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Matrix Revolutions


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#121 Dmitri Mishkin

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 12:35 AM

Agreed, JackChase -- it was disappointing to watch the inferior, and vastly overdone Matrix Reloaded. Effects-wise, of course, there were brilliant visual moments to behold, and perhaps more CGI than expected. However, it seemed that the movie as a whole, and the original substance of the Matrix was diluted by an overly-generous re-use of key "trademarks", e.g. 360 degree camera swings around frozen character. Or, rapid speed-up/abrupt slow-down. rapid speed-up/abrupt slow-down. rapid speed-up/abrupt slow-down.
Or, Repetitive, repetitive, repetitive -- kick, punch, kick, punch, rotate camera, kick, punch. Continuously throughout the movie. So much so that complainers of DAD's editing need not see the newest Matrix movies on this basis (!).

It just seemed that many of the fresh, unique and "original" elements of the first were recycled and multiplied for good measure. Coupled with a story that covered huge amounts of plot within minutes... and I'm not motivated to spend more money on a sequel. At least not immediately (I'll wait for it to arrive in the cheap theatres :))

#122 JackChase007

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Dmitri Mishkin
Or, Repetitive, repetitive, repetitive -- kick, punch, kick, punch, rotate camera, kick, punch.  Continuously throughout the movie.


I know. And how much do you need to see him do that over and over again, to five people at a time each instance.

#123 DLibrasnow

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 01:53 AM

I've noticed all the ads for Revolutions aren't mentioning any reviews...

#124 Triton

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 03:53 AM

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
I've noticed all the ads for Revolutions aren't mentioning any reviews...


Give them a little time. I am constantly amazed at how the studio marketing departments seem to find someone from some Podunk Gazette who bursts with enthusiam and praise for the worst movies.

#125 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 05:19 AM

I just saw 'Revolutions'. I liked it. I don't think the two sequels are as good as the first but it's a decent sequel as most sequles I find are waists of time and MY money. Anyway, It's a good time at the movies...

#126 DieAnotherDay57

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 06:41 AM

I saw The Matrix Revolutions 11/6/03 and thaought it was great.
I mean the action ,wow. It had a good amount of action scenes and they had something original in almost every action sequence. Also the end battle between Neo and Mr. Smith is my fav from the movie and even the whole trilogy. Now the story part is great too. It deffinetly tied reloded and revolutions together as it needed to but it also had a great story period. Also it ended the trilogy the way it needed to be ended. This is deffinetly a DVD movie for me .

#127 mattbowyer

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 03:23 PM

Reloaded and now Revolutions are two very decent films. People seem to be complaining about how the first film was about ideas whereas the second two are about action. Yet since the first half of The Matrix is setup and the last half is pure sci-fi action, the sequels can be seen as a continuation of this. Why introduce pointless new ideas?

Most amazing was the lack of Revolutions' reliance on bullet time, I'm sure I'll be corrected but I didn't see it used once. Had such a great time with this today, just wish the Smith/Neo fight could have gone on for longer in the sky. That had me awestruck.

To think we can see such awesome films for just $10 is amazing...well done to the Bro's.

#128 mattbowyer

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 03:27 PM

Should point out its not perfect. The big death is hardly a blaze of glory, though did have me close to tears all the same, and if you think about the 'status' of the world at the end of the film you realise that indeed very little has been achieved plotwise in the two sequels, reminding me a lot of Hannibal that ended with Clarice/Hannibal in exactly the same position as at the end of 'Lambs.

Still nothing is perfect, and this is one of the best times I've had at the cinema this year.

#129 mattbowyer

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 03:30 PM

Oh and Trinity and Morpheus deserved a proper ending together and credit for all they had done, remember they worked together for a long time before Neo came along.

Thinking too much now.

#130 Tarl_Cabot

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 04:33 PM

It's better than 'Reloaded', which I liked, but not as action packed...it's more of a war film actually than a kung fu/chase action film. I liked it. The more time I had to digest it the better I like it. I will see it again and buy the triogy of DVDs. :)

#131 gkgyver

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 04:34 PM

Well, they wrapped it up. Praise them for doing that. And I have to admit that the plot twist at the end with Neo and Smith is quite clever.

Unfortunately, the characters, that don't die, boldly go nowhere. What's the deal with Niobe? Morpheus? Merovingian? Persephone? All the others? There's no point for them.
Battle for Zion: 25 minutes. Lots of CGI. Well pulled off. Far too long.
And Sourceville: again, CGI that shouts "I'm an effect shot!" And what's the deal with that big face formed by squiddies? A bit cringe-worthy ... ?
Except for the last 15 minutes or so, there's no real tension building. It just goes on and on and on.

On the positive side: the score for the Neo-Smith scene is amazing. Makes it a bit epic. Also, Neo's end can be quite haunting. Not so much Trinity's, as it's blatantly predictable.

Any more? ... no, ok, then let us forget Revolutions as quick as possible.

Seriously, I think they could have packed Reloaded and Revolutions into one three-hours movie.
As I can see it now, there might be only 30 minutes of Reloaded that are really relevant for Revolutions.

#132 mrmoon

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 07:13 PM

Originally posted by gkgyver
Any more? ... no, ok, then let us forget Revolutions as quick as possible.



Er nah maybe not eh. If you wanna forget it dont come in a thread about it, there's a philosophy for you to ponder. Revolutions was ****ing brilliant, I'm sick of people thinking they're somehow influential in saying 'ooh look at me, I think Revolutions is crap aren't I controversial'. Once those people decide to remove their heads from their rectums and actually decide to watch Matrix Revolutions as its meant to be watched they can come back and complain.

When I get time to write an essay Ill explain to those who enjoyed it and want to converse about it, why I think Matrix Revolutions is one ****-hot movie!

#133 gkgyver

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 08:18 PM

Everyone has an opinion, non?

Btw, I didn't come into this thread, I started it.
And, I wrote this:

"So, here's where you can talk about expectations, hopes, fears, reviews, the Soundtrack and whatever connected with Matrix III."

Also, only because you think it's great, I don't have to, or have I? You can claim it's great, but I think it's average at best.

And I have neither the intention to draw attention to myself, nor have I the intention to pay for it several times just to watch it "how it's meant to be watched", if I don't like it at all.
Do you know how it's meant to be watched? Can you tell me how I have to watch it?

Additionally, I started this thread before the premiere of Revolutions and I said my expectations were low, but, hey, I'm open-minded and would have been thankful for a satisfying final. I don't hate the Matrix for no reason.
Did they bring light into such characters like the Merovingian, Persephone or the Trainman? As I said, these people go nowhere and the twins from Reloaded are also there for no apparent reason.

#134 Robinson

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 01:35 AM

Originally posted by DLibrasnow
A fake world....how is that possible?


The fake world is really a computer simulation used to keep us in control.

Think of it as one huge holodeck- ala ST:TNG: You work & live your life but the reality is you're hooked up to tubes and your bodyheat(as well as the rest of population's) is used to power machines that rule the planet.

FYI, you don't need to buy all of the assorted MATRIX products to understand/enjoy (relatively speaking) the sequels. It's almost like the huge STAR WARS or STAR TREK novels that are written and released. They supplement the events in the sequel and/or provide insight to the original movie....

And are no different than the Gardner & Benson novels, the various comic book incarnations or even JAMES BOND Jr.

While I haven't seen REVOLUTIONS yet, I feel that THE ANIMATRIX shorts are enjoyable and in some ways superior to many of the events in RELOADED.

#135 mattbowyer

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 02:27 AM

mrmoon you will discover, sadly, that it is those who dare to like revolutions and reloaded that are controversial

#136 Blue Eyes

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 03:44 AM

Spoke to a friend who loved the first and second Matrix films. He hated the third.

He described it as having too much CGI, and an attempt to remake a Superman film in the 21st Century.

#137 PaulZ108

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 04:12 AM

Originally posted by mrmoon



Er nah maybe not eh. If you wanna forget it dont come in a thread about it, there's a philosophy for you to ponder. Revolutions was ****ing brilliant, I'm sick of people thinking they're somehow influential in saying 'ooh look at me, I think Revolutions is crap aren't I controversial'. Once those people decide to remove their heads from their rectums and actually decide to watch Matrix Revolutions as its meant to be watched they can come back and complain.  

When I get time to write an essay Ill explain to those who enjoyed it and want to converse about it, why I think Matrix Revolutions is one ****-hot movie!


Someone finally said something. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but this whole "ooh, I hate the Matrix movies and am superior because of it, let's all bash them!" thing is becoming a bit of a cliche. I don't see why some people feel the need to hope for films they dislike to fail. There's alot of movies that get endless praise that I can't stand, but I don't have some desire to see them bomb.

#138 Blue Eyes

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 04:25 AM

Not that comment is necessarily aimed at me, but I personally don't want to see the Matrix bomb. But there are some people who dislike the Matrix and they have a right to voice that.

Now if they were speaking out against a Bond film... :)

#139 gkgyver

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 11:45 AM

"Someone finally said something. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but this whole "ooh, I hate the Matrix movies and am superior because of it, let's all bash them!" thing is becoming a bit of a cliche. I don't see why some people feel the need to hope for films they dislike to fail. There's alot of movies that get endless praise that I can't stand, but I don't have some desire to see them bomb."

Hey, this is a discussion thread about the movies. I didn't start this to call in all Matrix-haters and I didn't start it for the Matrix lovers.
It's about our opinions on the movies.
Some said they didn't like it (me included) and wrote why.

Where's the problem?

If you have any interest in my points against the Matrix, read my previous posts and respond to them or think about your post one or two seconds.

When I go seeing a movie, I want to get entertained; I don't want to pay for it three or four times until I get the basic plotline just to figure out why those funny people, whose points remain perfectly unclear for me, do what they do.
If I want to get a dose of philosophy, I read a book.

PS: Isn't it funny that lots of the jabbering in Reloaded is about purpose and most of the characters don't even serve one?

#140 Oddfeld

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 05:57 PM

Just got back from seeing it.
Thought it was phenomenal.
It matched the drive and inventiveness of the first movie, something the 2nd was sorely lacking. And it achieved it in different ways to the first one too.


Those who expect "Matrix 3:Neo's further adventures" like it was a weekly kung fu TV show will be sorely disappointed. :)

#141 DieAnotherDay57

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 07:42 PM

Well as I said before I like the matrix movies and I saw the 3rd and I liked it and to tell you the truth (boy some people will surely disagree with me and say what the hell is wrong with you but ill say it anyways)I thought The Matrix Revolutions was the best of them all and then Reloaded and then the original. You might be wondering why I say this and ill tell you. See Reloaded in my opinion was better then the 1st matrix because the action was way better and the story was more complex even thaought it was confusing once I found out what exactly was going on I liked It more then the first and now every time I watch it it will amaze me , the story that is. Now that I saw Revolutions I thaought the action was better because it had like 5 or 6 scenes but what really made me like the action was the war in Zion and the fight between Neo and smith(I think its the best in the movie and even the whole trilogy.) Then the story was better then Reloaded because SPOILER!!!!







first you had the story finish with a great ending and you found out what happened to Zion which was important and then Neo and Trinity dying was dramatic. See you didnt see any drama in any of the other matrix movies and even thought it isnt a drama movie (I have a feeling some will target that)it gives it lots of emotion to the story.

#142 jwheels

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 07:50 PM

Couldn't agree with you more, DieAnotherDay57. I like the complexity in these movies. Yes, I do like to be entertained by movies, but sometimes I like my mind to think about what really happened and what it all ment, and I think the Matrix movies do that perfectly

#143 DieAnotherDay57

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 08:28 PM

Well at least some people agree with me like jwheels57. Now I think that a lot of people say that they didnt like it because it has a bad story (which I disagree with ) and some actually mean it but I think some people just didnt understand it and didnt bother to. Im preety sure this ist true because when I saw reloaded I was like that has great action but I didnt understand anything. However once my brother and sister explained it I liked it more then the first one. I sugest that some people who understood it and hated it do what you want but people that didnt understand and hated should have someone to explain it .

#144 PaulZ108

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Posted 08 November 2003 - 11:43 PM

Saw it a few hours ago and HATED it. The first 45 minutes or so were okay, but everything after that just sucked.

I loved the first two and I really wanted to like this one, but DAMN...one of the most dissapointing movie experiences I've ever had.

#145 DanMan

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 12:06 AM

I just saw it. The only part I really liked was the part with Smith while it was raining.

#146 1q2w3e4r

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 04:04 AM

Call me up for generalising. Seeing this movie unlike the first or second isn't about simply watching an action sci-fi film, it raises questions about belief, faith and ideology. You can't watch this film like you can the first or second and not analysis it and actually enjoy the film.

(Whoever said it's left open for a fourth film, i'm sorry but your wrong)

Which is good, the first two had elements to analyse if you chose this one thrusts them upon you.

But I tend to think that people who don't like the second or third films miss the subtext or ideology of these films.

These films work well because they follow the path or journey of a hero (much like why star wars was so successful.)

The Matrix premise itself is stemmed in mythology of both Roman Catholicism and Budist principles.

Buddist beliefs hold the idea that life is only "real" in the interpritation of the senses of the mind and body. eg. touch, sight, taste etc

The first film explored this pretty extensively with the explanation from Morphus about the machine world and that all human's were "plugged" into the matrix to live. The "jacking" in to the matrix symbolises a connection between the real world, and the dream world. There's much made out of sleeping or "waking" in the first film, waking symbolises enlightenment, or knowledge.

As to the origion of the matrix. It's well explained in the first film, and built upon on the second. Basically the whole journey of "the one" has occoured before. Five or six times to be precise, and each time the machines have breached and defeated Zion and the matrix has been restarted by the "source" or archartech (spelling?) and has allowed some people to begin repopulating Zion.

This might sound pointless but it works in the triology's ideology because the first film brings up the idea that while life inside the matrix is a dream, people feel that something is missing, or feel abstract from their world. By having people in the real world free these individuals inside the matrix, they are being presented with choice.

Choice as discussed in the second film is key to human nature. Because the matrix is based on mathematics principle. At the end of the second film the Architect explains that when the population of the matrix didn't have choice the world was perfect and that their natural human nature rejected perfection.

So, the oriacle introduced the concept of choice. Which resulted in a mathamatical anomaly, that being Neo (or the one)

Basically, the oriacle and architech are the "mother and father" of the matrix.

Now because of the concept of the one or neo (neo is made out of letters used in spelling one) we have a christ or buddist figure that is a saviour.

Much of the films (all three) are based on the concept of faith. The more faith you have the more you can break the "rules" of the matrix because you can see the matrix for what it is, a fictional world, or computer code.

Neo is able to defeat smith in the end of the first film because he has faith or belief (something Morphus tells him he needs). In having belief Neo is no longer awed by the concept of the matrix (as he is in the training program in the first film) but almost bored by it, because he can see the truth in it. see how bored and effortlessly he defeats Smith when he sees the matrix for what it is that it simply is computer code. This allows him to break the rules as i mentioned before.

Balance is also a theme throughout the trilogy. You cannot have peace without chaos or wisdom/freedom from the matrix without faith/belief

Now because Neo can break the rules of the matrix, in the second film. The Matrix is unbalanced, that's why Smith who in the first film talked about how humans were weak and felt emotions needs to "clone" himself to be able to meet Neo's level of power. We see Neo become more enlightened and almost Budda like in the second film. He can fight off dozens of Agents without raising a sweat.

There is a transformation between Agent Smith and Neo. Smith takes on all the human characteristics he despised in the first film and shows blind rage for killing Neo, where Neo becomes more emotionless in the second and third films and takes on Smith's "machine" like characteristics. This is about balance.

Which brings us to the third film and end of the trilogy and the series. By being stuck between the real world and the matrix Neo has in a sense "died" again like in the first film and is resurected.

By travelling to the source and machine city Neo does something that's never occoured before in the previous Matrix systems. He doesn't accept the choice in front of him or what's expected and instead makes another. By doing this he allows the people of Zion to live, however, it comes from his own sacrifice.

Pretty depressing stuff really. By killing Smith, Neo kills his opposite. In doing so, he knowingly kills himself. Smith (on the ship in the real world torments him that they are the same) So there's no fourth film. The cycle has been complete, however now the Zion can live in peace without attack from the machines.

Because, the principles of choice that the matrix is built on cannot factor out the anomaly of "the one" and that the people plugged into the matrix need to have a "choice" of being unplugged even if it's an unconcious choice.

Thats why even though people might miss the end of the film where Neo's lifeless body is being dragged along the ground and mistake him "seeing" (where its really a hightened level of enlightenment) for being alive, its the belief and spirit of "the one" not this version of "the one" that's still alive.

Hope this clears some things up for people.

#147 Icephoenix

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 04:16 AM

And someone explain how the hell Neo blew up etc...:)

#148 1q2w3e4r

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 04:21 AM

Gonna jump in here.

If your talking about blowing up the machines on the way to the machine city. Its about balance. He couldn't do anything like that till Smith answered the phone and entered the real world.

#149 DieAnotherDay57

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 04:24 AM

I have a question . How many of you actually know that the basic elements of the matrix is from all kinds of anime? Not everything is from anime as in the details and some story but some of the key elements are. The Wascowski bros (i dont know if I spelled it right)are being sued for the copying of many anime stories. Now I do like the movies and If I had scene these animes I prob stile would because its live action diffrent actors/actreses and the details . Now im not trying to say anything bad bout them but I just wanted to know who knows this information.

#150 1q2w3e4r

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 05:19 AM

ya japanese animation flicks were apparently a big inspiration.