453 replies to this topic

[Guy Haines]

To be honest, after three viewings the Blofeld backstory is bothering me less and less, if at all.

Unless you are familiar with the short story "Octopussy", the references to Franz Oberhauser - and Bond wanting Moneypenny to find everything she could about him "before and after he died" lends an air of mystery to him. If he's "dead" how come he's still alive? And how is it Bond knows who he is?

The way that Oberhauser is revealed to be Blofeld - or rather, the other way around if you think about it - I can understand why fans would find it perplexing, especially if one is familiar with ESB's background from the novel Thunderball. I reconcile this by reminding myself that these films, since 2006, a like a new series of Bond movies, and the film makers have taken certain liberties with familiar characters whilst keeping the essentials true to themselves.

Thus, M is a former SAS Colonel, not a retired admiral. Q is a youthful computer whiz, not a former Army officer and quartermaster. Moneypenny a former field agent rather than RN WREN and to judge from SPECTRE has a social life of her own, rather than secretly pining for 007. Tanner the efficient bureaucrat rather than ex-Army and Bond best friend in the service - though he's becoming something of an office buddy to him. Felix Leiter - probably the least changed from the previous films, save of course that like Moneypenny he's from a different ethnic background to before.

So, why did we expect Blofeld - another recurring character from the past - to escape without changes? In fact what surprised me wasn't what they changed but what was left in - the facial injury and of course the cat. I think ESB could have been re-introduced without either - Christoph Waltz is that good an actor that few would have noticed the absences. But SPECTRE was of course a film which liked to indulge a few respectful nods to the past whilst re-imaging the present.

[Messervy]

Just saw it yesterday on the first day of release in France. Mind-blowingly excellent!!!

 

I sure have to see it many other times, but suffice it to say that I found it very well written (thrilling plot) and directed, with a very welcome addition of some humour and prominence for the supporting cast (Q most specifically), nice nods to previous films and novels, etc.

 

All in all, it's really what was called for by some members here (including myself): they brought our James Bond back. It's still DC-era Bond with every great things it brought with it, yet it manages to brilliantly re-connect with the spirit of what makes Bond films Bond films. A perfect "DC-Bond & your classic Bond" blend, I think.

 

I'm sooooo delighted!

[DaveBond21]

We finally got it in Australia yesterday and I went to see it in the afternoon.

 

I am still trying to sort out my thoughts so here goes:-

 

What I loved

 

The opening shot is as good as anything in any movie - the music, the costumes, the photography, the lighting - just stunning. I love the chase through the crowds to the helicopter, reminds me of Thunderball.

 

Bond starts playing with a gun in the Q Lab

 

Rome - wonderful lighting, sinister SPECTRE meeting, Monica and then the car chase - pretty OK

 

Austria - some good action here

 

Morocco - love everything on the train, especially the Hinx fight - he's a huge guy. There is no way you'd want to fight him. Echoes of FRWL, LALD and TSWLM train fights.

 

The villain lair - great to see a proper baddie lair again. I like the Rolls Royce, the tray for the gun, the mini tour - all classic Bond moments. I love it when 007 tells Blofeld to get on with the torture as anything is better than listening to him talk.

 

The ending is better than many Bond endings - it has some proper action - I like the boat chasing the helicopter best

 

The last scene - it means that Daniel can be finished or he can continue. If it ends up being his last, then this was a fitting last scene.

 

 

 

 

Not so good

 

The music was good, but it was like a watered-down version of Skyfall. It featured my favourite action cue from that film, but it was a bit repetitive.

 

There are too many scenes of silent brooding with not much happening. We are meant to guess what the characters are thinking from standing around looking pensive. I'd rather there had been a bit more dialogue rather than little quips or three-word sentences. I'd also have preferred a longer train conversation between Bond and Madeline.

 

The car chase and plane chase are good, but they looked better in the trailer. Bond pushing the old guy along was meant to be a big laugh I think, but it wasn't.

 

Blofeld being the "author" of all Bond's pain. He keeps taunting 007 about it but Bond doesn't care that much! When Bond says anything is better than listening to him talk, I have to agree! Also I do wish that Bond had said to Blofeld at the end - "Now I am the author of all YOUR pain - especially your eye and your leg!!"

 

Moneypenny has a boyfriend???!! Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!

 

At what point did Blofeld say to his henchman, “Print off pictures of all the baddies that Bond has faced in the last few years and blu-tac them to the walls please?”. And one of them comes back and says “I can’t find a good photo of Greene!” and Blofeld replies “Just put Mr White up instead!”

 

 

 

Overall

 

 

However, overall it's a great movie - beautifully photographed. Craig is amazing as Bond - his performance is so confident and commanding.

[Simon]

Good points indeed Guy Haines.

 

Yup.  I hadn't been thinking that way.

 

But, either way, loved the film so no conflict for me to unravel.

[Vauxhall]

We finally got it in Australia yesterday and I went to see it in the afternoon.
 
I am still trying to sort out my thoughts so here goes:-
 
What I loved
 
The opening shot is as good as anything in any movie - the music, the costumes, the photography, the lighting - just stunning. I love the chase through the crowds to the helicopter, reminds me of Thunderball.
 
Bond starts playing with a gun in the Q Lab
 
Rome - wonderful lighting, sinister SPECTRE meeting, Monica and then the car chase - pretty OK
 
Austria - some good action here
 
Morocco - love everything on the train, especially the Hinx fight - he's a huge guy. There is no way you'd want to fight him. Echoes of FRWL, LALD and TSWLM train fights.
 
The villain lair - great to see a proper baddie lair again. I like the Rolls Royce, the tray for the gun, the mini tour - all classic Bond moments. I love it when 007 tells Blofeld to get on with the torture as anything is better than listening to him talk.
 
The ending is better than many Bond endings - it has some proper action - I like the boat chasing the helicopter best
 
The last scene - it means that Daniel can be finished or he can continue. If it ends up being his last, then this was a fitting last scene.
 
 
 
 
Not so good
 
The music was good, but it was like a watered-down version of Skyfall. It featured my favourite action cue from that film, but it was a bit repetitive.
 
There are too many scenes of silent brooding with not much happening. We are meant to guess what the characters are thinking from standing around looking pensive. I'd rather there had been a bit more dialogue rather than little quips or three-word sentences. I'd also have preferred a longer train conversation between Bond and Madeline.
 
The car chase and plane chase are good, but they looked better in the trailer. Bond pushing the old guy along was meant to be a big laugh I think, but it wasn't.
 
Blofeld being the "author" of all Bond's pain. He keeps taunting 007 about it but Bond doesn't care that much! When Bond says anything is better than listening to him talk, I have to agree! Also I do wish that Bond had said to Blofeld at the end - "Now I am the author of all YOUR pain - especially your eye and your leg!!"
 
Moneypenny has a boyfriend???!! Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!
 
At what point did Blofeld say to his henchman, “Print off pictures of all the baddies that Bond has faced in the last few years and blu-tac them to the walls please?”. And one of them comes back and says “I can’t find a good photo of Greene!” and Blofeld replies “Just put Mr White up instead!”
 
 
 
Overall
 
 
However, overall it's a great movie - beautifully photographed. Craig is amazing as Bond - his performance is so confident and commanding.

Glad you enjoyed, Dave. Welcome back to the spoilers section!

[DaveBond21]

 

We finally got it in Australia yesterday and I went to see it in the afternoon.
 
I am still trying to sort out my thoughts so here goes:-
 
What I loved
 
The opening shot is as good as anything in any movie - the music, the costumes, the photography, the lighting - just stunning. I love the chase through the crowds to the helicopter, reminds me of Thunderball.
 
Bond starts playing with a gun in the Q Lab
 
Rome - wonderful lighting, sinister SPECTRE meeting, Monica and then the car chase - pretty OK
 
Austria - some good action here
 
Morocco - love everything on the train, especially the Hinx fight - he's a huge guy. There is no way you'd want to fight him. Echoes of FRWL, LALD and TSWLM train fights.
 
The villain lair - great to see a proper baddie lair again. I like the Rolls Royce, the tray for the gun, the mini tour - all classic Bond moments. I love it when 007 tells Blofeld to get on with the torture as anything is better than listening to him talk.
 
The ending is better than many Bond endings - it has some proper action - I like the boat chasing the helicopter best
 
The last scene - it means that Daniel can be finished or he can continue. If it ends up being his last, then this was a fitting last scene.
 
 
 
 
Not so good
 
The music was good, but it was like a watered-down version of Skyfall. It featured my favourite action cue from that film, but it was a bit repetitive.
 
There are too many scenes of silent brooding with not much happening. We are meant to guess what the characters are thinking from standing around looking pensive. I'd rather there had been a bit more dialogue rather than little quips or three-word sentences. I'd also have preferred a longer train conversation between Bond and Madeline.
 
The car chase and plane chase are good, but they looked better in the trailer. Bond pushing the old guy along was meant to be a big laugh I think, but it wasn't.
 
Blofeld being the "author" of all Bond's pain. He keeps taunting 007 about it but Bond doesn't care that much! When Bond says anything is better than listening to him talk, I have to agree! Also I do wish that Bond had said to Blofeld at the end - "Now I am the author of all YOUR pain - especially your eye and your leg!!"
 
Moneypenny has a boyfriend???!! Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!
 
At what point did Blofeld say to his henchman, “Print off pictures of all the baddies that Bond has faced in the last few years and blu-tac them to the walls please?”. And one of them comes back and says “I can’t find a good photo of Greene!” and Blofeld replies “Just put Mr White up instead!”
 
 
 
Overall
 
 
However, overall it's a great movie - beautifully photographed. Craig is amazing as Bond - his performance is so confident and commanding.

Glad you enjoyed, Dave. Welcome back to the spoilers section!

 

Thanks mate!

 

Now I can go back through all the spoiler threads over the last few months. 

 

I actually think watching the trailer is too much, as there weren't many surprises action-wise.

[Guy Haines]

We finally got it in Australia yesterday and I went to see it in the afternoon.
 
I am still trying to sort out my thoughts so here goes:-
 What I loved
 
The opening shot is as good as anything in any movie - the music, the costumes, the photography, the lighting - just stunning. I love the chase through the crowds to the helicopter, reminds me of Thunderball.
 
Bond starts playing with a gun in the Q Lab
 
Rome - wonderful lighting, sinister SPECTRE meeting, Monica and then the car chase - pretty OK
 
Austria - some good action here
 
Morocco - love everything on the train, especially the Hinx fight - he's a huge guy. There is no way you'd want to fight him. Echoes of FRWL, LALD and TSWLM train fights.
 
The villain lair - great to see a proper baddie lair again. I like the Rolls Royce, the tray for the gun, the mini tour - all classic Bond moments. I love it when 007 tells Blofeld to get on with the torture as anything is better than listening to him talk.
 
The ending is better than many Bond endings - it has some proper action - I like the boat chasing the helicopter best
 
The last scene - it means that Daniel can be finished or he can continue. If it ends up being his last, then this was a fitting last scene.
 
 
 
 Not so good
 
The music was good, but it was like a watered-down version of Skyfall. It featured my favourite action cue from that film, but it was a bit repetitive.
 
There are too many scenes of silent brooding with not much happening. We are meant to guess what the characters are thinking from standing around looking pensive. I'd rather there had been a bit more dialogue rather than little quips or three-word sentences. I'd also have preferred a longer train conversation between Bond and Madeline.
 
The car chase and plane chase are good, but they looked better in the trailer. Bond pushing the old guy along was meant to be a big laugh I think, but it wasn't.
 
Blofeld being the "author" of all Bond's pain. He keeps taunting 007 about it but Bond doesn't care that much! When Bond says anything is better than listening to him talk, I have to agree! Also I do wish that Bond had said to Blofeld at the end - "Now I am the author of all YOUR pain - especially your eye and your leg!!"
 
Moneypenny has a boyfriend???!! Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!
 
At what point did Blofeld say to his henchman, “Print off pictures of all the baddies that Bond has faced in the last few years and blu-tac them to the walls please?”. And one of them comes back and says “I can’t find a good photo of Greene!” and Blofeld replies “Just put Mr White up instead!”
 
 
 Overall
 
 
However, overall it's a great movie - beautifully photographed. Craig is amazing as Bond - his performance is so confident and commanding.

Glad you enjoyed, Dave. Welcome back to the spoilers section!

Thanks mate!
 
Now I can go back through all the spoiler threads over the last few months. 
 
I actually think watching the trailer is too much, as there weren't many surprises action-wise.

But the trailers did provide a bit of misdirection such as;

"You've got a secret, something you can't tell anyone, because you don't trust anyone" - not really, as it turned out, Bond's teenage years in Austria but an unexpected message from beyond the grave and;

"Do you know what links them all?" "Me" - well yes, but actually no - the finished film refers to Oberhauser.

[Silva25]

And the implications in the trailer probably would have been SO MUCH more interesting to be honest.

[sharpshooter]

I prefer how the film played out, rather than the trailer misdirection. There's still an emotional connection between hero and villain, but it's not as strong as people were thinking. Nor is the connective tissue between the other Craig films as strong as people suggested. Yes, other villains were SPECTRE agents, but "the author of all your pain" comment doesn't suggest anything more than a taunt. The links to Bond/Blofeld and CR/QoS/SF are there, and can be analysed if people wish, but at the core, I think this is an entertaining Bond movie. 

[Guy Haines]

I prefer how the film played out, rather than the trailer misdirection. There's still an emotional connection between hero and villain, but it's not as strong as people were thinking. Nor is the connective tissue between the other Craig films as strong as people suggested. Yes, other villains were SPECTRE agents, but "the author of all your pain" comment doesn't suggest anything more than a taunt. The links to Bond/Blofeld and CR/QoS/SF are there, and can be analysed if people wish, but at the core, I think this is an entertaining Bond movie.

Agree with this post. I wonder if the previous script drafts made more of a play on this Bond/Oberhauser-Blofeld childhood link but that as the re-writes went on it became less and less important, to the point where once the big reveal happens it's just apassing issue? It seems like that in the film and frankly it is better for it. Bond just wants confirmation that the man he saw in Rome is Franz Oberhauser, but an explanation of how he came to be "dead" but alive. "I came here to kill you" - because of what SPECTRE is doing? The people Bond lost - including those blown up in the MI6 attack? Or even further back than that - he suspects that Oberhauser may have murdered his father, whom Bond treated as a father figure. (Something that just occurred to me actually - "author of all your pain" could include Franz killing Hannes, another person who was important in Bond's life.)

But it's all treated in passing. When Oberhauser finally reveals his new identity, Bond's reaction is almost "so what?" He's got what he wanted - confirmation of the head of SPECTRE, and by a strange co-incidence it is someone he knew a long time ago.

[sharpshooter]

I have to say Whishaw has successfully taken the mantle of Q, making the role his own. I don't feel Desmond's ghost lingering over his portrayal because they've gone for something quite different but still recognisable. Whishaw is a top performer and adept at humour, and had more of a chance to shine in SPECTRE. I'm hoping they hold onto him for a while yet.

[Mike00spy]

Like others have pointed out, I am glad that the personal side of this film really comes from the villain instead of Bond. Even Bond's "rouge mission" comes from orders by Dench's M. I do think Malory could have been worked into the script to have him as a willing partner earlier on, but the final results are fine, not insultingly disastrous as QoS's handling.

[DaveBond21]

IMO, this film would have been better served with an uptempo, "You Know My Name"-style title song rather than a ballad. But really that's my only quibble. Great fun! I'd rank it third in Craig's run, and I like all four films ... not equally, but for different reasons.

 

I agree with this. I wanted to see Adele back doing something along the lines of her "Rolling in the Deep". 

[byline]

 

IMO, this film would have been better served with an uptempo, "You Know My Name"-style title song rather than a ballad. But really that's my only quibble. Great fun! I'd rank it third in Craig's run, and I like all four films ... not equally, but for different reasons.

 

I agree with this. I wanted to see Adele back doing something along the lines of her "Rolling in the Deep". 

 

Same here.

[FlemingBond]

Me three.

[The Shark]

Me four.

[Hockey Mask]

High five!

[DaveBond21]

You've had your six

[MattofSteel]

I can't get believe I get to be seven I should do something really clever just like Bond's number oh wait DAMNIT

[x007AceOfSpades]

I suppose this makes me eight then.

[Professor Pi]

009!

[the other fellow]

Number ten is making ugly noises

[New Digs]

I wanted to like Spectre so much, but feel disappointed. I cannot help but think of the immense possibilities of being able to use Blofeld and what we got was a true waste. Waltz spent too much time trying to EMPHASISE villainy. It may not be his fault, as he wasn't given much screen time. My idea of Blofeld is that he should simply BE evil. He is the arch villain, the nemesis. He has nothing to prove. And the 'cuckoo' line was just awful. 

I found the photography too dark, the locations wasted and no real threat throughout most of the film. The reliance of Blofeld being the author of evil in the past three films was just too convenient and came across as lazy. Is that really the best the writers could do? 

On the positive side Craig was excellent and nice to see him enjoy himself a bit. I like the humour and thought the ending was solid and the only point of the film where I sensed the audience was engaged with what was on the screen. Harris, Whishaw, Feinnes and particularly Andrew Scott were excellent. Scott should have been the main villain; he was far more effective than Blofeld. 

Edited by New Digs, 21 November 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[FlemingBond]

Okay, i finally saw it. 

my thoughts, partially on style, partially on substance:

 

The opening continuous shot was great, and memorable. the PTS was. good. I didn't really get why Bond grabbed the ring of the guy that leads to the rest of the story?? and Dench's M....she sends Bond information, but how did she get it? Someone must have provided her the intel.

The title song....there have been some mediocre Bond songs, but that one is bad. It's one of 2 or 3 thing's that are cringe worthy. Men hitting high notes i've heard, but Sam Smith there ....not  good. The credits end up not being good either. Octopus wrapping around a girl ends up looking creepy. Bond titles use to be sexy. from the Brosnan to the Craig era they really havn't been sexy.

The film , i would say, has a downward arc. Opening very good, just sort of slide's downward in the last 20 minutes.

I've seen comment's about the comedy. I didn't notice it being that out of place compared to the other Craig movies. I saw people saying Dominic Greene was ignored as some sort of slight to Quantum of Solace. Well he's onscreen, his name is spoken and seen so i didn't get that. 

The car was cool, the chase was pretty good, although i did wonder fairly quickly why Bond didn't just get out and shoot it out with Hinx ?

The clinic Madeline was at? Intentional nod to OHMSS?

I liked the mention of Felix...

The music...well some of the recycled stuff was okay but seemed like almost nothing new. During the closing credits i almost thought the music from Skyfall's credits would start playing. Seriously

The MI6 building being demolished....it seemed like the explosion was just in one room or section. why demolish the whole building. Seems rather strange considering it's a real place to have it gone in Bond's london.

Tying Spectre to the previous films i didn't think was a good idea, but i didn't think it worked out too badly. Blofeld saying he caused it all i took as a rather flippant remark more than reality. Plus they never really spelled out the difference between Quantum and SPECTRE.

 

Big problem was two thing's. One, the plot has been done a lot recently I havn't noticed anyone else commenting that SPECTRE here is basically like Hydra from Captain America : The Winter Soldier. Evil organization inside causing havoc  to take over the world with surveillance. Seems like the surveillance storyline has been done in recent years. Bond as a rogue, MI6 being done away with all end up feeling like they've been done before somehow. I come away feeling like they're  not only copying themselves but other movies too.

By the time i saw the film i had told myself okay i'll give it a shot without preconceived notions. It's expertly shot, looks great, good direction. The part at Lucia's home was excellent. Ultimately what brings the film down is Blofeld/Oberhauser and Waltz.  The backstory ends up making him look like one of those deranged teenagers that shoot up  a school. Not to mention it's all brought up and thrown away so fast i don't think the audience cared much more than Bond did. It's like someone getting offended, holding onto it for decade's and meanwhile the person that slighted them had no idea they even did anything. Also he killed his father and took his mother's name...very similar to Elektra King.

The torture scene was ..weird....Actually Madeline saying she loved Bond others have said was not believable but i thought she might of just been doing it because of his situation at that moment.The cat ended up feeling less silly than Blofeld himself. The theater i saw it only had about 20 people for the showing but i almost expected someone to burst into laughter when Blofeld was onscreen near the end. The scar and the eye were not a good idea. By the time he ends the film on the bridge crawling instead of being this Number 1 badguy of all time he comes off pathetic. He's crazy, as crazy as Silva was. Blofeld was never crazy. I don't even think Pleasance's version was 'crazy'. Even Bond calling him "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" to M felt off somehow.

Then Bond goes off with Madeline (never can really believe they could put that Aston back together, come on)

I'm guessing this leads into the next movie as we know Bond can never be with someone permanently, but if they kill her off it will just seem too redundant in the Craig era.

Edited by FlemingBond, 22 November 2015 - 08:44 PM.

[S K Y F A L L]

Was just thinking it could have been funny had Q taken out the goons following him with a silly gadget.

[DaveBond21]

The cat ended up feeling less silly than Blofeld himself. The theater i saw it only had about 20 people for the showing but i almost expected someone to burst into laughter when Blofeld was onscreen near the end. The scar and the eye were not a good idea. By the time he ends the film on the bridge crawling instead of being this Number 1 badguy of all time he comes off pathetic. He's crazy, as crazy as Silva was. Blofeld was never crazy. I don't even think Pleasance's version was 'crazy'. Even Bond calling him "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" to M felt off somehow.

 

 

That 2nd last scene with Blofeld on the ground is meant to show how jealous he is of Bond and his new girlfriend. He does indeed look pathetic, but he looks like he realises that he will never be as comfortable with the way things work out as James Bond is. He wants to be the "author of all Bond's pain" and gloat about it but firstly Bond makes fun of his speech during the torture, and then he ends up with a happy ending, going off into the sunset. This really irks Blofeld more than anything.

[dirtymind]

Big problem was two thing's. One, the plot has been done a lot recently I havn't noticed anyone else commenting that SPECTRE here is basically like Hydra from Captain America : The Winter Soldier. Evil organization inside causing havoc  to take over the world with surveillance. Seems like the surveillance storyline has been done in recent years. 

SecretAgentFan and I have noticed the same thing in another topic. The idea has been done to death.

 

 

I disagree - it did make sense.  Total surveillance, controlled by those who want to use it for their own gains, would be a global nightmare.

 

My gripe: it is not a really fresh idea and has been done to death by so many tv shows in the last decade.  It also reminded me of Carver´s scheme in TND.

 

Bond villains should have a really new take on diabolical plans.

And don't forget Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Members of HYDRA (SPECTRE) infiltrate SHIELD (SIS) to gain control over Project Insight (Nine Eyes).

 

 

[Guy Haines]

Big problem was two thing's. One, the plot has been done a lot recently I havn't noticed anyone else commenting that SPECTRE here is basically like Hydra from Captain America : The Winter Soldier. Evil organization inside causing havoc  to take over the world with surveillance. Seems like the surveillance storyline has been done in recent years.

SecretAgentFan and I have noticed the same thing in another topic. The idea has been done to death.
 

I disagree - it did make sense.  Total surveillance, controlled by those who want to use it for their own gains, would be a global nightmare.
 
My gripe: it is not a really fresh idea and has been done to death by so many tv shows in the last decade.  It also reminded me of Carver´s scheme in TND.
 
Bond villains should have a really new take on diabolical plans.

And don't forget Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Members of HYDRA (SPECTRE) infiltrate SHIELD (SIS) to gain control over Project Insight (Nine Eyes).

Although the acronym wasn't wasn't in the movie, it strikes me that the new SPECTRE is, through its deeds in this film and the previous ones, living up to the following;

Counter-intelligence - the whole inflitration of Nine Eyes, allowing SPECTRE a head start against government intelligence.

Terrorism - the bombing plot in CR; economic terrorism via Le Chiffre's admittedly unofficial schemes, and his role as the banker for terrorists, plus Greene's attempts to control water and Silva's cyber-attacks.

Revenge - through Silva and the attack on MI6 and the stalking and ultimate death of the former M.

Extortion; the blackmail of Vesper Lynd; the extortionate rates charged for water supply in Bolivia and potentially elsewhere; and the potential for blackmail and extortion through total surveillance and the corruption of Nine Eyes.

[sharpshooter]

Good post. SPECTRE also use terrorism against South Africa, trying to convince them by force to vote for Nine Eyes.

[Professor Pi]

And I think Silva "rigging an election in Uganda" where the opening of CR is set strongly suggests he was in the employ of SPECTRE, at least at one point.