317 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

Do I think Logan original script had some ideas that pushed the outer envelope? Maybe. Do I think that's why P&W (associated with 5 films and 15 years with EON) were brought back in? Probably.

 

Do I think Babs and Mike are going to kill the golden goose? No way.

 

I think that this is probably where we're at with regards to the state of SPECTRE.  I would imagine that bringing in P&W would be a way of getting things back towards a more neutral center, as opposed to the extremes that Logan may have taken things.  It doesn't sound like anyone was all that happy with the initial draft that Logan turned in, and they really could have turned to anyone to fix it, but they went back to the well and brought back P&W.

 

Regardless of what one might think of P&W's writing ability, I think it's pretty clear that they know the Bond character and Fleming's novels quite well.  My thought would be that this might be a reverse situation of what we saw with Casino Royale, where Haggis took P&W's more seemingly more faithful take on Fleming's novel (if I recall, they've alluded to this in a few interviews) and took it in a slightly different direction in certain places (most notably the final act at the sinking house).  Now, we could be faced with P&W coming in to reign things back into something more in line with something that's more Fleming-inspired, i.e. how the SPECTRE organization works, their motivations, etc.

[Call Billy Bob]

I'm about 70/30 on "The leaks are from an earlier draft/the final film will be like this" now. If it does end up like the storyline/plot of the leaks, I don't know if I can even... reading that stuff made me think "Do they seriously want me to stop being a Bond fan?!?"

[Harmsway]

As I've said before, I suspect we'll find that many of the details have shifted.

 

That said, I'm confirmed in my belief that the central "twist" here holds true for the finished film. I'd also be surprised if the ending had been substantially altered, because it seems as though everything has been designed around it. It's also worth noting that the comments in the leaks suggest that the parties involved in these talks very much want to keep both the central twist and the bold finale even as they suggest further rewrites are required to help support those ideas.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

DELETED

As I've said before, I suspect we'll find that many of the details have shifted.

 

That said, I'm confirmed in my belief that the central "twist" here holds true for the finished film. I'd also be surprised if the ending had been substantially altered, because it seems as though everything has been designed around it. It's also worth noting that the comments in the leaks suggest that the parties involved in these talks very much want to keep both the central twist and the bold finale even as they suggest further rewrites are required to help support those ideas.

It might work, but it certainly will be quite a pill for me as a fan (for almost 30 years considering some things to be inviolable gospel) to swallow.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 December 2014 - 04:44 PM.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

Like I said, I couldn't be more happier if I am proven wrong. And if there's anyone who could make that problematic scenario work, it's the crew they now have.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 December 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Harmsway]

As I said before, I'm as intrigued as I am concerned.

 

If you'd told me that Skyfall would conclude with Bond crying over M's body in his family chapel after strongly playing up the maternal side of their relationship, I'd have told you that it sounded like a horrible idea. In fact, on paper, it still sounds like a worse idea than anything in the SPECTRE story details (for either of the drafts mentioned in the leak). But they made it work.

 

The central twist for SPECTRE won't bug me if it's sufficiently nuanced. In the hands of a lesser team, I'd be worried, but I trust Mendes' sense of what's appropriate for Bond and what isn't. If I'm puzzled, it's mostly because I don't know what this means for the Bond franchise going forward.

[YOLT]

I think the producers hate Connery so badly that they want to reinvent everything he did. Their hatred is so big that they cannot be loyal to Ian Fleming!

[SkyfallCraig]

Are you really talking about a disastrous future for the franchise on the basis that you've read some really early stage error report of a script that si ce than had been rewrited at least twice plus some other adjustements and refinement?
REALLY?
I think this thread should be closed.

Edited by SkyfallCraig, 11 December 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[tdalton]

Yes, that's absolutely correct, the producers' hatred of an actor who last was associated with EON in the 1970s is the reason that they've rebooted the series and are doing what they're doing now. 

 

It's not as though they were exactly faithful to Fleming during Connery's tenure either, as evidenced by You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

We're worried about plot points which everyone seems to be eager to keep, since they simply stray too far.

I don't think that the Bond franchise as a business is in jeopardy.

[Call Billy Bob]

Right, it will always make money. The question is, will they continue to get mine if SPECTRE ends up being anything close to the leaked plot?

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

Right, it will always make money. The question is, will they continue to get mine if SPECTRE ends up being anything close to the leaked plot?

That is the question I've been asking myself. DAD didn't drove me away, but the potential problems with SPECTRE are different, more profound. We'll see. The situation certainly is intriguing.
Even as I might sound like a whinethrowing a tantrum I still look forward towards the film and think that even if that muck-up idea is in we're still getting a wellcrafted Bond adventure. It might be something else than we expected but still good yarn.

Edited by AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän, 11 December 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[seawolfnyy]

 

Just seen some punk on MI6 post this (I'm not a member but I see what they are up to);

 

PanchitoPistoles

3:09AMedited 3:21AM Posts: 1,829

Have any of you read how completely ridiculous the people over the commanderbond forums are about the leaks? =)) They are saying things like the plot is a mess and are whining about how terrible the film will be! Have they even realised that half the stuff is about very early drafts and even the other half contains characters that have been since then eliminated from the story? In other words, none of the leaked pages were about the final draft. What a bunch of morons...

My message to debrief.commanderbond: DIAL IT DOWN!

 

 

 

 

How DARE he....!

 

Morons? *mumble*  We don't whine, we debate...
 

 

My bad, I didn't think you guys would see that

[plankattack]

The franchise has been going on for 50+ years and will probably last at least another 50 years. Why on Earth is it so terrible that the producers want to experiment with the proven formula? After reading the comments in this thread I can't praise the movie gods enough that Bond fans are not running the franchise. It is ridiculous how close minded most people here are when it comes to Bond films.

 You should have been here when QoS came out.........!!!    

[seawolfnyy]

Seeing how enthusiasthic Sam Mendes and everyone else were during the press conference, I think it's safe to say that all the script problems have been ironed out and that they have a screenplay they are happy with. I have complete faith in Sam as a storyteller and if he is happy with the script, I have no doubt the movie won't be a failure. Comments like "My premonition is that 20 years time, SPECTRE willl be seen as the biggest blunder/squandered opportunity in the franchise." are completely ridiculous at this point.

Exactly. The movie was announced a week ago. It's been cast with some of the best actors in the business, currently. An Oscar winning director, who already directed the series' most successful entry, is leading the project. Everyone seems VERY enthusiastic about it. On top of that, it's literally been filming for 3 DAYS! Let's give it some time. Wait until we see some pictures and some footage, before we pass judgement. People here have already anointed this as the end of the Craig era and that Bond 25 will be another reboot (surely Sony learned their lesson with Spiderman....). I can't wait until October, after the film is released and we look back at this thread of people crying foul over 4 leaked emails and we all have a good laugh at how much everyone overreacted. Bring on SPECTRE, I can't wait.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

It's so easy to get carried away with controversial rumours. You are of course right seawolfnyy.

[tdalton]

I've found that it's easier just to let the film be what it is and decide when it's released whether it's good or not, having learned my lesson from Quantum of Solace.  Based on everything that was out there in the leadup to that film, I thought for sure it was going to be terrible and it turned out, for me anyway, to be one of the best films in the franchise.

 

SPECTRE may turn out to be good or it could be terrible, but I don't see EON tearing down everything that they've accomplished since bringing Craig on board.

[Marcin]

 

Is something going on that is worth actually worrying about for the Bond canon and the future? These comments are making me nervous...

Not really. I mean, Bond isn't ever going away [...

 

No?

Okay, so far I've tried not to say what I think of this idea, but if I was to answer thecasinoroyale's question yesterday, I'd say... yes. SPECTRE could kill the franchise. Not literally, of course, but it could turn it into... a joke. 

Am I overreacting? Perhaps. Probably. But that's how I felt yesterday,

Today, after cooling down a bit, I'd say that there is some dramatic potential in it. Although it'd have to be executed with a precision of a watchmaker. How? I don't know. But I still have some faith in Mendes. 

The good news are there are some really interesting ideas in leaked material. And the main plot point can be relatively easy changed or cut. The bad news is.. So far many things fit.

Yes, it's just an assumption, I get that, really. I also realize it's just a first draft or so. 

Still, let me say this: I understand and respect you guys who haven't read this material (and are not planning on doing so). But honestly (once again: assuming that it's in the final cut), I'm really glad I have. I can't imagine myself being startled like this in the theatre next November.

[Hockey Mask]

I am stunned by the reaction here.  I've read the leaks and there is no reason to scream like the sky is falling (Skyfall.  See what I did there?).  Let the professionals do their work and there will be plenty of time to overreact later.

[Admiral Messervey]

I'm about 70/30 on "The leaks are from an earlier draft/the final film will be like this" now. If it does end up like the storyline/plot of the leaks, I don't know if I can even... reading that stuff made me think "Do they seriously want me to stop being a Bond fan?!?"

Or "Do we really want Logan back?"

[Guy Haines]

I refer to the post I added this morning about the TND screen treatment which proved to be staggeringly inaccurate compared with the finished film (Admittedly they were reputedly still doing re-writes of TND when filming started, but that's another story!)

 

To say nothing of the other plot ideas that have cropped up from the word go in the series and never saw the light of day - anyone remember Dr No being revealed as the villain's pet monkey? Or Gert Frobe's return as Goldfinger's smarter twin brother in DAF? Or the intriguing reimaging of SPECTRE in the 1970s as a bunch of young radical nihilists bent on destroying the world for the hell of it?

 

It is a week since the announcement, yet we are in danger of writing the film off already on the basis of what may have been disseminated on the 'net, even though it is the case that film scripts get re-written, sometimes substantially re-written all the time in the movie business. Heaven knows it's happened in the Bond series often enough.

 

I find it difficult to believe that a film called "Spectre", with all the connotations attached to that name to which the director briefly alluded last week, won't include what we expect - the SPECTRE syndicate, an appropriate plot involving it, and possibly the involvement and appearance of SPECTRE's number one man. I say "possibly" because don't forget we had to wait for three films until we finally saw him in the 1960s - the main villain in "Spectre" may be someone other than "you know who", with the Persian cat fancier saved until Bond 25.

 

If none of the above occurs then, as I stated earlier, why call the film "Spectre"?

[Harmsway]

I am stunned by the reaction here. I've read the leaks and there is no reason to scream like the sky is falling (Skyfall. See what I did there?). Let the professionals do their work and there will be plenty of time to overreact later.

Yeah, the doomsday responses are way, way over the top.

[Call Billy Bob]

True, I may be overreacting a bit, and everything may be A-OK... but I have a strange feeling that I'm going to be punched in the gut next year.

[Harmsway]

If the franchise survived giving Jaws a girlfriend, it'll survive whatever SPECTRE dishes out.

[Call Billy Bob]

But I like Dolly!

[tdalton]

If the franchise survived giving Jaws a girlfriend, it'll survive whatever SPECTRE dishes out.

 

Indeed.

 

The franchise has survived some truly terrible films and some rather questionable sequences within those films.  It'll survive a film being made by multiple Oscar winners and some of the best actors currently working today.

[Call Billy Bob]

I'm not questioning it's survival - IMO it will never die.

 

I'm just worried about the direction it will be taking in the future.

Also, there are those of us who hold films like TMWTGG and MR in high regard!

[plankattack]

 

If the franchise survived giving Jaws a girlfriend, it'll survive whatever SPECTRE dishes out.

 

Indeed.

 

The franchise has survived some truly terrible films and some rather questionable sequences within those films.  It'll survive a film being made by multiple Oscar winners and some of the best actors currently working today.

 

 But Dalton - what if Dame Judy turned out to be everyone's mum? And it was all filmed with..............shaki-cam!!!!!

 

 

(I'm not going to lie though - this has been one of the best threads to be killing off time at work today!)

[tdalton]

 

 

If the franchise survived giving Jaws a girlfriend, it'll survive whatever SPECTRE dishes out.

 

Indeed.

 

The franchise has survived some truly terrible films and some rather questionable sequences within those films.  It'll survive a film being made by multiple Oscar winners and some of the best actors currently working today.

 

 But Dalton - what if Dame Judy turned out to be everyone's mum? And it was all filmed with..............shaki-cam!!!!!

 

 

(I'm not going to lie though - this has been one of the best threads to be killing off time at work today!)

 

 

Well, they basically did the Dench turns out to be everyone's mom angle with Skyfall and that didn't kill the franchise.  Turned into one of the most successful films ever.   

 

The shaki-cam, though, that might prove a bit more problematic.

[Guy Haines]

The leaks are leaking to the mainstream media, though nothing concerning the plot - either the showbiz hacks are on a self denying ordnance until Baz Bamigboye or the mainstream film magazines and websites report something more about "Spectre", as I imagine they will sometime soon, or they don't believe a word of what's been leaked.

 

The financial side of it, on the other hand, has attracted interest - I noticed a report in the online Daily Telegraph picked up on the $300M figure quoted.

 

The leaks are being linked according to the Telegraph, to this "Guardians Of The Peace" outfit - believed to be backed by North Korea. Is it all down to a recent Sony film making fun of the North Korean leader - or is it their belated revenge for DAD?

 

(And I seem to remember that the "dear leader"'s dear old dad was the biggest Bond fan for yards around in downtown Pyongyang - probably the only Bond fan for yards around there!)