255 replies to this topic

[ChickenStu]

I once had a gang of mates round and we were watching "Moonraker". At the point where Jaws fall in love with that girl with the pigtails and glasses (forget her name) they were all like "Ahhh man, you've got to be joking!"
I don't know if you'd call that a weak moment, but my buds weren't impressed!

[ChickenStu]

How about when George Lazenby breaks the fourth window and says "This never happened to the other fella".  Why would they ever have James Bond look straight at the audience as if this were a screwball comedy?

That just seemed very very out of place for a Bond film.

Fair point, but still it was very 60's.

[Kingdom Come]

The dubbing in a lot, though not all of the films.

[spynovelfan]

The pre-title sequence of GOLDFINGER. The first time they forgot the script, and just put something in simply for the sake of looking cool. Even one mention of the events of this sequence later on in the film would have helped, but I still think it's gimmicky - the bird, the tux - and I cannot see the wit in the pay-off line. He shocks him. Then says it's shocking. There's a thin line between clever deadpan and a weak and obvious pun - this scene leapt across that line.

[Double-Oh Agent]

The pre-title sequence of GOLDFINGER. The first time they forgot the script, and just put something in simply for the sake of looking cool. Even one mention of the events of this sequence later on in the film would have helped, but I still think it's gimmicky - the bird, the tux - and I cannot see the wit in the pay-off line. He shocks him. Then says it's shocking. There's a thin line between clever deadpan and a weak and obvious pun - this scene leapt across that line.

I don't think that's quite right. The PTS is a reworking of the beginning of the Goldfinger novel. While that part of the plot was altered to work better for the film, what remained was that Bond went to Mexico, encounters people smuggling drugs, and has a fight with a capungo.

And Felix Leiter does give a brief aside to Bond about the events of the sequence when they meet in Miami--the capungo fight in particular. He says: "You're slipping 007, letting the opposition get that close to you."

But whether you agree or not, if you feel that it is weak, that's your opinion. As for me, I like it. The one I find the weakest is Bond's fight with the Harlem thugs in the alley behind the Fillet O' Soul in Live And Let Die. There's no way the two thugs are knocked out in that fight. It's easily the lamest fight scene in the Bond series.

[Harmsway]

The pre-title sequence of GOLDFINGER. The first time they forgot the script, and just put something in simply for the sake of looking cool. Even one mention of the events of this sequence later on in the film would have helped, but I still think it's gimmicky - the bird, the tux - and I cannot see the wit in the pay-off line. He shocks him. Then says it's shocking. There's a thin line between clever deadpan and a weak and obvious pun - this scene leapt across that line.

I think GOLDFINGER's pre-title sequences is quite nice. And putting something in simply for being cool is what, IMO, the pre-title sequence is and should be all about. It was nice when the pre-title sequence was disconnected from the rest of the film, and a movie all to itself.

And the "shocking" line isn't exactly the wittiest thing, but what I love about it is more Connery's delivery. It's *perfect*. And then the slam of that door going right to the main titles is great.

All that said, I'm not sure it's the best pre-title, but it's up there. I also love FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, THUNDERBALL, and YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE (Bond dead? that's a great gimmick, even if it is extraneous) up there as well. Short and sweet ways of leading you into the film. I got less and less enthusiastic as the pre-title sequences became more and more elaborate, since I prefer them to have some simplicity.

[Harmsway]

[quote name='ChickenStu' date='27 December 2005 - 16:17'][quote name='rnblover1971' date='19 October 2005 - 05:43']How about when George Lazenby breaks the fourth window and says "This never happened to the other fella".

[spynovelfan]

The pre-title sequence of GOLDFINGER. The first time they forgot the script, and just put something in simply for the sake of looking cool. Even one mention of the events of this sequence later on in the film would have helped, but I still think it's gimmicky - the bird, the tux - and I cannot see the wit in the pay-off line. He shocks him. Then says it's shocking. There's a thin line between clever deadpan and a weak and obvious pun - this scene leapt across that line.

I don't think that's quite right. The PTS is a reworking of the beginning of the Goldfinger novel. While that part of the plot was altered to work better for the film, what remained was that Bond went to Mexico, encounters people smuggling drugs, and has a fight with a capungo.

And Felix Leiter does give a brief aside to Bond about the events of the sequence when they meet in Miami--the capungo fight in particular. He says: "You're slipping 007, letting the opposition get that close to you."

Yes, I thought someone might make those points. Fair enough, Felix mentions it. And yes, it's based on the novel. Frankly, I found it lame there, too. Bond has nothing to do, gets caught up in some odd freelance mission cracking Dupont's really tricky problem of figuring out what a child could have told him - and the guy involved just so happens to be SMERSH's treasurer! My oh my, what a coincidence! I love Fleming, but these kind of plot things can be infuriating. Ditto YOLT - fantastic, but surely he could have thought of a better way to come round to this enormous coinkydink of the Swiss chap he's after just so happening to be that Blofeld.

Thing is, Fleming was such a great writer he could be writing about a knitting contest and you'd still be wanting to know what happened next. The film's PTS takes the bare bones of the flashbacked mission at the start of the book and just shoves it in for no purpose at all. If you think they *should* be irrelevant to the rest of the film, fine - I think it's a missed opportunity, because you can really set things up. FRWL's pretitle sequence was totally gimmicky and 'cool'. Totally implausible, too - why would they need the Bond mask to train, and if they had it why not just send Grant as Bond somewhere and wreak havoc that way? But at least they used it to set something up. If it had been some other random terrorist group training to kill Bond, who were then not mentioned in the film... Well, hopefully you see what I'm sayiing. It was gimmicky, self-consciously cool and implausible, but it was entertaining, thrilling, surprising - and you forgot how implausible it was becuase it set the whole film up. With GF, I just thought it was an excuse to have Bond take off his scuba stuff and show a tux and do all that stuff. When the film started, I was still interested in and thinking about the mission I'd just seen - and kind of hoping the film would tie into it.

Of course there were much weaker pre-titles later on: DAF for instance! I singled this one out because I think it set an unfortunate precedent. I think Bond films work best when they are not just a collection of cool ideas flung together. The rest of GF is a coherent film - the pretitles feel, to me anyway, like a collection of cool ideas flung into one place.

[SecretAgentFan]

The weakest moment for me is in LTK: Pam crying like a schoolgirl over Bond talking with Lupe. And then Bond, instead of walking down the stairs to Pam, jumping in the pool. I know, I know - it

[Harmsway]

The rest of GF is a coherent film - the pretitles feel, to me anyway, like a collection of cool ideas flung into one place.

Again, that was the intent. EON wanted to do a mini-movie of sorts before the movie proper actually began. And that's great, IMO.

[SecretAgentFan]

Think so, too. GF IMO is the quintessential Bond film.

[FelixLeiterCIA]

Although I don't find it to be the most cringe-inducing moment in Bond history (there are so many in the Moore era that I cannot begin to list them), the speeded-up action at the end of "Thunderball" bothers me the most because it really taints my personal favorite Connery film. Oh well...

[spynovelfan]

Think so, too. GF IMO is the quintessential Bond film.

Meaning what? I see that word used a lot in relation to this film, but what do people mean by it, exactly?

Harmsway, the intent might well have been to make a mini-movie that had no relevance to the rest of the film. I don't think the intent was a very good one! I think the James Bond of FRWL would not have had a bird on his head, a tux under his scuba suit, and so on, either.

But this is, of course, personal opinion. I simply tend to prefer films - even Bond films! - to make some sense. Sorry.

[Diabolik]

"I thought Christmas only comes once a year."  I'm all for cheesy one-liners but that one stunk like a landfill.

It's like they named the character "Christmas Jones" just so they could do that one line at the end of the film -- lame!

Also:

AVTAK - That silly robot surveillance "dog"
LTK: - The silly "winking" fish sculpture in the final shot.
DAD - The whole Moon/Graves DNA resequencing concept
DAD - The Mondonna theme "song" What the hell were they thinking???

[RJJB]

Weakest moment: Roger Moore's intro in Live and Let Die. Our first view of RM, he has a scared schoolboy expression on his face, startled that M is at his home and may catch him with the girl. Very bad first impression of the actor, definitely not displaying any essence of cool.

Edited by RJJB, 27 January 2006 - 04:33 PM.

[Harmsway]

Think so, too. GF IMO is the quintessential Bond film.

Meaning what? I see that word used a lot in relation to this film, but what do people mean by it, exactly?

Harmsway, the intent might well have been to make a mini-movie that had no relevance to the rest of the film. I don't think the intent was a very good one! I think the James Bond of FRWL would not have had a bird on his head, a tux under his scuba suit, and so on, either.

But this is, of course, personal opinion. I simply tend to prefer films - even Bond films! - to make some sense. Sorry.

I dunno - it is over-the-top, but it's also very cool. GOLDFINGER is the rise of the superhero Bond that's a little tongue-in-cheek, and you either like that or you don't, but it is what defined EON's Bond (which is what makes it quintessential, since it defined the concept of the cinematic James Bond, and is more influential than the Fleming novels). The Bond of GOLDFINGER isn't really the Bond of FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

When Bond takes the carnation out and puts it in his jacket after stripping out of the wetsuit - there's just nothing cooler (IMO, of course). The pre-title sequence, IMO anyway, is all about doing stuff for the sake of cool. I don't want it to really have to feel constrained to add up all that well.

[roboas]

an INVISIBLE car

what were they thinking? It put the cherry on top of the worst movie.

[Streetworker]

The pre-title sequence of GOLDFINGER. The first time they forgot the script, and just put something in simply for the sake of looking cool. Even one mention of the events of this sequence later on in the film would have helped, but I still think it's gimmicky - the bird, the tux - and I cannot see the wit in the pay-off line. He shocks him. Then says it's shocking. There's a thin line between clever deadpan and a weak and obvious pun - this scene leapt across that line.

It's funny, but I've always thought the pre-title sequence of Goldfinger epitomised perfectly, in less than ten minutes, 1960s pop art movie-making. It captures its era better than any other sequence I can think of offhand which, in my book, makes it not only one of the most perfect and satisfying sequences in the Bond series but in 1960s popular cinema as a whole. Oh well, each to his own, I guess...

[Santa]

Largely the PB era, with Halle Berry and the whole of DAD being the worst of the worst. What was with that stopping his own heart b***?

[Roger Moore's Bad Facelift]

The final line of dialogue in The World Is Not Enough was one of the worst moments in the Bond franchise.

I think the final dialogue in DAD was just as bad, if not worse, with all that "leave it in" nonsense.

That made me want to puke the first time I heard it.

Alright then.
What about during OP when Magda petitions Roger post-coitus for a "re-filling".
Easily just as tasteless, if not more so, then any of the above mentioned ribald quips.
Strangely, this scene always seems to get a pass by the more scrupulous members of the Bond fan community.

[tdalton]

The final line of dialogue in The World Is Not Enough was one of the worst moments in the Bond franchise.

I think the final dialogue in DAD was just as bad, if not worse, with all that "leave it in" nonsense.

That made me want to puke the first time I heard it.

Alright then.
What about during OP when Magda petitions Roger post-coitus for a "re-filling".
Easily just as tasteless, if not more so, then any of the above mentioned ribald quips.
Strangely, this scene always seems to get a pass by the more scrupulous members of the Bond fan community.

You're right, that one is equally tasteless. I think that the reason it gets overlooked in this department is that it's not as easy to recall that scene from memory since it was so long ago as it is for the scenes that were in the 2 most recent Bond films. But, that line is equally as tastless, but since the film probably doesn't get viewed as often as TWINE or DAD, it's not one of the first scenes that comes to mind when thinking of these types of things.

[RJJB]

Goldfinger's pre-title sequence does have a tie-in to the rest of the movie, though not as pronounced as others. In the conversation in the bar, Bond speaks with his contact. The conversation mentions Bond being a flight to Miami, where the main body of the film starts.

If you are looking for totally unrelated PTS, be sure to look at For You Eye Only and Octopussy. There is no realtionshop between those sequences and the rest of the movie.

And for all time low points in the PTS category, be sure to consider Live and Let Die. A new actor is being introduced and he is not even in the PTS.
And don't forget The Man with the Golden Gun. The only appearance Roger Moore makes in the PTS is as a target dummy. Actually, one of his better acting jobs....

[Qwerty]

an INVISIBLE car

what were they thinking?  It put the cherry on top of the worst movie.

My minor problem is that there was a car at all. Give it a break for Bond 22; please.

[Bon-san]

an INVISIBLE car

what were they thinking?  It put the cherry on top of the worst movie.

I've never understood the hateful reaction to the cloaking device(s). I thought the technology (which is pretty much real) was used to good dramatic effect in the film. There most certainly wasn't some car driving invisibly all over the picture.

Goldfinger's gadget-laden DB5 kicked Bondmania into high gear and ever since there has been a parade of [take your pick] A) fascinating gadgets featuring cutting edge technology; or outrageous nonsense. It's part of the Eon Bond legacy.

[Seannery]

[quote name='Bon-san' date='31 January 2006 - 21:13'][quote name='roboas' date='31 January 2006 - 03:00']an INVISIBLE car

what were they thinking?

[trumanlodge89]

one thing in regard to the GF PTS... the way in which the villian dies is foreshadowing oddjob's death, something i just picked up on on my last viewing of the film. not to mention it shows bond completing another mission and moving right on to the next one. its a way of letting us know that bond keeps working even when he's not being filmed. i donno, its very cool.

a pts with loose ties to the rest of the film is best, i think. TSWLM, GF, AVTAK, TLD and TND are the best examples. it works by itself but relates to the films.

weakest bond moment? the laser thing in MR. weak, and also lame.

[Bon-san]

Weakest moment, bar none:

After Jaws has bitten a 4 trillion pound tension cable with his metal teeth (what kind of force is he able to generate with his jaws? ), pulled off a 20 foot standing long-jump from one cable car to another (hundreds of feet above the ground) to break the world's record (what kind of force is he able to generate in his legs and glutes to move his 300+ pound frame like that? ), and survived a crash through the cable car terminal that would have killed Jason Vorhees, he brushes off a few flecks of dust and lays his eyes on....Dolly. As the sappiest, most cliche of all music cues swells in the background, he and Dolly exit scene left holding hands and smiling.

Pass the antacid.


And I like Moonraker.

[Harmsway]

The final line of dialogue in The World Is Not Enough was one of the worst moments in the Bond franchise.

I think the final dialogue in DAD was just as bad, if not worse, with all that "leave it in" nonsense.

That made me want to puke the first time I heard it.

Alright then.
What about during OP when Magda petitions Roger post-coitus for a "re-filling".
Easily just as tasteless, if not more so, then any of the above mentioned ribald quips.
Strangely, this scene always seems to get a pass by the more scrupulous members of the Bond fan community.

I hate that comment just as much. But it's also not the ending note of the film, so there's time for it to fade away. When a movie ends on a sour note, it affects how you view the film in its entirety.

[Seannery]

Weakest moment, bar none:

After Jaws has bitten a 4 trillion pound tension cable with his metal teeth (what kind of force is he able to generate with his jaws?  ), pulled off a 20 foot standing long-jump from one cable car to another (hundreds of feet above the ground) to break the world's record (what kind of force is he able to generate in his legs and glutes to move his 300+ pound frame like that?  ), and survived a crash through the cable car terminal that would have killed Jason Vorhees, he brushes off a few flecks of dust and lays his eyes on....Dolly.  As the sappiest, most cliche of all music cues swells in the background, he and Dolly exit scene left holding hands and smiling.

Pass the antacid.


And I like Moonraker.

Actually I could deal with the whole scene as just outrageous fun except for the end with Jaws and Dolly--that touch was like the one more mint scene in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. That little extra bit of sugar just blew it!

[tdalton]

I hate that comment just as much. But it's also not the ending note of the film, so there's time for it to fade away. When a movie ends on a sour note, it affects how you view the film in its entirety.

Agreed. After DAD and TWINE, the first thing that I heard people talking about was not the film itself and how good/bad everyone thought it was. What they were talking about was how awful the final line (of both films) was. I just think that they've gone a bit too far with the innuendo in the final lines of dialogue, and while the CR final line has a curse word in it whereas the ones from DAD and TWINE don't, I still think it will be less offensive than those two, or the one from Octopussy.