he have played Avner? maybe he didn't die but was kidknapped or went voluntarily with the 'grays' and returned after 40 years without aging a day. That would be interesting!

Marion/Mutt: totally unneccessary introduction/reunion which added nothing cool to the story.Bonding with your child during the movie's piece de resistance set piece? :tup:

Make Indy single and somewhat sad like Rocky and have him meet up with an archeologist love interest, a native peruvian in her 40s/50s. Give the ol bastid one last great adventure and romance.

No need to kill off Spalko or at least not by the aliens.Turning the aliens into the boogieman was ilogical.I LOVED the saucer shot but all the CGI mayhem that preceeded it was OTT.

#1382 Johnboy007

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

*weaps tears of joy* OH MY GOD!!! The movie was INCREDIBLE!! :( My grade for Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull: A (all the way!!) :tup:

I enjoyed it SO much that it has overtaken Last Crusade as my second favorite Indy film.. Last Crusade pales compared with Crystal Skull. No doubt about it, Harrison Ford still has it at 65 and I am glad that they didn't try and make him the same Indiana Jones age in the last three films.. It was wise to make him older and perhaps a wee bit slower than his younger years...after all this new film takes place 19 years after Last Crusade. I'm definitely going to catch this again next week! I am certainly scratching my head at all the negative naysayers about this movie.. For God's sake if you go into this movie expecting it to pick up exactly in the style of the last three films, then i can see how you might tend to be disappointed. But this is 2008..not 1981, 1984 or 1989..Of course Indy 4 is going to be different.. :tup: And how anyone could say this does not have the Indy feel to it is beyond me.. I felt the good ol' Indy charm come flowing back the minute Indy appears on the screen.

Loved Shia LeBouf as Mutt and the whole 50's setting was just great.. It was also very nice to have Karen Allen back as Marion and there were some touching tributes to the late Denholm Elliot and Sean Connery's characters.. but I won't spoil them for those who have yet to see the film.

Bravo Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Lucas.. Indy 5? Yes.. I would love to see it!!


I told you you'd like it!

#1383 Royal Dalton

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:16 PM

Lucas should golf with George W Bush when he's retired. They can exchange hatred stories.

Bush was actually an uncredited adviser on the film.

He was the one who told Ford how to pronounce the word "nucular".

#1384 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:17 PM

*weaps tears of joy* OH MY GOD!!! The movie was INCREDIBLE!! :) My grade for Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull: A (all the way!!) :tup:

I enjoyed it SO much that it has overtaken Last Crusade as my second favorite Indy film.. Last Crusade pales compared with Crystal Skull. No doubt about it, Harrison Ford still has it at 65 and I am glad that they didn't try and make him the same Indiana Jones age in the last three films.. It was wise to make him older and perhaps a wee bit slower than his younger years...after all this new film takes place 19 years after Last Crusade. I'm definitely going to catch this again next week! I am certainly scratching my head at all the negative naysayers about this movie.. For God's sake if you go into this movie expecting it to pick up exactly in the style of the last three films, then i can see how you might tend to be disappointed. But this is 2008..not 1981, 1984 or 1989..Of course Indy 4 is going to be different.. :tup: And how anyone could say this does not have the Indy feel to it is beyond me.. I felt the good ol' Indy charm come flowing back the minute Indy appears on the screen.

Loved Shia LeBouf as Mutt and the whole 50's setting was just great.. It was also very nice to have Karen Allen back as Marion and there were some touching tributes to the late Denholm Elliot and Sean Connery's characters.. but I won't spoil them for those who have yet to see the film.

Bravo Mr. Spielberg and Mr. Lucas.. Indy 5? Yes.. I would love to see it!!


You like TLC more than Raiders? :D

Eh, that's right...you're a Broncos fan! :(

#1385 marktmurphy

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:22 PM

No need to kill off Spalko or at least not by the aliens.Turning the aliens into the boogieman was ilogical.I LOVED the saucer shot but all the CGI mayhem that preceeded it was OTT.


Pretty standard to have the bad guy killed by the thing they're seeking, isn't it? Bit of a shame that the sfx guys didn't go to town on the traditional face-melting, though.

I loved the nod to The Last Crusade in which Mutt laughed after doing something clever on the Bike and Indy just gave him the same pityfull look as his father gave him on the bike chase in The Last Crusade. :tup:



Don't forget that Indy says
Posted Image
"This is intolerable!"

at one point too! :tup:

#1386 The Dove

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:22 PM

Uh I meant to say that Last Crusade was my second fav (its now been overtaken by Crystal Skull as my new second favorite)..Raiders is my most favorite. And I haven't forgotten my Broncos owe your Chargers a good smackdown this coming season, Tarl! :tup:

#1387 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:43 PM

No need to kill off Spalko or at least not by the aliens.Turning the aliens into the boogieman was ilogical.I LOVED the saucer shot but all the CGI mayhem that preceeded it was OTT.


Pretty standard to have the bad guy killed by the thing they're seeking, isn't it? Bit of a shame that the sfx guys didn't go to town on the traditional face-melting, though.

I loved the nod to The Last Crusade in which Mutt laughed after doing something clever on the Bike and Indy just gave him the same pityfull look as his father gave him on the bike chase in The Last Crusade. :tup:



Don't forget that Indy says
Posted Image
"This is intolerable!"

at one point too! :(


Yeah but why do they kill her?

41-3 twice last year Dove? :tup:

#1388 DamnCoffee

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:45 PM

No need to kill off Spalko or at least not by the aliens.Turning the aliens into the boogieman was ilogical.I LOVED the saucer shot but all the CGI mayhem that preceeded it was OTT.


Pretty standard to have the bad guy killed by the thing they're seeking, isn't it? Bit of a shame that the sfx guys didn't go to town on the traditional face-melting, though.

I loved the nod to The Last Crusade in which Mutt laughed after doing something clever on the Bike and Indy just gave him the same pityfull look as his father gave him on the bike chase in The Last Crusade. :tup:



Don't forget that Indy says
Posted Image
"This is intolerable!"

at one point too! :tup:


Really, I thought it was "This Is Incredible!"

#1389 Harmsway

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:40 PM

The mind control thing was kinda lame. Making the skulls/skelotons have some after life power doesn't work and makes them less plausable.

I don't see how. Interdimensional beings capable of great things would naturally have very different attributes and abilities than our own.

John Hurt: couldn't he have played Avner?

Well, thankfully he didn't. It's best for Marion's character if Abner's dead, as she claimed in ROTLA, and then you don't have to create some crappy backstory to explain how he didn't die in Nepal. I would have been irate had Abner appeared in this film, given the utter pointlessness of bringing him back.

Make Indy single and somewhat sad like Rocky and have him meet up with an archeologist love interest, a native peruvian in her 40s/50s. Give the ol bastid one last great adventure and romance.

There's only one girl for Indiana Jones, and that's Marion. I don't think Karen Allen did that well in the film, mind you, but if you're going to send Indy off with a girl on his arm, that's the one to pick.

No need to kill off Spalko or at least not by the aliens. Turning the aliens into the boogieman was ilogical.

It made sense to me. It certainly didn't contradict anything else we knew about them. In fact, I would have liked it if the aliens were even more malevolent. Terrifying Lovecraftian beings from another dimension.

#1390 dinovelvet

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:58 PM

I've just got back from seeing it. I'm sorry to say it, but this film is an absolute abomination.

Spielberg and Lucas (particularly Lucas, since he was hellbent on pushing forward with the sci-fi idea, which doesn't work at all) should hang their heads in shame.

Goodbye, Indy.

:tup: :tup: :(


What else about it made it an abomination for you, Royal? Do you like all the other Indy movies btw?

#1391 Kilroy6644

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 10:36 PM

The other thing I liked was all the guns. It's always fun to watch a movie and point at a gun and say: "I have one of those." :tup:

#1392 Colossus

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 10:38 PM

I've just realised that Skull has made its way into IMDB's Top 250, ranking at #175.


It is now gone from the top 250, LOL. Just one day on there and dissapeared with light speed.

Anyway here's my ranking of the Indy films...

Temple of Doom
Raiders
Last Crusade
Kingdom of the Looney Tunes Skull

#1393 Qwerty

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 10:48 PM

A good film that makes for an enjoyable two hours at the theatre. The bar is set merely for some fun and it accomplishes that.

A great/comparable-to-Raiders film? No.

#1394 sark

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 11:20 PM

It seems people are picking this film apart way too much. It's not a Bourne movie. It's Indiana Jones. The whole concept of the series was based on 40's serials. It's not supposed to be super-realistic, or deeply analyzed.

I would say that this new film isn't as good as the original three. However, unlike some people, I don't have hangups about any of the previous ones. Yes, I will admit that Temple of Doom and Last Crusade aren't as good as Raiders, but they are still extremely enjoyable movie experiances to me. I would rather watch any of the Indy movies than most of the drivel churned out by Hollywood.

#1395 Dell Deaton

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 11:23 PM

Interesting Thread, particularly given our demographic.

Just goes to show why we'll never all agree on "the best" actor to play James Bond, nor why.

And that's fine by me. :tup:

Love the passion here, regardless of what position each person takes. Thanks.

#1396 Matt_13

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 01:10 AM

It seems people are picking this film apart way too much. It's not a Bourne movie. It's Indiana Jones. The whole concept of the series was based on 40's serials. It's not supposed to be super-realistic, or deeply analyzed.


This is true, but seeing as it is an Indiana Jones film it should still have a certain level of quality and depth that the others films all had. While these films aren't supposed to be deeply analyzed, and while the plots are all kind or outrageous, they all manage to capture the imagination and work in a way the Crystal Skull simply can't. The writing was strong in these scripts, and although not every line delivered was a winner, they all seemed to mesh well together, and they allowed the viewer to grow attached to the characters. The problem with this movie is that the conversations between the characters always feels forced and uninspired. The script also suffers from being heavily cliche driven (" Looks like you brought a knife to a gun fight" or "That can't be good") which causes a little more wincing and sighing than I'd prefer. The action scenes are done up with a little too much CGI as well, and that takes a lot of excitement away that can only be maintained through traditional stunt work. For me I find enjoyment in these movies for their action and world traveling, but first and foremost for their characters, because it is these characters that in my opinion allow these films to be so successful. I am still in a state of shock at how sub par this film is IN GENERAL, not just as an Indiana Jones movie but simply as a movie. I expected so much more from the creative minds who crafted this train wreck, and although I hate to say it Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is worse than the Indy I was dreading. :tup:



There's also a video on IGN that features an interview with Harrison. He says he's willing to do another. I say get a damn good script first, a solid story, and do not rush it! I got a bad Indy, now I want a good one. :tup:

#1397 sark

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 02:10 AM

It seems people are picking this film apart way too much. It's not a Bourne movie. It's Indiana Jones. The whole concept of the series was based on 40's serials. It's not supposed to be super-realistic, or deeply analyzed.


This is true, but seeing as it is an Indiana Jones film it should still have a certain level of quality and depth that the others films all had. While these films aren't supposed to be deeply analyzed, and while the plots are all kind or outrageous, they all manage to capture the imagination and work in a way the Crystal Skull simply can't. The writing was strong in these scripts, and although not every line delivered was a winner, they all seemed to mesh well together, and they allowed the viewer to grow attached to the characters. The problem with this movie is that the conversations between the characters always feels forced and uninspired. The script also suffers from being heavily cliche driven (" Looks like you brought a knife to a gun fight" or "That can't be good") which causes a little more wincing and sighing than I'd prefer. The action scenes are done up with a little too much CGI as well, and that takes a lot of excitement away that can only be maintained through traditional stunt work. For me I find enjoyment in these movies for their action and world traveling, but first and foremost for their characters, because it is these characters that in my opinion allow these films to be so successful. I am still in a state of shock at how sub par this film is IN GENERAL, not just as an Indiana Jones movie but simply as a movie. I expected so much more from the creative minds who crafted this train wreck, and although I hate to say it Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is worse than the Indy I was dreading. :tup:



There's also a video on IGN that features an interview with Harrison. He says he's willing to do another. I say get a damn good script first, a solid story, and do not rush it! I got a bad Indy, now I want a good one. :tup:

All I can say is that I (and 79% of the experts) disagree on just about every one of those points.

#1398 Icephoenix

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 02:25 AM

It seems people are picking this film apart way too much. It's not a Bourne movie. It's Indiana Jones. The whole concept of the series was based on 40's serials. It's not supposed to be super-realistic, or deeply analyzed.


This is true, but seeing as it is an Indiana Jones film it should still have a certain level of quality and depth that the others films all had. While these films aren't supposed to be deeply analyzed, and while the plots are all kind or outrageous, they all manage to capture the imagination and work in a way the Crystal Skull simply can't. The writing was strong in these scripts, and although not every line delivered was a winner, they all seemed to mesh well together, and they allowed the viewer to grow attached to the characters. The problem with this movie is that the conversations between the characters always feels forced and uninspired. The script also suffers from being heavily cliche driven (" Looks like you brought a knife to a gun fight" or "That can't be good") which causes a little more wincing and sighing than I'd prefer. The action scenes are done up with a little too much CGI as well, and that takes a lot of excitement away that can only be maintained through traditional stunt work. For me I find enjoyment in these movies for their action and world traveling, but first and foremost for their characters, because it is these characters that in my opinion allow these films to be so successful. I am still in a state of shock at how sub par this film is IN GENERAL, not just as an Indiana Jones movie but simply as a movie. I expected so much more from the creative minds who crafted this train wreck, and although I hate to say it Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is worse than the Indy I was dreading. :tup:



There's also a video on IGN that features an interview with Harrison. He says he's willing to do another. I say get a damn good script first, a solid story, and do not rush it! I got a bad Indy, now I want a good one. :tup:

All I can say is that I (and 79% of the experts) disagree on just about every one of those points.


Guess that's the beauty of it, everyone's allowed their own opinion. Just because Matt doesn't agree with the majority doesn't make his opinion wrong :(

#1399 Royal Dalton

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 03:10 AM

I am still in a state of shock at how sub par this film is IN GENERAL, not just as an Indiana Jones movie but simply as a movie. I expected so much more from the creative minds who crafted this train wreck, and although I hate to say it Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is worse than the Indy I was dreading. :tup:

Matt, you just summed up in those few short words exactly how I feel about this film.

What else about it made it an abomination for you, Royal? Do you like all the other Indy movies btw?

I love Raiders of the Lost Ark. The other two are pale shadows by comparison. But I can still accept them as 'Indiana Jones' films.

But I don't think this one remotely manages to capture any of the feel, even of those ones. Let alone Raiders.

I also thought the film was badly structured, and boring to boot. Essentially, the whole thing felt completely pointless.

Anyway, some rambling thoughts here:

Posted Image
Just about everything about the film struck the wrong vein for me.

After the early reviews, I thought I'd just go in, sit back, and take it for what it is. But what it is is so awful that I couldn't even do that.

First of all, it was good to see the old Paramount mountain return. The fade into the next shot I was fine with. Making a mountain out of a molehill was a fun idea. I didn't have a problem with the CGI gophers, either. They looked pretty good to me, actually. Then we get Elvis Presley blasting out of a car radio.

Now, I've got nothing against 'Hound Dog', or any of the other Fifties songs playing in the film, but we could have had a bit of Williams music sweeping over the titles before we got to that bit. It just seems out of place. I expect this is Spielberg and Lucas thinking they're being bold and different.

As for the titles, it was nice that they matched Raiders and Last Crusade. But then we get HARRISON FORD IN on the same line, and in the same font size. This sounds ultra-nitpicky, I know. But it looked very sloppy to me. And was a sign of things to come.

Then the film starts. However many zillions of dollars they spent on it, this film looks cheap. Really cheap. The bleached out look soon becomes boring, and it's shot like a TV movie. Where's the scope?

Indy and all the others are introduced. But they're not really introduced. They're just there. Then we're straight into the story. Again, no real build up. We're just straight in there.

Cate Blanchett's great in this film, I have to say. She's the only thing that makes it watchable. Even though her character was criminally underwritten. I was quite disappointed by Ford. He barely seems to be going through the motions half the time.

The warehouse scene was pretty weak until Indy swings into action. But even then it felt quite uninvolving.

The shot of the Ark was an unnecessary addition.

The Doom Town sequence was okay. But the resolution with the flying fridge was nonsensical. It was a bit better in the old Saucer Men script. But not by much.

Then we get an appearance by Jim Robinson from Neighbours, wearing an ill-fitting General's (or whatever he was supposed to be) uniform, with a really awful Kiwi-US accent.

Harrison Ford says: "Nucular."

Jim Broadbent makes for a poor Marcus Brody replacement. And Indy, in his professor guise, looks like Will Hay.

That said, the scene with them in Indy's home was just about the only scene in the film to have any kind of emotional impact. But they still managed to pick two of the worst pictures they could find of Sean Connery and Denholm Elliot.

The scene of the despondent Indy getting on the train was alright, too. Then Mutt comes along on his bike. He's okay as a character. I don't really have a problem with him being in the film. Very clunky gun close-up in the diner scene.

The chase scene following this is just a noisy mess. Although the bit where Indy gets back on the bike was quite good.

The Marcus Brody statue's head getting knocked off was in poor taste. At least have the whole thing fall on them.

Then we're back at Indy's place. Wouldn't it have been easier to have cut the chase bit out altogether, and gone straight from Mutt telling Indy about Oxley in the diner to this scene?

Again, this scene is shot awkwardly. Compare this to the scene in the lecture hall in Raiders. It's like Spielberg's just going through the script and knocking the scenes off with very little care.

The map/plane scene following this is quite nice. But it still looks cheap.

The bit in the Peruvian (or wherever it was) town was alright. But Ray Winstone's reintroduction was badly done.

The bit in Oxley's cell was okay. But a bit too talky.

Then we're in the graveyard. And the ropiest indoor exterior set since Hammer Films shut up shop in the 1970s. I'm not sure who the geezers defending the tombs were exactly. But it doesn't really matter, right? Yeah, I know Indy told us they're the living dead. But he still managed to kill one of them, didn't he.

Cheap reuse of the sound effects from Raiders in this scene, too.

When Indy says "Part-time" it sounds like a different (and worse) take than the one in the trailer.

The scorpion bit was unscary. The next bit where they go further into the crypt and find the skull was quite good.

Oh look, a load of Russians with Ray Winstone. But is he good, or bad? And why should we care, since we've never been properly introduced to the character in the first place?

Indy and Mutt are taken to a jungle camp that looks about as realistic as the one in Carry On Up The Jungle.

John Hurt's there too, as Indy's old friend Oxley. But he's gone barking mad, and he's dancing around like Catweazle on speed.

I quite like the shot of the skull when Indy gets hypnotized by it. And Hurt was good here, too.

Later on at the camp, Indy meets his old flame Marion Ravenwood. Mutt's mother! Yeah, Indy, it was that Marion. Remember her now? You didn't think to ask Mutt what her maiden name was, did you? Duh!

But this ain't the Marion of old. She's now turned into a right old fishwife, and can no longer act. But with such bad dialogue and direction, I can't say I blame her for phoning it in. What a waste of a great character.

The quicksand scene was naff, and the plot exposition clunky. And the snake business, although it would have been alright as a quick sight gag, was dragged out for far too long.

The bickering in the truck was rubbish, although I did like the "That was before I knew I was your dad." bit.

This whole jungle chase sequence was one long noisy, fake-looking, confusing, uninvolving, and unexciting, borefest. The CGI monkeys were crap, and so were Mutt's CGI legs.

I quite liked the scene with the ants. The CGI was good here. The bit where Hurt separates the ants with the skull was pretty much the film's only bit of 'proper' Indy magic.

Then we get Marion driving over a cliff, and all that waterfall business. The waterfall bit was okay the first time. But three times over was too much.

Why were those warriors in the temple living in the brickwork? The key to opening the Akator temple (or whatever it was) wasn't exactly rocket science, either.

The scene where they're running down the disappearing staircase was pretty good.

Then they get in the throne room with the crystal skeletons. Okay, I'm still buying the alien concept up to this point. Then Blanchett puts the missing skull in place.

Everything after this point can be summed up with the phrase: WTF???!!!

I haven't got a bloody clue what was actually supposed to be happening here in terms of the plot. Yeah, it's really a spaceship they're in, and these crystal skeletons all unify into one living alien being, and the token villains get sucked up into the void.

But do the baddies actually die, or what? Or are they off on a trip to another dimension?

Some kind of explanation of what was going on would have been nice.

Then we get the spaceship take-off. It's a nice-looking sequence. Especially the bit with the ruins being flooded afterwards. But I'd given up on the film by then.

The scene on the mountaintop was okay, although the dialogue was still clunky. But this, and the following scene, were the only parts of the film where Ford really felt to me like he'd captured the spirit of the old Indy.

Maybe that was the idea, with Indy getting his old spirit back at the end. But to spend the preceding two hours without that Indy was a pretty dull experience.

The closing wedding scene was okay. Although, it would have been a nice touch if they'd walked out of the church arm-in-arm past the camera, like they did at the end of Raiders.

Well, that's about it. I think the basic plot for this film was okay. But the script, and the execution of it, was dreadful.

For me, Cate Blanchett, John Hurt, and some of the new themes in John Williams's score, are the only saving graces of this mess of a film.


#1400 Fro

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 03:58 AM

What really let the movie down was the actual plot structure and dialogue... a lot of the ideas are good but there's very little character development, Jones is mainly passive, there's no real sense of journey, and they barely travel anywhere (it makes "License to Kill" look like an epic travelogue). Lots of redundant exposition that should have been cut, and they reveal the mystery of the MacGuffin too early in the film. It really was like someone took bits and pieces of all the rejected scripts and mixed them together with very little structure to it. I'm sure people have talked already about the few absurd moments, a couple of which would even be over the top for "Die Another Day" or "Moonraker".

Thought the cinematography was excellent, the structure of the individual shots vintage Spielberg, and good performances from the actors, especially Ford.

I still enjoyed the movie, despite it being mediocre and there were some great scenes, but I expect the Indy franchise to at least be better than "The Mummy" or "National Treasure".

Edited by Fro, 24 May 2008 - 03:58 AM.


#1401 sark

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 04:30 AM

I imagine Spielberg's respons to any of these criticisms would be the same as his response to Austin Power's criticism in Goldmember :tup:

#1402 Royal Dalton

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 04:45 AM

Halle Berry's got one of those, too.

Anyway, that's half the problem. Spielberg and Lucas aren't hungry anymore.

#1403 Harmsway

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 05:02 AM

Saw KINGDOM a second time. Moves up from a C+ to a B/B-. Definitely a fun film, and maybe my second favorite behind RAIDERS. I like individual moments in TEMPLE OF DOOM more than what KINGDOM serves up, but overall, KINGDOM is more satisfying.

I certainly won't hold it against anyone for disliking the movie (just as I wouldn't hold it against a Bond fan for disliking MOONRAKER, even though I really love that film), but that doesn't diminish its entertainment value for me. As far as popcorn entertainment goes, I'll take it over the much-praised IRON MAN, which honestly isn't any better of a film.

#1404 bpetta1

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 08:17 AM

Royal Dalton and Matt...sadly, I agree with all of your points.

Anyone who enjoyed this film, good for you, I'm glad you enjoyed it...I wish I did. I grew up with an Indy poster over my bed and a fedora on my coat-rack, so to say this film was important to me is an under-statement. You can argue that it was just a fun summer film and it did its job, and that's a fine argument. But please, don't argue it was a good film.

It just wasn't. The dialogue was strained throughout and downright horrendous at others. There was never, ever any sense of danger or tension. The premise, although weak in itself, was handled absolutely terribly. It could and should have been a decent movie. But it wasn't. The script was awful, just awful. It violated almost every rule that a well-structured screenplay follows. And most of all, Indiana wasn't Indiana. I can't explain it, but I never, ever felt I was watching THE Indiana Jones.

To sum it up, I've never felt this sad leaving a movie theater. I felt betrayed, angry, and just plain awestruck at the poor quality. I had been looking forward to this movie since the mid-90s when rumors began circulating that a script had been commissioned, and I was let down...immensely. I honestly cannot fathom how and why this movie was green-lighted and produced.

I really hope that people will take off their Indiana Jones blinders and see this film for what it really is... and the truth is it's a truly, truly bad film.

#1405 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 09:46 AM

And most of all, Indiana wasn't Indiana. I can't explain it, but I never, ever felt I was watching THE Indiana Jones.

I did and I gave Harrison Ford alot of crap on this site. I think Ford delivers and the idea of him doing this role at 65 would seem almost inhumane back in '89 but he steps up. I think the awkward script, Lucas and Spielberg were the ones who didn't show up.I never wanted to see this film because I thought Ford would look ridiculous at his age playing this role and I'm happy to say he does deliver Indiana Jones and even adds more intrigue to his character with his WWII exploits. Unfortunately he has too many cooks in the kitchen and doesn't get his own film.

#1406 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 09:55 AM

Saw KINGDOM a second time. Moves up from a C+ to a B/B-. Definitely a fun film, and maybe my second favorite behind RAIDERS. I like individual moments in TEMPLE OF DOOM more than what KINGDOM serves up, but overall, KINGDOM is more satisfying.

I certainly won't hold it against anyone for disliking the movie (just as I wouldn't hold it against a Bond fan for disliking MOONRAKER, even though I really love that film), but that doesn't diminish its entertainment value for me. As far as popcorn entertainment goes, I'll take it over the much-praised IRON MAN, which honestly isn't any better of a film.


Raiders is my all time favorite popcorn movie but Iron Man is a better film hands down than 'Skull. Maybe you prefer the Indy series to the marvel comic book property and that's totally cool but Iron Man is a more economically structured movie, has more humor and no WTF moments(tarzan,monkeys). I saw IM again and I think my opinion has improved on a second viewing. But FWIW, I think your Dark Knight will be the summer's best film.Just a hunch.

#1407 Skudor

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 11:11 AM

I posted my comments in the 'what movie...' thread. Saw Indy last night and wasn't too impressed. Felt unexciting. But I'm sure a ten year old would be blown away.

Ford was good - the script and the dialogue less so.

#1408 Loomis

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 12:30 PM

So I dug out my RAIDERS DVD and watched about half the film. Hadn't seen it in years (I saw - and enjoyed - the second half of TEMPLE of TV the other day, and tried and failed to sit through CRUSADE when it was on telly recently).

I was expecting RAIDERS to be perfect, and you know what? I don't think it is. Don't get me wrong, it's hugely entertaining stuff, and when it works it really works. It's full of shots and scenes that have rightly entered movie history, and back in the day it felt genuinely fresh and exciting and led to hundreds of imitations, blah blah blah.

But perfect?

I don't know if I was watching a different RAIDERS to the one that everyone raves about, but I find that the film has a few pacing problems. Okay, so I'm not calling for the modern day Michael Bay treatment whereby everything's put together so fast and so messily because it's feared that viewers have no attention span whatsoever, but consider the scene near the beginning in which government agents visit Indy and Brody - it's a dialogue-fest that seems to drag on forever, with the actors (as often seems the case during RAIDERS) rather too far away from the camera. It slows things down.

I bring this up because of all the criticisms that CRYSTAL is an excessively talky affair. Well, so's RAIDERS, in places. It has its share of garbled exposition, and certainly more than its share of plot holes.

I mean, how does the Nazi know that he should follow Indy to Nepal? (Okay, you can "fanwank" an answer, namely that the Nazis were keeping tabs on the American government agents, who led them to Indy, but it's the sort of thing that requires some suspension of disbelief.) How does Indy know where to find Marion? Why do the Nazis go to extreme and constant lengths to have Indy killed as soon as he turns up in Cairo, yet they don't kill him when he's a sitting duck talking to Belloq? (Although they do try again straight afterwards.)

And then there are the performances: while Ford has some wonderful, history-making moments (his shooting of the swordsman cracks me up every time), there are also points at which he overacts horribly or is just plain wooden. And there's not quite as much chemistry between him and Karen Allen as I'd always imagined.

RAIDERS is mainly a triumph of production design and action. I wonder whether it's as far removed from CRYSTAL as many people are making out.

#1409 Mr_Wint

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 12:55 PM

I've seen it a second time now and I liked it slightly more this time. But only slightly. I'll stay at 6/10 for IJ4. Spielberg did his best but was given very poor material to work with.

Another thing: 125 min really isn't enough for this movie. The story is just moving too fast. Adding another 15 min with only dialouge could've saved this film big time. Hopefully we'll see some deleted scenes back in the movie for the DVD! I've got a strong feeling that they ruined it in the editing room.

#1410 dodge

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 02:39 PM

THE DODGE SUPREMACY
Or: Lemme at my Humble Pie!

Call this less a review than a cautionary tale about the mortal dangers of loving a film in advance...possibly, dear friends, even QoS.

I doubt there's a man in this country--or rather what's left of this country--who went into Crystal Skull with higher hopes than I did. Get clear: I didn't give a holy hoot if Ford was sixty-five. Or if Lucas and Spielberg were in the same age ballpark. I went in, convinced I'd see a knock-down, four-star masterpiece.

How many stars do I give it today? At best, 1-1/2. In my darker moments, I give it less than that--and see it as a plastic toy that should have been stuffed in a cereal box.

I suspected trouble from the start--and, just minutes into the film, I found myself muttering the same line that Indy would repeat throughout: This doesn't look good, Man, this doesn't look good. What's the trademark of all Indy films? The stunning opening set piece. This one's wholly uninspired--and, coming from the man who gave us Duel, Jaws and Raiders, the entire sequence looks hopelessly tired and anemic. Not a thrill to be had. Not a cheer in the room.

(Correction to all re the lighting: we've had numerous complaints here about the bright lighting. That's in the opening part of the film and intended, I'd say, for two purposes: to set us in a different era right off (the film looks, to my eyes at least, like old Fifties movies here)...and also to display Indy as something of an anachronism. No major spoilers here, but: the intended opening Money Scene takes place in a simulated suburbian town and the blindingly bright colors are really as effective in their way as QT's visit to suburbia in Kill Bill. Once we get to the jungles and temples, we're back on classic turf.)

Though I'm not into age jokes, I must say this plays like two geezers' wet dreams. Older directors and producers have gone on elsewhere to produce stunningly bold, youthful work. But this is lazy and bone-tired: from the completely incompetent action scenes...to the moronic bickering between Ford and Karen Allen...to the self-indulgent references to past Indy glories. The film is never dumber than when it tries to be cool: a motorcycle race through a hallowed scholl's halls...a groaner fight between frat boys and greasers...Old, old, old, old! And not in years--old at heart!

And could I see The End come in advance? From the introduction of young Shane LeBuff, or whatever his damned name is, I said: This doesn't look good...I see him at the very end starting to don Indy's cap--and then Indy snatching it back with a wink and the trademark, wolfish smile.

I wasn't disappointed--which is to say, I gagged.

And yet I called this little rant The Dodge Supremacy for two good reasons: Now that I've been really had, I'm eager to see what Marc Forster can do. 2) I've satisfied I've got the chops to call it like I see it.

Lemme at that Humble Pie!


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