1017 replies to this topic

[Orion]

...we need actual information for this thread don't we

[Dustin]

If you want to build up a credible threat to a hero you cannot threaten him with something that the audience knows won´t happen. Blofeld would have appeared much more evil if he had actually tortured Madeleine that way, taking away her memory of Bond. That reversal, with Bond forced to watch, would have been truly maniacal - and fitting, since Bond mostly leaves women and does not look back.

A final act in which Madeleine is turned against Bond, made into a puppet by Blofeld - oh, that would have been something fresh and interesting.

This, very much this.

...we need actual information for this thread don't we

Well, what little there is: most players in the Bond game are already busy well into next year; without news from MGM nothing much can happen either way; MGM just missed on a splendid opportunity to announce anything substantial at all; no other party currently seems inclined to urge movement either.

[Surrie]

 

 

...we need actual information for this thread don't we

Well, what little there is: most players in the Bond game are already busy well into next year; without news from MGM nothing much can happen either way; MGM just missed on a splendid opportunity to announce anything substantial at all; no other party currently seems inclined to urge movement either.

 

 

It's going to be a long wait for any substantial news. The longer we wait then the less likely we are to see a return of Blofeld or SPECTRE (the organisation) - which is a complete waste. I can't imagine Eon wanting to introduce both of these without having a small idea of future plans for them within the franchise... but obviously, there have been some stumbling blocks. 

 

Had the issues with Sony not happened, and the distribution deal ended then we may have seen a more well-rounded final product in Spectre (the movie) and some inclination on a follow-up story, or at least, a way which Eon could utilise Blofeld in further installments. 

 

There's to wishful thinking!

[Dustin]

I think it's often just a question of detail: if SPECTRE had just had a select few changes - not an entirely different film but some little things added and others cut; if there had not been the leaks and if Craig had not injured his leg - then the production would have fared a different atmosphere and a warmer welcome with critics.

The premier would not have been accompanied by blown-out-of-proportion remarks, everybody would have been tired and weak after a long and demanding production - but the overall air would have been 'Yes, we did it - and we'll do it again!'

Craig (and Broccoli and some others) would still have wanted a year off. But nobody would have even doubted the next film was not too far away. Sony would surely have pushed for a better subsequent deal to take over distribution. But even that wouldn't have posed an impossible hurdle. By May or June that thing would have been sorted and by December the first stirrings of BOND 25 would have shown on the surface.

I'm sure Blofeld and Spectre were brought back for more than just a one-time use. And I still think they will find their way back into the series. The question is whether Eon draws the right conclusions from SPECTRE. Neither the organisation nor the character were used to the effect they deserved. The memorable scenes and lines are too few, the action is big but uninvolving, the different locations blow the budget and the running time, the subplot is forgettable - what was it even??? - the casting isn't always on spot - even Bond knows immediately Scott is the rotten apple, he should have shot him right in M's office and hushed it up as an accident while cleaning his 'weapon' - and the look of the film is underwhelming.

I'm sure Eon won't make the mistake to pin all that was wrong with SPECTRE just to Blofeld and throw out the baby with the bath water.

The good thing about the gap is, people tend to forget with time what maybe they didn't like about SPECTRE. So in a year or two it will just be the Bond film with Waltz, not the Bond film with Waltz as Bond's brother. But of course, the longer the gap the bigger the chance that Blofeld will return without any reference to earlier events.

[S K Y F A L L]

Maybe we should create a BOND 25 Survival Guide / Support Group or something to help us get through the long break. Or would that be in bad taste you think?

.....................

 

Imagine Marvel stopping right now, saying: oh, we´re all very tired - sure we love our jobs but right now we want to do something different.

 

Something is severely wrong behind the scenes of EON/MGM/SONY/CRAIG.

It's hard to agree with that IMO. It does seem a little odd when they start making billion dollar films then just stop.

 

....................

- The rome sequence works fine, although the car chase feels truncated and not as spectacular as it should have been (Rome at night is beautiful - but the scarceness of traffic points to streets that have been closed down without enough stunt drivers filling them)

........................

The streets do seem a little vacant. 

 

................

 

When I saw the film for the first time and Blofeld announces that the needle will take away Bond´s memory if applied right I immediately knew that it would NOT be applied right.

 

If you want to build up a credible threat to a hero you cannot threaten him with something that the audience knows won´t happen.  Blofeld would have appeared much more evil if he had actually tortured Madeleine that way, taking away her memory of Bond.  That reversal, with Bond forced to watch, would have been truly maniacal - and fitting, since Bond mostly leaves women and does not look back.

.............

The first thing I though was how is Bond going to get out of this one. Your post is much more terrifying then what we got in SP.  

I can't help but feel a little sorry for Eon - if only half hadn't been sold to MGM. I suppose BB and MGW have long since gotten over this, which is why BB turns her attention to other projects occasionally. 

 

I know what you mean. I felt sorry for Chubby and EON whenever I see them discuss it in the Everything or Nothing doc. 

 

Does anyone know more details about the Saltzman sale. Did MGM offer more money then Chubby could afford? 

 

 

For all the money spent on SPECTRE, the best scene, in my opinion, is the train fight.

One of my favorite fights and probably now one of the best.

[tdalton]

[deleted]

[SecretAgentFan]

Sam Mendes has just stoppend out of a big project for Dreamworks.

Just saying...

[Harmsway]

Sam Mendes has just stoppend out of a big project for Dreamworks.

Just saying...

Hmmmm

[Orion]

A designed finale for Craig's Bond would be something I see Mendes going for, the idea of finishing Bond's story has never really been done (CR 67 technically does, but, does that really count). Also its a good advertising point - one WB happily paraded out for Harry Potter and Chris Nolan's Batman despite having every intention of continuing with the IP for both in another form.

[Hockey Mask]

I would love to see Mendes come back and do Shatterhand.

I don't think Craig, Mendes or Waltz feel like it's finished.

Edited by Hockey Mask, 24 November 2016 - 06:18 PM.

[Orion]

Waltz, although he said he hasn't been asked back as yet, did seem to be inclined to return.

[Dustin]

In a recent interview Waltz was critical of his role and of the film as a whole; but there was a definite air he'd like to do better - always assuming there is an offer to do so.

[Orion]

Interestingly Waltz is very carful in the interview not to be critical of the actual film, making sure he only criticized his own performance and a slight lament that he wasn't able to build the working relationship with Mendes that he would've liked. That to me is the action of someone who wants to keep the relationship with EON and Bond, carful as he was not to burn any bridges.

[Dustin]

If memory serves, Jesper Christensen was quite critical himself after QOS; I didn't think he'd be back again. And yet...

But Waltz is professional enough to not rule out anything, not even a return of Mendes and him reprising his role under his direction.

[Orion]

Christensen​ did later say that those remarks were exaggerated, but TBH, even if he hated the actual films, I don't see many turning down as high profile a role that would've taken very little time out of his life (given it's a single scene and he's sat down in a single spot for all of it) and gave him the opportunity to act opposite a critically acclaimed actor under an equally acclaimed director. Similar, I'm sure, to why Craig did Dream House... 

[Dustin]

Christensen's scene had the added advantage of being amongst the best of the whole film and ending with a bang. I'm sure if Waltz would get similarly impressive material he'd not think twice about coming back.

He probably wouldn't anyway, as long as the script offers him more than SPECTRE's. And he'd surely be up for it even if it took five or six years from now.

[sharpshooter]

I would love to see Mendes come back and do Shatterhand.
I don't think Craig, Mendes or Waltz feel like it's finished.

If they all came back, especially Mendes, I'd be really impressed. These films are exhausting to make.

[tdalton]

I'm fine with Craig returning, although I'd probably prefer a fresh approach all the way across the board (including at lead actor), but I have no desire to see Mendes continue with the character.  I just don't see how he could rebound from Spectre to turn in the concluding chapter that Craig's tenure deserves.  

[Dustin]

Mendes returning would be artistically pointless. He did two films already, both successful at the b.o. but SPECTRE also showing signs he's not got much more to add to Bond. To all intents and purposes he did the end of Bond in the Service; picking up after this should be somebody else's job.

[SecretAgentFan]

Thanks to you all for not mentioning my iPhone blunder: "stoppened"?  Stepped, I meant to type.

 

As for Mendes - of course, this might not mean anything in relation to BOND 25.

 

But if he actually were free to choose BOND 25 now it would have one big advantage: Craig would love to return for him, EON would be happy knowing that a director who already is familiar with the whole production enterprise can be trusted, and the studios would also relax a bit.

 

Let´s not forget: SKYFALL did record business, SPECTRE did enormously well.  Another Craig/Mendes-Bond, possibly Craig´s last Bond film, would again be a sure-fire hit.

 

Creatively Bond might not need Mendes again.  On the other hand, Bond did not need Terence Young, Lewis Gilbert, John Glen again - and yet they managed to keep the ship afloat or even bring in tremendously successful entries.

 

And Mendes did say in interviews after SPECTRE that he knew about many ways how to continue.

 

Again, this might just be Mendes deciding against one specific project and not for BOND 25.

 

But I could imagine that EON are at least intensifying their attempts at getting him back now.

[RMc2]

Mendes returning would be artistically pointless. He did two films already, both successful at the b.o. but SPECTRE also showing signs he's not got much more to add to Bond. To all intents and purposes he did the end of Bond in the Service; picking up after this should be somebody else's job.

 

Well said! I really think Bond 25 would benefit from a new director, and one less concerned with being an artist. The franchise as a whole doesn't need Mendes back but if he is to return, let it be several films down the line.

 

 

Creatively Bond might not need Mendes again.  On the other hand, Bond did not need Terence Young, Lewis Gilbert, John Glen again - and yet they managed to keep the ship afloat or even bring in tremendously successful entries.

 

Creatively speaking, I still think the 'third Bond film' evidence is strong enough to suggest no director should make more than two Bonds. And SPECTRE really isn't good enough to justify bringing Mendes back...

[SecretAgentFan]

Mendes has not ruled out completely any involvement in another Bond film.  He points to Daniel Craig who will probably not say anything until he opens in "Othello".

 

Here´s the official Mendes line, interviewed by deadline.com:  http://deadline.com/...ead-1201859603/

 

 

Also: Craig has begun with preview performances of "Othello" on November 22.  The show officially opens on December 12 and will run through January 18, 2017.

[tdalton]

 

Mendes returning would be artistically pointless. He did two films already, both successful at the b.o. but SPECTRE also showing signs he's not got much more to add to Bond. To all intents and purposes he did the end of Bond in the Service; picking up after this should be somebody else's job.

 

Well said! I really think Bond 25 would benefit from a new director, and one less concerned with being an artist. The franchise as a whole doesn't need Mendes back but if he is to return, let it be several films down the line.

 

 

Creatively Bond might not need Mendes again.  On the other hand, Bond did not need Terence Young, Lewis Gilbert, John Glen again - and yet they managed to keep the ship afloat or even bring in tremendously successful entries.

 

Creatively speaking, I still think the 'third Bond film' evidence is strong enough to suggest no director should make more than two Bonds. And SPECTRE really isn't good enough to justify bringing Mendes back...

 

 

No, it certainly isn't.  

 

Given how poor Spectre was, EON should be looking to distance themselves from as much of the creative team behind it as possible.  I know they're probably a bit gun shy over new writers at this point, but they really need to forge ahead with new writers, a new director, and some fresh blood in other places in order to rejuvenate the franchise again.

[Dustin]

Moreover, bringing Mendes in for the third time contains a very serious threat for the future: other directors will be hesitant to tackle Bond since by then it will be Mendes' baby, regardless of the result. And we can be sure it will be another box office hit. The question then will be: Can modern Bond even work without Mendes? And the series shouldn't go there, ever.

Also I would prefer if Craig came back for the role itself, not just to work with Mendes.

[Robinson]

I'm fine with Craig returning, although I'd probably prefer a fresh approach all the way across the board (including at lead actor), but I have no desire to see Mendes continue with the character. I just don't see how he could rebound from Spectre to turn in the concluding chapter that Craig's tenure deserves.

Indeed but it's really about EON & Craig and how they want to move forward.

The Bond Experience recorded Craig's "Beyond Bond" Q&A last month and posted it on YouTube. Craig remarked that everyone is "tired" right now after Spectre. I'm sure they're somewhat disappointed by the critic and fan response to the film.

I could see Mendes back in a producer's role but not in the director's chair. I just want a strong plot and characters.

[sharpshooter]

I wouldn't be so definitive about any of this. If the story is a continuation of Skyfall and SPECTRE, Mendes would be well placed to carry it on given he had such heavy involvement in creating it. Nobody said Christopher Nolan getting the chance to wrap up the Dark Knight trilogy was 'artistically pointless'. SPECTRE wasn't as good as Skyfall, but it was better than a lot of others in the franchise for my money. I thought Mendes was absolutely not an option, and his return isn't essential. But never say never.

[Harmsway]

I could see Mendes being lured back, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it.

I quite enjoyed Skyfall, but the bloated and unimaginative Spectre suggested that Mendes didn't have much more to offer.

[Dustin]

I wouldn't be so definitive about any of this. If the story is a continuation of Skyfall and SPECTRE, Mendes would be well placed to carry it on given he had such heavy involvement in creating it. Nobody said Christopher Nolan getting the chance to wrap up the Dark Knight trilogy was 'artistically pointless'. SPECTRE wasn't as good as Skyfall, but it was better than a lot of others in the franchise for my money. I thought Mendes was absolutely not an option, and his return isn't essential. But never say never.

Well, I'm not all that hot on this Dark Knight thingy, so...

But the major difference here would seem to me that these three films were very much what Nolan had in mind from the go; it was the story he wanted to tell.

With Mendes I'm sure he influenced SKYFALL's and SPECTRE's scripts, but hardly in the way Nolan did with Batman.

I would be much more positive about a return of Mendes - if there was reason to believe he was not yet allowed to make the Bond film he wanted. But frankly, is there any evidence for that?

To the contrary, he made the film he wanted to make, twice.

So...

Mind you, Mendes does have some advantages, SecretAgentFan pointed some out already. But it's not necessarily a given the return of Mendes would help along the series, provide a closure for Craig's Bond or make adequate use of Blofeld and Spectre.

[SecretAgentFan]

One should distinguish between Mendes being a creative factor that would help turn BOND 25 into a great movie (maybe, maybe not, definitely not essential IMO) and being a great incentive for BOND 25 to happen with Craig and to happen sooner rather than later.

 

I don´t think that Craig would return for more than one more film, so getting the chance to really wrap things up with Craig and Blofeld would be enough for me to say: okay, do it.

 

I also don´t think that Mendes would remain the go-to-guy after BOND 25.  It seems to be a given that there is one more CraigBond in the cards - but afterwards there will be a new actor, with a new director and creative team.  At least due to the timespan between films now: with BOND 25 to be expected in 2018/9 and BOND 26 in 2021-23 there´s no way Craig would still be Bond 5-7 years from now.

[Dustin]

I can see that, Mendes being on board would be going a long way to getting Craig back for BOND 25*, probably even if the script saw 007 fighting Humpty Dumpty and the seven dwarves.

Still, remains to be seen whether or not that would finally blow some life into the MGM corpse...


*I cannot even imagine a situation where Mendes returns and Craig does not. Can anybody?