402 replies to this topic

[Odd Jobbies]

This idea of why Bond chose this job has been played out. I have no problem with the films looking deeper into Bond's character. However, this idea of questioning his job needs to go.

 

 

In a nutshell, yes.

 

Though Bond being virtually suicidal in a YOLT adaptation would be OK

[SecretAgentFan]

For my taste, the whole "let´s look deeper at Bond´s character" is completely played out.

 

If you look any deeper you will see there is nothing else.  Orphan, anti-social behaviour that made him perfect for the spy job, losing his first love turned him into a what the heck-womanizer, and the second love of his life was killed by his main enemy, turning him into an even more determined lone assassin.

 

What else is there?

[MISALA1994]

For my taste, the whole "let´s look deeper at Bond´s character" is completely played out.

If you look any deeper you will see there is nothing else. Orphan, anti-social behaviour that made him perfect for the spy job, losing his first love turned him into a what the heck-womanizer, and the second love of his life was killed by his main enemy, turning him into an even more determined lone assassin.

What else is there?

My opinion: nothing.

[Odd Jobbies]

Indeed! It's a crime that they've done this to death before arriving at a YOLT adaptation (which is where SP's ending would naturally lead).

 

Just like they raped and pillaged Fleming's stories so that almost none could be done faithfully without repetition, they have now exhausted a core theme so that perhaps the best story on this theme, YOLT can't be done without repeated it yet again.

 

As much as i love Eon and BB etc, they have been remiss to some extent in this regard... Ah, guess i'm grumpy this morning -i need another coffee!

[SecretAgentFan]

I actually believe that EON has done the right thing: using elements from the novels that were useful for a big budget mass entertainment, disregarding the rest.

 

It was even useful to make Bond darker, looking at his psychology - because that was the trend of the 00-years.

 

But now it´s time to stop.  The sinister, tortured hero is a thing of yesterday, boring and overdone.  It´s high time for a return to the fun James Bond.  And in general, IMHO, to stop treating pulp fiction heroes as if they fit in our reality.

[sharpshooter]

Less is more holds true for me. It adds mystique and depth to a character without devoting valuable screentime away from an overaching storyline. I think Batman (1989) did this really effectively. In Bond's case, I really like Felix saying "he was married once, but it was a long time ago" in LTK. With that small scene we learn Bond has plenty of emotional baggage behind his smile. There's more to him. I'm okay with psychology - it depends on the intensity of what they're aiming for, I guess.

[ggl]

I actually believe that EON has done the right thing: using elements from the novels that were useful for a big budget mass entertainment, disregarding the rest.

 

It was even useful to make Bond darker, looking at his psychology - because that was the trend of the 00-years.

 

But now it´s time to stop.  The sinister, tortured hero is a thing of yesterday, boring and overdone.  It´s high time for a return to the fun James Bond.  And in general, IMHO, to stop treating pulp fiction heroes as if they fit in our reality.

Very interesting thought, but have you seen Logan or Batman vs. Superman? I´m not sure the "sinister, tortured hero is a thing of yesterday".

 

So, what's next?

[SecretAgentFan]

I actually saw both - and I must admit, I enjoyed Batman v Superman and appreciated the intent and execution of LOGAN.  Yet, I guess that the reaction to BvS already prompted a lighter approach for JUSTICE LEAGUE, and LOGAN is the end of that franchise.  If you look at the other comic book heroes gearing up for new installments it´s all about having more fun and being more light-hearted as well.

 

And, quite frankly, after LOGAN I was asking myself: is this really what I am entertained by?  Two hours of death, destruction, pain, anger, hopelessness?  While the film is made very well, I don´t want to see it again.

 

But that´s exactly what drives the ongoing success of the Bond films.  You want to see them again, have a good time watching them, feeling better afterwards.

[DavidJones]

There were several lighter moments in Logan, as  though they didn't want to go Dark Knight dark. But, mostly, a bleak film, yes.

 

Bond is a hedonist. He loves for today because he may be dead tomorrow. That's why he's a womanizer and a drinker and lives well. Of course, in the books, he's more or less a civil servant most of the time and only has assignments every few months.

Edited by DavidJones, 22 March 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[Odd Jobbies]

I love that they've moved into dramatic territory and away from comic book adventure. Craig's movies are action-thrillers and that's more exciting than colourful tropes. I hope they don't abandon the rougher edge and darker tone with wit as it's foil, rather than camp gags.

 

Just ditch the over reliance on constant question: "is he OHMSS or has he had enough of it all?" Stop using this blunt story device as the crowbar to jimmy open his inner workings. About time they did it in a less on-the-nose fashion.

[DaveBond21]

I actually saw both - and I must admit, I enjoyed Batman v Superman and appreciated the intent and execution of LOGAN.  Yet, I guess that the reaction to BvS already prompted a lighter approach for JUSTICE LEAGUE, and LOGAN is the end of that franchise.  If you look at the other comic book heroes gearing up for new installments it´s all about having more fun and being more light-hearted as well.

 

And, quite frankly, after LOGAN I was asking myself: is this really what I am entertained by?  Two hours of death, destruction, pain, anger, hopelessness?  While the film is made very well, I don´t want to see it again.

 

But that´s exactly what drives the ongoing success of the Bond films.  You want to see them again, have a good time watching them, feeling better afterwards.

 

Good points. I don't want to see either of those movies based on how you've described them.

 

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[Hockey Mask]

Logan was awesome and executed exactly what it tried to be. Similar to Fury Road.

[MISALA1994]

Logan was awesome and executed exactly what it tried to be. Similar to Fury Road.

+1

[Odd Jobbies]

Logan was awesome and executed exactly what it tried to be. Similar to Fury Road.

Highest praise - now want to see it even more.

[ggl]

The "problem" we all know is that Bond follows his times (you know: Cold War, blaxploitation, martial arts, drug barons...). So nowadays I'm seeing too much series endings, i.e., Spectre's ending was a kind of TDKR ending but...

 

SPOILERS ABOUT BvS AND LOGAN

 

 

 

 

Are we going to see Bond's death or immolation like Superman's death or Logan's death. Probably not, but who knows...

[Dustin]

I think tonally the Marvel films seem to do a lot of things right concerning the balance fantasy/spectacle/fun. However, they are doing their own game and GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY or some AVENGERS flick are not 007, and never will be. For Bond I suggest the producers take a look at the old CHARADE classic, a film that has some genuinely funny moments, some great atmosphere too, but is still firmly grounded in the thriller department. And still it's more suspense than gritty hardcore action and you can watch it without having a bad conscience about being entertained. It would be marvellous if they could reclaim the essence of that spirit and translate it to the here and now.

[SecretAgentFan]

YES!  I actually was thinking about watching CHARADE again yesterday.  Such a wonderful film.

[DavidJones]

I love Charade too. Great dialogue! I think Cary should have ended his career with it, instead of with the flaccid comedy Walk Don't Run.

 

There was a little-seen remake of Charade a few years ago called The Truth About Charlie, which was awful.

 

I also liked Arabesque, which was made by the same people as Charade and starred Gregory Peck and Sophia Loren. Another similar one is Crossplot, with Roger. 

Edited by DavidJones, 24 March 2017 - 08:13 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

I know ARABESQUE - but I should check out CROSSPLOT.

[The Dove]

I hate to be the bearer of potentially bad news but apparently the Writers Guild of America, of which both Purvis and Wade are members, is on the verge of going on strike again.. Fingers crossed that this can be avoided as we all know what happened last time the WGA went on strike and it's affect on then Bond 22 (Quantum of Solace)..

 

https://twitter.com/...314222892040192

[RMc2]

It wouldn't be a Craig Bond film without a troubled production!

[DavidJones]

Why are they with the Writer's Guild of America when they're both British?

[Dustin]

One supposes it's to do with the studio system of Hollywood. If you want to work there you've got to join the guild(s).

[SecretAgentFan]

Correct.

 

But a strike is not yet decided upon.  It may come - but it may also be resolved quickly.  And maybe P&W will have delivered their first (?) draft by then to get things moving.

[Orion]

As I'm sure SAF will also attest, you are advised as a writer to be a be a member of a guild in any country that you'll be working, as very few laws pertaining to creative endeavours are international. This means, although EON is geographically British, it's in their interests for their employees to also have memberships with the American guilds with whom they'll be doing much work given their studio backer and distributor situation.

[Surrie]

If Bond 25 is a Craig film, then I kinda feel bad that all of his movies have had a troubled production phase... if the strike does go ahead. But this is a mighty load of speculation at the moment, both in terms of Craigs return and the strike itself!

[Dustin]

The strike that may not even be is much less of an issue than is the Morbus-MGM...

[SecretAgentFan]

It really is baffling how much inertia MGM can enjoy instead of finding a solution to their problems and function as the studio they still pretend they are.

[MISALA1994]

This feels like 89-95 situation...

[rubixcub]

For Bond I suggest the producers take a look at the old CHARADE classic, a film that has some genuinely funny moments, some great atmosphere too, but is still firmly grounded in the thriller department. And still it's more suspense than gritty hardcore action and you can watch it without having a bad conscience about being entertained. It would be marvellous if they could reclaim the essence of that spirit and translate it to the here and now.

 

YES!  I actually was thinking about watching CHARADE again yesterday.  Such a wonderful film.

 

I love Charade too. Great dialogue!

 

It's one of my favorites, too!  Funny, I was just thinking about that movie earlier today.

 

Dave