220 replies to this topic

[Publius]

Where was the fun?

I've come to realize "fun" is a loaded and useless term. It seems people use it to imply that a particular style, lighthearted escapism, is just plain better than other approaches. I enjoyed and was entertained by The Dark Knight far more than Batman & Robin, like I enjoyed and was entertained by Casino Royale far more than Die Another Day. I guess you could say I find "fun" as it's usually used to actually be quite boring.

[Harmsway]

I've come to realize "fun" is a loaded and useless term. It seems people use it to imply that a particular style, lighthearted escapism, is just plain better than other approaches. I enjoyed and was entertained by The Dark Knight far more than Batman & Robin, like I enjoyed and was entertained by Casino Royale far more than Die Another Day. I guess you could say I find "fun" as it's usually used to actually be quite boring.

Well said. What matters is whether or not a film is engaging, not whether or not it is "fun."

[Skudor]

I've come to realize "fun" is a loaded and useless term. It seems people use it to imply that a particular style, lighthearted escapism, is just plain better than other approaches. I enjoyed and was entertained by The Dark Knight far more than Batman & Robin, like I enjoyed and was entertained by Casino Royale far more than Die Another Day. I guess you could say I find "fun" as it's usually used to actually be quite boring.

Quite right, sir. What matters is whether a film is engaging, not whether or not it is "fun."

Surely that's in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes we want something deep and engaging that might even leave us pensive or even a little sad. Sometimes we want to sit back, turn our brains off and be entertained and leave the cinema a little happier.

[mario007]

I equate fun with entertainment value, not the sillness you are implying publius. I also hated DAD's 'saved by the bell', 'ice plance', 'cgi wave'stuff ... but you came out of that movie entertained ... not depressed! I guess a lot of blame falls on TDK third act! Also, the story got very contived and convoluted at the end. I am afraid, QOS might loose its footing in the climax as well, unless Haggis had done fleming proud.

[jaguar007]

Comparing Batman and Bond in the US market is quite different than the international market. If you take out US figures of both franchises, Bond clearly wins. In 89 when Batman was the #1 film in the US and LTK basically flopped, Batman only took in about 40million more than LTK (which is seen as a flop) in the international market

Batman(89) $160million
LTK (89)$121million

Batman Forever (95) $152million
GoldenEye (95) $245million

Batman & Robin (97) $130million
Tomorrow Never Dies (97) $207million

Batman Begins (05)$166million
Casino Royale (06) $426million

If we look at the US numbers only, it is quite a different story. The point is that in 89 Batman was just as big as TDK is right now. Batman BLEW LTK away in 89, but most of it came from the US market. LTK, for being the least successful Bond movie in the franchise, held its own fairly well in the international market against Batman.

QoS will certainly be a bigger hit than LTK and will probably stay ahead of TDK in the international market, but TDKs US take could be so big that QOS international take might not be enough to put it ahead of TDK. We should know the answer early next year.

[Harmsway]

I equate fun with entertainment value, not the sillness you are implying publius. I also hated DAD's 'saved by the bell', 'ice plance', 'cgi wave'stuff ... but you came out of that movie entertained ... not depressed! I guess a lot of blame falls on TDK third act!

Well, THE DARK KNIGHT is something of a tragedy. And that's in keeping with the Batman character. A lot of his comic stories have that melancholy aspect to them, and many of them are even darker than THE DARK KNIGHT ever was.

I am afraid, QOS might loose its footing in the climax as well, unless Haggis had done fleming proud.

Fleming wrote some depressing stories, too. CR, OHMSS, YOLT... heck, OHMSS ends with the equivalent of a punch in the stomach.

[Publius]

but you came out of that movie entertained ... not depressed!

That's my point. I didn't come out of that movie entertained so much as I was embarrassed and offended. And I have come out of many dark movies, even something like Se7en, very much entertained. It's weird to say Se7en was "fun," but not so to say it was enjoyable, which is what I'm talking about when I say the term "fun" is loaded and thus useless.

[Skudor]

Comparing Batman and Bond in the US market is quite different than the international market. If you take out US figures of both franchises, Bond clearly wins. In 89 when Batman was the #1 film in the US and LTK basically flopped, Batman only took in about 40million more than LTK (which is seen as a flop) in the international market

Batman(89) $160million
LTK (89)$121million

Batman Forever (95) $152million
GoldenEye (95) $245million

Batman & Robin (97) $130million
Tomorrow Never Dies (97) $207million

Batman Begins (05)$166million
Casino Royale (06) $426million

If we look at the US numbers only, it is quite a different story. The point is that in 89 Batman was just as big as TDK is right now. Batman BLEW LTK away in 89, but most of it came from the US market. LTK, for being the least successful Bond movie in the franchise, held its own fairly well in the international market against Batman.

QoS will certainly be a bigger hit than LTK and will probably stay ahead of TDK in the international market, but TDKs US take could be so big that QOS international take might not be enough to put it ahead of TDK. We should know the answer early next year.

Good points. I suspect that THE DARK KNIGHT will break the mold internationally, though. Sure, it will take a lot to beat CASINO ROYALE (THE DARK KNIGHT needs to triple BATMAN BEGINS - surely a pretty tall order) but I wouldn't discount the possibility.

[Sriram619]

are those numbers for total sales or opening weekand because didnt batman begins make way more total sale wise ?

[Skudor]

are those numbers for total sales or opening weekand because didnt batman begins make way more total sale wise ?

No - only in the US. Bond generally has a much wider appeal accross the world.

The worldwide totals for BATMAN BEGINS and CASINO ROYALE were as follows:

BATMAN BEGINS (2005):
Domestic: $205,343,774 55.2%
+ Foreign: $166,510,009 44.8%
= Worldwide: $371,853,783

CASINO ROYALE (2006)
Domestic: $167,445,960 28.2%
+ Foreign: $426,793,106 71.8%
= Worldwide: $594,239,066

THE DARK KNIGHT has already taken $188 million in the US and $41 internationally (without the film having opened in most of Europe).

[Publius]

THE DARK KNIGHT has already taken $188 million in the US and $41 internationally (without the film having opened in most of Europe).

I guess the only thing one can say to that is... mamma mia!

[JackWade]

THE DARK KNIGHT is up to $203.7 million in the US, making it the biggest five-day gross in movie history (actually, it's already the biggest seven-day gross in history despite being out for only five days). International figures haven't been updated since the weekend, so that will just add on. As of now, without updated international numbers, THE DARK KNIGHT is at $245 million, on pace to possibly (more like probably) be one of the five highest grossing films of all-time.

If people think THE DARK KNIGHT is going to do BEGINS-like numbers internationally, they're mistaken. While I don't think it will be as successful internationally as it has been in the States, it will still be a noticeable improvement upon BEGINS' numbers.

Sorry QUANTUM but it looks like Batman is going to be king this year.

Edited by JackWade, 24 July 2008 - 01:57 AM.

[Sriram619]

wow the dark knight is already up to 203.6 million that is impressive Quantum of solace well do quite well as expected but not as good as casino royale but who knows.... but it does seem like the champ of the year will go to Dark knight

[Skudor]

wow the dark knight is already up to 203.6 million that is impressive Quantum of solace well do quite well as expected but not as good as casino royale but who knows.... but it does seem like the champ of the year will go to Dark knight

Don't forget about the little wizard boy at the end of the year. He tends to rake it in.

[tdalton]

wow the dark knight is already up to 203.6 million that is impressive Quantum of solace well do quite well as expected but not as good as casino royale but who knows.... but it does seem like the champ of the year will go to Dark knight

Don't forget about the little wizard boy at the end of the year. He tends to rake it in.

Agreed. I think that at the end of the year, the best that QUANTUM OF SOLACE could do would be to place fourth behind Harry Potter, Batman, and Indiana Jones.

[Publius]

Agreed. I think that at the end of the year, the best that QUANTUM OF SOLACE could do would be to place fourth behind Harry Potter, Batman, and Indiana Jones.

Which is par for the course for Bond movies. Goldeneye and TND were fourth place worldwide. TWINE was eighth. DAD was sixth. CR was fourth.

[Emma]

For Quantum of Solace to even come close to achieving a box-office similar to 'The Dark Knight' I think it would need the public hype 'The Dark Knight' had. While Quantum is just as big as an event to me as 'The Dark knight' was, I have a feeling weekly blogs from Quantum crew isn't going to hype the fans like half-year long viral marketing campaign that 'the Dark Knight' had.

Or Heath Ledger's death.

By the way could the film success have to do with the fact that the film features a weirdo/psycho? I never got the appeal of 'Pirates of the Carribean either (a film I walked out on) and chalked the films success up to Johnny Depp's perfomance.

[sark]

For Quantum of Solace to even come close to achieving a box-office similar to 'The Dark Knight' I think it would need the public hype 'The Dark Knight' had. While Quantum is just as big as an event to me as 'The Dark knight' was, I have a feeling weekly blogs from Quantum crew isn't going to hype the fans like half-year long viral marketing campaign that 'the Dark Knight' had.

Or Heath Ledger's death.

I don't think the effect of that can be easily over-estimated. In my mind, our only hope for QoS to beat TDK (at least in the US, worldwide estimates are much closer) is for Craig to bite the dust.

But I doubt anyone wants that merely so Bond can "win" this year.

[jaguar007]

wow the dark knight is already up to 203.6 million that is impressive Quantum of solace well do quite well as expected but not as good as casino royale but who knows.... but it does seem like the champ of the year will go to Dark knight

Don't forget about the little wizard boy at the end of the year. He tends to rake it in.

Oh, and don't forget, we still have Disaster Movie to be released!

[Emma]

In my mind, our only hope for QoS to beat TDK (at least in the US, worldwide estimates are much closer) is for Craig to bite the dust.

But I doubt anyone wants that merely so Bond can "win" this year.

I didn't want to post that, I thought that it would be in poor taste and bad karma. I hope DC lives a long healthy life.

[blueman]

Just saw The Incredible Hulk, and IMHO it's the film TDK wants to be but isn't: great leading man, great love story, fairly lean-and-mean main plotline but with lots of gratuitous action tossed in. I was moved at Banner/Hulk's plight like I wanted to be at Wayne/Batman's - but wasn't, and I had tons more fun and excitement like I wanted from TDK but also didn't get (blow up the Gothamites already, they don't need Batman's moral leadership so screw 'em). I'm kinda shocked it's as good as it is. Sometimes, being a solid B-movie beats being an effed up A-film. Minority opinion I'm sure, but TIH smash good, and for my money was the better film.

Back to heaping praise on whatever.

Oh, one nit: Abomination's head was way too small for his hugely grotesque body.

Edited by blueman, 31 July 2008 - 03:53 AM.

[Mister E]

I was. I was emotionally wiped at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT, and loved the film for it.

I think someone is exagerrating.

[Harmsway]

I think someone is exagerrating.

I'm not. THE DARK KNIGHT did hit me pretty hard. I understand that it doesn't have that effect on everyone, but it did on me.

[Mister E]

I think someone is exagerrating.

I'm not. THE DARK KNIGHT did hit me pretty hard. I understand that it doesn't have that effect on everyone, but it did on me.

I admit the film got to me in the sense that I sort of have some of the Joker's believes or lack thereof.

[Publius]

Man, this film is relentless in breaking records. At the pace it's going, $450-500 million in the US and Canada ALONE is very realistic. I really think we're looking at a $750-800 million worldwide gross for TDK, which is unfortunately out of Bond's reach.

[deth]

"and heeerre... weee... .... .. go!" *plunges down massive rollercoaster* twas great.

[Mike00spy]

Well, one way to judge the impact of Ledger's death will be to look at the non- US box office. It looks like TDK is going to Take Begins's gross and multiply it by 2.5 -- let's see if the international gross has the same increase (which would mean 415 million)

[DamnCoffee]

I think someone is exagerrating.

I'm not. THE DARK KNIGHT did hit me pretty hard. I understand that it doesn't have that effect on everyone, but it did on me.

You're not alone. Seeing Heath as the Joker, especially in his final scene made me quite sad. I really didn't want it to end at all. In fact I was the last one out of the cinema I stayed for the dedication, I actually said "Thank You Heath" and left the cinema, I know it sounds quite stupid, but I just had the urge to say it.

[DR76]

Just saw The Incredible Hulk, and IMHO it's the film TDK wants to be but isn't: great leading man, great love story, fairly lean-and-mean main plotline but with lots of gratuitous action tossed in. I was moved at Banner/Hulk's plight like I wanted to be at Wayne/Batman's - but wasn't, and I had tons more fun and excitement like I wanted from TDK but also didn't get (blow up the Gothamites already, they don't need Batman's moral leadership so screw 'em). I'm kinda shocked it's as good as it is. Sometimes, being a solid B-movie beats being an effed up A-film. Minority opinion I'm sure, but TIH smash good, and for my money was the better film.

I saw THE INCREDIBLE HULK. And to be honest, I thought it suffered from the same flaw as THE DARK KNIGHT - a very unimpressive ending.

[deth]

Just saw The Incredible Hulk, and IMHO it's the film TDK wants to be but isn't: great leading man, great love story, fairly lean-and-mean main plotline but with lots of gratuitous action tossed in. I was moved at Banner/Hulk's plight like I wanted to be at Wayne/Batman's - but wasn't, and I had tons more fun and excitement like I wanted from TDK but also didn't get (blow up the Gothamites already, they don't need Batman's moral leadership so screw 'em). I'm kinda shocked it's as good as it is. Sometimes, being a solid B-movie beats being an effed up A-film. Minority opinion I'm sure, but TIH smash good, and for my money was the better film.

I saw THE INCREDIBLE HULK. And to be honest, I thought it suffered from the same flaw as THE DARK KNIGHT - a very unimpressive ending.

whaaaaat?? THe ending for Hulk was the Best part of the movie!