204 replies to this topic

[JohnnyWalker]

Kinda hoping both Arnold and Newman are busy so they can get Michael Giacchino.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Kinda hoping both Arnold and Newman are busy so they can get Michael Giacchino.

 Ghiacchino will be doing Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes and presumably Mission: Impossible 5.

[JohnnyWalker]

 

Kinda hoping both Arnold and Newman are busy so they can get Michael Giacchino.

 Ghiacchino will be doing Dawn Of The Planet Apes and presumably Mission: Impossible 5.

 

Don't know about Apes but Mission: Impossible movies always take ages.

[bondjames]

 

To get this back on track I'd be happy with Newman or Arnold, although I think Arnold may be better for Bond24, despite serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era.

 

Why?

 

Because he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound'. Despite Arnold's mostly forgettable work during Brosnan's tenure, he has really upped his game during Craig's run. There is some wonderful stuff on the Casino Royale (African Rundown is totally Barryesque and perfectly fits the scene) and even better stuff on Quantum where he really outdid himself. Night At The Opera was outstanding and evoked the clmbing tension of Gumbold's Safe from OHMSS - both these tracks remind me of Ravel's incomparable Bolero, with the increasing tension and buildup. Bond in Haiti, Someone Wants to Kill You and Bolivian Taxi Ride were also very good. He still has a tendency to be too bombastic and noisey with the action scenes (African Rundown notwithstanding) but I think he has improved dramatically. Having missed out on the 50th Anniversary Bond, I think he will be hungry and want to outdo himself. Given  that I believe Bond 24 is going to be a true classic (Eon has too much to lose to screw this one up) they need a composer who can give it the 'Bond sound'.

 

Having said that, I'd be happy with Newman as well. He did an excellent job with Skyfall. The Chimera, Severine, New Diggs, and Shanghai Drive were absolutely outstanding. I'm just concerned that it may been beginner's luck and he may try to experiment too much outside the Bond sound. Much as I like creativity, I'd like some consistency, particularly when the standard was set so high by Barry. It's like the gun barrel. All attempts at experimenting with one of the franchise's iconic elements have failed miserably. Hopefully they get that right next time too.

 

Bottom line: Give it to one of these two. They've proven they can do the job. Just make sure to get the best out of them, and find out who is hungrier for the job. I'd suspect it's Arnold.

serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era: not sure what you're talking about.
he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound': exactly why Arnold should come back

 

Just to clarify, I said that I don't mind either Arnold or Newman.

 

I also pointed out that Arnold improved tremendously for Casino Royale and Quantum - and have referenced the tracks that impressed me. If he keeps it up, I'd have no problems with him coming back. I'm not blindly recommending him however because in my opinion his 3 Brosnan efforts were subpar.

 

Regarding your question about my comment on Arnold's music from the Brosnan post Goldeneye era: I believe everything about his 3 follow up movies to Goldeneye, including the music, was a complete disgrace to the legacy of James Bond. From the use of BMW's as his show vehicle rather than Astons (ok they went back to Aston in DaD) to wanna-be snow surfing CGI, to overpouting Hollywood actresses sharing top billing with Bond (Berry or Richards anyone?), to horrendous writing (Purvis and Wade without the benefit of Paul Haggis or Logan), to pathetic villains (Renard, Mr. Kill, Bullion) to Brosnan's borderline schizophrenic performance as Bond (acting like a metrosexual wuss with the ladies in some instances and like a hard guy in other instances) - everything was horrible. Bourne completely outclassed Bond on the serious end of the spectrum during that time (right down to the more distinctive music) and Austin Powers completely outclassed Bond on the comedic side. It was a sad time to be a true Bond fan. The series had degenerated below standard Hollywood tripe. The music reflected that too, with no real depth or class. Thank god the producers figured all this out and decided to reboot.

 

With Casino Royale and Quantum, I saw a dramatic improvement in the music, and I also saw a complete improvement in every facet of the movies themselves. It's like everyone just took it to a whole new level. I don't know if Craig's far superior acting capabilities inspired everyone or what - but the quality of the production improved. I'm not talking about 'money on the screen' or 'effects' etc. I'm talking about the quality. It's 'an intangible' in the artistic world - but you know it when you see it. Arnold seriously improved his game in CR and QoS in my humble opinion. Maybe the producers told him to take it to another level or he'd be dumped as part of the 'cleaning out' that occured after DaD - I don't know.

 

It's just my view.

Edited by bondjames, 22 July 2013 - 12:24 AM.

[RMc2]

Also remember that a composer is restricted by what a director and the producers let him do - for instance, on TND Spottiswoode more or less asked Arnold just to use the Bond theme again and again...

[bondjames]

Also remember that a composer is restricted by what a director and the producers let him do - for instance, on TND Spottiswoode more or less asked Arnold just to use the Bond theme again and again...

An excellent point.

 

That was actually one of my primary peeves with Arnold's earlier work. he kept reusing and cheapening the Bond theme without any variation. Barry and the other replacement composers actually varied it and incorporated it into the title song music rather than just blaring it out there without variation. Absolutely outstanding examples include in Diamonds are Forever when Bond meets MoneyPenny near the Hovercraft ("A diamond? In a ring? Would you settle for a tulip") or the bit in You Only Live Twice where Bond is being driven to Osato's headquarters while impersonating a Japanese thug after Henderson's death). These are just minute examples of Barry's genius at creating tension filled spy music incorporating the Bond theme, rather than just throwing it out there - horns and all.

 

Only Dr. No and to some extent From Russia with Love during the Maestro's tenure overused the Bond theme, and that was because the entire team was still finding its feet before they hit their stride with Goldfinger.

 

The producers seemed to have noticed this because the Bond theme is thankfully used sparingly these days (since Craig came on board at least) and to my mind at least, has much more effect when used (i.e. Aston reveal, Bond, James Bond in CR). Another artistic point that everyone thankfully understands now: "less is more"

 

I never thought about the impact of the director. Most of the guys they used during Brosnan's later work (post-Goldeneye) were useless and did not know how to make a Bond movie. They were going through the motions with the compartment parts but did not capture the true essense. Only Campbell knew what it was about. That really may have been the issue after all.

 

Good point.

Edited by bondjames, 22 July 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

I love Arnold´s work on every Bond film he scored.

 

But after five pictures a breath of fresh air was needed.  Heck, even Barry repeatedly stated that he needed a break.  Of course, Barry came back and delivered the underappreciated THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, the masterful MOONRAKER, the nice OCTOPUSSY and the great THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.  But Barry was a singular talent. Can Arnold add something to Bond scores should he be asked back? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Thomas Newman did excellent work on SKYFALL and IMO should return.

 

When Mendes steps down as director another composer is welcome to add his ideas to the series.

[TheManwiththeWaltherPPK]

I'm all for Newman's return.  I know some think that his Skyfall score was not "Bondian" enough in that it was not grand and bombastic enough like Barry, but people forget that Barry's earlier work on the series was often more jazzy and atmospheric - befitting of the fact that the Bond films still attempted to be espionage thrillers at that time.  Barry's work become more grand and bombastic during the Moore and Dalton years.  I have always felt like Arnold was mainly influenced by later Barry when I have always preferred his earlier work on the series.  What I loved about Newman's score for Skyfall was that it had more of the atmospheric and suspensful thriller style of Barry's earlier stuff.  It also tried to be more regional, with cues being evocative of the nationality of each location, as occurred with the best Barry scores.  Although Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace were definitely among Arnold's better works, they seemed to have one consistent sound and never took on the flavour of the different locations.

Edited by TheManwiththeWaltherPPK, 18 August 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[bondjames]

I think Newman's score was sufficiently Bondian. It was also different, which is expected as he was bringing his own touch to it. I think what it lacked though was some orchestral flair. Barry was superb at creating grand orchestral melodies - simply brilliant at it. His best work in that vein in my opinion was in On Her Majesty's Secret Service and Living Daylights, although Thunderball (water scenes) was also superb.

 

Arnold did not do this so well - his grand, orchestral cues were mostly noisey rather than melodic.

 

I do think he tried with Casino Royale and with QoS to create 'regional' cues however. Particularly African Rundown which has African drumbeats throughout and the Haiti work during the cab ride with Fields and the Hotel bit before meeting Camille - these were very 'local' sounding. Same can be said of the Cuban bit in DaD, although as I've said before, his Brosnan stuff was sub-par for the most part in my opinion.

 

I was watching Death and the Maiden and Ninth Gate recently and think Wojciech Kilar would be excellent for Bond. He knows how to create suspenseful memorable melodies without making them noisey or overly 'loud'.

[Guy Haines]

Also remember that a composer is restricted by what a director and the producers let him do - for instance, on TND Spottiswoode more or less asked Arnold just to use the Bond theme again and again...

I got the impression with the score for TND that the use of the Bond theme was to compensate - overcompensate? - for the very sparing and unconventional use of it by Eric Serra in GE. Almost as if the director was saying to the audience "We know some of you traditional fans missed it last time out, so here it is in spades this time."

 

(Oddly enough, David Arnold had the same accusation thrown at him in a review I read of his QoS score - a score which I rate as one of his best. The review headline? "Where is the Bond theme??". It didn't matter that Arnold had tried to put his own stamp on it whilst weaving in hints at the Norman theme from time to time - something he was asked to do with both CR and QoS, and something Thomas Newman did with SF. As far as this reviewer was concerned, if the Monty Norman theme was missing and the soundtrack cues didn't have the theme in the background every time Bond turned up, then it wasn't a proper Bond OST. There's no pleasing some!)

[Walecs]

Well, I agree QOS lacked Bond theme. There were a few hints, which I didn't even get at the first hear.

 

The "lack" of Bond theme worked in Casino Royale (I put quotation marks because after all it was there, but again a few hints), but not in QOS and Skyfall.

[Berni99]

What about Greg Edmonson, i think he's one of the most underrated Composers, his Soundtrack for the Uncharted-Trilogy is brilliant. Wish he could do a bond Movie in the future.

 

Edited by Berni99, 23 August 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Walecs]

Grant Kirkhope should have his chance. He's a great Bond fan, even though he's just done videogames, his talent would work perfectly as a film composer.

 

Perfect Dark soundtrack proved he can write amazing espionage music, and listen to his Kingdom of Amalur soundtrack:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=MtP8vT4oY0Y

[A Kristatos]

 

 

To get this back on track I'd be happy with Newman or Arnold, although I think Arnold may be better for Bond24, despite serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era.

 

Why?

 

Because he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound'. Despite Arnold's mostly forgettable work during Brosnan's tenure, he has really upped his game during Craig's run. There is some wonderful stuff on the Casino Royale (African Rundown is totally Barryesque and perfectly fits the scene) and even better stuff on Quantum where he really outdid himself. Night At The Opera was outstanding and evoked the clmbing tension of Gumbold's Safe from OHMSS - both these tracks remind me of Ravel's incomparable Bolero, with the increasing tension and buildup. Bond in Haiti, Someone Wants to Kill You and Bolivian Taxi Ride were also very good. He still has a tendency to be too bombastic and noisey with the action scenes (African Rundown notwithstanding) but I think he has improved dramatically. Having missed out on the 50th Anniversary Bond, I think he will be hungry and want to outdo himself. Given  that I believe Bond 24 is going to be a true classic (Eon has too much to lose to screw this one up) they need a composer who can give it the 'Bond sound'.

 

Having said that, I'd be happy with Newman as well. He did an excellent job with Skyfall. The Chimera, Severine, New Diggs, and Shanghai Drive were absolutely outstanding. I'm just concerned that it may been beginner's luck and he may try to experiment too much outside the Bond sound. Much as I like creativity, I'd like some consistency, particularly when the standard was set so high by Barry. It's like the gun barrel. All attempts at experimenting with one of the franchise's iconic elements have failed miserably. Hopefully they get that right next time too.

 

Bottom line: Give it to one of these two. They've proven they can do the job. Just make sure to get the best out of them, and find out who is hungrier for the job. I'd suspect it's Arnold.

serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era: not sure what you're talking about.
he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound': exactly why Arnold should come back

 

Just to clarify, I said that I don't mind either Arnold or Newman.

 

I also pointed out that Arnold improved tremendously for Casino Royale and Quantum - and have referenced the tracks that impressed me. If he keeps it up, I'd have no problems with him coming back. I'm not blindly recommending him however because in my opinion his 3 Brosnan efforts were subpar.

 

Regarding your question about my comment on Arnold's music from the Brosnan post Goldeneye era: I believe everything about his 3 follow up movies to Goldeneye, including the music, was a complete disgrace to the legacy of James Bond. From the use of BMW's as his show vehicle rather than Astons (ok they went back to Aston in DaD) to wanna-be snow surfing CGI, to overpouting Hollywood actresses sharing top billing with Bond (Berry or Richards anyone?), to horrendous writing (Purvis and Wade without the benefit of Paul Haggis or Logan), to pathetic villains (Renard, Mr. Kill, Bullion) to Brosnan's borderline schizophrenic performance as Bond (acting like a metrosexual wuss with the ladies in some instances and like a hard guy in other instances) - everything was horrible. Bourne completely outclassed Bond on the serious end of the spectrum during that time (right down to the more distinctive music) and Austin Powers completely outclassed Bond on the comedic side. It was a sad time to be a true Bond fan. The series had degenerated below standard Hollywood tripe. The music reflected that too, with no real depth or class. Thank god the producers figured all this out and decided to reboot.

 

With Casino Royale and Quantum, I saw a dramatic improvement in the music, and I also saw a complete improvement in every facet of the movies themselves. It's like everyone just took it to a whole new level. I don't know if Craig's far superior acting capabilities inspired everyone or what - but the quality of the production improved. I'm not talking about 'money on the screen' or 'effects' etc. I'm talking about the quality. It's 'an intangible' in the artistic world - but you know it when you see it. Arnold seriously improved his game in CR and QoS in my humble opinion. Maybe the producers told him to take it to another level or he'd be dumped as part of the 'cleaning out' that occured after DaD - I don't know.

 

It's just my view.

 

Spot on bondjames!  I completely echo the same sentiments in regards to Arnold's earlier Brosnan work versus his later Craig work.  I too would not mind either one of them for Bond 24, but Arnold needs to be kept on that "short leash" that Forster had him on for QOS.

 

 

 

To get this back on track I'd be happy with Newman or Arnold, although I think Arnold may be better for Bond24, despite serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era.

 

Why?

 

Because he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound'. Despite Arnold's mostly forgettable work during Brosnan's tenure, he has really upped his game during Craig's run. There is some wonderful stuff on the Casino Royale (African Rundown is totally Barryesque and perfectly fits the scene) and even better stuff on Quantum where he really outdid himself. Night At The Opera was outstanding and evoked the clmbing tension of Gumbold's Safe from OHMSS - both these tracks remind me of Ravel's incomparable Bolero, with the increasing tension and buildup. Bond in Haiti, Someone Wants to Kill You and Bolivian Taxi Ride were also very good. He still has a tendency to be too bombastic and noisey with the action scenes (African Rundown notwithstanding) but I think he has improved dramatically. Having missed out on the 50th Anniversary Bond, I think he will be hungry and want to outdo himself. Given  that I believe Bond 24 is going to be a true classic (Eon has too much to lose to screw this one up) they need a composer who can give it the 'Bond sound'.

 

Having said that, I'd be happy with Newman as well. He did an excellent job with Skyfall. The Chimera, Severine, New Diggs, and Shanghai Drive were absolutely outstanding. I'm just concerned that it may been beginner's luck and he may try to experiment too much outside the Bond sound. Much as I like creativity, I'd like some consistency, particularly when the standard was set so high by Barry. It's like the gun barrel. All attempts at experimenting with one of the franchise's iconic elements have failed miserably. Hopefully they get that right next time too.

 

Bottom line: Give it to one of these two. They've proven they can do the job. Just make sure to get the best out of them, and find out who is hungrier for the job. I'd suspect it's Arnold.

serious misgivings and disappointment about his contributions during the Brosnan era: not sure what you're talking about.
he has a genuine feel for Bond and was a fan of John Barry - who defined the 'Bond sound': exactly why Arnold should come back

 

Just to clarify, I said that I don't mind either Arnold or Newman.

 

I also pointed out that Arnold improved tremendously for Casino Royale and Quantum - and have referenced the tracks that impressed me. If he keeps it up, I'd have no problems with him coming back. I'm not blindly recommending him however because in my opinion his 3 Brosnan efforts were subpar.

 

Regarding your question about my comment on Arnold's music from the Brosnan post Goldeneye era: I believe everything about his 3 follow up movies to Goldeneye, including the music, was a complete disgrace to the legacy of James Bond. From the use of BMW's as his show vehicle rather than Astons (ok they went back to Aston in DaD) to wanna-be snow surfing CGI, to overpouting Hollywood actresses sharing top billing with Bond (Berry or Richards anyone?), to horrendous writing (Purvis and Wade without the benefit of Paul Haggis or Logan), to pathetic villains (Renard, Mr. Kill, Bullion) to Brosnan's borderline schizophrenic performance as Bond (acting like a metrosexual wuss with the ladies in some instances and like a hard guy in other instances) - everything was horrible. Bourne completely outclassed Bond on the serious end of the spectrum during that time (right down to the more distinctive music) and Austin Powers completely outclassed Bond on the comedic side. It was a sad time to be a true Bond fan. The series had degenerated below standard Hollywood tripe. The music reflected that too, with no real depth or class. Thank god the producers figured all this out and decided to reboot.

 

With Casino Royale and Quantum, I saw a dramatic improvement in the music, and I also saw a complete improvement in every facet of the movies themselves. It's like everyone just took it to a whole new level. I don't know if Craig's far superior acting capabilities inspired everyone or what - but the quality of the production improved. I'm not talking about 'money on the screen' or 'effects' etc. I'm talking about the quality. It's 'an intangible' in the artistic world - but you know it when you see it. Arnold seriously improved his game in CR and QoS in my humble opinion. Maybe the producers told him to take it to another level or he'd be dumped as part of the 'cleaning out' that occured after DaD - I don't know.

 

It's just my view.

 

Spot on bondjames!  I completely echo the same sentiments in regards to Arnold's earlier Brosnan work versus his later Craig work.  I too would not mind either one of them for Bond 24, but Arnold needs to be kept on that "short leash" that Forster had him on for QOS if he is brought back for Bond 24 or beyond.

What about Greg Edmonson, i think he's one of the most underrated Composers, his Soundtrack for the Uncharted-Trilogy is brilliant. Wish he could do a bond Movie in the future.

 

That's very well done!  Not a bad choice if they ever went with him, though he probably does not have a lot of name recognition right now.

[dtuba]

I was disappointed with the SF soundtrack because, well, it's the 50th anniversary! If there was ever a time to "over-use" the classic JB theme, that was it. Mostly, I was hoping that Newman would take the opportunity to re-interpret the classic theme in his own style, much like George Martin (funky wah-wah), Marvin Hamlisch (disco-rific) and Serra (electronic drum beats) did for their sole efforts. Instead, we got a re-hash of "My Name's Bond..." in the track Breadcrumbs. Great track, but basically a re-arrangement of a David Arnold track...that was a re-arrangement of a Barry track...that was supposedly written by Monty Norman!

 

Now that the 50th anniversary is over, I'll probably be OK with Newman. I'd also be OK with Giacchino (loved his scores for the new Star Trek movies). Spike Lee will probably never direct a Bond film (nor do I think he should) but I've always thought his longtime composer Terence Blanchard would be an awesome choice for composer.

[Stainless Steel Teeth INC]

That is a great call on Terence Blanchard whose work on 'Inside Man' really stood out for me.

 

If Bond ever re-visits the US (especially NY) I'd love to hear what Blanchard could bring to the world of 007.

[archer1949]

Kinda hoping both Arnold and Newman are busy so they can get Michael Giacchino.

 

Yes! Giacchino is my favorite composer working today. If it were up to me, he'd score every film that I want to see.

 

I'm also a big James Newton Howard fan, but don't know if he'd be good for Bond. 

[glidrose]

I was watching Death and the Maiden and Ninth Gate recently and think Wojciech Kilar would be excellent for Bond. He knows how to create suspenseful memorable melodies without making them noisey or overly 'loud'.

An excellent composer. Glad to see somebody praise him. Don't think he'll ever get the gig, unfortunately.

[dtuba]

I caught a bit of Zero Dark Thirty the other night. Reminded me again how great Desplait's score was. Very moody, and he uses repeated motifs to build suspense, just like Barry.

[sharpshooter]

I was disappointed with the SF soundtrack because, well, it's the 50th anniversary! If there was ever a time to "over-use" the classic JB theme, that was it. Mostly, I was hoping that Newman would take the opportunity to re-interpret the classic theme in his own style, much like George Martin (funky wah-wah), Marvin Hamlisch (disco-rific) and Serra (electronic drum beats) did for their sole efforts. Instead, we got a re-hash of "My Name's Bond..." in the track Breadcrumbs. Great track, but basically a re-arrangement of a David Arnold track...that was a re-arrangement of a Barry track...that was supposedly written by Monty Norman!

Newman gave plenty of versions of the Bond theme in the score. My favourites are the rousing, old school spirit heard in 'Grand Bazaar, Istanbul' and 'She's Mine'. 'New Digs' is a cue devoted to a different kind of Bond theme. Among others, the end of 'Day Wasted' is a highlight, as well as 'Granborough Road'. I wish the 'Bond Captures Silva' cue was officially released. It's the delicious Bond theme when the helicopters arrive on Silva's island.

[Sir Godfrey]

The score composed by Arnold is arranged and conducted by Newman. Is it possible ?

[sharpshooter]

The score composed by Arnold is arranged and conducted by Newman. Is it possible ?

Anything is possible, but this is unlikely. I'd much prefer they hire one composer and let them fully do their thing.

[00Twelve]

Kinda hoping both Arnold and Newman are busy so they can get Michael Giacchino.

Giacchino already wrote his perfect Bond score. It was for "The Incredibles."

[glidrose]

I was watching Death and the Maiden and Ninth Gate recently and think Wojciech Kilar would be excellent for Bond. He knows how to create suspenseful memorable melodies without making them noisey or overly 'loud'.

An excellent composer. Glad to see somebody praise him. Don't think he'll ever get the gig, unfortunately.

No chance now, sadly.

http://www.telegraph...on-its-own.html

[Major Bloodnok]

We can't have John Barry so... David Arnold.

[SecretAgentFan]

Sam Mendes will want Newman to return, that´s for sure.  Only if Newman declines (like Deakins) there is a chance for another composer.  I doubt that Mendes would welcome Arnold since he could have gotten him for SKYFALL but insisted on Newman.

 

The only question remains: will Newman want to  come back?  Can a composer afford to say no, even a high profile one as Newman?

[Walecs]

Sam Mendes will want Newman to return, that´s for sure.  Only if Newman declines (like Deakins) there is a chance for another composer.  I doubt that Mendes would welcome Arnold since he could have gotten him for SKYFALL but insisted on Newman.

 

The only question remains: will Newman want to  come back?  Can a composer afford to say no, even a high profile one as Newman?

 

1. The reason Mendes didn't ask Arnold to do the score isn't that he doesn't like him, but simply that he had Newman.
 

2. If Newman is busy with other scores or he's not interested in Bond, he'll be able to refuse.

[S K Y F A L L]

John Williams.

[Walecs]

John Williams.

 

Exactly.

[SecretAgentFan]

I love John Williams´ work.  

 

But I don´t think that he could (or would want to) score a Bond film.  There´s nothing in his style that suggests what Bond needs.