462 replies to this topic

[MadeleineSwann]

I don't think it's even a case of lying. What's the point in them revealing their roles in the film when you can go see the film and find out. It's like being asked whether 'Bond will ask for a martini, properly unlike other films?'. Go watch the film when it comes out. That's all it is.

Edited by MadeleineSwann, 11 April 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[SecretAgentFan]

 

 

 

To have Waltz deny that he is Blofeld publicly and then reveal that as a lie would be even more annoying.

 

 

Naomie Harris denied she was playing Moneypenny on several occasions during the making of Skyfall.

 

 

Yep, that was annoying, too.

[Vauxhall]

And at the end of the day, I suspect Waltz will technically be proven right in his comments from a certain point of view.

I think the crux of the matter lies in this. There will all sorts of technicalities involved, which most of the fans doubtless won't like.

[Call Billy Bob]

If you're going to have SPECTRE, then you have to have Blofeld, otherwise, why not just make up a brand new villainous organization?

Because it's Bond and Bond/SPECTRE is like Batman/Joker. They need each other.

Maybe it is a dumb idea, but hey... I thought it might work!

[Guy Haines]

I return to my point made earlier - this "Oberhauser=Blofeld?" thing is going to run and run up to November this year simply because of the film's title, and it wasn't just a matter of internet speculation. The mainstream mass media picked up on it from the moment the title was announced - it wasn't rocket science.

 

If the film had been called, say, "Risico" then yes there would have been media interest as to whether Christoph Waltz was playing Blofeld  (The run up to the announcement of many a new Bond film had the tabloid rumour mill grinding out stories that actors from Anthony Hopkins to Kevin Spacey to Michael Sheen would be cast as ESB.) But a swift announcement that his character is called Franz Oberhauser and nothing else would have killed the connection with Blofeld stone dead, because there's no connection between "Risico" and SPECTRE. As for the "secret organisation" referred to in the film's synopsis - had the film not been given the title it has, most would have assumed Bond would be battling Quantum again.

 

By contrast if you call your Bond film "Spectre", you shouldn't be surprised if the name Blofeld crops up in questions, however hard you try and say he isn't in it.

 

Which is maybe what is intended. As others have pointed out above, it is one thing about the run up to the film which will continue to generate and retain interest from the media and the fans.

[stromberg]

Which is maybe what is intended. As others have pointed out above, it is one thing about the run up to the film which will continue to generate and retain interest from the media and the fans.

Not maybe. It's exactly what's intended. Contrary to what many people believe, Eon know exactly what they're doing. They've been in the Bond business for more than 50 years.

[Marcin]

I return to my point made earlier - this "Oberhauser=Blofeld?" thing is going to run and run up to November this year simply because of the film's title, and it wasn't just a matter of internet speculation. The mainstream mass media picked up on it from the moment the title was announced - it wasn't rocket science.

However even before title announcement I remember an article in Daily Mail saying that we'll be told Waltz is playing Franz Oberhauser, Hans' son, but in fact his character would be Ernst Stavro Blofeld. The article wasn't written by Baz Bamigboye, however so far it has been accurate. Although back then I was under the impression that all the "Oberhauser" thing would be just a hoax.
And by the way, wasn't Waltz's character the only one not named during the press conference? It has to mean something.. (or perhaps I'm just overthinking this).
Anyway, if there hasn't been any last minute changes in a script (eg. because of the leacks, which may have spoiled much of the planned twist), I'm pretty sure we're getting Blofeld in SPECTRE and that he is played by Waltz. The only question remains: why is he Franz Oberhauser and Blofeld at the same time.

Edited by Marcin, 12 April 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[Guy Haines]

Why is Oberhauser and Blofeld the same person? Assuming he is, it is a question which will leave us all wondering for months until the film finally arrives. Even those who think they know may be proved wrong in the end. (And I'm not going to stray here into spoiler territory, let alone Donald Rumsfeld's "known unknown" stuff! )

[stromberg]

We clearly have a case of Schroedinger's Blofeld here, no doubt...

[FlemingBond]

i hope he's not Blofeld.

as for the two-movie arc being jettisoned. Why bring back SPECTRE for just one film? i have to assume if they're bringing them back it's for more than one movie.

[tdalton]

They could have done away with the two film arc while still leaving themselves the opportunity to bring SPECTRE back for another film (or more).  Given how poorly received Logan's script seems to have been, it's probably wise that they jettisoned the two film arc, but that doesn't necessarily mean that SPECTRE will feature just the one time in SPECTRE.  They'll almost surely be back in some capacity for Bond 25.

[Guy Haines]

I agree with tdalton.  Having gone to the time and trouble of gaining the rights to SPECTRE & Blofeld, why deal with it all in one film? I think both will be around in Bond 25, and who knows?, maybe beyond that film.

 

And I think there's something in the suggestion on one of our threads that just as the films from CR 2006 until now have been about how Bond became Bond, so in Spectre it could be how SPECTRE became SPECTRE. It was never explained in the films of the 1960s - SPECTRE was just "there". The reboot series allows an explanation, although I doubt very much it will be like the one Ian Fleming wrote about in the novel Thunderball.

[Blofeld's Cat]

We clearly have a case of Schroedinger's Blofeld here, no doubt...

DAMN!

 

I spilled my coffee over the keyboard when I read this. 

[RMc2]

He's batman?

 

Hahaha! Now hearing Bale's "I'm Batman" at the end of the SPECTRE teaser

 

 

He's batman?

Robin.

 

 

To Bond's Batman?

 

Actually I was thinking more of the OTHER twist reveal. Which come to think of it, Nolan took from TWINE...

[Lounge Lizard]

Maybe I'm lagging behind, but has anybody seen the Today Exclusive report from March 30th? Don't know if I'm allowed to youtube-link it here, but Waltz says: "He [Oberhauser] may not be who he thinks he is, well, that's true for all of us, isn't it? No, he's a businessman, and he's a visionary, someone who's supplying his whole existence to  make the world a safer and a better place."

Edited by Lounge Lizard, 13 April 2015 - 03:23 PM.

[glidrose]

Waltz says: "He [Oberhauser] may not be who he thinks he is,"

To have Waltz deny that he is Blofeld publicly and then reveal that as a lie would be even more annoying.

But what if he honestly doesn't know he's playing Blofeld and so therefore makes those comments in good faith?

Hey, wait - if Anthony Dawson can appear in DR.NO and voice Blofeld in FRWL and TB...

Eric Pohlmann did the voice.

[AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän]

I think the organization is brought back for a long term. SPECTRE will probably survive to post-Craig era as a recurring threat with or without Blofeld himself.

[MadeleineSwann]

I think the producers are very aware that bringing SPECTRE back for one film is pointless idea, especially after all the trouble they've gone through over the years to get it back.

[Guy Haines]

Christoph Waltz's description of Oberhauser - "someone who's supplying his whole existence to make the world a safer and a better place" - sounds similar to the ambitions, on the surface, of the Count de Bleauchamp in OHMSS. Even if the character doesn't turn out to be ESB in disguise, the face presented to the outside world appears to be of the kind Blofeld tried from his Piz Gloria laboratory.

[Lounge Lizard]

Christoph Waltz's description of Oberhauser - "someone who's supplying his whole existence to make the world a safer and a better place" - sounds similar to the ambitions, on the surface, of the Count de Bleauchamp in OHMSS. Even if the character doesn't turn out to be ESB in disguise, the face presented to the outside world appears to be of the kind Blofeld tried from his Piz Gloria laboratory.

 

True. And it ties in with the way Blofeld justifies his past crimes in the chapter 'Blood and Thunder' of Fleming's YOLT, in which old ESB almost makes them sound like humanitarian efforts.

 

But it could also fit in with a reinvention of SPECTRE in the League of Shadows mould, as was mentioned earlier in this or another discussion, with Blo-berhauser tempting Bond to come over to his side, since they 'share the same goals anyway'.

Edited by Lounge Lizard, 13 April 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Guy Haines]

Good points, Lounge Lizard. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, at some point in this new film, or the next, there wasn't a "Blood and Thunder" moment in which our villain, whoever he is, tries to justify his organisations' (plural) past crimes. Bankrolling terror and manipulating the stock markets? Merely pointing out to the world how fragile it is in general and the economic system is in particular. Similarly the water control plot in QoS - a timely reminder to the world of the dangers of our eco-system falling into the wrong hands. And the events in SF? If they are in any way linked to SPECTRE, a plot to remind the world of the dangers of the internet, which got a little out of hand because of the instigator's personal issues.

 

Of course, missing from these three is the "tribute" element - that the world should have paid our villain what he asked for pointing these things out, as Blofeld I think made out in that YOLT chapter. But otherwise, a similar monologue could be created for such a scene in Spectre or Bond 25, and those familiar with the book You Only Live Twice would spot it straight away.

[AMC Hornet]

Suppose it had been announced in December that Waltz is playing Blofeld.

 

Would we all be happy now?

 

Or would we be disappointed?

 

Or would we be assuming that it was a blind, to distract us from the identity of the real ESB?

 

Perhaps Waltz's denials are just that?

 

It's keeping those few of us who care guessing, anyway.

 

I can wait until November, when I go into the theatre with no expectations. That way I won't be disappointed that the film 'went wrong' for not meeting my predictions, or was 'too predictable' because it did.

 

I may have to stay away from this thread too, to avoid pissing everyone else off with my lack of concern.

[rubixcub]

With that quotation, for the first time, the Oberhauser/Blofeld duality makes sense.  How can he be both people at the same time?  My speculative theory:

Spoiler

he's adopted.  ESB was an orphan, like Bond, who was adopted by Hannes Oberhauser & given his surname and the first name of Franz.  He emerged as a disappointment to his adoptive father, who came to prefer JB to him.  Franz traces his lineage and reclaims his birth name on his way to SPECTRE chiefdom.

 

ETA: or he's just a bad guy who thinks of himself as a good guy.

 

Trying to find the clip online but not succeeding.  Lounge Lizard, can you share the YT link?

 

Dave

Edited by rubixcub, 16 April 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[Lounge Lizard]

Here it is:

 

Waltz's comment is around 2 m 15 s.

[Emrayfo]

My daddy loved you James more than he loved me, therefore I established a massive crime syndicate to avenge myself on you on the off-chance you ended up working for the British government and not, say, a binman.

Before you ask, I haven't seen the script.

 

Yes, exactly. Well pilloried, Jim. And haven't we already seen such a connection done before, and suitably so, in a spoof? I'm thinking of 'Austin Powers: Goldmember'.

 

I'm sure Mendes and John Logan will be more sophisticated than that. At least I hope so.

 

I generally prefer it when Bond is one of many operatives of HM Government - a very good one and a favourite of M, yes - but not a famous/infamous figure to his erstwhile opponents in his own right.

[Emrayfo]

I don't really see a scenario where White is Blofeld. I think what is more likely is that after the failure of Quantum, White is on the out and is being hunted by the newer SPECTRE. Mr. White is the unlikely source who sends the cryptic message to MI6. He probably has his own reasons for doing so, but I think Mr. White needs protection from SPECTRE and the only one he can turn to is Bond.

 

This is good.

[JCRendle]

 

I don't really see a scenario where White is Blofeld. I think what is more likely is that after the failure of Quantum, White is on the out and is being hunted by the newer SPECTRE. Mr. White is the unlikely source who sends the cryptic message to MI6. He probably has his own reasons for doing so, but I think Mr. White needs protection from SPECTRE and the only one he can turn to is Bond.

 

This is good.

 

But in the Teaser, he thought Bond was there to kill him and he thought MI6 were still tracking him - doesn't sound like he called for their help.

[SecretAgentFan]

Wow, Blofeld is looking a lot like... 

 

http://www.impawards...manglehorn.html

[Odd Jobbies]

Wow, Blofeld is looking a lot like... 

 

http://www.impawards...manglehorn.html

Ernst 'Hoo-Ha' Blofeld

[rubixcub]

I think we're pretty much all in agreement that Franz Oberhauser is Blofeld.  The question is how he can be both at the same time.  I have three theoretical scenarios:

 

1) Blofeld is an alias created by and for Franz Oberhauser (the way Tiago Rodriguez became Raoul Silva).

 

2) ESB killed Franz (and probably Hannes) Oberhauser & stole Franz's identity.

 

3) Franz Oberhauser, like James Bond, was adopted by Hannes Oberhauser, whether or not he knows it at the time JB comes into his life (most likely not).  His comes to find out the truth of his lineage, and that his birth name is Ernst Stavro Blofeld, a name which he reverts to as an adult.

 

Scenarios 1 & 3 both tie into the same central concept, which would go something like this:

- For a time, James & Franz were adoptive 'siblings'.  While Franz perhaps became unprincipled, a disappointment, even dangerous as he grew up, James was a model son, or at least presented Hannes with a fresh start as a father (perhaps to avoid making the same mistakes he made with his first son).  Franz develops a jealous hatred of Bond over the affection of his father (perhaps becoming a tormenter figure to JB -- who's to say they would've been friends?), and eventually murders his father (though not specifically over Bond).

 

Scenario 2 reinforces the tie-in to the original story, with Blofeld standing in for Maj. Dexter-Smythe -- perhaps he even killed the Oberhausers & staged it to look like a climbing accident, reminiscent of the way JB's own parents died.  Given how they've tried to plumb Bond's character and make his adventures more meaningful, though, I doubt that they'd sacrifice the "personal" angle by having the villain be a total stranger and impostor.  It's more than possible but makes for a simpler dynamic between the two characters if they have no history.

 

Scenario 1 would be a waste of the newly regained rights to use the character of ESB, so I feel that's the least likely.

 

Scenario 3 DOES satisfy how Waltz could be playing both characters.  An orphan (infant?) named Ernst Stavro Blofeld was adopted by Hannes Oberhauser, and given his surname & the new first name of Franz.  Taking it further, Franz grew up to be a reprobate and disappointment.  Adopting James Bond gave Hannes a second chance as a parent, which earned the ire of his elder son, who was big enough and wicked enough to torment -- and perhaps try to kill -- his new, "adopted little brother".  The antagonist angle may or may not play into it, although if they are going for the "bad brother" vibe (which they've frankly gotten from several recent villains, with various degrees of success), this would fit.  The "friends turned enemies" angle is also possible, though it's been used before, even within this same series (GE).

 

Which scenario would you find most likely, if any?

 

Dave

Edited by rubixcub, 05 June 2015 - 12:26 AM.