232 replies to this topic

[Scrambled Eggs]

By his remark about losing ones virginity the oldfashioned way I always understood the oldfashioned way as the hasty enthusiastic groping in the backrows of cinemas and the backseats of cars. Granted, that doesn't necessarily incorporate the object of attention belonging to the other sex, but I don't think that was his point at all.

This is the actual quote, it's from an article Fleming wrote in 1962 entitled "How to write a thriller".

I have no message for suffering humanity and, though I was bullied at school and lost my virginity like so many of us used to do in the old days, I have never been tempted to foist these and other harrowing personal experiences on the public.

Many of us will have had harrowing personal experiences whilst trying to have sex on the backseats of cars. But somehow I don't think that's what old Ian was getting at.

I think this is probably where the "Fleming = gay" stuff comes from. If he talked openly (albeit via euphemisms) about having had same sex experiences then it's no wonder he gets branded as gay by some parts of the media.

But, without wishing to labour the point, Ian Fleming was profoundly heterosexual.

Edited by Scrambled Eggs, 26 March 2007 - 06:53 PM.

[Tarl_Cabot]

There was a time when dressing smartly or tastefully, having a worldy eduacation and an appreciation of the finer things in life was not the domain of gay men but any man who choose to advance himself. I guess if you apply all of Bond's attributes in your real life you won't be up to your neck in hot chics but rather burdended by unwelcome suspicion and gossip.Sad that being a simple minded, sports fixated slob is the criteria for being 'straight'.


Now on to Tom Cruise...

[HildebrandRarity]

By his remark about losing ones virginity the oldfashioned way I always understood the oldfashioned way as the hasty enthusiastic groping in the backrows of cinemas and the backseats of cars. Granted, that doesn't necessarily incorporate the object of attention belonging to the other sex, but I don't think that was his point at all.

He could have meant not losing it to an older student in one of the dormatories at Eton.

One never will know. Bond's womanizing could have been a attempt to veil his own personal fetishes and desires that could have been awakened by some of the boys at the old boarding school.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 26 March 2007 - 09:55 PM.

[spynovelfan]

By his remark about losing ones virginity the oldfashioned way I always understood the oldfashioned way as the hasty enthusiastic groping in the backrows of cinemas and the backseats of cars. Granted, that doesn't necessarily incorporate the object of attention belonging to the other sex, but I don't think that was his point at all.

This is the actual quote, it's from an article Fleming wrote in 1962 entitled "How to write a thriller".

I have no message for suffering humanity and, though I was bullied at school and lost my virginity like so many of us used to do in the old days, I have never been tempted to foist these and other harrowing personal experiences on the public.

Many of us will have had harrowing personal experiences whilst trying to have sex on the backseats of cars. But somehow I don't think that's what old Ian was getting at.

I think this is probably where the "Fleming = gay" stuff comes from. If he talked openly (albeit via euphemisms) about having had same sex experiences then it's no wonder he gets branded as gay by some parts of the media.

But, without wishing to labour the point, Ian Fleming was profoundly heterosexual.

...Is the right answer.

[triviachamp]

This is the actual quote, it's from an article Fleming wrote in 1962 entitled "How to write a thriller".

I have no message for suffering humanity and, though I was bullied at school and lost my virginity like so many of us used to do in the old days, I have never been tempted to foist these and other harrowing personal experiences on the public.

Interesting. But Are we looking into this quote too much these days though?

[HildebrandRarity]

This is the actual quote, it's from an article Fleming wrote in 1962 entitled "How to write a thriller".

I have no message for suffering humanity and, though I was bullied at school and lost my virginity like so many of us used to do in the old days, I have never been tempted to foist these and other harrowing personal experiences on the public.

Interesting. But Are we looking into this quote too much these days though?

It's quite clear that he lost his virginity in a harrowing way to a member of the same gender at school. He may have had homosexual experiences but that does not make him gay.

Perhaps he was bi?

Even as recently as the late 1970s Freddie Mercury was dead set against the idea of the facts about his own sexuality and personal life getting out into the public domain. It was probably worse for a Fleming type in the 1950s and 60s.

[Royal Dalton]

Perhaps he was bi?

Yes, he was bisexual.

If he wanted sex, he had to buy it.

[Jim]

Thing is, no man has ever, ever come forward at any time to state that he had sex with someone who was probably the world's most famous popular author. Ever. All we have to go on is the man himself being hugely euphemistic. Maybe he was buggered at Eton - happened to me so it's not impossible - but without wishing to appear in denial, I just don't buy it. I accept that for anyone to come forward now, he would be very. very old indeed and probably thinks he's an ant or something, but as someone could have made a bit of money with the story at some point and no-one has, I'm not convinced. I still send Benjamin and his wife a Christmas card ever year, and his three children are delightful, by the way.

[DamnCoffee]

Well, he did go to Eton. So the chances are pretty high that he dabbled in it at one time, or another.

So did Bond, but there is no proof that he's gay .

[Jim]

Well, he did go to Eton. So the chances are pretty high that he dabbled in it at one time, or another.

So did Bond, but there is no proof that he's gay .

Given that the working title of Young Bond 4 is "The Man That Touched My Front Bottom", I wouldn't bet on it.

[Santa]

Well, taking it up the Gary and being gay are not really the same thing. If the question is did Ian Fleming, willingly or otherwise, have bum sex at some point or other in his life? Then the answer is probably yes.
If the question is did he fancy men and want to have sex with them in preference to women? The answer is most likely no.

[Royal Dalton]

Given that the working title of Young Bond 4 is "The Man That Touched My Front Bottom", I wouldn't bet on it.

Eh? I thought it was going to be called ' Bandit'?

[Jim]

Given that the working title of Young Bond 4 is "The Man That Touched My Front Bottom", I wouldn't bet on it.

Eh? I thought it was going to be called ' Bandit'?

That's the German version.

[Hitch]

Could "losing one's virginity the old-fashioned way" refer to visiting a prostitute? I merely posit the thought because I am unfamiliar with the cracks and crevices, as it were, of Eton life.

I'm confused as to whether my contribution raises or lowers the tone of this thread.

[Scrambled Eggs]

Could "losing one's virginity the old-fashioned way" refer to visiting a prostitute? I merely posit the thought because I am unfamiliar with the cracks and crevices, as it were, of Eton life.

I'm confused as to whether my contribution raises or lowers the tone of this thread.

Your post has raised the tone, solely by temporarily removing the potential for bum jokes.

I don't think he was talking about prostitutes. Simply because he describes this...encounter... as a "harrowing personal experience" and if the books are anything to go by, Ian was a big fan of "femme de mauvaise vie".

[HildebrandRarity]

Thing is, no man has ever, ever come forward at any time to state that he had sex with someone who was probably the world's most famous popular author. Ever. All we have to go on is the man himself being hugely euphemistic. Maybe he was buggered at Eton - happened to me so it's not impossible - but without wishing to appear in denial, I just don't buy it. I accept that for anyone to come forward now, he would be very. very old indeed and probably thinks he's an ant or something, but as someone could have made a bit of money with the story at some point and no-one has, I'm not convinced.

I, with all due respect, don't buy your argument. Whom ever it was, the individual (or, even, individuals) circulated in the same social clique as Fleming and i) would not have needed "a bit of money" (an assumption, but not an improbable one) to profit from such a disclosure and ii) would likely have been equally as embarrassed (The Freddie Mercury Syndrome circa late 1970s/early 80s) as Fleming to engage in said disclosure.

It's really not a big deal, is it? I mean the entire Fleming and Eon canon is littered with non-fully hetrosexual characters and innuendos (as recently even as Verity/Frost in '02 and Le Chiffre in '06).

So he may have dabbled. Perhaps he was forced as a youngster. Even fantasised about it as a older man. So? Wowwie!

Each to their own.

In the end, (forgive the pun...couldn't help it), this does not change my tremendous enjoyment of the movies or the books or the art or the music one bit.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 27 March 2007 - 06:54 PM.

[doublenoughtspy]

I, with all due respect, don't buy your argument. Whom ever it was, the individual (or, even, individuals) circulated in the same social clique as Fleming and i) would not have needed "a bit of money" (an assumption, but not an improbable one) to profit from such a disclosure and ii) would likely have been equally as embarrassed (The Freddie Mercury Syndrome circa late 1970s/early 80s) as Fleming to engage in said disclosure.

But you ignore the fact that regardless of whether or not the individuals would have come forward for money or publicity, no second/third/fourth hand story has ever appeared anywhere linking Fleming with homosexual rape/expermentation/participation.

Pearson and Lycett conducted HUNDREDs of interviews with Fleming's friends, family, and Etonian classmates.

I've gone through Pearson's research - and while their were interesting stories about Fleming's sex life that did not see print - none of them involved men.

Fleming's known sexual peccadillo - spanking his wife - was finally brought forward because Ann was dead and didn't have to OK the manuscript as Pearson had to deal with.

The only so called "evidence" we have is a piece he wrote in 1962 that can be interpreted many different ways. You declare that it must mean homosexual intercourse. Others interpret it as heterosexual with the possibility that he was caught in a theatre or car - or the possibility that it was with a prostitute and might have lost his wallet or caught a disease. All 3 scenarios would qualify as a "harrowing personal experience."

Fleming's life has been under the mircoscope for a long time. I agree with Jim - it's quite strange that nothing has surfaced.

I can not say whether or not Fleming ever had sex with another man. But I can name at least 20 women that he slept with.

[dee-bee-five]

Ian was married. How could he be gay?

I find that rather touching. It reminds me of my mother who told me years ago that Freddie Mercury couldn't be gay because he had a moustache.

Could "losing one's virginity the old-fashioned way" refer to visiting a prostitute? I merely posit the thought because I am unfamiliar with the cracks and crevices, as it were, of Eton life.

Ah, if only we could differentiate between the cracks and the crevices, we would have the answer to the puzzle...

Thing is, no man has ever, ever come forward at any time to state that he had sex with someone who was probably the world's most famous popular author. Ever. All we have to go on is the man himself being hugely euphemistic. Maybe he was buggered at Eton - happened to me so it's not impossible - but without wishing to appear in denial, I just don't buy it. I accept that for anyone to come forward now, he would be very. very old indeed and probably thinks he's an ant or something, but as someone could have made a bit of money with the story at some point and no-one has, I'm not convinced. I still send Benjamin and his wife a Christmas card ever year, and his three children are delightful, by the way.

They'll be saying he was into S&M next...

(If Benjamin's cute, can I have his number?)

[HildebrandRarity]

I, with all due respect, don't buy your argument. Whom ever it was, the individual (or, even, individuals) circulated in the same social clique as Fleming and i) would not have needed "a bit of money" (an assumption, but not an improbable one) to profit from such a disclosure and ii) would likely have been equally as embarrassed (The Freddie Mercury Syndrome circa late 1970s/early 80s) as Fleming to engage in said disclosure.

But you ignore the fact that regardless of whether or not the individuals would have come forward for money or publicity, no second/third/fourth hand story has ever appeared anywhere linking Fleming with homosexual rape/expermentation/participation.

Pearson and Lycett conducted HUNDREDs of interviews with Fleming's friends, family, and Etonian classmates.

Well...it's not my thread and, as I also stated in the post you quote, each to their own. I'm not frazzled by the idea that he may have had it...or that he was that way so inclined.

I mean, he was a bigot, an adulterer, a snob, a substance abuser and into kinky S&M...none of it has diminished my enjoyment of all things James Bond.

I like the character and his world on film and literature. Fleming is not my hero. He merely was a writer as far as i'm concerned and nothing more.

Others on this site *might* deify him and, as a result, may defend his hetrosexuality. I don't care to do either...nor do I choose to look down upon him.

Each to their own.

[dee-bee-five]

I, with all due respect, don't buy your argument. Whom ever it was, the individual (or, even, individuals) circulated in the same social clique as Fleming and i) would not have needed "a bit of money" (an assumption, but not an improbable one) to profit from such a disclosure and ii) would likely have been equally as embarrassed (The Freddie Mercury Syndrome circa late 1970s/early 80s) as Fleming to engage in said disclosure.

But you ignore the fact that regardless of whether or not the individuals would have come forward for money or publicity, no second/third/fourth hand story has ever appeared anywhere linking Fleming with homosexual rape/expermentation/participation.

Pearson and Lycett conducted HUNDREDs of interviews with Fleming's friends, family, and Etonian classmates.

I mean, he was an adulterer, a snob, a substance abuser and into kinky S&M...

You write as thought these are bad things. Personally, I find they make the man far more interesting. Better that than he was some boring monogamist with three kids and a mortgage.

[Hotwinds]

Of course he was gay. All bird lovers are gay, everyone knows that. LOL









I don't want to cause a big kerfuffle but I would like to know what others here know: Was he gay?

[Scrambled Eggs]

I don't want to cause a big kerfuffle but I would like to know what others here know: Was he gay?

No.

Come to think of it, it's remarkable that this thread has had more than a one word response.

Edited by Scrambled Eggs, 27 March 2007 - 10:07 PM.

[doublenoughtspy]

Well...it's not my thread and, as I also stated in the post you quote, each to their own. I'm not frazzled by the idea that he may have had it...or that he was that way so inclined.

I'm not frazzled by it either. He had plenty of homosexual friends: Plomer, Coward, Chopping, etc. etc. He did refer to them as "buggers" in letters and was uncomfortable if forced to share quarters with them, according to letters to his wife.

I mean, he was a bigot, an adulterer, a snob, a substance abuser and into kinky S&M...none of it has diminished my enjoyment of all things James Bond.

I'd add plagarist and liar, or embellisher of the truth, to that list too.

I like the character and his world on film and literature. Fleming is not my hero. He merely was a writer as far as i'm concerned and nothing more.

Others on this site *might* deify him and, as a result, may defend his hetrosexuality. I don't care to do either...nor do I choose to look down upon him.

Each to their own.

I'm not sure how asking for evidence other than the a sentence that can be construed multiple ways is "defending his hetrosexuality" or deifying him.

His hetrosexuality is a court established fact - he was named in multiple divorce cases as the reason for divorce - and not on the man's side. One of these cases resulted in a stillborn daughter.

Did some upperclassman at Eton force him to play hide the soap? I don't know. But in answer to the original poster's question, Ian Fleming was not a practising homosexual.

[triviachamp]

I'd add plagarist and liar, or embellisher of the truth, to that list too.

Care to explain? I presume "plagarist" is refering to Thunderball but what about the latter? Did he embellish his role in WWII?

[doublenoughtspy]

Well a couple things he often embellished - saying he was 7th when there were 5 spots for the diplomatic service (he was 26th and only the top 3 were offered jobs), claiming he got his commission from Sandhurst and was going to go into the Blackwatch - when in reality he was kicked out.

Embellishing one's resume isn't the worst crime - but Fleming repeated these lies so often he probably started beliving them.

Triviachamp - it wouldn't kill you to read Pearson's or Lycett's biography you know...each can be had for less than $10 on ebay or book websites like bookfinder.com.

Sorry for the hard sell - but you'll learn a lot about Bond too.

[triviachamp]

Triviachamp - it wouldn't kill you to read Pearson's or Lycett's biography you know...each can be had for less than $10 on ebay or book websites like bookfinder.com.

Sorry for the hard sell - but you'll learn a lot about Bond too.

I just ordered Lycett's and Pearson from the public library (I am a cheapskate ) so I should have them soon.

[doublenoughtspy]

I just ordered Lycett's and Pearson from the public library (I am a cheapskate ) so I should have them soon.

Free is good

I'll be interested to hear what you think.

[Santa]

I don't say this bit to purposely cause arguments (believe it or not) and I happen to think he wasn't gay but there is a strange presumption being made here. Can I point out that sleeping with mountains of women does not then preclude also sleeping with men. My brother has a charming expression 'Any hole's a goal' (sorry, really) and I know plenty who are simply not that fussy or are just plain greedy. Sleeping with men and sleeping with women, the two are not mutually exclusive. Evidence to say specifically that he was not gay I'd be happy with, but tossing in the amount of women he supposedly slept with as if it answers the question 'is he gay?' is not adequate. Again, I personally don't think he was but I just thought I'd mention it. Oh, and as for "He was married" - ahhhhh, bless your heart.

[Jim]

I don't say this bit to purposely cause arguments (believe it or not) and I happen to think he wasn't gay but there is a strange presumption being made here. Can I point out that sleeping with mountains of women does not then preclude also sleeping with men. My brother has a charming expression 'Any hole's a goal' (sorry, really) and I know plenty who are simply not that fussy or are just plain greedy. Sleeping with men and sleeping with women, the two are not mutually exclusive. Evidence to say specifically that he was not gay I'd be happy with, but tossing in the amount of women he supposedly slept with as if it answers the question 'is he gay?' is not adequate. Again, I personally don't think he was but I just thought I'd mention it. Oh, and as for "He was married" - ahhhhh, bless your heart.

Well that's true enough and his incidents of rampant heterosexual conduct may have been denial/the gentleman protesteth too much but with this particular man there's been damn all evidence save for potentially corroborative guesswork.

Still, doesn't matter. Any hole for a pole.

[Santa]

Exactly. Stuff happens at these kinds of schools and it stays there, in the past. It's a bit like the 'Law of the Stag'.