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MGM: 007 films to come out on a 3-4 year cycle


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#421 Surrie

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 01:14 PM

In that Sony guys slight defense, when they had definite in put (between CR and QOS then between SF and SP) they did get films started up quickly. We would have had Bond 24 in 2014 if they didn't want Mendes to return as much as they did. 

 

I actually do hope Sony get on-board for Bond 25, I've actually enjoyed the marketing run of Daniel Craig's films and their general approach to Bond. Also their studio interference is minor league compared to others.

 

I'm with you on this Orion. Studio interference would be a large factor in my decision making process if I was Eon. 



#422 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 01:58 PM

Sony accepted because they also got all of the Spider-man movie rights still owned by MGM, (it's mentioned in the book the art and making of Spider-man) 

 

Oh.  Now that explains a lot.



#423 sharpshooter

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 03:26 AM

 

Based on nothing, 2018 is my guess.

I hope so, otherwise they have to find Bond number 7.

 

I'm not sure about that. Craig is older now, of course, but he did wait around for a while after Quantum of Solace. 



#424 Surrie

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 05:09 PM

 

 

Based on nothing, 2018 is my guess.

I hope so, otherwise they have to find Bond number 7.

 

I'm not sure about that. Craig is older now, of course, but he did wait around for a while after Quantum of Solace. 

 

 

I hope we do see him wait around. Who says we have to have a new actor in the role as soon as Eon/MGM are unable to churn out a regular series of Bond movies. If Craig stays despite a quick turn around between films, then it would be testament to his character and love of working with the Bond family. 



#425 S K Y F A L L

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:14 PM

 

 

 

Based on nothing, 2018 is my guess.

I hope so, otherwise they have to find Bond number 7.

 

I'm not sure about that. Craig is older now, of course, but he did wait around for a while after Quantum of Solace. 

 

 

I hope we do see him wait around. Who says we have to have a new actor in the role as soon as Eon/MGM are unable to churn out a regular series of Bond movies. If Craig stays despite a quick turn around between films, then it would be testament to his character and love of working with the Bond family. 

 

I'm hoping there is a chance for a 2019 release. 

Otherwise they might want to move on.

Can they really make us wait 5 years for a DC film? Hope it does not involve Craig's Bond coming out of retirement. 



#426 Surrie

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:23 PM

 

 

 

 

Based on nothing, 2018 is my guess.

I hope so, otherwise they have to find Bond number 7.

 

I'm not sure about that. Craig is older now, of course, but he did wait around for a while after Quantum of Solace. 

 

 

I hope we do see him wait around. Who says we have to have a new actor in the role as soon as Eon/MGM are unable to churn out a regular series of Bond movies. If Craig stays despite a quick turn around between films, then it would be testament to his character and love of working with the Bond family. 

 

I'm hoping there is a chance for a 2019 release. 

Otherwise they might want to move on.

Can they really make us wait 5 years for a DC film? Hope it does not involve Craig's Bond coming out of retirement. 

 

 

I can't imagine they would make us wait 5 years, but depending on issues surrounding distributors etc. it's a possibility. If that amount of time has passed then investors may want to see a new actor, but I can't imagine Craig moaning about a gap between films if he's able to pursue other avenues during this time anyway. Although, if they play the retirement card then that would be less than imaginative. 



#427 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:31 AM

Since I obviously have too much free time on my hands I´ll return to my main squabble:

 

was SPECTRE designed with the idea that the next film would probably be many years away and require a reboot again?

 

- Craig was given an associate producer title

- the ending clearly indicated that Bond quits the service and retires

- Blofeld was introduced and arrested instead of simply fleeing.

- EON knew that the distribution deal was up again.

- Craig was tired of Bond.

- Mendes publicy stated that he has given everything he could to the franchise.

- BB is turning her energies towards producing other films and plays.

- MGW has obviously taken a back seat in the whole business.

- MGM, desperately in need for new Bond film cash, continues to calm stock holders with the most vague affirmations that there will be a new Bond film within the next few years.

 

Now, even with Craig hinting at still wanting to keep the role, he still stresses the fact that everybody is involved in other things.

 

If you look at the huge box office returns all four CraigBonds have reaped, it is quite surprising that all parties involved rather rest than move forward with a steady release schedule.  

 

This is not the way the business is usually done.

 

Imagine Marvel stopping right now, saying: oh, we´re all very tired - sure we love our jobs but right now we want to do something different.

 

Something is severely wrong behind the scenes of EON/MGM/SONY/CRAIG.



#428 Dustin

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 07:38 AM

I would say at the time SPECTRE's production probably had already an air of a break ahead, possibly/probably also with Craig bowing out for good.

But we shouldn't forget many things didn't turn out as predicted. SPECTRE didn't surpass SKYFALL, and while everybody now agrees that would have been unrealistic they were certainly at least hoping for it. Next, MGM didn't, against expectations, manage to seal a quick deal with a partner studio. That should have been cut-and-dried at least six months ago; instead, there is still no clear indication which studio would even be willing to pick up the tap for Bond.

I suppose the longer it took the more baffled everybody became. And Craig's encouraging comments one-year-after may have been directed more at possible partners for MGM than anybody else. When he's saying, he'd hate to lose the job, this means of course also that somebody's got to come over and kick off the thing. He might have been successful with that, who knows?

Meanwhile, other things happened and nobody can yet be sure how they will affect them. Most of what we hear could also have repercussions on the entertainment industry. In this kind of climate it's difficult to make decisions that will commit time, effort and funds for six, eight or even ten years. It will likely take some time into next year until the studios can work out which direction to take with their investments. I doubt MGM will be able to secure a deal before that.

But overall I think SPECTRE just kind of drifted into the slot it is in now, a maybe-farewell, in plain sight of everybody, but with nobody realising what happened.

#429 Simon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:32 AM

 

 

I can't imagine they would make us wait 5 years, but...........

 

...bearing in mind there is Already a precedent for such?

 

As for SAF's list, I think the only clear thing is that MGM don't have a distribution deal worth advertising.  The rest is all supposition.  Until then, everyone rests or dies other things.  Not sure that indicates that Everything is Wrong...



#430 Dustin

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:30 AM





I can't imagine they would make us wait 5 years, but...........


...bearing in mind there is Already a precedent for such?

As for SAF's list, I think the only clear thing is that MGM don't have a distribution deal worth advertising. The rest is all supposition. Until then, everyone rests or dies other things. Not sure that indicates that Everything is Wrong...

Not everything, but surely something.

The real hurdle for things advancing may be the fact a studio can sign whatever deal they want with MGM - yet it doesn't give them control about the schedule for Bond. This may not seem like much, but it has the potential to turn into an ugly nuisance quickly enough. Of course studios would like to have such a franchise as present on the screen as humanly possible, that's a given. But here it means asking them to basically sit ready on their money as long as it takes for all others to agree on a project; anything from two years to four or more. That's not a situation a studio would like to be in, ever. And certainly not, while productions have become so heavy that even a slightly lesser b.o. can potentially threaten a strategy.

I dare say if there was a way to guarantee at least one new film every 36 months, with variable percentages of the profits if a production can be finished within 24 months, this would possibly help a big deal...

#431 Simon

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:56 PM

Well, while money-scarce MGM still has half the Bond ownership, and thereby, one might assume, the responsibility to pony up half the production costs come the need (however these are worked out), then this will never have a guarantee.

 

But, before the above needs to be considered, they still don't have the other dependency; this of the distribution deal.

 

All seems less than an attractive position to be in.  One of the world's most successful franchises tied inextricably to one of the world's currently least successful studios.  Feel sorry for Eon really.  Which is to say, they actually May want to get on with another Bond, but until their hands are untied, there is no current need.  And so they either rest or do something else.



#432 Dustin

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:09 PM

Thing is, that distribution deal is not really a hot asset, Bond excluded. It's not as if MGM was going to ramp a whole barrage of interesting new and original productions; at best they are so-so and hardly worth the trouble if you neither have much influence on the production itself, nor the lion's share of the profits. It would be more attractive if MGM had other interesting material and franchises on their list of goodies - only they don't.

#433 Orion

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:19 PM

They do own Tomb Raider rights, the stock for which WILL change after Christmas. Whether is lessens or becomes an attractive proposition really depends of how Assassin's Creed does. Warner Brothers is their distributing partner for that at the moment, but a successful franchise that ISN'T Bond will change MGM's negotiating position.



#434 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:47 PM

I´ll predict that "Assasin´s Creed" will at best be a middling success, if not a flop domestic-wise.  Maybe it will do better business overseas - but really, that kind of stuff is too dreary to crossover and therefore niche fodder.

 

As for Bond 25 - since every other major lucrative franchise is still looking and planning ahead, despite Brexit or Trump.  That should not be a problem right now for EON / MGM.



#435 Orion

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:18 PM

I would agree that AS is a difficult sell to many, I'd say it's best chances for success are in Fassbender as a draw (which is what marketing seems to be leaning on so far) or it actually being a really good film a word of mouth doing it major favors (like say similar hard sells "The Matrix" or "Guardians of The Galaxy")



#436 Surrie

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:05 PM

I can't help but feel a little sorry for Eon - if only half hadn't been sold to MGM. I suppose BB and MGW have long since gotten over this, which is why BB turns her attention to other projects occasionally. 



#437 Dustin

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:01 PM

I suppose for Eon house the really important thing is how they kept most of the creative control. If that hadn't been the case we'd likely have seen a whole host of studio-imposed interference that could have been even worse than the troubles we are aware of today.

Making films is always a struggle, up to a point - but making them against the studio must be a nightmare that can turn even dedicated enthusiasts sour in a pretty short time. If Eon hadn't got this kind of control I doubt Broccoli and Wilson would have kept in the Bond business.

As is, they are frequently confronted with uncertainty on the side of their partners, which must be a pain. But up to now they always came back for more, with the next generation apparently eager to take over in time.

I don't doubt Eon would prefer a different arrangement. But as long as they are THE driving force behind the series they seem willing to put up with the nuisance that comes with the current partnership.

#438 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 07:12 AM

Absolutely.  We should never forget that EON has been the most important element from the start and over the last, well in 2017 it will be 55 years for Bond films.

 

At some point in the near future it is very likely that BB will produce with Greg Wilson - and that will guarantee a welcome continuity.

 

To think that a studio could have taken over, especially MGM - I´m pretty sure we would not have liked what we would have gotten then.

 

However, I wonder how much creative control really has been there for EON during the making of SPECTRE.  According to the Sony leaks there was lots of interference, and I was surprised that a studio which has merely a bad distribution deal could be so involved in the script development.  One can imagine how dreadful the notes by MGM must have been then.

 

So that would be the interesting question here: is EON´s control mainly based on the rights to Bond films?  How much can they push back if studios demand certain things?



#439 Orion

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 08:30 AM

Mendes adressed this in the Empire featre on Spectre - BB told him he could ignore the notes If he wanted, they were against the clock as it was.



#440 Dustin

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 09:12 AM

I think lots of Sony's complaints were just for the record. After all they got plenty of bills for this venture, so it's just a matter of conduct and grace to listen to them. From what little we know Eon seem to be open for suggestions - but whether or not they have any consequence seems more or less up to them. If a studio really wants to force a point - like maybe who is cast as 007 - it appears they have to refuse to finance the entire production; not a great option when you want to earn money with Bond...

#441 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:42 AM

True - but it seems to depend on how well the films are received.  SPECTRE was a huge hit even if it did not surpass SKYFALL.  All CraigBonds were highly lucrative, as were the BrosnanBonds - so that seems to give EON lots of wriggle room to ignore notes.  Still, at which point will this change?

 

The later Moore years and the Dalton years definitely put EON under pressure to deliver films with lower budget.  Even SPECTRE - and this after the behemoth of SKYFALL - had to be written down to keep costs down (and this was one demand made by Sony).  Something which IMO definitely hurt the last act horribly.

 

Looking into my crystal ball I am inclined to say that the current impasse is a tug of war surrounding the question of who will be Bond.  Not only in BOND 25 but the future two installments which are probably part of the renegotiations for a distribution deal (these always include three or four films, it seems).

 

So even if Craig now leans towards coming back for BOND 25 it seems very unlikely that he will also do 26 and 27.  That might be the tricky aspect of the distribution situation because this includes the risk of having another Dalton on their hands.  And without Amy Pascal on friendly terms with BB, supporting her decisions, her successor Tom Rothman is a very controversial guy, known for execessive meddling and hated for it.  He certainly won´t allow BB any choice if he disapproves - and maybe that is one more factor for EON to wait things out.

 

See this article on Tom Rothman: http://variety.com/2...man-1201904528/



#442 Dustin

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:00 AM

It's a bit of a mystery for me why they tried to save money on the last act - when the much more natural solution would have been to cut down the entire film by half an hour at least. Where does the need for this overlong running time come from? Since when do Bond films have to take on Lord of the Rings entires? In my opinion it would be vastly preferable to have a story told within 2 hours, maximum. That should have saved costs drastically and would have profited the entire story. It's not that complicated or complex.

Very interesting info on Rothman. Small wonder there is no hurry to go into a clinch with him.

I think any studio would like to do a Bond film with Craig, simply because he's been a hell of a good choice for the role - and even in his lesser films is still one of the best things about them. But most will want more than just a single film, which is at the moment all we can realistically expect from Craig. I'd say a studio might chance to sit it out if they had already somebody up their sleeves who could take over for BOND 25 and subsequent films. Somebody they think they can sell to Eon - or who was even Eon's choice to begin with.

Conversely, a studio that has not already their own candidate - or is in doubt whether Broccoli would agree - would be better off to move now, make BOND 25 with Craig and hope to establish a connection with Eon during that project which would help them with voicing their mind about possible candidates after Craig.

#443 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:20 AM

I agree wholeheartedly.  The whole bloated length of blockbusters nowadays seems to equal the idea in the book industry which operates on the principle: if people buy a book they want at least 500 pages, otherwise they don´t consider it worth its price.

 

With all those epic films (which IMO don´t deserve the label epic) it seems that studios think: hey, if we throw a huge one at the audience they will consider it more important than the usual 90/100 minute film of yesterday.

 

I would have cut the whole "Bond and Madeleine drink and sleep in the hotel suite, speak with a mouse and find a (gasp!) hidden room"-part, and the extremely slowgoing "okay, we are at a train stop in the middle of nowhere, and now... we wait"-part.  And the finale could have easily taken place inside Blofeld´s lair.

 

Also, the previous drafts had Q captured and held in Blofeld´s base, with him and Bond having to escape and free Madeleine.  Much better than the silly and extremely short footchase during which Q can outmaneuver the henchmen so easily.



#444 Dustin

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:38 AM

Let's face it, how realistic is it that you can keep your audience's attention over 2 hrs 40 minutes? Few films manage this - and most of the more recent ones are completely blown out of proportion by huge action-CGI-fests. 'Epic' in the real sense, that's what a film like The Big Country (almost the same running time) was. And even that is a relatively simple story which you can largely guess from the first five minutes; the epic scale comes from the angles, the time the film takes to introduce its protagonists, the pace, slowly-but-inevitably reaching its climax.

None of that is really present in SPECTRE. A lot happens, but not a lot of it helps along the story, the climax is divided into three scenes, without concern for the overall tale. The best thing perhaps, the one I like the most about it now, is the bridge scene. Remarkably low-key and atmospheric. It should have been the last scene - and in an ideal world the whole film would have followed this example.

#445 sharpshooter

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:41 AM

For all the money spent on SPECTRE, the best scene, in my opinion, is the train fight.

#446 Dustin

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:58 AM

The fight is great, even though it puts a dent into the logic of the story. I also like the pts, which has a similar problem with logic but moves quickly enough so we don't ponder the whole thing too much.

But the moment on the bridge has impact, emotion and symbolism. Effectively the film ends there.

#447 Orion

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:51 PM

The thing with film length is a personal preference thing, I tend to prefer films to have a good bit of length to them, as apparantly does Mendes, whilst Marc Forster actualy stated that he wanted to keep QOS to shorter length. Same thing with the quality of the films contents - I for one loved Spectre's final act, really enjoying the symbolism of it all, and the moment SAF said he didnt like - the two quieter moments with Madeline in the Hotel than later the train, where actually my favourite moments in the film with Bond, for the first time since Vesper, glimpsing life away from Mi6. Again this is just personal prefernce, and, as with all opinion on art, cannot be stated as superior or inferior to anything else, no matter how strong you feel your opinion.



#448 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 01:30 PM

I find it curious that until the 00´s (no pun intended) cinema owners dreaded films with long running times since it limited the amount of showings per day.  That´s one reason why the 140 minutes of OHMSS cut into its box office revenues.  (By the way, OHMSS earns its epic feel.)

 

These days, everything has become bloated - and the cinemas just keep charging more for films that run longer, just as they charge for 3D which only a fraction of moviegoers actually want.

 

For me the question is: does a Bond film need to be an epic?  Only if the story needs it.  OHMSS actually told one big enough.  SPECTRE could have told one big enough.  But the actual story - Bond finds his enemy is his stepbrother - was sidestepped, always aluded to it but never really went for it.  Instead many scenes felt substituted for other scenes that could have been more important.

 

Yes, sorry, I have the time and somehow the urge to do this - so I try to explain what I meant in more detail:

 

- The PTS is still on track, Bond follows M´s clues, stops a terrorist attack from happening, a big action scene in an interesting scenery, well filmed - wonderful.

 

- Then the Mi6-sequence already feels troubled.  Apart from Bond being again forced out and going rogue, the introduction of C opens up a subplot that never really shines.  If the plot needs C as Blofeld´s associate, why doesn´t it ever show them together or at least conversing?  And - yes, they did in an earlier draft.  So, things were cut, even out of the script before filming, and this leaves a hole in the whole story.

 

- The rome sequence works fine, although the car chase feels truncated and not as spectacular as it should have been (Rome at night is beautiful - but the scarceness of traffic points to streets that have been closed down without enough stunt drivers filling them).

 

- The Austrian sequence - yeah, fine as well, although Bond finding Mr. White could have been more eventful, with Hinx already appearing and fighting Bond.  Then the meeting with Madeleine, good dialogue between them both, but the Q meets Bond at the bar... again, if you put Q in the field, give him more to do than this and definitely don´t try to raise tension by idiot goons who can be outsmarted so fast.  A much bigger sequence was in the script - and Q was captured as it should have been.

 

- Morocco.  What´s the purpose of this sequence?  Bond and Madeleine growing more accustomed to each other and finding a clue to where Blofeld might be.  Yes, there is some nice aspect to a big blockbuster basically stopping and having leisure time.  But this is not working at all.  Madeleine could have given Bond a clue already in Austria - and they could easily have cut to the train sequence which would have accomplished the Bond bonding with Madeleine as well.

 

- Then the "oh, let´s wait for an oldtimer to pick us up"-scene.  Whoever came up with that idea?  Bond acting with basically no real idea what to do?  Oh, he did presume that even a little lobotomy would not keep him from gunning down everybody?  - There´s no different scene in the script - but it should have been conceived.  Something clever for Bond and Madeleine so that they could have approached the base by themselves and then maybe taken prisoner while trying to get in?

 

- The whole Bond meets Oberhauser/Blofeld-scene.  It is not as painful as it could have been.  But again, I prefer the script which at this point offers not only a more psychological duel between Bond and his step-brother/archenemy (which is the whole point of the film!) but also sets up a much more interesting (visually and actionwise) finale in London, with Blofeld taking Madeleine to London as a hostage.  Also there is a certain Irma Bunt who adds to the henchmen-threat immensely.

 

To sum things up:  the whole film seems to have started (or have been developed during the later stages of writing) as something much more interesting.  But take something away here and there, substitute it with less impressive scenes... and we get what we got.



#449 Dustin

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 01:51 PM

The torture sequence in my opinion not only lacks impact because Bond recovers so fast and escapes near effortlessly, the problem lies deeper: it's basically useless because it's just there for the sake of it. It's Blofeld's only evil action that we witness - and even this he does sitting at a keyboard at the other end of the room.

Compare to this CR's, Le Chiffre is right there with Bond, sweating through the entire scene not much less than Bond does. And most important: he wants to have something inside Bond's head, something Bond cannot give or Vesper and he would both be dead.

SPECTRE's torture scene should have matched this, Blofeld should have needed something from Bond, maybe even something Bond doesn't have. Instead it's just a bit of going through the motions.

Or better even, let Blofeld start out with the intent to turn Bond into a cabbage, then let Bond mention something he knows Blofeld is dying to know, so Blofeld can neither kill him nor damage his brain without destroying the information he wants.

#450 SecretAgentFan

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 02:43 PM

Definitely, those would have been great ideas for that.

 

When I saw the film for the first time and Blofeld announces that the needle will take away Bond´s memory if applied right I immediately knew that it would NOT be applied right.

 

If you want to build up a credible threat to a hero you cannot threaten him with something that the audience knows won´t happen.  Blofeld would have appeared much more evil if he had actually tortured Madeleine that way, taking away her memory of Bond.  That reversal, with Bond forced to watch, would have been truly maniacal - and fitting, since Bond mostly leaves women and does not look back.

 

A final act in which Madeleine is turned against Bond, made into a puppet by Blofeld - oh, that would have been something fresh and interesting.