402 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

By the way - concerning how writers ruin everything: http://www.thewrap.c...s-white-people/

[Professor Pi]

Nobody's pining for a Hawkeye solo movie starring Jeremy Renner the way they are for Scarlett Johansen's Black Widow.   SNL once did a great skit when Renner was host about how inconsequential an Avenger Hawkeye is.  "I'm out of arrows!"

 

I liked Renner's Bourne film as a nice little action movie, but having Bourne in the title hurt it.

 

Cruise has now had the Ethan Hunt role for twenty years, longer than Hugh Jackman's Wolverine tenure.  After MI6, he'll have matched Connery's official Bond output.  His age has never really bothered me, but it'd be good to see some more character development of Ethan Hunt.  The last two films were really good, like the original, and way better than the disappointing sophomore outing and overrated third installment.  Still, his age now seems more appropriate for Jack Reacher than Mission Impossible.

 

But while they have better Bond stunts than 007, neither film has grossed what the last two Bonds have.

[Dustin]

Might it not be interesting to have Hunt actually change from the active part into a kind of M role, if necessary by means of an injury? In the original show Phelps and the other team leaders used to be more masterminds than actionmen anyway.

[SecretAgentFan]

Great idea and the logical step forward.  

 

However, this is Hollywood and Tom Cruise you´re talking about...  So, that would never happen, unfortunately.

[Dustin]

No, not to be expected. Shame, I think Cruise is missing out there on expanding the character beyond the animated crash test dummy. But as you say, nothing is more obscene in Hollywood's eyes than age...

[MISALA1994]

Nobody's pining for a Hawkeye solo movie starring Jeremy Renner the way they are for Scarlett Johansen's Black Widow. SNL once did a great skit when Renner was host about how inconsequential an Avenger Hawkeye is. "I'm out of arrows!"

I liked Renner's Bourne film as a nice little action movie, but having Bourne in the title hurt it.

Cruise has now had the Ethan Hunt role for twenty years, longer than Hugh Jackman's Wolverine tenure. After MI6, he'll have matched Connery's official Bond output. His age has never really bothered me, but it'd be good to see some more character development of Ethan Hunt. The last two films were really good, like the original, and way better than the disappointing sophomore outing and overrated third installment. Still, his age now seems more appropriate for Jack Reacher than Mission Impossible.

But while they have better Bond stunts than 007, neither film has grossed what the last two Bonds have.

"Logan" was fantastic end for Jackman as Wolverine 5/5...

[SecretAgentFan]

But maybe your idea will be taken up when Cruise is part of that age group which settles into the old mentor roles. In 10 or 20 years...

[Dustin]

Yes, that will be when he's taking over the Gandalf role in MORDOR REVISITED © ™...

[SecretAgentFan]

Imagine that.  Tom Cruise as Gandalf...  Daniel Craig as Saruman...  Someone who´s going to preschool now as Frodo...

[RMc2]

Might it not be interesting to have Hunt actually change from the active part into a kind of M role, if necessary by means of an injury? In the original show Phelps and the other team leaders used to be more masterminds than actionmen anyway.

 

Ghost Protocol kind of did that - and I do believe that was the intention. McQuarrie said M:I-6 will be something of a deconstruction of and reflection on Ethan Hunt, which sounds like a farewell party to me. So you may get your wish...

[Professor Pi]

I like Dustin's idea of Hunt evolving into some sort of M figure, was even thinking it.  But the Mission Impossible franchise hasn't had the box office wobble forcing it to rethink its vision like the X-Men movies have.  Cruise sort of reminds me of the women in Death Becomes Her, where Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn resort to Bondo to keep their looks youthful.

[Odd Jobbies]

But maybe your idea will be taken up when Cruise is part of that age group which settles into the old mentor roles. In 10 or 20 years...

There was a rumour a while back that Cruise would take on Connery's Ramirez role in the Highlander reboot. That's one of the ultimate mentor roles, so if there was any credence to that rumour, then perhaps Cruise, or at least some producers out there, are already thinking that way.

 

But unless Oliver Stone or PT Anderson were directing the Highlander reboot (which is obviously never going to happen - it's currently one of the John Wick directors) then i don't see Cruise cutting it as Ramirez. But an MI mentor, definitely. Although i'd personally find it pretty lame to have Cruise as a reoccurring 'M' character. Like Dench in TWINE they'd crowbar things for the actor to do into the story, just cos' it's Cruise.

 

Imo Hunt either needs a happily ever after Swann moment to end the movie and his arc, or more interestingly they could kill him off in a blaze of glory in MI:6, or 7. Like Captain Kirk in Generations -- only more glorious - that was a pathetic final act for such a beloved character; his dad had a much more fitting death scene in the reboot.

 

Best of all is if they could keep the story under raps and kill off Hunt in the pre-titles sequence and have a new character pick up the self destructing-baton to find the killers. That would be a hoot if the audience didn't see it coming, but i'm sure the internet would find way of spoiling that surprise.

[DavidJones]

I don't think Cruise's ego would let him leave. He's always said how he wants to make "a bunch" of M:I films. He focuses on blockbusters these days, more than every before, and this role could keep him on top for another ten years.

[SecretAgentFan]

True - the MI-films are Cruise´s main source of income.  Unless the "Mummy"-reboot will offer him a new franchise ("Jack Reacher" is probably done after the disappointing returns for the second one), MI will continue with Cruise.

[Odd Jobbies]

I'm guessing Cruise contributes a lot of cash to Scientology. So maybe it's not as simple as what Cruise wants...

 

Even if he did want to quit MI i imagine there's pressure from the 'Tologists to keep that revenue streaming in.

[Surrie]

Been out of the loop somewhat recently, but I have to say I am glad that there is even the smallest amount of movement on Bond 25!

[Professor Pi]

Here's an interesting article on Purvis and Wade's polarizing Bond tenure, discussing why they were picked as well as the valid (and hilarious) criticisms against them:

 

http://screenrant.co...rs-purvis-wade/

[SecretAgentFan]

Hmm, it repeats the same internet "truths" one can find on any message board, disregards the reality and even the reported facts (no, P&W are not the sole writers on TWINE, everybody knows that Michael Apted brought in his wife etc.).

 

Also, the article grossly overstates the power of a screenwriter, ignoring all the influence from the many people higher up in the food chain.

 

Does anybody really believe that P&W always came up with the idea of Bond going rogue - and EON/SONY/CRAIG/ANY DIRECTOR said: well, if you guys think this is good then we do it?

[RMc2]

Here's an interesting article on Purvis and Wade's polarizing Bond tenure, discussing why they were picked as well as the valid (and hilarious) criticisms against them:

 

http://screenrant.co...rs-purvis-wade/

 

Thanks for the link!

 

Does anybody really believe that P&W always came up with the idea of Bond going rogue - and EON/SONY/CRAIG/ANY DIRECTOR said: well, if you guys think this is good then we do it?

 

Hear hear.

 

There's a golden opportunity with Bond 25 to invert the 'Bond goes rogue' trope and have a retired Bond rejoin MI6 to go on their mission - which just happens to be in his interests.

 

Of course, that only works if Craig comes back...

[MISALA1994]

Here's an interesting article on Purvis and Wade's polarizing Bond tenure, discussing why they were picked as well as the valid (and hilarious) criticisms against them:

http://screenrant.co...rs-purvis-wade/

Thanks for the link!

Does anybody really believe that P&W always came up with the idea of Bond going rogue - and EON/SONY/CRAIG/ANY DIRECTOR said: well, if you guys think this is good then we do it?

Hear hear.

There's a golden opportunity with Bond 25 to invert the 'Bond goes rogue' trope and have a retired Bond rejoin MI6 to go on their mission - which just happens to be in his interests.

Of course, that only works if Craig comes back...

If he comes, EON should take a note on "Logan"...

[Odd Jobbies]

Here's an interesting article on Purvis and Wade's polarizing Bond tenure, discussing why they were picked as well as the valid (and hilarious) criticisms against them:

 

http://screenrant.co...rs-purvis-wade/

 

I think it's hard to disagree with this article if you take this line into account:

 

Again, it's not all on these writers, but it's emblematic of their approach.

None of us know exactly how much of the dross they have contributed, or not, but i think it's fair to say there's some obvious weaknesses that keep cropping up which are articulated nicely in the article.

 

So the issue is probably with one or more of the individuals that have participated in all of those movies; i'm assuming that's P&W, BB and Wilson?

 

I suffered the first ep of SS-GB, which is also Exec'd by P&W (meaning little will alter from their vision throughout the production unless they want it to). So unless SS-GB made monumental leaps in quality after that dull and hackneyed 1-hour (many reviews say no) i'm afraid that i personally think that article is probably  hitting the nail on the head.

[SecretAgentFan]

Of course, I have to mention now that I did like "SS-GB".

 

Just saying. 

 

 

And as for the "going rogue"-idea, let´s look at the facts:

 

- TWINE: no going rogue

 

- DAD: actually a great idea - Bond being traded for another agent, losing M´s trust, going rogue in order to find the real traitor, and then about mid-picture again part of Mi6.

 

- CR: no going rogue

 

- QOS: going rogue BUT the P&W draft actually was very different, without the "going rogue"-part in the center of the story

 

- SF: no going rogue, a mission from M

 

- SP: going rogue BUT P&W only came in to save the script, taking over a story concocted by Logan and Mendes

 

 

So, actually, P&W only really made "going rogue" the center of a story ONCE.  Yes, they worked on films that featured this motif again, but it was not a lack of other ideas that made them do this, rather a lack of power.

[DavidJones]

I've been watching SS-GB and the only thing I don't like it is Sam Riley's Batman voice and the fact there's five episodes instead of three, which would have been better.

[Odd Jobbies]

Of course, I have to mention now that I did like "SS-GB".

 

Just saying. 

Very pleased to hear it

 

As for 'going rogue', the article did say that it meant the over use of devices which have the same net effect as 'going rogue', such as being a prisoner in DAD, being 'dead' in TWINE and SF.

 

What i took it to mean was situations that add up to Bond working against or in isolation to M's wishes.

 

Certainly not new to Bond, but it has been used time and again of late as a way of looking at what makes Bond tick - what makes him his own man. I like the sound of that, but not as the core theme of every single outing.

 

Certainly every Bond actor should have their 'Why does he do this job?' movie. But not every movie. When every movie concentrates on this, then Bond has become the bitch of Melodrama.

 

So i think it's not so much about going rogue, but rather the reliance this kind of core premise in order to make Bond question his job. I felt the article made a decent case for this.

[Napoleon Solo]

re: going rogue.

You could argue he went rogue (at least somewhat) in Skyfall. He deserted the service after being shot. This was based on You Only Live Twice/The Man With the Golden Gun where Bond went missing because of amnesia. But he didn't appear to have amnesia in Skyfall. If he was supposed to have lost his memory, they didn't make that clear. I thought Mallory was awfully forgiving ("Why did you come back?").

[DaveBond21]

re: going rogue.

You could argue he went rogue (at least somewhat) in Skyfall. He deserted the service after being shot. This was based on You Only Live Twice/The Man With the Golden Gun where Bond went missing because of amnesia. But he didn't appear to have amnesia in Skyfall. If he was supposed to have lost his memory, they didn't make that clear. I thought Mallory was awfully forgiving ("Why did you come back?").

 

Well Bond had been shot by a fellow MI6 agent, on M's orders.

 

I think Bond was awfully forgiving! 

 

____________________________________________________

[sharpshooter]

Bond went off the grid after the Skyfall PTS. He didn't pursue any leads or kill anyone. He only resumed his duties after meeting M. 

[RMc2]

Arguably he goes rogue after the attack in Westminster. He'd already completed his mission by that point, and he effectively kidnapped M...

[Odd Jobbies]

I think the point was that in all of the films P&W have been involved in there's an inciting incident that forces Bond to reassess his role.

 

That this approach has been over relied upon to provide drama. That this appears either lazy or bankrupt of any other approach.

[Eskyfall]

This idea of why Bond chose this job has been played out. I have no problem with the films looking deeper into Bond's character. However, this idea of questioning his job needs to go.