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Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith


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Poll: What do you think of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith?

What do you think of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith?

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#991 Harmsway

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 09:12 PM

Episode III is going to be quite the controversial film. After having a point explained to me, I now understand that Episode III really pulls out the rug from what has long been stated about some crucial points of the prequel trilogy. The frustrating thing is that the final cut of the film never comes out and states this big revelation - it's there, but it's more of a "read between the lines" thing, and I'm sure multitudes won't pick up on it and many others will debate whether it actually exists at all.

So for you spoiler junkies, like myself:

/spoiler.gif
The Emperor actually created Anakin Skywalker through the force - it really wasn't some wierd virgin birth. Skywalker was created to be a Sith. In the final cut of the film, this revelation is reduced to Palpatine explaining he knows how to manipulate midichlorians to create and extend life.

Also, in the original draft of the film, Palpatine told Anakin that Dooku had paid the tusken raiders to kill his mother before Anakin fights Dooku (obviously to enrage him). Obviously, the death of Shmi Skywalker was at the hands of Palpatine.

This revelation also makes sense of the character of Aurra Sing, who was edited into the DVD release of Episode I by Lucas for an unknown reason (she's a white-skinned lady watching Anaking during the pod-race). She apparently is one of the Emperor's spies on Anakin. Also look at the ceiling in Anakin's room - it is decorated in the black/red pattern that marks the face of Darth Maul (whether it was merely an in-joke or of Lucas' intent is unclear). It's clear he was created to be a Sith!

I think this revelation is something akin to the "Luke, I am your father" of Empire - and unfortunately, I think it will go missed by many. I tend to like it, but I'm sure it will cause controversy.
/gen_line.gif


#992 hrabb04

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 02:30 PM

The big spoilers you referred to were more concrete in early versions of the script. Lucas, however, changed his mind or chickened out. One of the two.

#993 Harmsway

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:41 PM

The big spoilers you referred to were more concrete in early versions of the script.  Lucas, however, changed his mind or chickened out.  One of the two.

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We don't know for sure, at this point, but the inference is still there if you want to take it. I like it, so I'm going to go with that, because I think it makes the ideas presented in the first two prequels infinitely more interesting. It certainly was more concrete at an earlier time, as you said, and perhaps Lucas will address what his final intent with it is on the DVD commentary. Perhaps he just wanted to leave it ambiguous (which might be even better - since then we can all see what we want to see).

#994 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:05 AM

This is AICN's Moriarty's TPM review. I just had to paste it here becuase they had it inside a table 2 inches wide. it would have taken me hrs to read it! here:

I feel a great disturbance in the Force tonight.

I have been sitting here in front of this computer screen for the last hour now, talking to my best friend in the world, trying to give voice to the wildly conflicted feelings I have about STAR WARS EPISODE I - THE PHANTOM MENACE. In the end, the only thing I have as a critic is my honesty, and so I am going to try to be as direct and clear in my feelings on the film as possible. If this means there are going to be spoilers, then so be it. If this means I ramble a bit and jump from subject to subject, so be it. This is not just any review. This is the review I've waited 16 years to write, so I'm throwing all conventional rules out the window.

This afternoon, Lucasfilm showed TPM at the Mann's National in Westwood. By the way, before I get started, let me extend my congratulations to Mann's and Lucas for working out the situation with the Chinese and the Village. Putting the fans ahead of whatever concerns either party might have had was the right thing to do, and you will be rewarded for your efforts. Seeing it at the National was nice, especially since I was literally the first person to be let inside. Imagine seeing TPM on opening day, being the first person inside, getting exactly the seat you wanted, having no line at the concession stand, and seeing a pristine print. That was the experience I had today, and it definitely put me in the right mood to enjoy the film without any of the hassle and baggage of what we're all going to have to go through at regular theaters.

When 5:30 came and the lights went down, I could feel my heart race. The 20th Century Fox logo was first, followed by the Lucasfilm Ltd. logo, accompanied by the familiar Fox fanfare. When the simply blue letters appeared -- "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." -- I stopped breathing. And then, just like that, the simple yellow STAR WARS appeared, followed by the opening scroll, and we were off.

How to describe the impressions that rolled over me as the opening of the film unfolded... I was underwhelmed by the Niemoudians, to say the least. They're weak villains, weak characters, and visually uninteresting. They're also hard to understand at times due to their strange vaguely Oriental (I know that's not a PC term, but neither is the accent, folks) way of speaking. On the other hand, I was fascinated by the Jedi from the moment they appeared onscreen. Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor both make strong impressions at first, and that initial shot of the two of them pushing back the hoods of their cloaks is great, revealing the two faces we're dying to see, really launching us into the story. No time is wasted before the action begins. There's a betrayal, a trap, and the Jedi spring into action, lightsabers flashing. Lucas uses all sorts of trickery to give the Jedi the power that we've always imagined they would have, and it works. They're both all-powerful and very human.

Human is a key word when discussing THE PHANTOM MENACE, or any STAR WARS film for that matter. It is the human story that has always drawn us through the films, made us care so deeply about them, and on paper, this film has a story that easily fits into the universe Lucas created. Onscreen, though, so much of the film has been handed over to alien creatures that we are left floundering, trying to figure out who to latch onto as viewers. Even now, having seen the film, I would be hardpressed to tell you who the film is about. It's definitely not Obi-Wan's story. I don't think it's Anakin's story. Queen Amidala is kept too much of an enigma for it to be her story. So who does that leave? What other major human character is there for us to cheer?

That's not to say that I don't like some of the alien characters. Watto is a particular standout, a funny, shady little guy with personality to spare. Boss Nass is very funny, and R2-D2 registers well in his brief screen time. But there's one alien who really stands at the center of the film, and a large part of what you personally feel about the film will be centered on your feelings about Jar Jar Binks.

*Sigh* What do you do with a problem named Jar Jar? I have defended the character in theory since the day I first read the script, and I still think he works in terms of story mechanics. It's important that Obi-Wan be taught the value of seeimingly worthless creatures by Jar Jar. Qui-Gon is well aware of what he's doing when he brings Jar Jar along. The problem I have with the execution of the character can be narrowed down to one particular element of how he was handled: his voice. Jar Jar is simply impossible to understand at many key moments in the film. Having read the script, the book, the comic, etc., I was well aware of what Jar Jar was saying in each scene, and even I had a hard time following him. Mr. Furious, who was my host for tonight's screening, missed at least half of what Jar Jar said, including some fairly important exposition. This isn't just an aesthetic choice I disagree with, either. This is about simple communication. Jar Jar doesn't work in communicating to the audience, and it hurts the film. In addition, Jar Jar's just not that funny. There's not one joke with him that even approaches the comic perfection of the first film. If there had been even one line as good as "Boring conversation anyway" in this film, it would have helped engage the crowd more. Without a rogue to say those things, we're left with a group of main characters that may simply be too bland and good to hold our full interest for two hours.

Let's talk about some positives now. I think this is quite simply one of the most startling visual realizations of a fantasy world ever brought to the screen. There are long stretches of the film that are filled with sights that are jawdropping. There's a marvelous amount of visual imagination on display here. The podrace sequence is everything you hope it will be, fast, frenetic, and involving. Coruscant is ravishing, overbusy, filled to the breaking point with design detail. Otoh Gunga is a place I would pay $8 just to visit again.

There are a few effects here and there, particularly from the makeup department, that are simply not acceptable on any level, but one gets the feeling that George counted on the overload factor to get past those moments. Speaking of George, one of the first things someone asked me about this film was, "How did George do? How is he now as a director?" I think he did all rght. He's done his homework regarding special effects, but he forgot to brush up on dealing with actors, and it shows. The cast is adrift in this film in many ways, left to fight it out between different acting styles, different accents, and even different levels of emotional reality. Shmi Skywalker, played with quiet dignity by Pernilla August, is wonderful, and she brings out the best in Jake Lloyd's Anakin. And how is the much maligned Mr. Lloyd? Sporadically good, sporadically bad. He's a child, though, and any failings in his performance have to be pinned on Lucas squarely. In a scene involving a number of Anakin's friends, the children all look lost, standing around like they can't wait to run out of frame. There are many moments where adults find themselves in the same predicament, lost as to what to do or how to inhabit these fabulous spaces they find themselves in. It's disconcerting to have a cast this good and never have them really click as an ensemble. It's not for lack of trying, though. Neeson and McGregor work well together, Ian McDiarmid is very good as both Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious, and even Terrence Stamp makes the most of his brief moment as Chancellor Vallorum. Still, you've got Captain Panaka, played without even a hint of charisma by the bland Hugh Quarshie, as well as characters like Sio Bibble and Ric Olie who add absolutely no life to the proceedings.

Of all the characters in the film, though, one has been embraced by fans around the world already, and I think Lucas is going to kick himself in hindsight. Who would have thought in conception that Darth Sidious' pit bull Darth Maul would be so beloved? Not Lucas, based on the final fate of the Sith Apprentice. He's in so little of the film that it's really surprising when he goes into full attack mode at the end of the movie.

When he does, though, the movie finally becomes, for one glorious ten minute stretch, exactly what I had hoped it would be. The lightsaber battle between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul is spectacular, kinetic, and faster than you can follow. Hats off to Ray Park for not just his energetic duelling work, but for the real malice he brings to one of my favorite beats, as he waits for a power shield to open so he can continue his epic duel. As he waits, Maul paces, eyes fixed on Qui-Gon, and there's such deadly malice in that look that I believed for a moment, wholeheartedly.

And maybe, in the end, that's why this review feels so mixed from me. I never found myself completely absorbed. There's parts of the film that left me resolutely on the outside looking in. Although it's the big climax of the movie, the Trade Federation Blockade is never a very compelling threat. When I pointed out to Mr. Furious that the whole blockade and invasion was simply to leverage Palpatine into the Supreme Chancellor's seat, nothing more than an elaborate subterfuge, Furious pointed out to me that even if that was true (it wasn't clear to him in the movie), it doesn't really give you anything to root. Yes, Anakin flies his Naboo fighter for the first time. Yes, Jar Jar accidentally stumbles into heroism. But these payoffs don't deliver any real charge. There's no kick to it all. Trust me... there's no shot that will send a surge of energy through you like the final destruction of the Death Star. There's never a goal that focused. Of course, there wasn't in EMPIRE either, but that had the cliffhanger structure to involve us, keep us drawn in. This film is meant to stand alone, despite all the clues it drops for the remainder of this trilogy, and its conclusion just feels... anticlimactic.

Lucas also made some very strange editing choices as he moved from script to screen. He cut Bail Organa completely, which seems a shame since Organa reckons to figure so prominently later. He cut a really wonderful early scene involving Jar Jar, the Jedi, their sub, and a waterfall, and he cut one moment I thought was absolutely critical to the character of Anakin, in which he fought a Rodian on the street, only to be lectured by Qui-Gon about giving in to anger. I thought this laid the groundwork for who Anakin is later, and without it there are no indications of Anakin's later fall in this film. Maybe that's on purpose. I'm sure George had his reasons. Still, it would have been nice to plant the seed, at least.

Don't let any of this deter you from opening day, STAR WARS fans, as if anything could. You will be rewarded with remarkable sights and sounds in this film, and you will be introduced to some spectacular new faces and places. This is a STAR WARS film, for better and for worse. George's directorial jitters may leave this film flawed in many important ways, but his imagination makes up for it in others. This film will not be embraced universally, and I expect there will be many who rank it lower than JEDI in the overall series so far. Personally, I thought it works better as a complete piece than JEDI, although it shares many of that film's weaknesses. I also strongly suspect that I had my STAR WARS experience at ages 7, 10, and 13, and that this first new film is really for someone who is that age now. I'm not suggesting that you pretend you're that age in the theater... that would be preposterous. Lucas made the film he wanted to make, and you have to judge it based on who you are right now.

Clear your mind of all the clutter of the last three years before you walk into the theater. Forget all you've read or heard. Watch this with unbiased eyes. Even if you manage to do that, I promise that some of you will love this film and some of you will still hate it. I expect this will be the most hotly debated film of recent memory, with the people who hate it weighing in very vocally and in the strongest possible terms. I heard someone call it an "abomination" as we left, and someone else suggested finding and burning the negative. Me, I'm somewhere in the middle. I think it's better than JEDI, but it's not A NEW HOPE and it's certainly no EMPIRE. I also wouldn't say it's my favorite film of the year so far by any means. I'd put THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT, IRON GIANT, and ELECTION way ahead of it without hesitating.

On the other hand, I heard a little boy who couldn't have been more than seven years old ask his mother a question as we were leaving the theater. Even though all the credits had rolled, he kept craning his head to look back at the screen with these big saucer eyes. Just before we slipped out the door, he glanced at his mom and said, "How do they do that?"

"Do what, honey?"

"Make that. How did they make all that?" The sound in his voice and the look in his eye told me that he had been rocked by the experience, blindsided, and it took me back to that afternoon in 1977 when I stumbled out of my first viewing of the first film, only to stare at the movie poster and ask my mother who made films. When she told me it was the director, I decided that's what I wanted to do. Maybe another filmmaker was born tonight. Maybe one day he'll show us things we can't imagine. If that's the case, then God bless George Lucas for returning to us. Now that the warm-up is out of the way, let's get busy with Episode II. Until then...

#995 The Dove

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:16 PM

Exactly one week to go before Revenge of the Sith hits theaters!! Can't wait!! :)

#996 zencat

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:30 PM

This is AICN's Moriarty's TPM review. I just had to paste it here becuase they had it inside a table 2 inches wide. it would have taken me hrs to read it! here:

View Post


Why do we have a TPM review in a thread about ROTS?

But maybe it's in answer to a question. I haven't been following the track of this thread or commenting because...

I've seen ROTS about six times now -- but I signed a non-disclosure agreement so I can't say a peep until the 19th. :)

#997 The Dove

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:33 PM

Can you at least say whether you liked it Zencat? Or is that not permitted? :)

#998 Qwerty

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:20 PM

Exactly one week to go before Revenge of the Sith hits theaters!! Can't wait!!  :)

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Ditto. This is going to be great.

#999 Johnboy007

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 10:18 PM

He's seen it six times apparently, so it can't be THAT bad.

Our school tv show showed some clips during homeroom this morning, and EVERYONE was glued to the TV. This film has serious potential of drawing a lot of people that you wont expect. Don't underestimate this movie's drawing power.

#1000 Genrewriter

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 02:02 AM

I'm really getting psyched up for this film. No real huge expectations (considering ticket prices these days it pays to be mellow), just hoping for a fun ride.

#1001 Triton

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 02:57 AM

I've seen ROTS about six times now -- but I signed a non-disclosure agreement so I can't say a peep until the 19th. :)

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Rub it in zencat! :) I guess I will take the "I've seen ROTS six times now" as an endorsement.

#1002 Blofeld's Cat

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 03:01 AM

At least zencat can now get over it all and get on with life. :)

#1003 Qwerty

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 03:36 AM

It's his tricky way of saying it's that good. :)

#1004 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 05:48 AM

This is AICN's Moriarty's TPM review. I just had to paste it here becuase they had it inside a table 2 inches wide. it would have taken me hrs to read it! here:

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Why do we have a TPM review in a thread about ROTS?


View Post


Becuz I felt like pasting it in! :)

And so I could read it in proper form. :)

#1005 Turn

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 12:57 PM

I'm really getting psyched up for this film.  No real huge expectations (considering ticket prices these days it pays to be mellow), just hoping for a fun ride.

View Post

While not a huge Star Wars fan, I'm getting kind of pumped for all this myself. The hype is actually kind of fun even if it would be nice to watch television without getting pummeled with a different Star Wars commercial two or three times a break. :)

The Star Wars franchise is one of those rare cases where I think the attention should be there opposed to some other promos like Miss Congeniality 2 or Something Like Love, which seemed to show up everywhere.

#1006 Loomis

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 02:31 PM

While not a huge Star Wars fan, I'm getting kind of pumped for all this myself. The hype is actually kind of fun even if it would be nice to watch television without getting pummeled with a different Star Wars commercial two or three times a break. :)

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The hype is beginning to annoy me, along with Harry Knowlesish "reviews" like:

REVENGE OF THE SITH is the most perfect ****ing film ever made by the hand of man. No words can express how ****ing cool it is, how perfectly Lucas integrates it with the other five episodes. You cannot possibly have the slightest understanding of the power of this masterpiece unless, like me, you saw the first one in 1977 (yes, the one with Han firing first, and the one that used to be called just STAR WARS rather than STAR WARS EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE). Chewie's appearance in SITH just brought tears to my eyes, and the way Tarkin was handled - well, folks, I nearly came. Straight after seeing SITH I drove home in a daze, my hands were shaking, and I watched my bootleg DVDs of the original trilogy, and then dived straight into my ultra-rare Turkish 16mm prints of TPM and AOTC which both have exactly four seconds of unseen footage and these really cool credits in some weird-*** Middle Eastern font or something, and I finally fell asleep reading my autographed by Lucas copy of the script for the pilot of the proposed Boba Fett TV show (which I assure you will KICK MAJOR *** if it gets made), and I'll review SITH again once I've seen it two or three more times on the big screen, which should be doable over the next 36 hours....

Agreed that there are much worse films out there, though, Turn.

#1007 SnakeEyes

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 03:11 PM

That review is a masterpeice. Should seriously be considered for review of the year.

I love the tarkin line, that certainly brought tears to my eyes :)

#1008 General A. Ourumov

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 07:52 PM

Haha, yes that review was rather amusing.

But what almost brought tears to my eyes was finding out I've got VIP tickets to see the film one day early..

Never been more excited in my life..

#1009 Stephenson

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 09:42 PM

Just picked up my tickets for a showing on Tuesday that is being held for a charity here in Guate!

#1010 Donovan

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 12:57 AM

I remember Harry Knowles claiming to watch a rough cut of "Attack of the Clones" and saying how awesome THAT was.

Uh-huh.

My guess is the way Tarkin is handled is they got the rights to use his (Peter Cushing's) likeness from an older film and CGI-ed his face in there. If that gets you sexually excited maybe you need to examine where you are with your life.

#1011 Loomis

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 01:00 AM

Just in case anyone thought otherwise, I made that review up, but I've read pieces on AICN and elsewhere that are frighteningly similar.

#1012 Stephenson

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 07:37 PM

I think Harry actually said he cried in his review....

#1013 Gri007

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:15 AM

Pretty good title. Definitely the better of the 3 prequels. BTW, not being  a very big SW fan I'm not sure but was Revenge of the Jedi the original title for Return?
It's just that I saw some posters with it on and it seemed odd to me.

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Yeah. George Lucas decided to call it Revenge of the Jedi, but then decided that Jedi's don't have revenge.

:)

#1014 Gri007

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:18 AM

:) It is interestin to note the titles of the new trilogy to the old trilogy.

They have the same amount of words in

The Phantom Menace + A New Hope (3 words)

Attack Of The Clones + The Empire Strikes Back (4 words)

Revenge Of The Sith + Return Of The Jedi (4 words)

Was it done like this or is it just a coincidence :)

#1015 Gri007

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:24 AM

I've listened to most of the soundtrack (just two or three more tracks to get to) and I can already say that my favorite tracks so far are " Grevious and the Droids" and " Palpatine's Teachings" Very dark and sinister!!

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Anakin vs Obi Wan is good. there is a theme in there which sounds very familiar to OHMSS. You think

#1016 clinkeroo

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 08:12 PM

As I type this, I'm programming my theater's times for Thursday. Very excited, it's always great when that first, truly busy summer film hits. :)

#1017 The Dove

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 08:20 PM

:) It is interestin to note the titles  of the new trilogy to the old trilogy.

They have the same amount of words in

The Phantom Menace + A New Hope (3 words)

Attack Of The Clones + The Empire Strikes Back (4 words)

Revenge Of The Sith + Return Of The Jedi (4 words)

Was it done like this or is it just  a coincidence :)

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Here's another coincidence Gri007: All the Star Wars films, except for 2 (one in each set of trilogies) have been released a Bond year (not that I really needed to point this out) Episode IV- A New Hope, The Spy Who Loved Me- 1977, Empire Strikes Back 1980, For Your Eyes Only- 1981, Return of the Jedi, Octopussy 1983, Episode I- Phantom Menace, The World is Not Enough 1999, Episode II-Attack of the Clones, Die Another Day 2002 and Episode III: Revenge of the Sith 2005, Casino Royale- 2006

#1018 SPECTRE ASSASSIN

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:52 PM

I'm really going to dread working this weekend at the AMC, because believe the theater is going to be packed as hell. But in one way it's going to be exciting. It's like Christmas, so much anticipation is in this film, it's fun.

#1019 hrabb04

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:16 PM

I notice a bunch of negative reviews are coming in now from the can't get laid fanboy geeks. I hate these people with a passion. Not sure which group is worse, the Star Wars fanboys or the Star Trek ones.

#1020 Johnboy007

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:42 PM

It has a very good IMDb rating so far; an 8.1. That puts it within their top 250 between 99-123. That's not too bad. Of course, it has relatively few votes.

Still, promising.