232 replies to this topic

[triviachamp]

I don't want to cause a big kerfuffle but I would like to know what others here know: Was he gay?

Not that I care if it is true (so none of this "why does it matter?" stuff ) but that is what I want: the truth. So is there any proof of Fleming being homosexual or is it just typical modern scandal sheet "Everybody and his dog is gay" stuff? I don't know a whole lot about Fleming but hopefully some Phlemmmmmming fanatics here will know more.

Anyway we should be thankful he was not a movie star or a politician!

[Royal Dalton]

Well, he did go to Eton. So the chances are pretty high that he dabbled in it at one time, or another.

[Santa]

Haven't we all...

[clinkeroo]

No.

[dee-bee-five]

No.

You'll never know what you've missed...

[Jim]

Well, he did go to Eton. So the chances are pretty high that he dabbled in it at one time, or another.

I went to Eton; the one does not inevitably lead to the other. But do note "not inevitably".

[ACE]

I don't want to cause a big kerfuffle but I would like to know what others here know: Was he gay?

I appreciate you don't know much about the man, triviachamp, but if you'd read any of the biographies on the man, you wouldn't be asking this question. There would be no need to "clear this up" - it wasn't in doubt in the first place! It leads to to the trap of putting a sensationalist view on the agenda.

Not that it matters but Ian Fleming was not gay (in the common meaning of the word: "dabbling" does not equal "gay", generally)!

It wouldn't bother me either way if he was or wasn't but the man has been dead for over 40 years so there's little chance we shall ever know (if we really ever know) conclusively or have "proof".

Hence, I agree with you, "it [is] just typical modern scandal sheet 'Everybody and his dog is gay' stuff."

[dee-bee-five]

Well, he did go to Eton. So the chances are pretty high that he dabbled in it at one time, or another.

I went to Eton; the one does not inevitably lead to the other. But do note "not inevitably".

Quite. I went to a grammar and learned everything I know there...

I don't want to cause a big kerfuffle but I would like to know what others here know: Was he gay?

"dabbling" does not equal "gay", generally!

Ah, the number of supposedly straight guys I've been out with who've clung to that excuse!

But why are we even having this discussion in the 21st century? Straight, gay, lesbian, bi - these terms are SO last century. Ian Fleming could have slept with mice as far as I'm concerned; it wouldn't diminish my enjoyment of his books.

[ACE]

But why are we even having this discussion in the 21st century? Straight, gay, lesbian, bi - these terms are SO last century. Ian Fleming could have slept with mice as far as I'm concerned; it wouldn't diminish my enjoyment of his books.

I agree. As Jim Carrey said, "It's only skin!"

[Loomis]

So is there any proof of Fleming being homosexual or is it just typical modern scandal sheet "Everybody and his dog is gay" stuff?

What are you referring to? I've never encountered a single rumour about Flemmmmingg being gay. Rumours about various Bond actors "dabbling", yes, but none about Fellmign.

[triviachamp]

Who would be a good biographer ACE? Lycett?

So is there any proof of Fleming being homosexual or is it just typical modern scandal sheet "Everybody and his dog is gay" stuff?

What are you referring to? I've never encountered a single rumour about Flemmmmingg being gay. Rumours about various Bond actors "dabbling", yes, but none about Fellmign.

Well here it mentions "rumours" and gives a rather evasive non-answer:
http://72.14.205.104...A...;cd=1&gl=ca

As for actors, who have you heard of? I read there was a rumour here of Roger Moore getting the role because of the casting couch. I was shocked by that, I thought if anyone got the role due to the casting couch it would be Lazenby!

[zencat]

No, not gay...English.

[ACE]

No, not gay...English.

Steady Zencat! I'll spank your bottom!!!!!

Yup, triviachamp, Lycett's biography is the best to start with. I've read them all and each have their value. But the Lycett book is terrific and up to date. It is not sensationalist but a well-researched, fascinating tome.

[Bondian]

I think he was more like a than gay.

[Scrambled Eggs]

No, not gay...English.

ooooh get her!

I remember a thread on here (I think one of the "Ian Fleming is great and literary critics are all jealous" threads) where someone quoted Fleming as saying something along the lines of,"...those of us who lost our virginity the old fashioned way...." in reference to his days at Eton.

So, by his own admission he indulged in a bit of Greek. But, that doesn't make him gay by inclination.

A more interesting thread title might be "Is there a gay subtext in the Bond books?" I've always had my doubts about his relationship with Quarrel. Before heading off to Crab Key he spends a week sunbathing with the big fella and he only takes up with Honey once his male companion is safely barbecued and out of the picture.

Dr No can be read as a meditation on Bond's confused sexuality.

Maybe.

Edited by Scrambled Eggs, 25 March 2007 - 09:42 PM.

[K1Bond007]

I guess I don't know where the idea that he was gay is even coming from? I mean there were some subtle hints (usually associated to sadism) from some of the villains and then the point on Honeychile's backside that even Noel Coward called him on... but Fleming was a womanizer. All his biographies will tell you about all the women (usually referred to as 'tarts') he picked up - including VD or whatever the hell it was

[TheSaint]

As for actors, who have you heard of? I read there was a rumour here of Roger Moore getting the role because of the casting couch. I was shocked by that, I thought if anyone got the role due to the casting couch it would be Lazenby!

I swear to God sometimes I come across the most stupid threads here! Fleming-not gay. Roger-DEFINITELY not gay. The casting couch? If Roger was gay I couldn't see him shtupping either Cubby or Harry for the role.

[triviachamp]

Roger-DEFINITELY not gay.

All of those marriages were just a cover TheSaint. I kid, I kid.

[triviachamp]

I guess I don't know where the idea that he was gay is even coming from?

Well these days the "in" thing is to say that someone was secretly gay. Plus I suppose it would be quite ironic that Bond would actually be a gay fantasy of heterosexuality.

Well I guess I found that his supposed homosexuality is just a modern scandal sheet stuff.

Now all we need to do now is to discredit the future rumours of him being an anti-Semitic Nazi Freemason who killed JFK, Marilyn Monroe, Thelma Todd, Paul Bern and overthrew Mossadegh and Diem!

[TheREAL008]

Ian was married. How could he be gay?

[K1Bond007]

Ian was married. How could he be gay?

Not to give any sort of credibility to this topic or credence or whatever, but that's a really bad argument. Just saying.

[clinkeroo]

No.

You'll never know what you've missed...

Oh, not you, DB. I was just answering the question the thread asks.

[Loomis]

As for actors, who have you heard of? I read there was a rumour here of Roger Moore getting the role because of the casting couch. I was shocked by that, I thought if anyone got the role due to the casting couch it would be Lazenby!

I swear to God sometimes I come across the most stupid threads here! Fleming-not gay. Roger-DEFINITELY not gay. The casting couch? If Roger was gay I couldn't see him shtupping either Cubby or Harry for the role.

The rumours I was referring to are just rumours, which can't be backed up and aren't worth repeating. Such rumours are a dime a dozen about virtually every celebrity, from Britney Spears to Sylvester Stallone; heck, there have even been plenty of "Is Daniel Craig gay?" and "Craig wants a gay love scene in the next Bond film" stories.

I mentioned these rumours not to give them further life, but just to make the point - for whatever it may be worth - that, while there's plenty of gossip to be found about so-and-so and so-and-so, I'd never encountered any such stories about Fleming.

[killkenny kid]

Indeed, Loomis. The sad thing, about all of this. Is with the state of the world, you would think that there are more important things to worry about.Well, I guess not.

[Trident]

Honestly, on closer consideration I can hardly think of anyone who strikes me as being less homosexual than Fleming. Throughout his work he seems to wholeheartedly enjoy his descriptions of different female bodys and their respective erotic impact on Bond. I know that doesn't prove anything but one also could hardly call it a blatant sign of hidden homosexuality, isn't it? And from what I gather from his private life (and there seems to be very little that's been left in the dark about it), he enjoyed those same temptations in real life which he described in his books.

His exploits may have left him with an uneasy conscience at times, but again I wouldn't blame a suppressed sexual attraction towards men. After all, even the gay amongst us do feel the same from time to time and nobody would chalk that down to hidden heterosexuality.

Fleming seemed to be a little bit into kinky stuff (mild kinky stuff by modern standarts as any look into the www. will undoubtedly verify) judging from his letters. He had several closer friends who were more or less openly homosexual i.e. he had a much more relaxed aptitude towards homosexuality than was common in his time. But I'm still pretty certain he wasn't unsure of his own sexual tastes and freely indulged in them. And would have done so, had they been other tastes.

By his remark about losing ones virginity the oldfashioned way I always understood the oldfashioned way as the hasty enthusiastic groping in the backrows of cinemas and the backseats of cars. Granted, that doesn't necessarily incorporate the object of attention belonging to the other sex, but I don't think that was his point at all.

[blackjack60]

By his remark about losing ones virginity the old fashioned way I always understood the old fashioned way as the hasty enthusiastic groping in the backrows of cinemas and the backseats of cars.

IIRC, the context had something to with boarding schools, and the old-fashioned way of losing one's virginity at an all-boys English public school is clear. But then again, according to Lycett, Fleming lost his virginity in a cinema (and adapted the experience for TSWLM) so perhaps you're right. In any case I agree in the main--anyone who's read Fleming's biographies and his novels knows that this was a man with a large sexual appetite for women. There's no real evidence of homosexuality in his life or fiction. Fleming was a sexually open man, and wouldn't have been closeted. The Bond novels certainly have homosocial elements, but homosociality is entirely different from homsexuality and practically all straight men engage in it anyway. It's also true that Fleming isn't ashamed to admire a man's "splendid" physique (as in the case of Red Grant or the swimmers in Thunderball). But that is less evidence of supposed gayness than of a descriptive writer who disliked beating around the bush in matters of the body. Fleming wasn't a prude--were he gay, you'd have clearly known it.

[DamnCoffee]

^^ Agreed

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]I

[Judo chop]

There is only one man whose opinion I would take to heart on the matter.

Edward Fox.

[Bryce (003)]

Hmmm...

Worldly, well dressed, particular tastes, lived large, charming, educated...

Yup...He was flaming...I'm sorry..

FLEMING!

*looks in mirror contemplating own lifestyle*

Awww Crap.