513 replies to this topic

[deth]

New Line Cinema announced today that they will be rebooting the "Shaft" franchise. Hopefully Idris Elba is cast so those insisting he "must" replace Daniel as Bond can be silenced.

 

 

Where's all the people clamoring for a white actor to play Shaft? You see, there's so many talented white actors...

[Hockey Mask]

Elba is just four years younger than Craig. Don't see the point.

[tdalton]

Elba is just four years younger than Craig. Don't see the point.

 

Exactly.  EON would just have to recast again after just one film, two at the most.

[Vauxhall]

Doubtless mindful of the Roger Moore controversy, when asked yesterday about Idris Elba, Michael Wilson said "I think he'd make a great Bond".

Having said that, he's too old and Craig is said to be on an "open ended" contract, which is great news for all of us.

[Harmsway]

Still, Craig is getting on in years. I can *just* see him stretching on to six films, but certainly no more than that.

[x007AceOfSpades]

I'd be shocked if he made it to six.

[Vauxhall]

Still, Craig is getting on in years. I can *just* see him stretching on to six films, but certainly no more than that.

I can certainly see the answer to that question hinging substantially on whether SPECTRE is a critical success. If they can keep major cast members for BOND 25, I'd guess Craig will cling on for another round or two.

(Not the most illuminating insight for a 10,000th post. Goodness, that's a lot of typing away.)

[Harmsway]

I'd be shocked if he made it to six.

He'd be pushing things at that point.

 

I imagine Spectre will be an enormous success (perhaps even doing better than Skyfall), so Craig will almost certainly be courted back for Bond 25, which would likely hit screens in 2018.That would put him at 50. If he did Bond 26 in 2021, he'd be 53 when he departs the role. That's not quite up to "old man Rog" standards, but it's still pretty old (that's Connery in Never Say Never Again territory).

 

That said, with the character-centric focus of Craig's era, along with the fact that Craig's films have already acknowledged Bond's age, maybe they'd do something interesting with a Bond who hit the automatic retirement age for Double-Os.

[Skylla]

 

I'd be shocked if he made it to six.

He'd be pushing things at that point.

 

I imagine Spectre will be an enormous success (perhaps even doing better than Skyfall), so Craig will almost certainly be courted back for Bond 25, which would likely hit screens in 2018.That would put him at 50. If he did Bond 26 in 2021, he'd be 53 when he departs the role. That's not quite up to "old man Rog" standards, but it's still pretty old (that's Connery in Never Say Never Again territory).

 

That said, with the character-centric focus of Craig's era, along with the fact that Craig's films have already acknowledged Bond's age, maybe they'd do something interesting with a Bond who hit the automatic retirement age for Double-Os.

 

Which he already has hit now. So much for realism.....everything more than Bond 25 and we are back to geriatric Bond 

[Harmsway]

Well, Fleming's mandatory retirement date might not be the same as in the movie universe. But we'll have to see how the films handle it.

[Skylla]

Well, Fleming's mandatory retirement date might not be the same as in the movie universe. But we'll have to see how the films handle it.

Yeah, we´ll see. It´s not that I have a problem with an older film Bond, but they kicked Brosnan out because he was too old and than rebooted with the "much too old for a rookie" guy. So the only thing I want in the next ten years is just one perfect film (gritty as FRWL, cool as GF and with the scale of TB) with any guy 6 feet tall and between 30 and 40 Babs can get her claws in... 

[Dustin]

I'd be shocked if he made it to six.

He'd be pushing things at that point.

I imagine Spectre will be an enormous success (perhaps even doing better than Skyfall), so Craig will almost certainly be courted back for Bond 25, which would likely hit screens in 2018.That would put him at 50. If he did Bond 26 in 2021, he'd be 53 when he departs the role. That's not quite up to "old man Rog" standards, but it's still pretty old (that's Connery in Never Say Never Again territory).

That said, with the character-centric focus of Craig's era, along with the fact that Craig's films have already acknowledged Bond's age, maybe they'd do something interesting with a Bond who hit the automatic retirement age for Double-Os.

Which he already has hit now. So much for realism.....everything more than Bond 25 and we are back to geriatric Bond

In all fairness it must be said that Fleming, in setting the mandatory retirement age at 45, was
a ) writing in a different age when men and women in general tended to lose their physical prowess sooner and probably also to a greater degree and
b ) took a mode de vivre of severe indulgence for granted, a habit that was bound to damage any person's health soon enough.

Today, with the right kind of balance between regular sports and rest and recreation, with a reasonably healthy lifestyle that avoids self-abuse and neglect, it is possible to maintain a high level of physical capability and efficiency. I am pushing fifty myself, was a former marathon runner and used to do between 30 and 50 miles (in marathon preparation) each week for decades. Age does slow down as well as wear you out, that much is true for anybody and you can't cheat your way around that fact. But a well-trained and maintained agent of, say 55 would be able to beat many younger competitors if they are not trained just as well and dedicate the same amount of time and passion to honing their skills and abilities.

That said, I'd argue the 45 retirement age for 00s isn't meant as an unbreakable barrier to keep chubby agents out of the 00-section. The way Fleming describes it it seems to me to be more a kind of finish line, a goal to set your sights on when you run the risk of burning out. A natural limit that, once it's reached, it's understood you did your duty, carried your share of the dangers and can now relax at a comfortable desk job without having to fear M's voice on the red phone. I could well see Bond working 00-duty beyond that age, provided his motivation remains strong enough.

[JCRendle]

I love the fact that whilst some mention Idris Elba shouldn't be Bond because "Bond is white", there is a lot of support for Michae Fassbender, a German.

It doesn't matter whether the actor is white, even if he isn't from the British Isles?!

People would rather Bond was played by a white German national, rather than a black British national?

[Skylla]

I love the fact that whilst some mention Idris Elba shouldn't be Bond because "Bond is white", there is a lot of support for Michae Fassbender, a German.

It doesn't matter whether the actor is white, even if he isn't from the British Isles?!

People would rather Bond was played by a white German national, rather than a black British national?

Well, Elbas father is from Sierra Leone and his mother from Ghana. Fassbenders father is from Germany and his mother from Ireland. Thanks to the fact that they are too old and way too old we don´t have to think about it anymore....

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

My honest opinion is that I'd probably still be a Bond fan if Colin Salmon had been cast instead of Craig, even though that was probably never a real possibility. As far as Elba goes, my problem is that he comes off as too big, bulky to be Bond. I know that sounds funny, it would be like saying Jai Courtney or Vinnie Jones would make a fantastic Bond. My honest opinion, let Craig do one or two more, then keeping things in continuity bring in Elba but not as James Bond 007, but as 008. Now that would be interesting. Then at the next reboot if they really want a Black 007 perhaps it's someone we've yet to hear about. At this point I just want to see Craig have a nice solid run of films before we move onto Bond 7. This is just my personal views on all of this.

[Skylla]

Yes, good idea for Elba. Something in style of the PTS from GE. Or he could be a real badass villain like Goldfinger, Largo or Sanchez. I find him much more intimitating than Bautista. Idris in Luther-mode would be a blast for the future 

[YOLT]

We still have another 50 years for a black Bond. The demographics of the western world has to diversify more. 

 

But time will come...

[Admiral Messervey]

I'll say this: We'd sooner get a Black M or Q (or even Tanner) before we ever get a Black Bond (and won't regardless of the nexr 50 years)

Edited by Admiral Messervey, 02 April 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Gothamite]

Bond has been 6'2", 5'11", Fair, dark, blue-eyed, brown-eyed, grey-green-eyed, Scottish, Australian, Irish, Welsh...but he's always been caucasian and British (thank God John Gavin and James Brolin didn't make it!). Hugh Jackman and Sam Neill would have done quite well, I think.

 

As a native of Navan, from the Republic of Ireland, Pierce Brosnan is not British. I'm from Dublin and I'm certainly not British.

 

I honestly don't mind if they cast a black person to play James Bond or Batman or Superman or Spider-Man or whatever, as long as the actor is so good that they occupy the character in a way that many Caucasian actors have occupied characters they don't resemble.

 

The only problem is that Bond is supposed to be something of a bull-headed Conservative (he's a huge racist numerous times in the books), but plenty of the films have already ignored those elements and others to great success.

 

My main problem with the irritating Elba rumour is that he is going to be far too old to take over from Craig when the time comes and for God's sake, why is everyone in such a hurry to oust Daniel Craig anyway? For my money he's the best of the lot and has at least two more in him.

Edited by Gothamite, 02 April 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Call Billy Bob]

Look no further than Yoda for the solution to this conundrum: "He is too old! Yes, too old to begin the training."

[Gothamite]

 

This has been a thread about whether a person from a particular racial background could be James Bond, but if you think about it we've ranged beyond that into age, nationality and social background - at least I've touched on class with the "can Connery really be Bond?" question from way back in 1961-62.

 

Thinking about it, with the possible exception of David Niven, none of the people who have played 007 on screen reflected him in terms of social class and/or nationality. Connery - Scottish certainly, but definitely not public school. Lazenby - Australian. Moore - son of a policeman, not usually the background of an upper bracket public school pupil. Dalton - Welsh born, Derbyshire raised, attended grammar school in Belper. Brosnan - proud son of Ireland. Craig - son of a publican and a teacher, from Liverpool.

 

None of the above were Eton/Fettes or similar in background. And it didn't matter. I dare say then that a Bond of a different nationality or racial background wouldn't matter either - provided that person could act, was suitable for the part and could play Bond convincingly. Race, social background, nationality, shouldn't be a consideration - the important point is whether the actor auditioning for the role can play the role.

 

Even age wasn't a consideration when Roger Moore was cast - Sean Connery stood down for a brand new Bond three years older than he was! And going back to social class the only contemporary Bond actor who comes close to Bond's school background is Toby Stephens, who played him on Radio 4 - and I'm sure he was cast only because he can act and could play Bond convincingly - and in the end, these are the only qualifications for the role that should matter.

 

This is, of course, the correct answer.

 

And as it goes, you can't underestimate the extent to which a Bond actor needs to be able to play Posh. The question isnt whether Idris Elba is a fine actor or a handsome figure of a man. Its whether an audience can accept him as a high born sophisticate who occasionally has to kill people. Same goes for Fassbender, Friend, Cavill or whoever else gets the part.

 

(PS, this is a genuine opinion, not the evr so slightly inebriated attempt at Merry Christmas agent provacateur activity I posted the other night)

 

 

This is the best answer I've read.

[Odd Jobbies]

I love this straight talking common sense quote from LALD's Yaphet Kotto:

"James Bond cannot be black," actor Yaphet Kotto told The Big Issue last week, whilst commenting on the perpetual rumour that Idris Elba could take over from Daniel Craig (even though he would be too old).

"Political correctness be damned, we have to stay with what is literally correct. James Bond was established by Ian Fleming as a white character and played by white actors. It’s silly. Play 003 or 006 but you cannot be 007."

He added: "A lot of people say black actors should be allowed to play everything. Don’t be ridiculous. If I say I want to play JFK I should be laughed out the room."

[Admiral Messervey]

 

I love this straight talking common sense quote from LALD's Yaphet Kotto:

"James Bond cannot be black," actor Yaphet Kotto told The Big Issue last week, whilst commenting on the perpetual rumour that Idris Elba could take over from Daniel Craig (even though he would be too old).

"Political correctness be damned, we have to stay with what is literally correct. James Bond was established by Ian Fleming as a white character and played by white actors. It’s silly. Play 003 or 006 but you cannot be 007."

He added: "A lot of people say black actors should be allowed to play everything. Don’t be ridiculous. If I say I want to play JFK I should be laughed out the room."

 

Well said, Mr. Kotto

[tdalton]

I can't really agree with Kotto's logic. Equating JFK to Bond doesn't really work. One is a real, historical figure, the other is a fictional character.

The fact of the matter is that, for the majority of the franchise's duration, Bond has been played by someone who doesn't match Fleming's description of the character, be it his physical appearance, his nationality, personality, or whatever else. As someone said earlier, Elba is English. That's not something that a lot of the other Bond actors can claim.

[glidrose]

"James Bond cannot be black," actor Yaphet Kotto told The Big Issue last week, whilst commenting on the perpetual rumour that Idris Elba could take over from Daniel Craig (even though he would be too old).[/size]

"Political correctness be damned, we have to stay with what is literally correct. James Bond was established by Ian Fleming as a white character and played by white actors. It’s silly. Play 003 or 006 but you cannot be 007."[/size]

He added: "A lot of people say black actors should be allowed to play everything. Don’t be ridiculous. If I say I want to play JFK I should be laughed out the room."[/size]

I just had a mental picture of Kotto as JFK in the fateful motorcade. LHO's bullets strike and Kotto/JFK immediately balloons up and floats up into the sky before exploding.

Thanks for the best laugh I've had all week!

Question: If Kotto did play JFK, would he do so in whiteface?

Sorry, I'm being very silly. Please ignore me.

[Gothamite]

I can't really agree with Kotto's logic. Equating JFK to Bond doesn't really work. One is a real, historical figure, the other is a fictional character.

The fact of the matter is that, for the majority of the franchise's duration, Bond has been played by someone who doesn't match Fleming's description of the character, be it his physical appearance, his nationality, personality, or whatever else. As someone said earlier, Elba is English. That's not something that a lot of the other Bond actors can claim.

 

Exactly. Saying that Bond *is* white is just as ridiculous as saying that Bond has to have black hair and blue eyes. We just happen to notice skin colour a little bit more. 

[tdalton]

 

I can't really agree with Kotto's logic. Equating JFK to Bond doesn't really work. One is a real, historical figure, the other is a fictional character.

The fact of the matter is that, for the majority of the franchise's duration, Bond has been played by someone who doesn't match Fleming's description of the character, be it his physical appearance, his nationality, personality, or whatever else. As someone said earlier, Elba is English. That's not something that a lot of the other Bond actors can claim.

 

Exactly. Saying that Bond *is* white is just as ridiculous as saying that Bond has to have black hair and blue eyes. We just happen to notice skin colour a little bit more. 

 

 

I think I'd be more inclined to agree with Kotto and the rest of those saying that Bond absolutely must remain a white character if EON had always cast actors in the role who consistently fit the description laid out by Fleming.  But, they've taken quite a few liberties with those over the years, which is fine, as it resulted in some very good actors playing the part.  

 

With that said, though, I don't think Elba would be right for the part.  I can't imagine him as Bond.  And, besides, all of this discussion about Elba is really a moot point.  The man will be very close to 50 years old when the first opportunity for him to fill the role would come up.  It's just not going to happen.  

[graric]

 

 

I can't really agree with Kotto's logic. Equating JFK to Bond doesn't really work. One is a real, historical figure, the other is a fictional character.

The fact of the matter is that, for the majority of the franchise's duration, Bond has been played by someone who doesn't match Fleming's description of the character, be it his physical appearance, his nationality, personality, or whatever else. As someone said earlier, Elba is English. That's not something that a lot of the other Bond actors can claim.

 

Exactly. Saying that Bond *is* white is just as ridiculous as saying that Bond has to have black hair and blue eyes. We just happen to notice skin colour a little bit more. 

 

 

I think I'd be more inclined to agree with Kotto and the rest of those saying that Bond absolutely must remain a white character if EON had always cast actors in the role who consistently fit the description laid out by Fleming.  But, they've taken quite a few liberties with those over the years, which is fine, as it resulted in some very good actors playing the part.  

 

With that said, though, I don't think Elba would be right for the part.  I can't imagine him as Bond.  And, besides, all of this discussion about Elba is really a moot point.  The man will be very close to 50 years old when the first opportunity for him to fill the role would come up.  It's just not going to happen.  

 

I'd also be more inclined to take the claims Bond must remain true to Fleming (and white) more seriously, if there was more of an outcry about having a black Felix, and a black Moneypenny...because if the important part of the Bond films is being true to Fleming I think it is about time we had a straw-haired Texan play Felix!

(Instead the claims seem to be based entirely on Bond the character, and primarily on skin-colour...never mind the other shifts in appearance or personality that have occured.)

[Dustin]

If Ratoff and Semple jr had had their way Bond would have been a woman from the go (see this Variety article: http://variety.com/2...rth-1118053316/). It wouldn't have been the Bond of the books, but if you just imagine their early Casino Royale project had taken off and been a box office hit (with supposedly Susan Hayward) there's no reason why the series couldn't have continued down that path. Just goes to show with adaptations all bets are off and anything can happen when you find somebody in the right position to back your ideas.

[Shakhtar]

Couldn't agree more with Kotto. His words covers it all. Nothing more to speak about for me.